the food groups vs. the chinese

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Philip Kos

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Jan 22, 1986, 10:07:42 PM1/22/86
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Several months ago there was a long discussion about the lack of
dairy products in Chinese cuisine, with lots of speculation about
lactose intolerance, etc. Well, it put a bee in my bonnet, and
I'm just now getting around to posting the questions raised in my
mind.

I was always told as a child that if you did not eat a combination
of foods from the "four groups" (meats, grains, veggies, and dairy
products) that you just wouldn't be healthy. Well, if the oriental
races don't eat any dairy products to speak of, how can they stay
healthy? They must be getting the calcium and other nutrients from
somewhere; where is it?

Along the same lines, is the (apparently) bogus importance of dairy
products just a bunch of simplistic propaganda promulgated by the
dairy industry?

"Oh, drat these computers,
Phil Kos they're so naughty and so
The Johns Hopkins Hospital complex! I could pinch
Baltimore, MD them."
- A. Martian

Col. G. L. Sicherman

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Jan 28, 1986, 1:06:17 PM1/28/86
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> I was always told as a child that if you did not eat a combination
> of foods from the "four groups" (meats, grains, veggies, and dairy
> products) that you just wouldn't be healthy. Well, if the oriental
> races don't eat any dairy products to speak of, how can they stay
> healthy? ...

> Along the same lines, is the (apparently) bogus importance of dairy
> products just a bunch of simplistic propaganda promulgated by the
> dairy industry?

The concept of the "four groups" is indeed simplistic propaganda.
It's promoted by the "legitimate" food companies (and some of the
snack companies, notably Hershey's) and administered by schoolteachers
who find it easy to teach. I remember when the schools taught not 4
but 7 "basic food groups." The old classification was more accurate,
but it probably proved too great a strain on the public memory.

The most reliable rule is still to eat what appeals to you. The
easiest rule is still to eat what's at hand.


"You saved my life, Captain Buffalo! Have a CIGAR!"
--
Col. G. L. Sicherman
UU: ...{rocksvax|decvax}!sunybcs!colonel
CS: colonel@buffalo-cs
BI: csdsicher@sunyabva

Craig Werner

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Jan 30, 1986, 12:32:47 PM1/30/86
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> The concept of the "four groups" is indeed simplistic propaganda.

No, it has been well established that everyone should and probably
does eat foods daily from the four basic food groups, which are:
1. Caffeine
2. Chocolate
3. Carbohydrates
and 4. Preservatives

:-) :-)
--

Craig Werner
!philabs!aecom!werner
"Well that's my story, not that it matters..."

Phil Gustafson

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Jan 31, 1986, 1:59:26 PM1/31/86
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In article <22...@aecom.UUCP> wer...@aecom.UUCP (Craig Werner) writes:
>> The concept of the "four groups" is indeed simplistic propaganda.
>
> No, it has been well established that everyone should and probably
>does eat foods daily from the four basic food groups, which are:
> 1. Caffeine
> 2. Chocolate
> 3. Carbohydrates
>and 4. Preservatives
>
>:-) :-)
Or, due to Richard Guindon:

1. junk
2. fast
3. frozen
4. spoiled

Trevor J. Smedley

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Feb 2, 1986, 5:11:06 PM2/2/86
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In article <27...@sunybcs.UUCP> col...@sunybcs.UUCP (Col. G. L. Sicherman) writes:
>
>The most reliable rule is still to eat what appeals to you.
>

I don't agree with this. I know of some chemists who could (and do) whip
up some absolutely delicious things with almost zero nutritional value.
When people lived in caves this worked, but not any more.

Trevor J. Smedley University of Waterloo

{decvax,allegra,ihnp4,clyde,utzoo}!watmum!tjsmedley

John Oswalt

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Feb 3, 1986, 8:29:55 PM2/3/86
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> The concept of the "four groups" is indeed simplistic propaganda.
> It's promoted by the "legitimate" food companies (and some of the
> snack companies, notably Hershey's) and administered by schoolteachers
> who find it easy to teach. I remember when the schools taught not 4
> but 7 "basic food groups." The old classification was more accurate,
> but it probably proved too great a strain on the public memory.
>
> The most reliable rule is still to eat what appeals to you. The
> easiest rule is still to eat what's at hand.
>
Here at Valid, we have what is known as the "four Engineering food
groups". We try to eat some of each every day:

1) Caffeine
2) Sugar
3) Salt
4) Grease

Note that by simply eating pizza and drinking Dr. Peppper you have
satisfied all four groups!

--
John Oswalt (..!{hplabs,amd,pyramid,ihnp4}!pesnta!valid!jao)

Paul Hahn

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Feb 3, 1986, 9:26:33 PM2/3/86
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>> 1. Caffeine
>> 2. Chocolate
>> 3. Carbohydrates
>>and 4. Preservatives

> 1. junk


> 2. fast
> 3. frozen
> 4. spoiled

As the student newspaper here had it, SAGA (Soviet Attempt
to Gag America, the campus food service from which I am
mercifully free this year) had its own FIVE food groups: sugar,
salt, starch, grease, and pimentos.
--pH
/*
* "I looked at my lunch tray and something looked back."
*/

Alan Tobey

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Feb 5, 1986, 3:02:02 PM2/5/86
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> Here at Valid, we have what is known as the "four Engineering food
> groups". We try to eat some of each every day:
>
> 1) Caffeine
> 2) Sugar
> 3) Salt
> 4) Grease
>
> Note that by simply eating pizza and drinking Dr. Peppper you have
> satisfied all four groups!
>
Here in the Bay Area, there's a slight variant: Nature's most nearly
perfect food is Irish Coffee, which supplies THESE four essential
food groups -- alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. EVERYBODY knows
that salt is bad for you :-)!

Terry Grevstad

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Feb 7, 1986, 7:36:20 PM2/7/86
to
wer...@aecom.UUCP (Craig Werner) says:
>> The concept of the "four groups" is indeed simplistic propaganda.
>
> No, it has been well established that everyone should and probably
>does eat foods daily from the four basic food groups, which are:
> 1. Caffeine
> 2. Chocolate
> 3. Carbohydrates
>and 4. Preservatives
>
>:-) :-)

Hum..... CCCP?
Any connection, I wonder? :-}

--
\"\t\f1A\h'+1m'\f4\(mo\h'+1m'\f1the\h'+1m'\f4\(es\t\f1\c
_______________________________________________________________________

Terry Grevstad
Network Research Corporation
ihnp4!nrcvax!terry
{sdcsvax,hplabs}!sdcrdcf!psivax!nrcvax!terry
ucbvax!calma!nrcvax!terry

Larry Lippman

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Feb 9, 1986, 10:10:42 AM2/9/86
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> >The most reliable rule is still to eat what appeals to you.
>
> I don't agree with this. I know of some chemists who could (and do) whip
> up some absolutely delicious things with almost zero nutritional value.
> When people lived in caves this worked, but not any more.

One of my favorite party tricks is to make a parody of a fast food
restaurant chocholate milk shake using a little Hershey's syrup, a LOT of
water, and some carrageenan or methyl cellulose. It looks like a McShake,
flows like a McShake, just about tastes like a McShake, and has virtually
no food value...

==> Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York <==
==> UUCP {decvax|dual|rocksanne|rocksvax|watmath}!sunybcs!kitty!larry <==
==> VOICE 716/741-9185 {rice|shell}!baylor!/ <==
==> FAX 716/741-9635 {G1, G2, G3 modes} duke!ethos!/ <==
==> seismo!/ <==
==> "Have you hugged your cat today?" ihnp4!/ <==

Col. G. L. Sicherman

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Feb 11, 1986, 10:33:28 AM2/11/86
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> > >The most reliable rule is still to eat what appeals to you.
> >
> > I don't agree with this. I know of some chemists who could (and do) whip
> > up some absolutely delicious things with almost zero nutritional value.
> > When people lived in caves this worked, but not any more.
>
> One of my favorite party tricks is to make a parody of a fast food
> restaurant chocolate milk shake using a little Hershey's syrup, a LOT of

> water, and some carrageenan or methyl cellulose. It looks like a McShake,
> flows like a McShake, just about tastes like a McShake, and has virtually
> no food value...

Parody? I think that's the genuine recipe, except that you should use
generic chocolate syrup--it cuts costs.

I'll bet Franey could tell it from the real thing, though.


"He can't be HURT
'Cause he's made of DIRT!
Mudman! Mud-Man! MUD-MAAAAAAN!"

ch...@utflis.uucp

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Feb 17, 1986, 2:17:27 PM2/17/86
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[Hello again, world!]

I just picked up a book from a public library: _Everything_You_Wanted
_to_Know_about_Nutrition_, by David Reuben, M.D. (author of _The_
Save-Your-Life_Diet). He pooh-poohed just about EVERYTHING in the food
industry. Regarding milk, he gave it a very low opinion. His claims:
calcium (and Vit. D) you can get from dozens of other foods, e.g.
turnip greens, whole wheat bread, peanuts, beans, olives etc. The
human body rejects 80% of all the calcium you eat to keep the blood
concentration low. Also, in the States milk makes a lot of money:
it's the only basic food which has a reverse price control, ie "there
is a minimum price for milk and it cannot be legally sold for less."
So, it's the dairy people who did all the pushing that made us believe
that milk is necessary for EVERYBODY.

Of course, I don't believe everything I read, but last Saturday there
was this supplement which came with the newspaper: a glossy, four-page,
full-colored ad on milk. The big letters which ran across two pages
read CALCIUM. Then it goes on to tell you just how good milk is in
supplying you with CALCIUM and VIT D. Finally, in small print at the
end, it sez "brought to you by the Dairy Farmers of Ontario". Hmm, I'm
beginning to have my doubts and I no longer feel guilty about not
having milk at least once every day....

ps I believe tofu is rather rich in calcium and eggs are rich in Vit. D,
so these nutrients are indeed present in the Chinese diet.
--
Henry Chai ( guest on suran@utcsri )
{watmath,ihnp4,allegra}!utcsri!utflis!chai chai%utflis@TORONTO

henning

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Feb 20, 1986, 10:10:33 AM2/20/86
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**** ****
From the keys of Steve Henning, AT&T Bell Labs, Reading, PA mhuxl!smh

> Regarding milk, he gave it a very low opinion. His claims:
> calcium (and Vit. D) you can get from dozens of other foods, e.g.
> turnip greens, whole wheat bread, peanuts, beans, olives etc.

Local papers have published several stories stating that spinach
and several other dark green 'greens' were counter productive for
calcium since they contain oxallic acid which inhibits calcium
assimilation. I also agree that milk is overrated, but it is a
hell of a lot better than tea, coffee, coke, diet soda, etc. Some
people should only consume skim milk, but milk is one of the most
complete foods. If I had to choose 2 foods, I would choose milk
and eggs. If I had to choose 10 foods, I wouldn't choose either one.

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