introduction

[Scott Evans]

Hi all - I just joined this group so I thought I'd quickly introduce myself. I have a small studio in Oakland, CA where I mostly work on loud rock music, and I've done some writing for Tape Op for the past 4-5 years. In years past I've had analog-centric studios but my current rig is all ITB.

 

I've been considering a small Neotek console to use as a tracking mixer, and for summing & some mixing duties. I probably only need about 16 inputs, certainly no more than 24, and 8 busses; and I need a smallish form factor since my control room isn't very wide. (in fact I think the Series III that Shirk Studios just sold in Chicago would have been perfect.) It'd be a big change from pure ITB but I think it'd be enjoyable and (one hopes) sonically worthwhile.

 

I'm still getting educated, learning what's out there and what kind of care & feeding is required, so I'll be lurking and maybe asking some dumb questions.

 

Anyway, hello!

scott

 

 

--

 antisleep audio | oakland ca | www.antisleep.com

 

[Ike Zimbel]

Hi Scott,
Welcome aboard! Consoles do come up for sale here from
time-to-time, but keep your eye on the usual listings. This is a good
place to ask about how a certain consoles stack up, and details of how
they work and get wired in etc. You won't regret adding a Neotek into
your set-up...they're great consoles!
Stay tuned.
Best,
Ike

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--
Ike Zimbel,
Zimbel Audio Productions
Toronto
416-720-0887

"Studio House Calls". Repairs and upgrades to analog audio equipment including: AMEK, dbx, Neve, Neotek, MCI, Soundcraft and more. Authorized Warranty service for Allen & Heath, Clear-Com, Drawmer, Soundcraft, SPL and Yamaha. RF frequency co-ordination services.
www.zimbelaudio.com

[pete]

Welcome aboard scott!

i've been working with (and on) my series IIIc for 3 or 4 years now. I'll never get rid of it.... ever. mixed many albums / EPs / singles on it. I think it sounds great. as for maintenance, it's like an old car... easy to get in the engine compartment to work on. Parts are readily available and a breeze to get in and out of the thing. you've also got this google group here full of guys who really know their way around these things.

good luck!

pete andrews

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[Scott Evans]

Thanks guys -- you're reinforcing the reasons Neotek seemed like a solid choice. Keeping my eyes peeled for the right one to come along…


scott

[Jim]

Greetings,

Welcome to the list Scott!

IMO, look for a Series 2. The S1/1E (which I have and sort of prefer)
is physically huge in comparison due to the layout for any given
channels count. The S3 starts to incorporate way too much (sometimes
problematic) primitive logic and undue complications in the quest for
modernization and work pace. The 1s and 2s have short, direct signal
paths with minimum component circuits. Many relatively easy upgrades and
very easy to service. I don't have much personal experience with the
Elite, Elan, etc.; I'm sure Ike and others can chime in on those.

Be SURE you find a "plug in" type console (where each module pulls
out from the top just like a Neve, API, etc.) which ever series you
choose. In the convoluted genius of someones' brain, a *hard wired*
version was conceived that is the worst service nightmare I can imagine.

Plenty of experience on the group here, I'm sure any questions you
have can be answered. Hope you soon become another member of the Neotek
family.

Regards, Jim

[Clete Baker]

> Be SURE you find a "plug in" type console (where each module pulls
> out from the top just like a Neve, API, etc.) which ever series you
> choose. In the convoluted genius of someones' brain, a *hard wired*
> version was conceived that is the worst service nightmare I can imagine.

I'll speak up in defense (sort of) of the "hard wired" versions of the
Neoteks. They were built not for studio use, but for road use, where
banging connectors around on a daily basis is the norm. They have one huge
advantage ... they don't have any connectors to go whacko on you. It's
true that they ARE a pain inna arse to service, but mysterious sorts of
outages simply don't happen on 'em due to needing a good contact cleaning
or a board reseat.

.... a proud "hard wired" 1E owner here. ;-)

--
Clete Baker | cle...@bltd.com
Studio B, Ltd. | ph 402-455-3000
Omaha, Nebraska | fx 402-455-8269

[Stephen Shirk]

My series 3 was hardwired. It was so solid I hardly ever had to service it. I think we pulled two modules over the course of seven years of almost daily use. And when we did it was not THAT bad. My tech who did the rehab job on the desk before I ever started using it might have different feelings on this issue. :)

Just one guys opinion.

Stephen Shirk
ShirkMusic.com | HearYa.com
...sent from my mobile.

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[Daniel McNeill]

I'm the one who bought Stephen's hard-wired series 3 and I drove it in a conversion van from Chicago to Austin, I had it running sessions the day after I got back, didn't have to pull a single card. I think its safe to say there's some pro's to having a hardwired console :)

-Daniel

>> <mailto:neotekusers+unsub...@googlegroups.com>.

[Jim]

Greetings,

Well, you (I) learn something new everyday! Guess it should have been
obvious, but I never considered the hard wire units were specifically
built for road warrior use. Makes a lot more sense now. Thanks everyone!

Regards, Jim

[Scott Evans]

Hah! The console I wanted to own. (Though it may be a wider than I'd like for my space. I'm hoping to find something that's closer to 4' wide. Is that unrealistic?)

 

I appreciate the discussion on modular / not. Seems like modules would be a lot easier for mod projects since it's easier to pull out a guinea pig or two and take it home (or wherever) to hack on. Anyways I'll keep it in mind depending on the maintenance history of the candidates I find.

 

 

scott

[Kris w]

Run away as fast as you can!!! The Neotek list is filled

with nothing but murderers, crack dealers and psychopaths!!

Especially that Ike Zimbel with his stereo bus insert mod

forged from Satan himself.

     HA, just kidding, couldn't help myself. The Neotek list is

very awesome, I had a 36input Élan, and although I don't have it

anymore, the List is where I bought it, from a great guy and 

everyone has been super helpful and accommodating, thats 

why even know I haven't had the board in a few years I still

subscribe and check out what everyone is talking about from

time to time. For what its worth, although the Élan was really

great, if I were to buy another one I think I'd shoot for a series

one, two, or three since for my workflow (Ampex 2" 16 track

tracked and mixed to 2 track) the Élan's and Elites are just

to feature laden, and the earlier boards are much more straight

forward, which helps me concentrate more on the music, plus

all I really want is to make a quick/easy headphone mix and 

send a few things to the plate reverb and with something like 

an Elite I feel that along with doing that I could also make a pot

of coffee and launch a satellite into space. Also for what its worth,

from the experience I've had with a bunch of different used/vintage

consoles over the years, I wouldn't hesitate to snap up a hard 

wired board since in my opinion some of the biggest/most irritating 

problems with older used consoles is intermittency caused by

fatigued/worn out connectors, simply put, I've used so many great older 

consoles (my Élan included) that would exhibit some weirdness 

until you gave the panel a gentle tap.      

     Anyways, good luck!

-Kris

P.S. Ikes stereo bus insert mod is pretty rad, you should ask

him about it!

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[Scott Evans]

While I'm at it - thoughts on something like this recent-model Elan II?

 

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gearslutz-secondhand-gear-classifieds/942622-neotek-elan-ii-table-top-stand.html

 

How do they compare with older s1/2/3 consoles? Are they modular?

 

No patchbay, which is probably a good thing in my case because it saves width and I already have racked patchbays. It's also nearly new so no recap and everything probably works. Are there mods that folks typically do out of the box?

 

 

 

thanks!

gse

[Eric Ambel]

that thing is mighty cute!

I miss my Elan.

Ours is currently on loan to another studio.  We have an ’85 Calrec in our place and it’s great sounding but we are trying to move our studio

and if we do we’ll get the Elan back in there.  I know this isn’t the most helpful post but I’m glad to be in the group and

wanted to say so.

E

http://www.cowboytechnical.com

[Adam Manoucheri]

Hi Scott,

Welcome to the list!  If you need any info on a neotek, I dare say this is an even better resource than sytek!  Some great folks here with a huge pool of knowledge.

Ah, don't sweat the size, I fit my 28 channel Series II with patchbay into my control room that's barely 12 ft wide!  It's pretty snug and cozy... ;-).  But on a functional level, I find it to be the best of both worlds, using it in combination with my ProTools system...there aren't a ton of features there, but I don't really need them in my setup.  The mic pres sound good and the eq is very musical and useful, I find I tend to use in the box eq only when I need something super precise, or are going for something totally different for coloration.

I won't comment on the hardwired/non-hardwired issue since mine is torn apart right now and I'm fixing a myriad of Molex connector issues...but there are pros/cons to both.  I personally find it nice to be able to pull modules easily if I need to...

Good luck in your search, whatever you end up with I think you'll be happy with the Neotek choice!

Adam Manoucheri

Crossroads-Atoll Productions

Sent from my iPhone

--

[Ike Zimbel]

That's a nice desk. One thing regarding the hard-wired vs. modular
thing...the Elite & Elan use ribbon cables instead of a motherboard, so
most of those intermittent connection issues don't apply. The older
Elites had a motherboard just for the four master modules and it was
problematic, but there's a fix for that.
best,
Ike

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[Scott Evans]

Apparently the console in question is the actual Elan II TT that's pictured on the Sytek site:
http://www.sytek-audio-systems.com/products/consoles/elan2-tt/

16 inputs, 16 busses, no direct outs other than the pre-EQ (doh) inserts. The Neotek mentions "Elan II modules" but I don't know if that means individually removable channel strips or not.

Also I guess the Elan EQ's have fixed Q. I don't imagine that's easily moddable?

Perhaps a call to Mike is in order. This could be a good possibility for me, though the "hold out for a Series 2" comments…

(And Adam, my control room is 12' wide too; I could conceivably do a 6' wide desk but I'm not crazy about the sonic & layout implications.)


scott

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[Mark Sampson]

Hey all,

Does anyone have an Excel template for labeling the stock Elite TT patchbay? I would be much obliged to anyone who could help me out!

Mark

[David Swenson]

Me too on the patch bay template.  Many thanks in advance.

David Swenson

m...@makoche.com

cell: 701-471-7557

Makoche Recording Company

208 North 4th Street

Bismarck, ND   58501

701-223-7316

www.makoche.com

1-800-NDSOUND

[Neil Thomason]

Gents,

Here are a couple of templates.  I actually use OpenOffice, the freeware version of MS Office, so I have attached two files, one for Open Office, and one for Excel.  I can't vouch that the Excel version will line up perfectly on the patch bay after printing out, it may need a slight adjustment.  The Open Office version is good to go.

So a head start, if nothing else.

Cheers.

Neil Thomason

Head Gap

[Ike Zimbel]

Hi Scott,
I believe the "Bus Out" is your Direct Out, as the Bus amps are on
the channel modules. The "Q" adjustment is a pull-out switch on the
desks that have that feature (like the Elite) so it /might/ be possible
to add a separate switch per band to add that feature...but I would have
to compare the circuits. I'm pretty sure that the Elan Eq is the same
circuit, minus the switches.
best,
Ike

[plu...@gmail.com]

Hi Scott,

We purchased a late model 24x24x2 ELAN II TT from Mike earlier this year and is actually the one pictured on the Sytek homepage.

All ELAN II's are 24-buss with the channel count determining physical output since the BUSS OUT summing lives on the channel strip itself. The BUSS OUT also acts as the channel's POST-EQ/POST-FADER/DIRECT OUT from either the small or large fader path. Sort of unique in the small format console world and very usable.

The INSERT points are indeed PRE-EQ and unbalanced, typical of most NEOTEK's I've encountered.

Ike is correct in stating that the EQ circuit is of similar design to that of the ELITE and from my understanding may be modified to include a "Q" option of sorts. Also be aware that the ELAN II is equipped with a fixed point HPF as well. In my world it's not a big thing since we work in a hybrid-type environment and can easily band-pass OR FILTER via the DAW or hardware outboard.

During our console search I was offered a few ELITE's, ELITE II's, a SERIES II and at least six variants of the SERIES 1. Came damn close to purchasing Steve Slates ELITE before it was on the open market but elected to go with the ELAN II TT for a number of reasons. It's compact footprint, simple workflow layout and audio quality being the primary factors. It just fits into our hybrid system so well. Fact is that the ELAN II doesn't have a lot of the "big boy" features however it sounds freaking great, the producers/artists dig it and the price point is more than reasonable. We are not regretting the purchase at all.

Cheers,

John Breglia
PM-HEAD AUDIO
THE UPTOWN THEATRE
Napa, CA

>>> <mailto:neotekusers+unsub...@googlegroups.com>.

[Jim]

Greetings,

John, Thanks for the info about your console, but more
importantly.....how was you/your home/facility affected by the
earthquake? Hoping all is well.

Regards, Jim

[plu...@gmail.com]

Hi Jim et al,

Thanks for the many inquires regarding our status here in Napa after the quake on Sunday. I'll keep this somewhat brief as it's way off topic though Neotek and Sytek gear was directly involved.

As you already know the bay area was hit by a rather powerful earthquake around 3:20AM this past Sunday morning. It was a 6.1M with the epicenter located in the brackish delta marshes less than 5miles SW of town. The main event lasted about about 35seconds with a progressively intense and relentless east to west roll. This quake did not exhibit a typical multilateral shake as much as it did a wave like action which in turn resulted in the unique nature of the damage done here in the valley. Anything on an east-west axis took the brunt of the motion and upheaval.

The old downtown and outlying rural areas west of town got hit hardest. Damage was wide spread and as of yesterday morning, over a 120 buildings had been red tagged, with another 300+ receiving yellow tag status. We've lost a number of historic buildings in the downtown core, mostly brick type construction without seismic retrofit. Thankfully and quite miraculously, no one was killed nor sustained life threatening injuries.

Personally, my house, studio and business all got spanked...

Here at the house, we lost most of our glass, ceramics, collectables and a pair of large screen TV's. The fridge was moved 3ft into the kitchen, a Studer A80RCmkII rolled more than a dozen feet down the front hall and a few trees/rose bushes are all now resting at a 30degree angle due west! I had just gotten home from work at the Uptown and was "unwinding" on the couch when the dogs became agitated and then went absolutely mental crazy; the german shepherd actually tried to get me outside. Then the event hit with such force I was thrown off the couch onto the floor. I've lived in big snow country, in hurricane country, in tornado country and volcano country but I've never experienced anything like this before. It was the sound and feeling of helplessness though that I will never ever forget... I thought a 747 was crash landing in my yard and I was pinned to the floor!

The new studio at the theatre has yet to be completed (again thankfully) so I had set up a temp mix room here at the house. It took a good hit which toppled all the LED monitors (trashed), AVID controller (trashed), near/midfield speakers/stands (cosmetic), a few racks (cosmetic) and a number of instruments (all safe) that were uncased at the time. Amazingly, the new Neotek ELAN II came through completely unscathed and looked like an island standing mightily above the fallen. I anticipate minor resources to get the room back online.

The Uptown Theatre was by far affected the worst. The marquee has pulled from the facade and about a fifth of the restored ceiling mural now lies on stage and first dozen rows of the orchestra. My PA hang, lighting trusses, tech, production offices, green rooms and kitchen remain intact and no worse for wear. The 1937 building itself is constructed like a bunker, all reinforced concrete and pinned beam pockets. During the renovation six years ago we installed full retrofit systems which included multiple I-beams above the ceiling structure tying the outer walls together as well as acting as our motor mounts for the PA, truss and chandelier hangs. Upon thorough inspection, it appears the structure is solid and sane and we are good to carry on with repairs. Our red tag will be removed by Friday and hope to be hosting events here again in October.

The theatre's new studio facilities in the building next door didn't fair as well. We have multiple cracks in the exterior brick walls and unreinforced poured subfloor. Both interior and exterior glass is all but gone, the four main ceiling trusses have pulled from the structure and the brick faced front wall of the control room/studo has buckled onto itself... no bueno. At this point it's red tagged, the engineers are coming in next week to assess and we're unsure of what the future holds for that structure.

So it's onwards and the beginning of a new chapter for Napa...

Regards and cheers,

John Breglia
PM/Head Audio
www.uptowntheatrenapa.com
Napa, CA.