Stair Design Ltd

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Irati Klute

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Aug 3, 2024, 4:51:03 PM8/3/24

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The stairs in your home are an important part of completing your dream home. A unique staircase or custom railing enhances your home's safety, comfort and style. We bring art, engineering, experience to stairway design and construction.

Hi everyone, I'm designing a modern farmhouse style RCA barn with living quarters on 2nd floor and struggling with the stairs. My design calls for L shaped stairs beginning in the right "lean to" going thru the main center section wall as shown below.

I'm wanting to maximize headroom while allowing for proper structural needs (i'm not sure how high we can go into that wall). Obviously need to stay below the top of shed roof but question is how far below.

For reference, the 7'3" measurement on "Perspective Framing" drawing is from top of landing to bottom of double top plate. The 7'6" on cross section is to top of same plate. Nice to have: keep riser above 7" (close to 7 1/4")

Thanks @Renerabbitt for the help here. Sorry it's the white section with 7'6" measurement depicted here i'm struggling with. The 7'6 is top of the plate, 7'3 would be bottom (of top). Do i need a header under that as well? I'm nervous having such little head room as it is for moving furniture up the stairs.

That's probably my sloppy drawing :). Here's another view. Highlighted area is what i'm tryna figure out. Can i put header above plates (so i don't reduce the headroom from 7'3")? And is 7'3" even reasonable for living quarters upstairs (the only living quarters in this building)?

well, 6'8 is code minimum because its allowable...same height of clearance as a door which we all have to walkthrough.
Without knowing the implications of the structural change its possible you could put a flush beam, consult an engineer.

Falls in houses are disturbingly common. I'm glad your mother has recovered. One of the sad statistics I saw was that very few seniors who are hospitalized with broken hips from falls ever leave hospital again.

Stairs are a menace - but something that keeps eating at me is how architecture in other parts of the world seems to get by with what to us would be extremely dangerous railings and stairs. Houses in Greece and Italy often have unguarded stairs, and a lot of Japanese architecture looks to my eyes like death-traps - but somehow they get by. There must be a cultural element to the way we react to our built environment.
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Malcolm,
You're right -- when I'm traveling in other countries, I've seen lots of unguarded stairs, stairs without handrails, and stairs with inconsistent riser heights. The examples in your link are particularly scary.

I think there's something to be said for irregularity and fostering caution. I understand the virtue of code requirements for stairs--the uniformity ensures that we all know what to expect and can safely use the stairs without thinking about it (or in en emergency). But it seems to me it also amplifies the hazard of a stair that deviates form the norm. We get so accustomed to not being careful on stairs that we have accidents on those that are different.

Gary,
You're undoubtedly right that most people approach an irregular stairway with more caution than they approach a regular stairway. If I'm hiking in the White Mountains, I am more careful about where I place my feet than I am when bounding up the stair of my own house.

That said, I'm sure that it would be possible to conduct a safety study that compared the fall rate for regular stairs compared to irregular stairs -- and that the fall rate for irregular stairs would be higher. Residential designers have to consider things like fall rates, because danger is not desired by homeowners -- even if dangerous situations foster caution.

I'd certainly not argue that irregular stairs are better head-to-head, but rather that in a locale where there are a large percentage of stair irregularities, falls rates on an individual set of irregular stairs may be comparatively lower. Thus, I'm thinking more like a study of fall rates on irregular stairs versus the percentage of irregular stairs in the community.

Martin--Interesting read, but you never explained what the hazard is, exactly, with a one-riser stair. To someone unaccustomed to this as a hazard, like me, a single stair seems like a triviality. Is this because they don't have the regular safety features? Because they're atypical?

Gary,
Malcolm identified the chief problem -- a 7 inch difference in height is hard to recognize. If the eye is looking at something 10 feet away, a single riser may not be noticed until it is too late.

Adam,
I understand your wife's impulse. I went through a phase of wanting to integrate Japanese features into my house design; in fact, I wanted to buy some tatami for a Japanese-style room. Never happened, for a variety of reasons. Just about the only Japanese idea we retained was a strict "no shoes indoors" policy -- but I built a conventional mudroom instead of a genkan.

It's your house, so build it how you want. But you might be glad if you omit the genkan, and go with a western-style mudroom, especially as you get older. In addition to the safety issue, the fact is that the older you get, the less enamored you'll be of steps.

Adam, I designed a genkan for clients in Maine a few years ago. We discussed a lot of options but settled on having a doorway and a change of flooring where the floor height changes, and bumping it out from the main house to keep floor framing simple (it was a modular home).

Hi. My wife and I are having a small house designed with strong Japanese elements (including a room with tatami, a classic "L" shape with a veranda and inner garden, and a genkan). Much about a traditional Japanese house can be easily adapted for a PGH, which ours will be. This includes simple roofs for solar (our home will be net zero, all electric), large eaves, and small size. If you want a genkan, by all means include one. I believe the concerns about tripping are overblown. Unlike a height change in the middle or edge of a room (which is clearly a bad idea), the genkan is not something you might casually stumble into. It presents a clear entrance and exit boundary. In this regard, I'd suggest that 4" is too slight a height difference. Ours will be at least 6" inches below the floor, and no one will mistake it for anything other than what it is, and no one will walk into our house with their shoes on. Of course, if a wheel chair is in the future, then that is something to consider. But there is no question that a genkan is far less of a concern for old folks than stairs.

I'm not sure belief is what you should found an argument about this on. Every safety organization that looks at stairs cautions against single risers. They are also one of the most litigated stair related injuries. Sure put one in if you want, but be clear eyed about the hazard they represent.

Great, I do not seem to have that kind of time. It burns me up that Chief does colored clothes hangers but can get around to supplying us with the proper tools. Making your own model is great but how easy is it to adapt to change in floor heights and size of stair.

I have to make the point though that any spiral tool that Chief may develop would never be able to include every custom type of spiral stair - there are just too many variables and options, too many details.

Glenn has an old Video on Jing about spiral staircases but I am not sure if he is still using the same methods now as the video was posted 4-5 yrs ago it appears........I'll let him repost the link as Flashplayer and Jing have been superseded - I get an error clicking on the old link I have.

No your not the crazy old man haha! A lot of us have been complaining about the stair tool for over a decade. In my opinion, its one of the oldest most outdated tools still on chief. Im not sure why many other things have been updated yet stairs seems to be the old antique they like to leave on the shelf as is. I agree with all your complaints and opinions on it. Lets hope X13 finally gets an overhaul on the stair tool!

"it was a dog's guts of a problem, brought in by a chap that's Few roos loose in the top paddock, but with a little encouragement and a zoom lesson, he'd have a go, ya mug, who in the end was a fair dinkem Shark biscuit, and went straight to the pool room"

We've made it super simple to add balustrade to your design - the new interactive staircase image allows you to simply click on the areas of the staircase you'd like to add balustrade to, with options for all balustrade styles including oak and glass. Our staircase design tool also shows a live "3D" staircase visualizer as you create your design, which updates with each click - You can now become an expert staircase designer!

Our stair designer has lots of useful features, such as the option to create new combinations of feature treads and the capability to design Open Plan staircases online with ease. It will also automatically alert you if you a design falls outside of building regulations.