The final vote on nut.flame

[j...@alice.uucp]

Since I don't have any interest in letting this drag on forever,
I'll summarize the mail I've gotten:

Delete net.flame: 93
Move net.flame to issues.flame, move politics, abortion, religion,
etc likewise, and then delete all of issues <I think this is sneaky
and deceptive, ed>: 1
Keep net.flame (polite): 8
Keep net.flame, you <expletive bozo>:3

So I guess the vote is roughly 93:11, with one abstention. I think that's
a pretty strong indication of the desires of the people who have
the necessary interest to write back.

The overwhealming concensus of those who want to delete the newsgroup
is that removing it makes a statement that flaming is NO LONGER
OK. Anywhere.

Those against removal have two concerns, (those who explained
their concern, at least) the first being "but where will the
flamers post then?", and the second being "but this is the only
place we hear about net.news.groups". The second, while
true (I'll assume that) is quite odd, and represents
a very odd choice of newsgroups to have on a machine (or forwarded
through a machine, for that matter...).

Nutnoise administrators: I am NOT a news administrator, even though I've
been here for ?4? <or something long like that> years. Hence, I can't
remove the group. Would somebody like to do so?

*********************
Nutnoise policy on flaming:
When the net was created, the volume of postings was such that
a few "noise" postings didn't matter. Now that it costs several million
dollars (spread out, yes, but still...) to keep this mess going, I
think it's time to make it clear that flaming, in more or less any
form, is not appropriate.

Among other things, many people do not realize that the net
is a volunteer service that they are OBLIGATED to not abuse. I recently
posted an article to that effect, and sent a copy to the cbosgd!mark
for net.announce, since I thought it was time that the point was made
that the net MUST NOT BE ABUSED. This note was rejected as inappropriate,
hence it will not appear in net.announce.

I propose that, since my article was not appropriate,
it is encumbent on those who want to shut off newsgroups to post,
in net.announce, and a lot of other places, a document like
nettiquette, but more pointed toward the idea that the net is a
volunteer service. Since I have been pointedly told
that my writing is not appropriate, someone else will have to
write the article for net.announce.

Given the mail I've gotten, I don't know why ANYONE would volunteer.
I certainly wouldn't volunteer to run anything to do with the net,
and I doubt if I'd agree to pay for it.
--
EVEN NUT.FLAME HAS IT'S LIMITS!
"Sunset and evening star, and one clear call for netnews..."

[Greg Skinner]

Before anyone even thinks of rmgrouping net.flame, let me caution you to
wait for a representative vote from news administrators who indicate, BY
MAIL, that they are unwilling to pass the group. I applaud your
efforts, jj, but remember, this is just the popular vote, and does not
reflect the net as a whole.

Lest we see a barrage of postings to net.news.group complaining about
the rmgrouping of net.flame, which will raise the volume of news to
heights undreamed (since net.flame won't exist, they'll do all their
flaming in net.news.group), I caution all of you to wait and see what
site admins have to say.

jj, would you be willing to indicate of those who voted who were site
admins? did they supply that data? if not, i will take a vote from
site admins (i'll accept your word that you're a site admin -- you don't
have to mail your article from 'root' or 'news' or 'usenet' if you don't
want to) on whether or not you are no longer willing to pass net.flame,
and you want to see it rmgrouped.

Again, I urge you, wait until we hear from other site admins. I don't
want to see another flame war kicked off like the one over net.internat
and net.bizarre.
--
It's like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder how I keep from goin' under.

Greg Skinner (gregbo)
{decvax!genrad, allegra, ihnp4}!mit-eddie!gds
g...@mit-eddie.mit.edu

[j...@alice.uucp]

Gregbo- I am NOT a system adminstrator, and I've said as much
three times. I AM advising the backbone folks of the vote, at
their request, and since I am not a system administrator, I
will HAVE to wait for them to take action.

Before you make WARNING's and such, you should rtfm, I think.

--
TEDDY BEARS ARE SHY, SAVE A POWDERMILK BISCUIT FOR THEM.
"When Eddie said he didn't like his Teddy, you knew he was a no good kid!"

(ihnp4;allegra;research)!alice!jj