StarDate: March 14 A Toast to Einstein
Gene Ward Smith
>Today we celebrate the birthday of Albert Einstein -- the first person
>to suggest that space can be curved. More -- after this.
I think this was Gauss, Debbie. Einstein suggested that space-time was
curved, which is not the same thing. Am I the only one who finds the tripe
emanating from "StarDate" to be often annoying?
ucbvax!brahms!gsmith Gene Ward Smith/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720
Fifty flippant frogs / Walked by on flippered feet
And with their slime they made the time / Unnaturally fleet.
Gene Ward Smith
>In article <12...@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>, gsm...@brahms.BERKELEY.EDU (Gene Ward Smith) writes:
>... Mr. Smith first makes a correction to the 14 March stardate article...
>> Am I the only one who finds the tripe
>> emanating from "StarDate" to be often annoying?
>***Flame On. ****
>I think you are one of the few pompous people who seem to think that just
>because they know something about astronomy, putting out short, non technical
>articles for the general public could only be considered 'tripe'. Stardate
I prefer to think I am one of the boring, pompous people who believe that
if this is done, 'twer best done correctly. I also find the Kindergarten
teacher tone a little annoying.
>is brodcast over radio daily in many major markets, and the folks are at
>U. Texas are kind enough to send a transcript out over the net. I have
>found their articles informative and useful, and I have done a great deal
>of studying in the field on my own. Consider: The average person has no
>idea of the difference between space and space time. In fact, according to
>Einstein, there is no difference, if I remember correctly. Don't assume
Wrong. Study more, and listen to Debbie less.
ucbvax!brahms!gsmith Gene Ward Smith/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720
"There are no differences but differences of degree
between degrees of difference and no difference"
Matthew P. Wiener
>>Today we celebrate the birthday of Albert Einstein -- the first person
>>to suggest that space can be curved. More -- after this.
Yay!
> I think this was Gauss, Debbie. Einstein suggested that space-time was
>curved, which is not the same thing. Am I the only one who finds the tripe
>emanating from "StarDate" to be often annoying?
Boo!
To answer your question: no, but so what? I know you use 'rrn', so put it
in your kill file, Gene. Now let's all go back to having a peaceful news-
group. Or we'll just start calling you the 'Josh McDowell of net.astro'.
O-) Megaton Man, on patrol.
Wooo!
ucbvax!brahms!weemba Matthew P Wiener/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720
c...@lanl.uucp
> emanating from "StarDate" to be often annoying?
Perhaps the author of this flame should read net.astro.expert instead of
net.astro.
I, for one, very much appreciate the efforts of Debbie and the others at
utastro. I suspect that those of us who are *not* experts in astronomy
considerably outnumber those who are. Keep up the good work, Debbie.
--
The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of my employer,
the government or your favorite deity.
Charlie Sorsby
...!{cmcl2,ihnp4,...}!lanl!crs
c...@lanl.arpa
Matthew P. Wiener
>>>Today we celebrate the birthday of Albert Einstein -- the first person
>>>to suggest that space can be curved.
>>
>> curved, which is not the same thing.
>
>as models of reality. As far as I know, Einstein was the first to use non-
>Euclidean geometry to describe real space.
Gene's assertions are correct. In particular, the distinction between
curved space and curved space-time is important, but usually ignored in
popular accounts.
Gauss measured the angles of a large triangle in Germany to see whether or
not the three angles added up to 180 degrees experimentally. He concluded
that one could not yet tell. Einstein was the first to *successfully* use
non-Euclidean geometry in describing the mathematics of space-time. On the
way to his general theory of relativity, he had tried a theory which just
involved the curvature of space, still treating time as something separate.
This theory gave the correct prediction for the precession of Mercury's orbit,
but gave a value for the deflection of light by the sun one-half of the
correct value.
Riemann in the mid 19th century had tried using his geometry to base a theory
of gravitation on. He missed the importance of space-time as opposed to just
space. My memory is fuzzy on failed theories of gravitation, but I seem to
recall Ni in 1913 proposed a theory of relativity involving curved space-time.
He had the right idea but the wrong field equations.
We all hear about the success stories in the history of science, but there
are a lot of fascinating close misses.
Adrian Zannin
> > emanating from "StarDate" to be often annoying?
> >
> > ucbvax!brahms!gsmith Gene Ward Smith/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720
>
> --
> Jeff Lichtman at rtech (Relational Technology, Inc.)
[]
My feelings exactly! There are those of us who enjoy reading the StarDate
articles...without them I would have missed several events that I enjoyed
a great deal. Mr. Gene Ward Smith, there are those of us out here in netland
who have the ability to read what is on the screen and get information out of
it, rather than nit-picking the "tone" in which the information is displayed.
If you find it so annoying, why not just skip the article? I find it rather
pleasant to read StarDate and I enjoy the tone of it also since I am not an
expert in astronomy and have been rather annoyed at the tone of other articles,
those from the experts who assume that everyone else is as learned as they are.
And by the way, being of Italian descent, tripe is one of my favorite
dishes...
--
Adrian Zannin
SUNY at Buffalo Computer Science
..{bbncca,decvax,dual,rocksvax,watmath,sbcs}!sunybcs!ugzannin
CSNET: ugza...@Buffalo.CSNET
ARPANET: ugzannin%Buf...@csnet-relay.ARPA
BITNET: ugza...@sunybcs.BITNET
phoenix
>> > Am I the only one who finds the tripe
>> > emanating from "StarDate" to be often annoying?
>> >
>> > ucbvax!brahms!gsmith Gene Ward Smith/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720
>>
>> Am I the only one who finds complaints about a free service annoying?
>> --
>> Jeff Lichtman at rtech (Relational Technology, Inc.)
>[]
> My feelings exactly! There are those of us who enjoy reading the StarDate
>articles...without them I would have missed several events that I enjoyed
>a great deal. Mr. Gene Ward Smith, there are those of us out here in netland
>who have the ability to read what is on the screen and get information out of
>it, rather than nit-picking the "tone" in which the information is displayed.
>If you find it so annoying, why not just skip the article? I find it rather
>pleasant to read StarDate and I enjoy the tone of it also since I am not an
>expert in astronomy and have been rather annoyed at the tone of other articles,
>those from the experts who assume that everyone else is as learned as they are.
> And by the way, being of Italian descent, tripe is one of my favorite
>dishes...
>
>--
> Adrian Zannin
> SUNY at Buffalo Computer Science
>
I like StarDate as well, I find it presents good information in a "user-
friendly" :-) format. Not *everyone* in net.astro is an expert, that's why
net.astro.expert exists, I imagine. StarDate in *that* group would be an-
noying to some people I sure, since it would be couched in ordinary speech
instead of undecypherable mega-talk. I vote to keep StarDate: any information
you didn't know before is valuable.
mega-talk.
--
The Phoenix
(Neither Bright, Dark, nor Young)
---"A man should live forever...or die trying."
---"There is no substitute for good manners...except fast reflexes."
---"Never appeal to a man's "better nature". He may not have one.
Invoking his self-interest gives you more leverage."