Notice all Neotek Elite Noise Detectives

[Ron Flack]

Greeting all,

Regarding our Neotek Elite II, we are experiencing the same kind of noise across channels in buckets (groups) of 8 ... So channel 1-8 have a unique noise, channels 9-16 do the same channels 17-24 same. I've confirmed this theory by recording all 40 channels into Logic Pro and then picking one channel from each bucket of the 8 as the control and then comparing it to the other 7 per bucket. Soloing the control channel and one other at a time, I flipped the phase on the other channel the noise was completely gone. It canceled itself out. SO, I thinking the noise is being introduced consistently across all 8 channels of each bucket.

Simple question, why?  Wouldn't the power rails be the most likely instegator to provide the same kind of noise?  Is this likely an old cap problem or is there a "loose ground wire" that will magically fix everything?   

Also, there are problem children along the way. As I checked the channels I would find noise that wouldn’t cancel, so we’ll have some channel by channel issues to care for BUT by in large it seems like the core noise issues are being distributed from common sources.

Initially I thought the "buckets" or groups of 8 would be define by where the power is introduced on PIN 19, currently on modules with P19 =  4, 12, 20, 29, 39... I'm not sure that's the case.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciate.

Ron Flack, Realgrey Records, Canton Ohio

[ik...@zimbelaudio.com]

Hi Ron,

                So, all buckets have a different noise signature? Can you describe the noise? Also, what is the relative level of the noise in -dBu? Is there a dominant frequency to the noise? Do you have 40 channels of converters, so each 8 channels went into its own converter, or, did you make multiple passes?

And…do you have any WiFi hardware near the desk? Router, range extender etc.? If so, turn those off and test again.

 

-- 

   ~Ike Zimbel~

   Wireless frequency coordination specialist.

   Manufacturer's Representative

   Radio Active Designs (Canada)

       ~416-720-0887~

FCC:WRBX645

   http://www.zimbelaudio.com/wireless-frequency-coordination/

 

   ca.linkedin.com/pub/ike-zimbel/48/aa1/266

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[Mike S.]

Hi

Just wondering when this started? Elite II have programmable ground return and maybe someone switched  the modules! 

Also you may consider disconnecting everything from the console to measure noise, sometimes even lights in the studio or digital equipment sharing the ground may induce noise.

Id the mic-preamp open without mic plugged in or something in the line, line should be loaded with 600 ohms and pot level to min.

Sincerely

Mike Stoica

[Ron Flack]

@Ike Zimble

Yes, each bucket of 8 channels have a unique noise signature.  I've attached a wav file of channel 1 which is typical of what I'm getting on all channels, also a screen capture of our EQ plug-in.  I've included a link to a google drive where you can hear 1-26.  I did the recording in 2 passes.  1-24 and then 25-40.  8' away from the console we have a bluetooth transmitter.   I think we're resolved to scrap channels 27-40.  In the short term we want to get 1-26 as fully functional as possible, so focusing our attention on the first 26 modules.

@Mike Stoica

I bought the console 2 1/2 years ago from Sphere Audio.  Duncan at Sphere had it setup for me when I arrived and there was no indication of noise at that point.  I transported it in a mini van.  8 hour drive.  We've had the noise issue from day 1 upon setting it up hear at Realgrey.  So your suggestion that it's environmental could be a real possibility.  I will say our facility is star grounded. We went the extra mile on making sure we had solid grounding when we built out our current location 9 years ago.

I have help coming tomorrow.  I'd do some more testing per your suggestion and see what we get.

Thank you Ike and Mike for your response.  Much appreciate.

Link to wav files from channels 1-26

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1X4-6l6ll3QDb-tSHkBXjx87lG1q_P-LJ?usp=sharing

[Matthew White]

I will defer to those more knowledgeable than I, but just eyeballing that screenshot of Pro-Q, I see a 60Hz harmonic series (i.e. 60, 120, 180, 240, 300, 360) with just the odd harmonics showing up (i.e. 60, 180, 300, 420, 540, ...)

I believe this means AC ripple is making its way into the audio path.

Cheers,

-mtw

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[Ike Zimbel]

No, that would be 120Hz. It sounds like a grounding issue. Ron make sure that the console frame has a connection to the 0v audio connection. Your console will have the barrier strip power connections, I believe. Try connecting a piece of wire from the 0v terminals to the 1/4” chassis ground bolt which should be near the power connections. 

   ~Ike Zimbel~

   Wireless frequency coordination specialist.

   Manufacturer's Representative

   Radio Active Designs (Canada)

       ~416-720-0887~

FCC:WRBX645

   http://www.zimbelaudio.com/wireless-frequency-coordination/

On Apr 16, 2025, at 7:01 PM, Matthew White <m...@vne.net> wrote:



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[Ron Flack]

@MTW appreciate your response, thank you.

@Ike I have tried that both ways.  There was no 0v connection when we got the console so we tried that with no resulting difference.  I'm going to pursue some of the suggestions you and Mike suggested this afternoon when I'll have some assistance.

@Mike As you suggested some of the modules have been swapped out.  After our first round of testing we took the most functional modules and put them in the first 26 positions.  We were careful to relocate the bus wire based on the module destination.  Also I tracked the doc below to make sure our grounding jumpers were positioned correctly.  We've given up on getting on 40 channels functional.  If we could just get the first 26 working so we can mix from our tape machine I'd be satisfied.  

 

[Morris]

Are you by chance in NY? I was called to work on a console once with terrible noises, turned out to be interference from a cell tower pointing directly into the studio. Added sheets of galvanized steel to the rear of the chassis and it reduced the interference to a usable level. They ended up having to build some serious shielding outside the studio

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[Ike Zimbel]

A valid point. I’ve dealt with a few similar issues, although I’ve yet to see it in a whole console. Another thought: Where are the power supplies in relation to the desk? They should not be directly under the desk as the mains transformers can induce hum into the bussing. If they are under the desk, you should be able to see/hear the hum levels drop as you move them away from the desk. 

   ~Ike Zimbel~

   Wireless frequency coordination specialist.

   Manufacturer's Representative

   Radio Active Designs (Canada)

       ~416-720-0887~

FCC:WRBX645

   http://www.zimbelaudio.com/wireless-frequency-coordination/

On Apr 17, 2025, at 8:34 PM, Morris <hey.m...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Matt Walsh]

Hi guys--

Just to second Ike's point, I've had some noise issues in the past that were solved by moving the PS and the computer, which was sort of under the desk. It was the kind of thing where c combination of factors was making a lot more noise. Also, Greg Norman and I ran some copper from the console ground lug to the ground at the electrical service. After messing with that, we were able to basically eliminate all noise. 

Except when someone puts their phone on the master fader.

Best,

Matt

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[Ron Flack]

@matt 

Your comment about adding a direct ground cable from the electric service box to the console might be something!  We actually installed a sub box to service the control room just prior to getting the console.  I was advised that I most likely wouldn't need an additional grounding rod but that might be exactly what I need to do.  Thank you for jumping in.  Much appreciated.

@Ike

The power supply for the Neotek is in our machine room in a rack that is shared by our Phantom focus CPU (Carl Tatz installed it to support our monitoring system).  They are roughly 24" apart.  Are you suggesting the approximation between the desk and a CPU is the issue or would the same potential exist between the power supply and a CPU?

We have added multiple Furman regulators (Furman M-8X AR 15A Voltage Regulators)  from the sub panel.   The desk is run from its own regulator and on its own 15 amp circuit.  I thought this would be enough to keep everything in our power grid happy and quiet.  I thought wrong, but feeling hopeful with he information you all have shared with me.  Thanks again.  

[ik...@zimbelaudio.com]

We both meant proximity to the desk. I'm not familiar with the CPU unit, but, in my experience it's unlikely that it could be radiating noise into your power supply.

I don't recall seeing if you ever told us what level this noise is appearing at. Do you have a figure? On an Elite, I like to see the noise floor on the mix bus >-90.00dBu.

Do you hear it when the monitors are at a good working level (say ~80-85dBa), or only if you crank the monitor pot wide open.

      Besides the previously mentioned WiFi routers, and range extenders, other things that I have seen radiate noise into consoles (also besides cell phones...) are USB and other computer cables, an old school quartz lamp with a transformer mounted in the base (and sitting on the meter bridge, so I could see what I was doing while troubleshooting a noise issue that suddenly got worse around nightfall...) Basically anything that ain't an audio cable. Do you have powered monitors sitting on the meter bridge? A powered sub underneath? These should be shielded, but sometimes the shielding is focussed on their own electronics inside the box and not the outside world.

~Ike Zimbel~

   Wireless frequency coordination specialist.

   Manufacturer's Representative

   Radio Active Designs (Canada)

       ~416-720-0887~

FCC:WRBX645

   http://www.zimbelaudio.com/wireless-frequency-coordination/

 

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From: neote...@googlegroups.com <neote...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ron Flack <rjames...@gmail.com>
Sent: April 21, 2025 10:50 AM
To: Neotek <neote...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Neotek] Notice all Neotek Elite Noise Detectives

 

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[Ron Flack]

I’ve attach a link to a screenshot of the noise profile -55db is what is shown on a typical channel.  There are some channel w/ higher levels but most land about like this… 

Ron Flack

REALGREY Records LLC

+1 (330) 546-2049

On Apr 21, 2025, at 11:08 AM, ik...@zimbelaudio.com wrote:



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