Neotek Series 1 - replacement alternatives for duncan faders

[A-Stream Productions]

I have a 24 channel, 8 bus series 1 with the old original duncan slideline faders. It's from 1978 with bus wires. The console works perfectly but every month or so I need to replace a worn out or glitchy fader. I'm thinking to replace the whole lot with something new and better. What would be the best alternatives for this? I assume I'll need to drill new holes in the faceplates no matter which faders I choose and I'm willing to do that.

I'd love to hear some options for brand new replacement faders that are easy to install and reliable.

I'd be very interested in hiring help from anyone on this board who could come to my studio in LA and do the upgrade as well.

Henrik

A-Stream Productions

[Brian Roth]

After I hit "send" I realized I sent only to Henrik and not the entire
list.....


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: [Neotek] Neotek Series 1 - replacement alternatives for
duncan faders
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2020 19:19:05 -0600
From: Brian Roth <bri...@brianroth.com>
Reply-To: Br...@BrianRoth.com
To: A-Stream Productions <astreampr...@gmail.com>

IIRC, those faders are each mounted onto their own individual metal
plates, so having new plates fabricated is something to ponder.

Somewhere, I probably have ancient Duncan catalogs/spec sheets....but
that is my own "Twilight Zone" to locate....lol! Those data sheets have
the mechanical specs for mounting.

The high priced choice would be Penny and Giles.

TKD is an alternative that seems quite decent. Those showed up
"rebranded" with a different label in more recent Elan desks.

Bri

[Chris N.]

My Series 1E (ca. 1985) has Alps faders, IIRC. Another option. They seem pretty decent.

Chris

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[Brian Roth]

Indeed, Alps and Panasonic are (were?) other options.

Bri

[g]

You are correct about the facia for the Duncans having different hole spacing than the ones for Alps or P & G faders.
Alps and P & G 3220 faders use the same facia.
greg

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[Rohan Ross]

Jim Williams of audio upgrades in Van Nuys is used to upgrading all manner of things especially consoles.

[A-Stream Productions]

Thanks everyone for helping out. The TKD faders look like an interesting alternative. Maybe they are somewhere in between ALPS and P & G quality-wise. I think I’m going to order a couple of CPA-7000’s and try them out.

I’ll report back how it goes!

[Chris N.]

Please do. My Alps units are going on 35 years now. Some will definitely need to be replaced at some point...

On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 2:10 PM A-Stream Productions <astreampr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks everyone for helping out. The TKD faders look like an interesting alternative. Maybe they are somewhere in between ALPS and P & G quality-wise. I think I’m going to order a couple of CPA-7000’s and try them out.

I’ll report back how it goes!

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[Pat Jones]

A hair off topic here but if I were replacing all of my Elite faders I’d strongly consider Toft’s FaderMate system. A bit more expensive I’m sure but it would be incredible to have a modern automation system. Not sure if it would fit in a Series one?

[hall...@gmail.com]

Resurrecting this thread because I'm embarking on a Duncan fader replacement for my 16-channel Series 1.

I have 16 spare Alps faders (with plates) that I am considering using as replacements (photo attached)... are any of you still using these faders without problems? I'm considering cleaning/reconditioning these and installing them, but I'm a little wary of their age. Alternatively, I'm looking into TKDs and P&Gs, though they've gotten pretty pricey. Anyone using those with success?

Related topic- does anyone have a good source for decent quality (wide) plastic fader caps?

[Mike S.]

Hi, You can use P&G or Alps K faders, until few years ago Neotek
(Div. Of Sytek) use Alps K faders or 8100 series P&G

Sincerely

Mike Stoica

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[Chris N.]

I bought a set of P&G 3000 series faders for my Series 1E 12x8x2 desk (originally with Alps faders) from Luke Manquen (Dale's son) earlier this year.

I think Luke said they were discontinued back in 2017 but had some older stock. He may still have some available.

Yes they weren't cheap but these are likely the last faders this desk will have.

Maybe see what Luke has available? manco...@gmail.com

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[Mike S.]

Hi. I have only four $ 40.00 was motorized, we cut the motor off.

We have many P&G 3200 used need cleaning.

Mike

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[Matt Syson]

As with so much 'old desk' related it all depends on how well it has been looked after for the majority of the years. Clean air environment, regular movement of all pots, faders and switches (a couple of end to end rotations a week say) and must controls should fare pretty well. INTENSE use (control room monitor pot!)  and 'favourite' channels plus dirt are the real killers. I am currently looking at a40 year old Harrison MR3 now in it's 3rd control room. It's last was actually a domestic living room for 25 years but apart from initial crunchy switches and pots practically all channel paths are in decent condition. Some dead LEDs in bargraphs which will be fun to source and even more fun to fit but otherwise remarkably good.

Hate the manual by the way, close to illegible and distinctly maintenance unfriendly. PSU 'failed' lights are a bit bizarre too. A light comes on to tell you your desk won't work is distinctly odd, as if the lack of signal isn't enough clue!

Matt S

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Virus-free.www.avg.com

[hall...@gmail.com]

Figured I'd follow up... Wound up replacing my Duncans with new Bourns faders (PTS series- https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PTS01-11L-103A3?qs=9fn1gpisni6JOtJN8BO5oQ%3D%3D). I wanted something new that wasn't going to be too complicated to source in the US and wasn't going to break the bank. These have been great so far and feel solid, nice taper, etc... the only thing that took some time was locating new/old fader plates with the proper mounting holes. Still looking for 8 more of those to replace my sub sends.

If anyone needs clean plates drilled for Duncans, I've got lots!

[chet]

Hello, Curious if the Bourn faders are still working out ok?

I need to replace 14 series one faders. About to buy the Bourns but concerned that fader plate sourcing / drilling could be a relative hassle for a rookie.  Appreciate any thoughts. 

[Chuck Anderson]

I have Alps faders in my Series II from 1984. I've replaced a couple but most of them work just fine.

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[Alex Hall]

Yep... the Bourns have been fine so far. They've been in service one year, so I can't comment on longevity, but I've been happy with them.

If that is a photo of your desk, it looks like your plates may already be the right type to accept a new 100mm fader without drilling/searching/fabricating.

Cool Langevin-style caps!

[Chris Madl]

Yeah it’s the humble 8 channel 6 out. Oh man if drilling etc wasn’t needed that would be great! I have very limited tech kinda skills, but was hoping I could manage. Just ordered some tonight, shall see.  Thanks much for mentioning.

On Oct 30, 2024, at 6:51 PM, Alex Hall <hall...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Mike S.]

Hi

Alps Alpine K fader is better than Bourns ,and they are all the same 100mm travel and 120mm mounting like the Bourns.

Still have to drill the holes for 120 because Duncan is around 130 or 135 mm, find someone with a milling machine for precision 

We done this at Neotek several times

Your 0 (zero) dB in the fader will be off few dB

Sincerely

Mike Stoica

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[Chris Madl]

An update Fwiw, the Bournes screw holes do  cuz line up perfectly with the plates. Unfortunately, the shaft is exceptionally long where the fader cap attaches.  ie; my funky Langevin style Rolo knobs will not fit on top. So it’s either obviously return the Bournes, get Alps or?  Or, buy all new fader caps.  

 

I am curious about the Alps Alpine K faders, Mike.  If they would line up well with the plates (like the bournes) they’re significantly more expensive however. Maybe another option? 

On Oct 30, 2024, at 7:59 PM, Mike S. <sytek....@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Donald Put]

Trimming the shaft should be easy enough.  Is there something else in play?

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[Donald Put]

If you really want those knobs, then trimming the shaft should be easy enough.  

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[chris]

You think? I've considered but not sure how to approach that. The metal is too thick to clip/cut with a hand type tool, and cutting via a machinery blade option could create a potential mess dusting wise etc I'd imagine.

But no they'd seemingly fit, and work fine otherwise.

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[Donald Put]

A good pair of side cutters or tin snips would make quick work of those.  A Dremel would also work but you'd have to cover the fader so metal "dust" wouldn't get in.  Personally, I'd get new fader knobs and call it good.

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[Mike S.]

You need a small bench drill press to make the new holes and countersink . the countersink will be right on the edge of the slot. I done this few times at Neotek 

Or check with some machinist they they do that in a mill realty quick 

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[Alex Hall]

Yea... I went down this wormhole and wound up ordering new fader knobs that fit the T-style levers.

[chris]

Hey Alex,

Surprisingly tricky to find fader caps that fit that T style. Maybe mention where you found yours if you could. Alps are pricey!

Thanks

On Nov 10, 2024, at 9:15 PM, Mike S. <sytek....@gmail.com> wrote:



You need a small bench drill press to make the new holes and countersink . the countersink will be right on the edge of the slot. I done this few times at Neotek 

Or check with some machinist they they do that in a mill realty quick 

On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 7:02 PM Donald Put <idyl...@gmail.com> wrote:

A good pair of side cutters or tin snips would make quick work of those.  A Dremel would also work but you'd have to cover the fader so metal "dust" wouldn't get in.  Personally, I'd get new fader knobs and call it good.

On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 4:58 PM chris <chetde...@gmail.com> wrote:

You think? I've considered but not sure how to approach that. The metal is too thick to clip/cut with a hand type tool, and cutting via a machinery blade option could create a potential mess dusting wise etc I'd imagine.

But no they'd seemingly fit, and work fine otherwise.

On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 7:53 PM Donald Put <idyl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Trimming the shaft should be easy enough.  Is there something else in play?

On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 4:48 PM Chris Madl <chetde...@gmail.com> wrote:

An update Fwiw, the Bournes screw holes do  cuz line up perfectly with the plates. Unfortunately, the shaft is exceptionally long where the fader cap attaches.  ie; my funky Langevin style Rolo knobs will not fit on top. So it’s either obviously return the Bournes, get Alps or?  Or, buy all new fader caps.  

 

I am curious about the Alps Alpine K faders, Mike.  If they would line up well with the plates (like the bournes) they’re significantly more expensive however. Maybe another option? 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neotekusers/CAEG4K-jq-Osw4mF1PvW9zC%2BbsKThhMrUVY6fBPX-zzx3BCeMuw%40mail.gmail.com.

[chet]

Thanks for mentioning, Alex. took a few transit months actually, but finally got the alps fader caps from reichelt. 

I’m certainly not a tech (can barely solder an instrument cable w/o a mess), but.. I might try to do this job carefully on my own for the 14 Faders due to budget restraints, seemingly not too challenging to swap.

Can anyone kindly chime in so far as the correct solder points on these new Bourns Faders vs the ostensibly orig neotek faders? (the bourns pdf is kinda cyptic, to me)

I put numbers on the apparent 3 solder points in this pic to help with clarity fwiw. I imagine they may have similar corresponding solder points on the faders, but of course, wanna be as certain as possible before hand.

Much thanks.

C