Maine Central RR Caboose 672 is on the move in New England

[Sean McInerney]

Fellow "NERAIL" Inmates,

 Sad day for Maine Central railfans.  The last caboose that Maine Central RR purchased, 672, will be leaving the area on her own wheels.  If not the final caboose International made, it was certainly among the last.  Upon MEC's request (union agreement requirement), International tacked this single car order onto the end of a much larger Southern Pacific order.  So it's a little different in configuration than her slightly older brother, 671.   The wide vision started life on the Mtn Div before being given it's final duty on the D&H when Guilford took over and began to splatter the power and non-revenue cars all over the system.  It sat idle and languished in Mechanicville yard for nearly two years before one particular railfan took notice.  The phone calls began.

 After purchase from Guilford in the early 90's by the rabid railfan, it became a private car on the Merrimack Valley Railroad in Northfield, NH.  No time was wasted and some changes were made to suit the appeal of the new owner.  It had more caboose style windows added.  It received a new propane supplied heater and generator as well as some upgraded furniture.  It was tastefully done and kept the look and feel of an MEC buggy with a modest Pullman slant.   The "monitor" or cupola was left intact with two large original (even comfortable) swivel captain seats which hold a commanding view of the train.  The on-board wheel powered generator and interior and exterior lighting was kept intact and in good working order.  It was soon painted green and stenciled "Winnipesaukee River".  It was named after the river by which it spent it's days in "retirement service" among the other cabooses in the old Boston & Maine yard in Northfield, NH.  After dozens of trips on the White Mountain Branch to Lincoln NH and down to Concord NH, it's time for a change.  It's new life will begin next year, remaining as a private car on the Wellsboro & Corning RR in Pennsylvania.  This is a short line with CP and NS interchanges near Corning NY, recently purchased by Rail America. 

 Where is MEC 672 today?   Currently she is wearing reporting marks: RPCX 672

   New England Southern Railroad (NES) has moved the car to track 10 in the Concord NH yard (closest to I93) just north of the old B&M Tower.  In a poetic fashion Pan Am Railways will bring the car back to Mechanicville where the owner first foamed over it.  It will travel via Nashua and Ayer and interchange with NS for it's final leg toward Corning NY.  We are hoping on one of these moves they cut her onto the end of the train.  Not likely but you never know what the crew might do for old time sake.  The Nashua local may pick it up this week.  It may sit in Nashua for a few days, maybe the same in Ayer before it's gets on AYME (??).  I will do my best to post any movement.  Please do the same if you see it.  I need railfan help to spot it and track it's movement to Corning.

  Apologies to all the purists as it's not in MEC gold paint, which would be the anachronistic Maine Central coup de gras for those of us who are true New England historical railfans but you can't have it all.  I repeat, you cannot have it all!  In fact we are damn lucky this buggy has not rotted away on somebody's back yard panel track or like most, fallen to the scrapper's torch.  It is in as good a shape as the day it arrived on the Maine Central property.  It passed the PanAm car inspection, which is a testament of its rail worthiness.  This is no "hospital" move.  It's a fine example of our railroading past and it's on the move again over the rails of New England.  Don't miss it.

 Pictures posted to NERAIL Photo website would be appreciated if you should happen to catch it.

 Regards,
 ....Sean

[Geoff Doane]

" If not the final caboose International made, it was certainly among the last.  Upon MEC's request (union agreement requirement), International tacked this single car order onto the end of a much larger Southern Pacific order."

Sean, do you happen to know what year this was? I was wondering how close to the end of the caboose era that they were still being built.

Geoff Doane, Halifax, NS
Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry.

[Sean McInerney]

Hi Geoff,

ICC stamped the 672 paperwork on 28 September 1981 as completed. The
order came in on 31 January 1981 from Maine Central and it was added
to the tail end of a 75 car order for Sante Fe (I had erroneously
written SP previously). The car left Kenton Ohio via CR, then to CP
and Wells River, Vt. where it interchanged with the B&M. Once in
Woodsville, NH, the B&M moved it to Whitefield NH where MEC took
delivery and accepted the car. in October 1981. This makes sense as
it's first year of duty was on the Mtn Div. The 56,000 pound extra
wide vision car cost around $80K. It was built for heavy pusher
service (full frame sill) with specially ordered ATSF sliding 18"
cushioning couplers. Not what MEC would have typically required but
with cabooses in the final death throes between union and management
they took what ICC had at hand. Not the style of buggy routinely seen
in New England. Indeed a one of a kind car on the Maine Central.

Regards,
....Sean

On Dec 27, 10:27 am, "Geoff Doane" <geoff.do...@ns.sympatico.ca>
wrote:

[bljen...@comcast.net]

Granted the car was used on the Mountain Division, but the primary reason it was accepted in New Hampshire was to avoid paying state sales tax, there being none in New Hampshire as we all know. The G.E. U18Bs were delivered in a similar way a few years earlier.

---

[Dave Saums]

Brian, wasn't that also true for the delivery of the MEC GP38s? I seem to have just read that within the last few days, I think in one of the 3-volume Morning Sun set on the MEC.  (I was trying to find photos of the MEC EMD SW7/9s in the green scheme, as the Broadway Limited HO-scale model is no. 333.)

This practice of choosing which state to receive equipment in seemed to have been quite common in the railroad industry and makes good sense, given the variations in tax rates and policies from state to state.  If it was my company, I'd sure be doing the same -- and especially as a New Yorker (formerly), given what the New York State railroad tax policies had been historically.

It is astounding to see how late the wide-vision caboose delivery was for the MEC -- what a great piece of information! The real surprise (at least to me) is that such a large caboose order had been placed so late by ATSF.  Somehow, the loss of the caboose has really made a difference in the feel of being trackside -- and now, it's the loss of lineside signals, too, on many lines.

Dave Saums
Amesbury MA

[G Kenson]

Brian,  I don't live in Maine but if they were subject to a sales tax the moment it was brought into Maine it would be subject to the use tax, correct?

I have been through sales tax audits with large companies in MA but Maine may be a different animal.  Items used in Interstate Commerce are usually exempted such as boats airplanes and railroad equipment.

 

G Kenson

 

 

----- Original Message ----- aFrom: bljen...@comcast.net

To: ner...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 8:37 PM

Subject: [NERAIL] Re: Maine Central RR Caboose 672 is on the move in New England

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "New England railroading (NERAIL)" group.
To post to this group, send email to ner...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nerail+un...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nerail?hl=en.

[Geoff Doane]

Thanks for the background on this Sean. It's fortunate that somebody has the foresight to hang onto all that paperwork to flesh out the story. Since it was built with an underframe for pusher service, was it ever used that way on the Mountain Division? Late 1981 was pretty close to the end, and I'm not sure if MEC used helpers in the modern diesel era. In the steam and early diesel eras they did, but the helpers had to be cut in ahead of the caboose. I would guess strengthened underframes for cabooses were not common when that rule came into play.

Geoff Doane, Halifax, NS

Sent from my iPad

[Scott J. Whitney]

MEC sure did use helpers on the Mountain Div.

Not only did they use pushers, but it was the ONLY place in the northeast
I've ever seen mid-train helpers used.

I bet that caboose got used there.

SJW

----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Doane" <geoff...@ns.sympatico.ca>
To: <ner...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "New England railroading (NERAIL)" <ner...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 15:39
Subject: Re: [NERAIL] Re: Maine Central RR Caboose 672 is on the move in New
England

[bljen...@comcast.net]

We saw the GP7 that was stationed in Bartlett for the Gilman Local push RJ-1 from Bartlett to Crawford in early October, 1982. It was behind the caboose. Through service between Rigby and St. J. ended Labor Day weekend 1983, although there was a Guilford Operation Lifesaver train later that fall, and a couple of ballast trains in 1984. That's it except for Conway Scenic moves, including the over-sized load electrical equipment that moved through there a couple years back.

---

From: "Scott J. Whitney" <sjwh...@comcast.net>
To: ner...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 3:53:31 PM

Subject: Re: [NERAIL] Re: Maine Central RR Caboose 672 is on the move in New England

[Sean McInerney]

Hi Gang,

Good replies and information on the MEC 672 buggy. The owner has
only one picture of the buggy on the Mtn Div taken at a road
crossing. Brian J, if you have a picture of 672 on a train, the owner
would like to see it. For that matter if anyone has pictures of 672 in
service or especially pusher service, bring them out.. please! I
would love to see one. A monetary gain is offered. ;-) Could be a
good 470 club presentation.

Yes, the last MEC caboose could also be the last buggy made in
Kenton. We believe the Santa Fe order was the last one through the
plant but we do not know if 672 was the 76th unit in the order or the
1st so we cannot say with any surety that it was the last caboose
manufactured. I believe the delivery to NH had more to do with asset
depreciation or some other business tax accounting tactic as I do not
think railroad rolling stock would be subject to a Maine sales tax.
Perhaps replacement parts or other subsequent service charges might be
subject to a sales tax so maybe that would be a sufficient reason to
deliver it to Whitefield.

In any case, I chuckle at the thought of a RR white shirt popping out
of the little ball shanty in Whitefield to note the newest MEC asset
in a large paper ledger. "Ayup, she's 672 all right... she made it
ayup..."

BTW She still sits in the Concord NH yard waiting for Hell to freeze
over or the arrival of the PAR local...

....Sean

On Dec 28, 8:44 pm, bljenni...@comcast.net wrote:
> We saw the GP7 that was stationed in Bartlett for the Gilman Local push RJ-1 from Bartlett to Crawford in early October, 1982. It was behind the caboose. Through service between Rigby and St. J. ended Labor Day weekend 1983, although there was a Guilford Operation Lifesaver train later that fall, and a couple of ballast trains in 1984. That's it except for Conway Scenic moves, including the over-sized load electrical equipment that moved through there a couple years back.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[G Kenson]

I had the enjoyment of moving 672 around NH many dozens of times while it resided in Tilton, NH and it participated on the 6 annual caboose train trips run by the Hobo Railroad.

http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?201212282252475984.jpg

The caboose trains started early 90's and stopped running after the 2009 season.  They will be missed by all, especially by the crew at Hobo RR that operated them.

"Nothing lasts forever so enjoy it while you can"

 

[G Kenson]

Whitefield NH would be the first interchange point that the B&M had with the MEC so possibly to avoid B&M charges they would move it to their own tracks?

My guess is the caboose would qualify as Railroad rolling stock which   http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/36/title36sec1760.html  lists it as exempt from sales tax.

By definition it did not carry passengers or freight so its a gray area but locomotives would certainly be exempt per the definition.

 

Who knows but it's unimportant now.  671 it's sister while maybe different underneath is still in Tilton along with two other MEC cabooses for those interested.

 

 

----- Original Message -----

[bljen...@comcast.net]

Does Vermont have the same tax exemptions as Maine? Perhaps it was Vermont taxes they wanted to avoid. Otherwise, why not just take delivery from the CPR at St.J. and stay off the B&M entirely? There must be something to this story or else the railroad wouldn't have gone to such an effort to take delivery of new equipment in such an obscure location. Of course that begs the question... why not simply have the CPR deliver the new stuff to Keag if Maine isn't gonna tax it?

I know the SP was required to take delivery of new equipment outside of California, and operate it "based" outside California for six months to avoid paying state sales tax out there. Lots of locomotives were "accepted" in Oregon, which has no sales tax.

---

From: "G Kenson" <Ken...@comcast.net>
To: ner...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 6:39:59 AM

Subject: Re: [NERAIL] Re: Maine Central RR Caboose 672 is on the move in New England

[Allan Zecchini]

I remember seeing the GP9 ST 77, parked and shut down, in Whitefield, NH several years ago. This was about the time that the regular service in the Whitefield area was abandoned. I should have snapped a picture but didn't.

 

Allan Zecchini
Salem, NH
(the guy with the blue Camry with the short 19" Ham Radio antenna on the roof)

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: G Kenson

To: ner...@googlegroups.com

[Roy Breon]

Why did the trails end.  Apparently the crews liked the move.  Maybe management didn’t.  Was it an insurance issue?

 

Roy Breon

 

From: ner...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ner...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of G Kenson
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 11:44 PM
To: ner...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [NERAIL] Re: Maine Central RR Caboose 672 is on the move in New England

 

I had the enjoyment of moving 672 around NH many dozens of times while it resided in Tilton, NH and it participated on the 6 annual caboose train trips run by the Hobo Railroad.

--

[Sean McInerney]

The last move was with the B&M and they billed the owner for it. The
last move was from Wells River to Whitefield via Woodsville. They
charged the minimum delivery fee (100 mile cost) for the ten mile
trip.

....Sean

[Chuck Petlick]

Remember when the wide cab GP40’s (500’s) arrived,  already marked MEC,  they were all accepted in Dover, NH.  The first few were crawling with white shirts,  that faded out as each group arrived.  Several FRN’s were there to record those events.

Chuck Petlick

[madogbill]

Sean....do you know what the actual monetary charge was in dollars of that
time?
Bill Kozel><>

[Sean McInerney]

NERAIL Inmates,

MEC 672 (RPCX 672 ) was moved to Nashua by the PAR local on Saturday
evening after switching Blue Seal. Next move should be down to Ayer
to catch the westbound to Mickyville.

It was the last car of a 15 car train. Buggy on the end of a train
is nice to see these days.

....Sean

On Dec 26, 7:26 pm, Sean McInerney <spmspee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Fellow "NERAIL" Inmates,
>
>  Sad day for Maine Central railfans.  The last caboose that Maine Central
> RR purchased, 672, will be leaving the area on her own wheels.  If not

> *the*final caboose International made, it was certainly among the

[Sean McInerney]

Hey Bill,

Yes, I believe it was approximately $1.35 a mile... so they charged
him $135 to move the car from Wells River to Whitefield. This was in
1991 btw. The car was only in service with MEC/Guilford for ten years
before "disposal".

....Sean

[G Kenson]

I agree Brian there is a reason but it is not sales tax related I am sure.  There must be something that we just can't see here. Possibly apportionment of corporate taxes, There is a great Diner in Whitefield? There is a reason as you state but can't put my finger on it.

 

Just checked Vermont  and they are on the list of exempted items:

 

(30) Railroad rolling stock, including depreciable parts, machinery and equipment to be installed as a capital asset in such rolling stock, sold for use primarily in the carriage of persons or property. For purposes of this section, railroad rolling stock shall include locomotives, cabooses, boxcars, tank cars, flatbed cars, maintenance of way equipment and all other wheeled vehicles used on rails or tracks.

 

 

----- Original Message -----

[Donald, Morrison]

Nerail Group:

The B&M Time Table No. 47 (9/26/48) gives these mileages from WRJct.:

Whitefield, Me. Cent. RR: 72.65
Wells River 40.36,

or a distance of 32.29 miles, not the "100" implied below. Presumably the charge was $43.59, unless a fixed cost of some kind was included.

Donald F. Morrison
Never a "Bean Counter," always a "Copy Editor."
________________________________________
From: ner...@googlegroups.com [ner...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Sean McInerney [spmsp...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 9:47 AM

To: New England railroading (NERAIL)

[Allan Zecchini]

Maybe a 100 mile minimum charge for 'special' moves?

 

Allan Zecchini
Salem, NH
(the guy with the blue Camry with the short 19" Ham Radio antenna on the roof)

 

 

[Sean McInerney]

Hi Don,

I erroneously reported the mileage from Woodsville to Whitefield as
10 but its approx 31 (No 21, 1975) as you stated. You missed an
earlier reply where I stated he incurred a 100 mile minimum charge.

...Sean

On Dec 31, 10:51 am, "Donald, Morrison" <dona...@wharton.upenn.edu>
wrote:

> Nerail Group:
>
> The B&M Time Table No. 47 (9/26/48) gives these mileages from WRJct.:
>
> Whitefield, Me. Cent. RR:             72.65
> Wells River                                    40.36,
>
> or a distance of 32.29 miles, not the "100" implied below. Presumably the charge was $43.59, unless a fixed cost of some kind was included.
>
> Donald F. Morrison
> Never a "Bean Counter," always a "Copy Editor."
> ________________________________________

> From: ner...@googlegroups.com [ner...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Sean McInerney [spmspee...@gmail.com]

[G Kenson]

672 along with four other cabooses were bought the same week or during a two week period of time from GRS.  The B&M buggies were all in the yard at  E Deerfield where we inspected them. I purchased 464 with a friend and other friends bought  the others. The B&M buggies all arrived with free freight from GRS however we had to pay New England Southern for the trip up to Tilton.  I have since sold it but it still resides in Meredith with another B&M caboose(480 I think). This second one in Lincoln came separately several years after.  Lincoln has one of the group (486). Another is at The Old Colony & Newport RR now and the 4th is at the Adirondack RR. 

 

The 480 served as the "office" for GRS at the yard near Lechmere Square in Somerville. He did have to pay a freight charge to GRS as it was not bought the same time as the others.

 

We would have bought the 672 instead but it was already bought by its present owner.  I thought that 672 was in E Deerfield also but do not remember seeing it when I inspected 464.

Could have been somewhere else but we knew about and asked but we were too late.  I don't know what if anything he paid for transportation to Concord and then Tilton, I would have to ask him.  $135 sounds like New England Southern's charge to us for each B&M caboose.

 

G Kenson

 

 

, ----- Original Message -----

[madogbill]

Many thanks!!!
Inmates! Indeed! Good one!
Bill><>
A healthy, prosperous, Happy New Year!

"The punishment of wise men who refuse to take part
in the affairs of government is to live under the
government of unwise men" Plato

[Sean McInerney]

Hi George,

 Yes, that sounds familar as it's the same story related to me by the current owner of 672.  672 was first "noticed" in Mechanicville but it was bought while it resided in East Deerfield.  In fact there was an interesting conversation in ED with another buggy buyer as nobody really knew who bought 672, only that it was "gone".  He found out in the yard that day!

 The $135 charge in which we are referring in earlier posts is the B&M charge to Maine Central to move it from Wells River to Whitefield in 1981.

 Good info on the other buggies.  There is very little written about the McGinnis era buggies since Gilbert seemed to hate him so much.   Nice to hear about their final years etc..

....Sean

[Dave Saums]

Going back a bit in this message string, a comment was made that the Mountain Division was the only place in the Northeast where pushers were used.  Now, that comment surely was intended to mean in relatively recent times, like in the period after 1960.

However, my recollection is that both Penn Central and Conrail had stationed pushers at Pittsfield, Massachusetts on the former Boston & Albany.  They were used for the eastbounds headed up and over Washington Hill.

I assume that the same would have been true for New York Central in the years leading up to the 1968 Penn Central merger.

PC did not, again to the best of my recollection, put on mid-train pushers at Pittsfield.  They were held in a pocket track near the highway bridge over the tracks at the lead for North Adams Junction, and often were GE six-axle U-boats and sometimes EMD SD sets, and went on behind the caboose on each eastbound.  This was also the location where the North Adams branch and yard were located, heading up to North Adams from Pittsfield.

Anyone else recall? Is my memory correct? This was, I believe, an everyday occurrence for some years, although I do not remember when the practice was ended.  Most of what I saw was during the period 1970-1978.

Dave Saums
Amesbury MA

[Scott J. Whitney]

The fact that MEC had used mid train helpers really surprised the heck out of me.  I was with my group of cronies camped out on a piece of the old RT 302 out in the woods near the Sawyer River truss bridge at the bottom of the notch.  Along comes the westbound, wakes us up (a bit) and we hear what we expected to be pushers.  The only problem was that there was more freight behind them!  What I can't recall is whether or not they came drifting back down the hill later on.

 

SJW

 

 

[G Kenson]

We used to camp out at Cherry Mtn CG at Fabyan and there was only a friendly guy in a caboose at the end of the train that would flash back a light.  Must have been some time in the 80's.  Bartlett was deserted back then so must have been in the steam days they had the pushers.  That is what I remember.

[bljen...@comcast.net]

In 1950, Maine Central bought three m.u.-equipped EMD switchers (SW7s #331 to 333) specifically to use as pushers in Crawford Notch. Pan Am still assists heavy westbounds out of Fitchburg up Ashburnam hill, although this isn't a regular helper district per se, only as needed.

[RICHARD HOSKING]

Back in the 80's, the CV used helpers getting over Roxbury SB. When they replaced the GP9's with GP38's the need for the helpers ended. I can't remember if they went back to SAB light or were tacked onto 323 in Montpelier Jct. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 1, 2013, at 10:03 PM, bljen...@comcast.net wrote:

In 1950, Maine Central bought three m.u.-equipped EMD switchers (SW7s #331 to 333) specifically to use as pushers in Crawford Notch. Pan Am still assists heavy westbounds out of Fitchburg up Ashburnam hill, although this isn't a regular helper district per se, only as needed.

--

[NERRGuy]

Where might one get some nice photos of this activity?  Thanks.  --- On Tue, 1/1/13, bljen...@comcast.net <bljen...@comcast.net> wrote:

--

[Geoff Doane]

Where might one get some nice photos of this activity? 
Thanks. 

I think I read about this, and saw pictures in one of the Morning Sun Maine Central volumes. I forget the exact title, but it seems to me that Mr. Jennison had something to do with authoring it. :-)

I seem to remember pictures from the caboose, looking forward to the helpers and train. There was also a note about a special rule requiring the helpers to be cut in ahead of the caboose. That's why the strengthened underframe of MEC's last caboose caught my attention.

Geoff Doane, MEC fan in Halifax, NS
Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry.

[Jon Miner]

I found one here...

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2408097

---

From: NERRGuy <ner...@yahoo.com>
To: ner...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 7:13 AM
Subject: Re [NERAIL] Helpers in New England

[G Kenson]

Found three pictures in the book  "A Century of Railroading in Crawford Notch"  It is copyrighted so I will take the pictures down in a week in fairness to the authers.

From what I see and with John Miners shot it has been proven that Brian's  information on the two switcher helpers but It seemed that the caboose was at the end after the pushers.

Wish  I could ID the caboose number but grainy pictures.  The date of the book was 1975 well before 672 arrived so things could have changed regarding pushing by that time.,

 

Here a caboose is behind the pusher

http://www.hoborr.com/caboose photo album/3.jpg

 

Caboose is behind the pusher

http://www.hoborr.com/caboose photo album/2.jpg

 

Caboose is drifing back down the hill at the Wiley Brook Station

http://www.hoborr.com/caboose photo album/4.jpg

 

 

Here are some pictures I took of the last caboose train in Dec 2009 with the 672 showing up quite a few times.  Had to stop at Lakeport and pickup a B&M caboose that was sold to Adirondack RR and was interchanged with New England Southern. At the end of the caboose runs we were up to about 22 cabooses and two private cars.  Alco on front and one on back. Train length was over 1000ft.  Conductor on rear as he is also an engineer.

http://www.hoborr.com/caboose%20photo%20album/

[Allan Zecchini]

Nice pictures George.

 

Allan

----- Original Message -----

From: G Kenson

To: ner...@googlegroups.com

--

[bljen...@comcast.net]

Geoff, the Morning Sun books are by George Melvin, but I'm pretty sure I'm thinking of the same shot you are.

---

From: "Geoff Doane" <geoff...@ns.sympatico.ca>
To: ner...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 8:54:34 AM
Subject: Re: Re  [NERAIL] Helpers in New England

[Geoff]

Yes Brian, even though I have a fondness for the place, I seem to be somewhat geographically challenged.  Your books are titled “Railroads of the Pine Tree State”, and Bartlett is in New Hampshire (Granite State), even if it is the Maine Central.  Oh well, it reminded me that I have pull these books out again sometime this winter. J

 

Somewhere in my “library” I have a copy of "A Century of Railroading in Crawford Notch" , which I bought out of the back of Bill Robertson’s car in the summer of 1995, when Conway Scenic had just reactivated part of that route.

 

Geoff Doane, Halifax

 

 

From: ner...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ner...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of bljen...@comcast.net
Sent: January 2, 2013 16:23
To: ner...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Re [NERAIL] Helpers in New England

 

Geoff, the Morning Sun books are by George Melvin, but I'm pretty sure I'm thinking of the same shot you are.

[Geoff]

Bartlett was quite a place 100 years ago.  If you haven’t already, check out the other photos in the same folder on that site:

 

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archiveThumbs.aspx?id=64733

 

It’s hard to believe that Bartlett could support a station the size of the one in the 1915 picture, but I guess it did.

 

Geoff Doane, Halifax, NS

[Dave Saums]

For the MEC Mountain Division and the question of caboose placement with helpers:

Maine Central in Color, Vol. 1, Plant/Melvin:  Page 110 includes a Stephen Horsley photo from RY-2 in 1964; the view shows the rear lettering on F3 672B from what has to be a view from the caboose (although no part of the caboose is visible).  The implication thusly would be that the caboose is behind the pusher set; the caption refers to the fact that 672A is ahead of 672B, so that would suggest that the caboose was trailing along behind the A/B set of pushers.  Mount Wiley House is adjacent.
Maine Central in Color, Vol. 2, Plant/Melvin:  Page 4 shows an excellent side view by Robt F Collins in 1950 of the steam helper placed behind the caboose, high up in the Notch on one of the steel trestles.
 
Ditto, pp.18-19:  Chapter on "Steam in the White Mountains" comments on the addition of MEC Mikado 606 added to the point, ahead of two B&M E7s, on an RRNE circle tour.  The photo comment also adds that the following year, the helpers were a pair of brand-new MEC SW7s (which would have been 1950, by that reckoning in the Don Robinson photo caption).
 
Ditto, pp. 30-31:  Large two-page photo showing SW7 332 snuggling up behind wooden MEC caboose on symbol freight ZO-2.  If I read hard enough, it sounds and looks like the caption might be implying that 332 is going to be the pusher, behind the caboose -- or, that the reason for ducking in is to grab and remove the caboose, switch the caboose and 332's local 377 in behind, so that the SW7 would be a "near-end-of-train" mid-train helper.  Actually, between the two freights all strung together.  Then again, perhaps I am reading the caption too hard. John Ames photo.
 
Maine Central in Color, Vol. 3, Melvin solo, p. 38:  684/573 helper set behind the caboose at Wiley House.
 
I did a quick search through the estimable B. Jennison's collaboration with Don Marson ("Railroads of the Pine Tree State, vols. 1 and 2) and did not find photographs of pusher activity, but I may have been going too quickly -- and assumed that Brian would have mentioned if there was something directly relevant.
 
Trackside Around New Hampshire 1950-1970 with Ben English Jr., by the illustrious G. Melvin:

P. 110:  1963, new caboose 659 is trailing pusher set 576/580 at Notchland.

PP. 122-123:  A two-page spread of Ben's photos showing a ride in the caboose cut in behind the helper set on RY-2 at Bartlett, on Frankenstein, passing Mt. Willard House, and then the helper set by itself after dropping back down to Brtlett.  Helpers that day were GP38 260, GP7 562, and another GP38.  Feb 1970.
 
P. 128: Closing photogrph in the book, wooden caboose ahead of what might be a GP38 set of pushers passing Notchland on RY-2.

That's what I've found.  I didn't look for the Robinson books because we've already covered that.  One of the commentaries in the English/Melvin book describes seeing increasing train sizes in the late 1960s-1970s, with as many as four units on the head and four units as helpers, either trailing or moderately mid-train.

Dave Saums
Amesbury MA

[Ben Perry]

When the CV first dieselized with FM C-Liners, it was common to see a 2-8-0 helper on the head end to get the train over State Hill South of Palmer.
Ben Perry

[bljen...@comcast.net]

Remember that the White Mountains were a popular summer vacation region back then (still are, of course). People would come up from Boston and New York and stay for weeks at a time. With good rail service available, Dad (or should I say "Father") could work during the week and take a train up on Friday to be with the family, then ride back to Boston on Sunday afternoon.

---

[Brian on Verizon]

Hello, all stations…

Another colorful source for info on helper service on the MEC Mountain Division through Crawford Notch:

If anyone has a copy of Herron Rail Services' 1990 VHS release "New England Glory Volume 1 - Mountain Division" they can watch several long steam-powered MEC freights run through Crawford Notch, with helpers, and (I think) some mid-train 2-8-0s on longer trains working the grade.  These are Stanley Whitney's 16mm color films, and the tape was produced under special arrangement with the B&M Historical Society.

This tape is a true gem, and is one of my favorites.  I do not know if this was ever released as a DVD; if it is, then I want to get one.

Brian Gilleran

Herndon, VA

On Jan 2, 2013, at 7:45 PM, Geoff <geoff...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:

Bartlett was quite a place 100 years ago.  If you haven’t already, check out the other photos in the same folder on that site:

 

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archiveThumbs.aspx?id=64733

 

It’s hard to believe that Bartlett could support a station the size of the one in the 1915 picture, but I guess it did.

 

Geoff Doane, Halifax, NS

 

From: ner...@googlegroups.com [mailto:nerail@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jon Miner
Sent: January 2, 2013 09:54
To: ner...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Re [NERAIL] Helpers in New England

 

I found one here...

 

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2408097

 

[bljen...@comcast.net]

Yes, it is available as DVD although I don't have the particulars at hand (but I did buy the DVD!)

---

From: "Brian on Verizon" <bgil...@verizon.net>
To: ner...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 8:43:30 PM

[RICHARD HOSKING]

It is available at

 http://fbdp6211.fatcow.com/store/page3.html

Sent from my iPhone

[Bill H]

I just did a Google search for Herron Rail Services and found this DVD in their Online store.

 

https://www.ribbonrail.com/HerronRail/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=46&osCsid=bs251ij1pvvj1ohr9piljom5e6

Bill Haitch

Methuen MA

---

[Mike Fox]

It's on the move. NERAIL Photographer Mike Wells caught it here. http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?2013010314132624199.jpg

 

Mike

From: G Kenson

Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 6:39 AM

To: ner...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [NERAIL] Re: Maine Central RR Caboose 672 is on the move in New England

Whitefield NH would be the first interchange point that the B&M had with the MEC so possibly to avoid B&M charges they would move it to their own tracks?

My guess is the caboose would qualify as Railroad rolling stock which   http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/36/title36sec1760.html  lists it as exempt from sales tax.

By definition it did not carry passengers or freight so its a gray area but locomotives would certainly be exempt per the definition.

 

Who knows but it's unimportant now.  671 it's sister while maybe different underneath is still in Tilton along with two other MEC cabooses for those interested.

 

 

----- Original Message -----

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott J. Whitney" <sjwhit...@comcast.net>
> To: ner...@googlegroups.com

> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 3:53:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [NERAIL] Re: Maine Central RR Caboose 672 is on the move in New England
>

> MEC sure did use helpers on the Mountain Div.
>
> Not only did they use pushers, but it was the ONLY place in the northeast
> I've ever seen mid-train helpers used.
>
> I bet that caboose got used there.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "New England railroading (NERAIL)" group.
To post to this group, send email to ner...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nerail+un...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nerail?hl=en.

[Allan Zecchini]

I haven't seen a buggy on the rear of a freight for years. It brings back pleaasant memories of yesteryear.

 

Allan Zecchini
Salem, NH
(the guy with the blue Camry with the short 19" Ham Radio antenna on the roof)

[Sean McInerney]

 Thanks Mike!  Nice pic!  She looks good at the end of a real freight train.  I'm sure you would agree.  Now the trick is to find out when she pulls out of Ayer and heads to Mickeyville.  That would be a good chase down Rt. 2, through the Hoosac and into NY.

....Sean

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Mike Wells <mike.mf...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sean,

It came through Westford at about 12:30 today. I posted a picture on the NERAIL photo site.

Mike

On Wednesday, December 26, 2012 7:26:39 PM UTC-5, Sean McInerney wrote:

Fellow "NERAIL" Inmates,

  <snip>

 

  I need railfan help to spot it and track it's movement to Corning.

<snip>

 
 Pictures posted to NERAIL Photo website would be appreciated if you should happen to catch it.

 Regards,
 ....Sean

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "New England railroading (NERAIL)" group.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/nerail/-/u94g72cHg18J.