GNOME and tape drives
Matt McLeod
One of the machines on my desk is a P166 running Linux.
Red Hat 6.0, to be more precise, with the default desktop
setup (GNOME, Enlightenment, and so on).
This box has an NCR 53c810-based SCSI controller, and a pair
of tape drives (one Archive 6-tape DAT stacker, one
Exabyte thing) attached. The tape drives are a recent (that
is, today) addition - they've been moved there from a couple
of older workstations (since the new ones don't have SCSI...
Can I please shoot whoever decided to go for IDE in the Ultra
5? Or at least join the queue? Please?).
I've noticed that if I start up ufsdump on my workstation
(which has some unofficial backups on it, since the official
ones are handled by NyetWorker) to dump out /backups to both
of these drives (i.e., run ufsdump on the same stuff twice,
different destination), after a short while both the GNOME
desktop/panel and Enlightenment stop responding to mouse
clicks. I can still alt-tab between windows, and can still
enter stuff with the keyboard, and VMware keeps chugging along
(mouse working fine, both in the VM and in the VMware window).
The same (i.e., no mouse-clicks) goes for all gtk apps.
The "only" other activity on the machine is bladeenc encoding
some stuff.
And for added bonus points, on one occasion eth0 switched to
promiscuous mode, and all of a sudden I can't get at the
network...
Since much the same setup (faster CPU, more memory, no
IDE disks at all) will soon become my main work machine,
I'm a tad concerned about this...
Any ideas?
Matt
--
Divide By Cucumber Error. Please Reinstall Universe and Reboot
Ryan Tucker
Matt McLeod <m...@labyrinth.net.au> spewed:
>I've noticed that if I start up ufsdump on my workstation
>(which has some unofficial backups on it, since the official
>ones are handled by NyetWorker) to dump out /backups to both
>of these drives (i.e., run ufsdump on the same stuff twice,
>different destination), after a short while both the GNOME
>desktop/panel and Enlightenment stop responding to mouse
>clicks. I can still alt-tab between windows, and can still
>enter stuff with the keyboard, and VMware keeps chugging along
>(mouse working fine, both in the VM and in the VMware window).
Hrrrrm... ordinarily I'd say this sounds bizarre enough to be some sort
of IRQ or other resource conflict. Can you spew the contents of
/proc/interrupts and /proc/ioports?
Of course, that doesn't explain why it works elsewhere, which is kinda
starting to point towards software. Have you installed all of the
updates (http://support.redhat.com/, under product
fixes/updates/errata), paying special attention to anything X-related?
Also, if worse comes to worse, there's always The Unofficial Gnome
Updates. ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/RHAD/redhat-6.0/ ... these have
done wonders for my sanity. I had gnome running for 5 days straight on
my work PC without any crashes, core files, or severe memory leaks. It
woulda kept going, except I had to start mucking with the internal
composition of the machine again. -rt
--
Ryan Tucker <rtuck...@ttgcitn.com> http://www.ttgcitn.com/~rtucker/
President, TTGCITN Communications Box 92425, Rochester NY 14692-0425
Please keep public threads public -- e-mail responses will be ignored.
Matt McLeod
>In <slrn7optk...@bannor.netizen.com.au>,
>Matt McLeod <m...@labyrinth.net.au> spewed:
>>I've noticed that if I start up ufsdump on my workstation
>>(which has some unofficial backups on it, since the official
>>ones are handled by NyetWorker) to dump out /backups to both
>>of these drives (i.e., run ufsdump on the same stuff twice,
>>different destination), after a short while both the GNOME
>>desktop/panel and Enlightenment stop responding to mouse
>>clicks. I can still alt-tab between windows, and can still
>>enter stuff with the keyboard, and VMware keeps chugging along
>>(mouse working fine, both in the VM and in the VMware window).
>
>Hrrrrm... ordinarily I'd say this sounds bizarre enough to be some sort
>of IRQ or other resource conflict. Can you spew the contents of
>/proc/interrupts and /proc/ioports?
Will do tomorrow, and post the results when I get home (alleged
news-server at work is seriously broken, and not just the .au
one).
>Of course, that doesn't explain why it works elsewhere, which is kinda
>starting to point towards software. Have you installed all of the
>updates (http://support.redhat.com/, under product
>fixes/updates/errata), paying special attention to anything X-related?
Not as yet. Time, as always, is an issue. Seemed weird enough
(only affecting gtk-based stuff, and E [if that isn't gtk-based -
Linux over the last six months has been more of an "oh, something
to worry about later" thing, so I haven't really been paying all
that much attention]) that I figure an X server problem is unlikely.
I'll whack those on tomorrow.
>Also, if worse comes to worse, there's always The Unofficial Gnome
>Updates. ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/RHAD/redhat-6.0/ ... these have
>done wonders for my sanity. I had gnome running for 5 days straight on
>my work PC without any crashes, core files, or severe memory leaks. It
>woulda kept going, except I had to start mucking with the internal
>composition of the machine again. -rt
Until today, that machine (and that login) had been up for about
three weeks or so, with nothing nasty going on. But then it mostly
just gets used for running Opera and a few server front-ends
(Sybase, FW-1) in a VMware session, so it hasn't exactly been
hammered.
Jim Kingdon
> Updates. ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/RHAD/redhat-6.0/ ... these have
> done wonders for my sanity.
Highly recommended (I think the same stuff might be in Rawhide as
well).
The Red Hat support people don't even want to talk to you about GNOME
if you are using Red Hat Linux 6.0 without those updates (or something
like that, I could be getting the subtleties wrong but I think this is
more or less a quasi-official position - Ryan would know better than I
because he is in support and my group doesn't do GNOME :-)).
Hopefully future releases will ship with a GNOME which works better.
Ryan Tucker
Matt McLeod <m...@labyrinth.net.au> spewed:
>>Hrrrrm... ordinarily I'd say this sounds bizarre enough to be some sort
>>of IRQ or other resource conflict. Can you spew the contents of
>>/proc/interrupts and /proc/ioports?
>
>Will do tomorrow, and post the results when I get home (alleged
>news-server at work is seriously broken, and not just the .au
>one).
Cool.
>>Of course, that doesn't explain why it works elsewhere, which is kinda
>>starting to point towards software. Have you installed all of the
>>updates (http://support.redhat.com/, under product
>>fixes/updates/errata), paying special attention to anything X-related?
>
>Not as yet. Time, as always, is an issue. Seemed weird enough
>(only affecting gtk-based stuff, and E [if that isn't gtk-based -
> Linux over the last six months has been more of an "oh, something
> to worry about later" thing, so I haven't really been paying all
> that much attention]) that I figure an X server problem is unlikely.
>
>I'll whack those on tomorrow.
Groovy. It does seem odd, and I don't know any problems like that fixed
in the new stuff, but hey, it can't hurt... worst it can do is increase
your system security slightly.
>>Also, if worse comes to worse, there's always The Unofficial Gnome
>>Updates. ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/RHAD/redhat-6.0/ ... these have
>>done wonders for my sanity. I had gnome running for 5 days straight on
>>my work PC without any crashes, core files, or severe memory leaks. It
>>woulda kept going, except I had to start mucking with the internal
>>composition of the machine again. -rt
>
>Until today, that machine (and that login) had been up for about
>three weeks or so, with nothing nasty going on. But then it mostly
>just gets used for running Opera and a few server front-ends
>(Sybase, FW-1) in a VMware session, so it hasn't exactly been
>hammered.
Mine does get hammered... I don't have VMware running, which means
everything has to run talking to gnome itself ;-) -rt
Ryan Tucker
Jim Kingdon <kin...@panix6.panix.com> spewed:
>The Red Hat support people don't even want to talk to you about GNOME
>if you are using Red Hat Linux 6.0 without those updates (or something
>like that, I could be getting the subtleties wrong but I think this is
>more or less a quasi-official position - Ryan would know better than I
>because he is in support and my group doesn't do GNOME :-)).
>Hopefully future releases will ship with a GNOME which works better.
Haven't heard much of anything official, but I've been recommending it.
It's the best thing since the netscape update. -rt
Matt McLeod
>Matt McLeod <m...@labyrinth.net.au> spewed:
>>>Hrrrrm... ordinarily I'd say this sounds bizarre enough to be some sort
>>>of IRQ or other resource conflict. Can you spew the contents of
>>>/proc/interrupts and /proc/ioports?
>>
>>Will do tomorrow, and post the results when I get home (alleged
>>news-server at work is seriously broken, and not just the .au
>>one).
>
>Cool.
[epamclo@assm04 ~]$ cat /proc/interrupts
CPU0
0: 8760016 XT-PIC timer
1: 2976 XT-PIC keyboard
2: 0 XT-PIC cascade
4: 32905 XT-PIC serial
6: 54 XT-PIC floppy
8: 556313 XT-PIC rtc
9: 248755 XT-PIC ncr53c8xx
10: 11041230 XT-PIC eth0
13: 1 XT-PIC fpu
14: 2237018 XT-PIC ide0
NMI: 0
[epamclo@assm04 ~]$ cat /proc/ioports
0000-001f : dma1
0020-003f : pic1
0040-005f : timer
0060-006f : keyboard
0070-007f : rtc
0080-008f : dma page reg
00a0-00bf : pic2
00c0-00df : dma2
00f0-00ff : fpu
01f0-01f7 : ide0
02f8-02ff : serial(auto)
03c0-03df : vga+
03f0-03f5 : floppy
03f6-03f6 : ide0
03f7-03f7 : floppy DIR
03f8-03ff : serial(auto)
6000-603f : eth0
6100-617f : ncr53c8xx
f000-f007 : ide0
f008-f00f : ide1
("assm04" is part of our stupid naming scheme which sees a PC
running linux labelled as a Sun machine used as a model...)
>>>Of course, that doesn't explain why it works elsewhere, which is kinda
>>>starting to point towards software. Have you installed all of the
>>>updates (http://support.redhat.com/, under product
>>>fixes/updates/errata), paying special attention to anything X-related?
>>
>>Not as yet. Time, as always, is an issue. Seemed weird enough
>>(only affecting gtk-based stuff, and E [if that isn't gtk-based -
>> Linux over the last six months has been more of an "oh, something
>> to worry about later" thing, so I haven't really been paying all
>> that much attention]) that I figure an X server problem is unlikely.
>>
>>I'll whack those on tomorrow.
>
>Groovy. It does seem odd, and I don't know any problems like that fixed
>in the new stuff, but hey, it can't hurt... worst it can do is increase
>your system security slightly.
Didn't get time -- spent far too long working around FireWall-1.
Have got wget mirroring ftp://updates.redhat.com/6.0/i386/
now, though, so an update tomorrow (in between screwing with
mysql and entertaining the boss) is looking feasible.
I'd be intrigued to see much of a security gain from the updates
though -- that machine is pretty much nailed down, with nothing
non-essential running. Yes, I used to work for an ISP, why do
you ask? :-)
>>>Also, if worse comes to worse, there's always The Unofficial Gnome
>>>Updates. ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/RHAD/redhat-6.0/ ... these have
>>>done wonders for my sanity. I had gnome running for 5 days straight on
>>>my work PC without any crashes, core files, or severe memory leaks. It
>>>woulda kept going, except I had to start mucking with the internal
>>>composition of the machine again. -rt
>>
>>Until today, that machine (and that login) had been up for about
>>three weeks or so, with nothing nasty going on. But then it mostly
>>just gets used for running Opera and a few server front-ends
>>(Sybase, FW-1) in a VMware session, so it hasn't exactly been
>>hammered.
>
>Mine does get hammered... I don't have VMware running, which means
>everything has to run talking to gnome itself ;-) -rt
The new machine (should it ever arrive... fscking purchasing
lusers...) will probably get a moderate amount of use (well, more
than this one), but we're looking more at a sort of semi-intelligent
X terminal than anything else.
Anyway, I ran the backups seperately today, and no problems at
all. While the logic of running both simultaneously is kind of
questionable (it's not like the two machines are on their own
segment or anything, and it's *still* 10Mbit...), I'm still kind
of worried by it's behaviour.
Silly question: are RH planning to officially support PowerMacs
in a future release? I've got my little 7200/75 (which is what
I'm writing this on) doing "stable-machine-I-don't-screw-with"
duty, running a fairly ancient LinuxPPC.
Matt McLeod
>Hopefully future releases will ship with a GNOME which works better.
Just how broken is that version, anyway? As I may have mentioned,
I've been sort of living in Sun-land for the last six months, not
paying a great deal of attention to Linux stuff. All I really know
is that the version on the knockoff RH6.0 CD I'm currently using
(which may well have some bits updated - I really don't know)
seems stable enough, although I'm not really stressing it a great
deal (mostly use WindowMaker on the U5 on the other side of the
desk...)
Of course, this may all turn out to be for nothing -- some bonehead
or other is trying to get Linux banned from the local part of
the corporate WAN -- in favour of NT! Which should be interesting,
because there are units making much more use of Linux than we are,
and they basically rely on it to get their work done.
Andrew J Cosgriff
Like a rat out of an aqueduct, it's Jim Kingdon!
>> Hopefully future releases will ship with a GNOME which works better.
Matt> Just how broken is that version, anyway?
[...]
It's almost usable, but there's a few dodgy things I've noticed like
random panel crashes, and the clock in the panel freezing overnight
(maybe the battery ran out ? :) and the session manager dumping core
every time I logout (or in, perhaps).
Of course, if I just avoid Gnome and KDE and use my own .xsession file
running WindowMaker, it seems much better :)
I guess I should've just brought Debian in, but the others around here
are/will be running RedHat, so I'm biting the bullet...
--
Andrew J Cosgriff <a...@bing.wattle.id.au> exterminate all rational thought !
rewind surprise 1990s footwear asteroid
Jim Kingdon
> are/will be running RedHat, so I'm biting the bullet...
Funny, that's why I started running Red Hat Linux too :-) (back in
about 1995 or 1996).
<cheesy shaver salesman mode>
I liked it so much, I went to work for the company.
</salesman>
(Feel free to slap me if I'm getting obnoxious).
Jim Kingdon
Oh wait, I don't know if you would know that commercial in .au.
In the 1970's (or so), there were commercials in which this guy came
on touting the Remington electric shaver and how it gave him such a
great shave and how he liked it so much that he bought the company
(and now he is CEO or whatever).
Nothing improves a good joke like explaining it :-).
Matt McLeod
>Jim Kingdon <kin...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>>> <cheesy shaver salesman mode>
>>
>>Oh wait, I don't know if you would know that commercial in .au.
>
>well known catchphrase in .uk, and I remember the ads.
Never seen the ad (or, more accurately, I may have seen it but
wasn't paying any great deal of attention at the time, what with
being both quite young and disinterested in the telly at the time),
but the catchphrase is pretty well known.
So it probably did make it here.
Matt McLeod
>> I guess I should've just brought Debian in, but the others around here
>> are/will be running RedHat, so I'm biting the bullet...
>
>Funny, that's why I started running Red Hat Linux too :-) (back in
>about 1995 or 1996).
I started running RH (in the guise of the CND betas) mostly
out of curiosity (never have been able to stand using the same
thing at home for more than a few months). Stopped using it when
I met FreeBSD, but didn't bear it any ill will.
Then I started adminning RH5.0 boxes for a living. It's taken
quite a while to get over that - I'm afraid that has left me a
lot more suspicious of new RH releases than I used to be. Good
thing, I suppose -- beat a bit of the naivety out of me.
(That I've been able to forget a lot about that period is a
blessing. Reminders not appreciated)
Jim Kingdon
> quite a while to get over that
5.1 was worse :-).
Fortunately, 6.0 seems to be fairly solid except for GNOME.
And the next release will be even better (No, I don't mean that
completely seriously, I am cynical enough to have plenty of faith in
our ability to screw it up :-)).
David Damerell
>Funny, that's why I started running Red Hat Linux too :-) (back in
>about 1995 or 1996).
>I liked it so much, I went to work for the company.
></salesman>
I like Debian so much, I, I, damn. Never mind.
--
David/Kirsty Damerell. dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk
CUWoCS President. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/ Hail Eris!
|___| You bought a mask: I put it on: you never thought to ask me if I wear
| | | it when you're gone. The Sisters of Mercy: When You Don't See Me.
Matt McLeod
>> quite a while to get over that
>
>5.1 was worse :-).
Didn't go there, thank $DEITY.
5.0 was bad enough that we didn't install another RH release,
and slowly moved to FreeBSD as time and equipment allowed.
>Fortunately, 6.0 seems to be fairly solid except for GNOME.
Yup - it doesn't seem too bad at all. It took a *lot* for me
to even consider giving it a try, let alone consider it as
our new workstation-replacement platform.
>And the next release will be even better (No, I don't mean that
>completely seriously, I am cynical enough to have plenty of faith in
>our ability to screw it up :-)).
If they've learnt their lesson from 5.0/5.1, then there's every
chance that the next release *will* be even better.
Two more questions:
* is modprobe happy to load modules from anywhere, including stuff
living on NFS? Don't have anything suitable to try this with
at home right now.
* has anyone used VMware in a corporate setting, where you don't
want to be assigning licenses to individuals? I've asked the
VMware people this several times now, and not even something
as blunt as "Hey, I work for $VBC. We want to buy a shitload
of licenses for this thing. Can we get a centralized license
setup instead of this dinky one-file-per-user arrangement? This
is worth quite a lot of $$$s" has so much as gotten a response.
Anyone'd think they don't want our business...
Kirrily 'Skud' Robert
>> <cheesy shaver salesman mode>
>
>Oh wait, I don't know if you would know that commercial in .au.
We do. Or at least, those of us who've watched too much television do.
K.
--
Kirrily 'Skud' Robert - sk...@netizen.com.au - http://netizen.com.au/
Real World: A bizarre dimension in which the standard dress is shirt
and tie and in which a person's working hours are defined as 9 to 5.
Kai Henningsen
> On 16 Jul 1999 08:53:04 -0400, Jim Kingdon <kin...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> <cheesy shaver salesman mode>
> >
> >Oh wait, I don't know if you would know that commercial in .au.
>
> We do. Or at least, those of us who've watched too much television do.
I certainly don't. Then again, I never was much into TV.
Kai
--
http://www.westfalen.de/private/khms/
"... by God I *KNOW* what this network is for, and you can't have it."
- Russ Allbery (r...@stanford.edu)
Kai Henningsen
> * is modprobe happy to load modules from anywhere, including stuff
> living on NFS? Don't have anything suitable to try this with
> at home right now.
Why not? A module is just a .o file, and modprobe is doing nothing more
exiting than linking it into a memory image. I can't see why the fs should
be relevant.
Matt McLeod
>m...@labyrinth.net.au (Matt McLeod) wrote on 17.07.99 in <slrn7p10e...@bannor.netizen.com.au>:
>
>> * is modprobe happy to load modules from anywhere, including stuff
>> living on NFS? Don't have anything suitable to try this with
>> at home right now.
>
>Why not? A module is just a .o file, and modprobe is doing nothing more
>exiting than linking it into a memory image. I can't see why the fs should
>be relevant.
Cool - I wasn't sure if there was some special voodoo going
on there.
Matt
--
"In those days he was wiser than he is now -- he used to frequently
take my advice." -- Winston Churchill
Jim Kingdon
> living on NFS? Don't have anything suitable to try this with
> at home right now.
As someone else posted, I don't see why not. But I'd feel more
confident if I actually had done it (or knew where to look up an
answer from someone who had). Kernels can have strange
non-orthogonalities for subtle reasons (e.g. copyfile() is only to the
network, not to disk, or something like that). Like I say, though,
I'm not aware of one in this case (and I think the Red Hat Linux
install process actually does a modprobe from NFS, for an NFS install,
although I'm not 100% sure of that).
> * has anyone used VMware in a corporate setting, where you don't
> want to be assigning licenses to individuals? . . .
> Anyone'd think they don't want our business...
<insert random flame here about proprietary software>
No, don't know anything about this. I guess I'd keep looking for new
people within VMware until you find someone who is at least willing to
say "no" :-). I'd suggest resellers but they don't have any yet
according to http://www.vmware.com/vmwarestore/salesfaq.html - which
means to me that they are just beta testing (even if they don't call
it that) and aren't really trying to sell yet. I'm sort of guessing
that once their product has been out longer they'll be thinking more
about putting it in the hands of customers, but I have a great deal of
faith in the power of incompetence and even if they do get it together
that could take a while.
Matt McLeod
>> * has anyone used VMware in a corporate setting, where you don't
>> want to be assigning licenses to individuals? . . .
>> Anyone'd think they don't want our business...
>
><insert random flame here about proprietary software>
Agreed in general. In this specific case, though, we need
to be able to run some Windows apps. Either we run Windows,
or we run Windows on Linux. Guess which one we (even our users)
prefer?
(Or, for the sake of completeness, we buy everyone an Ultra and
a SoftWindows license. Damned expensive, though)
>No, don't know anything about this. I guess I'd keep looking for new
>people within VMware until you find someone who is at least willing to
>say "no" :-).
I haven't been able to get anyone to say *anything*. Despite
having already bought a couple of licenses, *and* mailing me with
some automated thing saying "if you have any questions, we're glad
to answer them, mail this guy". It's getting to the point where
I'm going to have to stay back one night and phone them.
I mostly deal with Sun and Sybase these days - while Sybase's
tech support sucks, at least there's a guy there I know I can
call who'll get sales-type questions answered pronto. Sun is
even better, as the sales-type guy will also get sales-related
technical questions answered for me pretty quickly.
So I guess I've been spoilt by reasonably good customer service. :-)
> I'd suggest resellers but they don't have any yet
>according to http://www.vmware.com/vmwarestore/salesfaq.html - which
>means to me that they are just beta testing (even if they don't call
>it that) and aren't really trying to sell yet. I'm sort of guessing
>that once their product has been out longer they'll be thinking more
>about putting it in the hands of customers, but I have a great deal of
>faith in the power of incompetence and even if they do get it together
>that could take a while.
If they're just beta-testing, then they've got a damned solid
beta -- I haven't come across any problems with it in the couple
of months we've been using it. It's simply worked. Even awful
stuff like Microsoft software runs correctly, as do most games
[although you didn't hear that from me :-)].
It's really only the licensing part which sucks - it looks for a license
file in ~/.vmware. So far as I can tell, I could probably symlink
one one-user license file to /home/*/.vmware/license (or whatever
it was called) and it'd work, not spotting that I've got sixty
people using a single-user license...
flexlm sucks, but at least it sucks in ways which improve
one's employment prospects. :-)
Here endeth the rant.
Matt
--
"I prefer rogues to imbeciles, because they sometimes take a rest."
-- Alexandre Dumas (fils)
Jim Kingdon
>
> Agreed in general. In this specific case, though, we need
> to be able to run some Windows apps. Either we run Windows,
> or we run Windows on Linux. Guess which one we (even our users)
> prefer?
Oh, understood, I don't know of any free software which even comes
close to VMWare (WINE is a great thing, but not something which is
ready to roll out for this kind of use).
> If they're just beta-testing, then they've got a damned solid
> beta -- I haven't come across any problems with it in the couple
> of months we've been using it. It's simply worked.
Oh, maybe "early market" or something would be a better word for what
I'm talking about than "beta testing" - I'm talking about whether
their marketing and sales is ready for people like you, not whether
their technology is ready. See, I just finished reading _Crossing the
Charm_ and all this marketing stuff is in my brain. Now I get to try
to forget it all (since I'm no longer in a marketing job - and very
happy not to be).
> flexlm sucks, but at least it sucks in ways which improve
> one's employment prospects. :-)
Yeah, seems like VMWare should just use flexlm (or some other license
manager which sucks in known ways).
Matt McLeod
>> ><insert random flame here about proprietary software>
>>
>> Agreed in general. In this specific case, though, we need
>> to be able to run some Windows apps. Either we run Windows,
>> or we run Windows on Linux. Guess which one we (even our users)
>> prefer?
>
>Oh, understood, I don't know of any free software which even comes
>close to VMWare (WINE is a great thing, but not something which is
>ready to roll out for this kind of use).
To be honest, I doubt WINE is ever going to be ready for this
kind of thing - it's a moving target. VMware (and other similar
products, like VirtualPC on the Mac, and SheepShaver on BeOS/PPC)
are able to keep up simply by not trying to keep up, if that makes
any sense.
>> If they're just beta-testing, then they've got a damned solid
>> beta -- I haven't come across any problems with it in the couple
>> of months we've been using it. It's simply worked.
>
>Oh, maybe "early market" or something would be a better word for what
>I'm talking about than "beta testing" - I'm talking about whether
>their marketing and sales is ready for people like you, not whether
>their technology is ready.
You could be right about that. It's quite frustrating -- I want
to buy their product, in quantity, but need a simple question
answered before I can do that. They seem unable to answer the
question.
> See, I just finished reading _Crossing the
>Charm_ and all this marketing stuff is in my brain. Now I get to try
>to forget it all (since I'm no longer in a marketing job - and very
>happy not to be).
Understandably. I remember considering marketting as a career
option long ago, and concluding that I couldn't lie well enough
to make a go of it. :-)
>> flexlm sucks, but at least it sucks in ways which improve
>> one's employment prospects. :-)
>
>Yeah, seems like VMWare should just use flexlm (or some other license
>manager which sucks in known ways).
Is there anything much by way of license management stuff available
for Linux? I can't say I've ever noticed it...
--
"Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results."
fl...@interport.net (void)
Lars Balker Rasmussen
> (Or, for the sake of completeness, we buy everyone an Ultra and
> a SoftWindows license. Damned expensive, though)
I told you about the SunPci cards at one point. I got one recently.
Works damn well (also over remote X), even though it can only run
Windows 95. Sun sells them for something like US$1000 here. What would
a SoftWindows license cost and would it run as well (speed/completeness)
as a real Windows installation on a genuine AMD-processor?
--
Lars Balker Rasmussen "Meanwhile, in marketing."
Jim Kingdon
> option long ago, and concluding that I couldn't lie well enough
> to make a go of it. :-)
Oh, we don't call it "lying", we call it "presenting the half full
side of the glass".
Er, I think I might be proving your point :-).
> Is there anything much by way of license management stuff available
> for Linux? I can't say I've ever noticed it...
Caldera ships with flexlm (at least it used to).
As far as I know Linux doesn't have as much available for license
managers compared with the commercial unices. Either in terms of in
terms of license management packages or in terms of packages which use
license management
Peter Maydell
>Is there anything much by way of license management stuff available
>for Linux? I can't say I've ever noticed it...
There's the Debian approach to license management:
/usr/doc/<package>/copyright contains a reference to /usr/doc/copyright/GPL
so you only have to have one copy of the GPL on your system rather
than one per package installed :->
Peter Maydell
<sorry, couldn't resist>
Matt McLeod
Not sure on the cost of SoftWindows, but almost certainly less than
the SunPCI cards -- although the quote we get from Sun was pretty
reasonable (don't recall how much off-hand).
For some reason the SunPCI option isn't favoured.
Matt
--
"I don't have any solution but I certainly admire the problem."
-- Ashleigh Brilliant
Matt McLeod
[VMware licensing issues]
>You could be right about that. It's quite frustrating -- I want
>to buy their product, in quantity, but need a simple question
>answered before I can do that. They seem unable to answer the
>question.
Once again, ranting gets a useful response[0].
Thanks a bunch to Jeremy and Jeff at VMware -- looks like
we'll be able to sort something out, which is cool. And
they get to make some nice big sales. Hopefully.
Matt
[0] I don't do it often -- it usually seems to bring something
good[1], but I'm worried that it'll lose it's effectiveness
if it's overused.
[1] Like the job offer resulting from a rant in asr.
--
Mistakes are often the stepping stones to utter failure.