New Neotek Elite owner.

[Erik]

Hi.

So I've just received my Neotek Elite 48 channel form 1987. I've bought it from Austria and had it shipped to Sweden where I live.

The guy I bought it from got it from Chicago.

The plan is to go thru the whole console as it look pretty beat up and my guess some "tech" guy been doing some stuff with the channels cause there are really bad solders and cables that don't look original.

I got a bunch of spare channels and they don't look the same.

In the photos you can se som extra cables and electrolytic capacitors that aren't on the spare channels. Do anyone of you have any idea what that can be? 

Thanks

Erik

[Ike Zimbel]

Hi Erik,

The 2.2uf cap on the back of the module is a sign that it is a
Elite-II module. That was part of their Odd/Even channel grounding
scheme which I've never been a big fan of. The other wires on the back
of that module look like they might be repairs for circuit board traces
that were damaged when parts were removed. The green wires on the back
of the other modules look like a factory mod that I haven't seen before,
but it seems to be to re-purpose the switch that they connect to. I
don't have a module here so I'm not entirely sure which switch that is.
R-90 and R-91 are +/-18v power supply resistors, so the wires soldered
to them are either repairs as mentioned above or else they may be
tapping power supply on to the Molex header directly below them, again
for some mystery mod.

Best,

Ike

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Neotek" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to neotekusers...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:neotekusers...@googlegroups.com>.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
Ike Zimbel,
Zimbel Audio Productions
Toronto
416-720-0887

"Studio House Calls". Repairs and upgrades to analog audio equipment including: Aurora Audio, dbx, Neve, Neotek, MCI, Soundcraft and more. RF frequency co-ordination services.
www.zimbelaudio.com

[Erik]

Thank you Ike.
Don know if its a repair the green short cables. Looks like they did some custom thing there?
As for the other green cables I think its some re-routing thing going on like you mentioned. It goes from Source and Monitor fader bus switch to R905.

[Erik]

Me again.
So I've been looking some more at the console and to be honest, all I want to do is just take every single channel out and rewire the whole thing. There's some missing wires and I guess bad connections.
The thing is I've never in my life worked on a console with a patch bay and when I look at it, it freaks me out :)
There's a whole lot of cables and I'm not sure I know how to put it all back together if I unplug every cable.

How hard is it when you sit down with everything in front of you?
My plan is to have an analog studio with a 24 track tape machine with external effects.

When I look at the schematics there is a whole lot I don't find there but can bee seen on the patch bay.
How do I start to learn how a patch bay works?
Thanks
Erik

[Ike Zimbel]

Hi Erik,

For starters: Do NOT take every module out of the console at once.
I wish folks would stop doing this...it does make it a lot harder to put
back together and it also makes it more likely that you will miss some
little detail that may be specific to your console.

Next: If you have never used a desk with a patch bay before, here's some
helpful information: The patch bay is roughly equivalent to all of the
jacks that you had on the rear panel of your previous console(s) (I may
be making a leap here by assuming that you've actually owned a console
and not just a computer...). So, there are Line inputs (some desks have
Mic inputs, some don't), Tape Sends (Bus out) and Insert Send and Return
jacks for each channel, they're just in the patch bay instead of on the
back panel. Then, there are Mix Outs (may or may not have Insert
points), Aux Sends, Monitor Outputs etc. as well. Where it can get
confusing is that all of the patching for the devices that you would
normally patch in/out of, such as outboard gear, Tape Machines
(Converters), monitor and headphone amps etc. ALSO appear on the patch
bay. All of these connections are made via the EDAC connectors on the
rear of the desk. So, for example, there will be an EDAC (or two,
depending on the size of the desk) dedicated to all of the Sends to the
recorder (Bus outs 1-26) and another one dedicated to the Returns from
the same. These are then "normalled" through the patch bay jacks to
their specific channels... There is also an EDAC dedicated to all of the
Master section patching.

Let me know if this helps.

Best,

Ike

[Robert Stevens]

When I went through my console, I pulled all the cards on the right side cleaned em up then did the same on the left.  I found it much easier to put the cards back in going from left to right on the right hand side and right to left on the left hand side.  Trying to stick cards in between 2 seated cards takes an act of congress and chews up your hands and pulls IDC connectors off of wires.  So I agree, do not pull all the cards at once (for reference purposes) but I feel it easier to put them back if you go linear in one direction away from the master.

[Robert Stevens]

I also made a point to put any cards I knew I was going to need to work on later near the end of the console on the right side.  My goal, like you, was to get 24 working channels.  Thankfully I was able to do so pretty quickly but ultimately was left with some 8 cards that needed significant work.  But now anytime I need a project, I can easily pull a card from the right side and tinker with it without messing up my main signal path. Lately, I mostly fight with my Studer A800.  But I almost have it working great now too.  23 of 24 channels working as expected.

[Erik]

Thank you so much Ike for your answer.
Yes I've work with an analog desk before not just a computer ;) I guess it will be more clear to me when I sit down and really look at it. For now I've just given it a quick look.
Ok so no pulling all the channels at once. The reason I wanna do that was to get rid of all the cables I won't be using. As I said it's a 48 channel console with two frames bolted together, the left side is 28channels and the rest in the right side. All the cable that goes to the right side is still in the 28channel frame and I thought it was unnecsesarry to leave it there but maybe its not.

Im really thankful for all of your help guys and I will take a deeper look in to things and surely come back with some more questions :)
Thanks
Erik

[Ike Zimbel]

Hi Erik,

Can you send a picture of your desk? I'm not sure if I'm reading
this correctly, but are you saying that you have a 28 ch. frame with 48
ch worth of wiring in it? Yes, you can remove the extraneous wiring
(but don't throw it out!) if that's the case but you will definitely
want to know what's what before you cut any wires.

iz

[Erik]

It's two frames screwed together. One frame with 28 channels and one with 20.
I've separated the two and now got two frames. But, the frame with 28 channels still got all the wiring that goes to the 20 channel frame. If you understand what I mean :).

[Robert Stevens]

Oh my!, you are way more adventurous than I.  Where is the Patchbay?

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Neotek" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/neotekusers/1R2_rmYGIWI/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to neotekusers+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Erik]

Haha you think :)

> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to neotekusers...@googlegroups.com.

[Jim]

Greetings,

Eric, I'd really suggest you do not disconnect everything all at once.
That is a sure way to end up with major problems. The best way to go
about understanding the signal flow is to follow a block diagram, rather
than a schematic. I'd try to figure out exactly what is working and what
isn't prior to doing much anything. Start at the power supply, be sure
you have the correct voltages IN and OUT. Then proceed to the console.
Set it up in the simplest configuration, test each section (mic amps,
line amps, busses, etc.) work your way from inputs to outputs and take
good notes of what you find. Take your time and document everything.

Regards, Jim

[Jim]

Greetings,
Eric,

Wow, that's pretty wild. Do you have any idea of how they actually
interfaced the two sections? Do they share the busses, auxes, and
output/2mix/etc. sections?

Regards, Jim

[Jim]

Greetings Eric,

Well, I most certainly would NOT start un-wiring things until I
understood the signal flow and how the two portions were integrated.

I'm just making a wild guess that the additional section goes only to
the patch bay, which would somewhat simplify things if true. That is
just a guess however and means nothing until we get it figured out.

Did you get any documentation about the particulars of this project?

Regards, Jim


On 2/14/2017 9:58 AM, Erik wrote:
> Haha you think :)
>
>
>

[Erik]

No documentation I'm afraid :(

I know that the two sections are connected with idc flat cable just like all the other channels are connected. Then there's EDAC connectors witch Im guessing goes to the patchbay.  I think the whole console is wired like if it was just one massive board.

I will attach some photos, don't think you see to much but always something :)

[Erik]

Here's the connections between the two sides.

[Jim]

Greetings Eric,

Good pix, but really no way to tell what is going on. Is there any
chance of contacting a previous owner to get info on it? Anything would
be a help, even if incomplete.

I'm not super familiar with the Elite series, so perhaps Ike or
someone else can make some better suggestions.......

Unless you can figure out what is going on signal path wise (are the
other channels connected back somehow to the master section, etc.), it
***may*** be an idea to carefully decouple the two sides (taking very
complete notes, pictures and marking all cables/connectors) to see if
the left side functions in the correct manner by itself. Again, I'd be a
bit hesitant to do this until the actual connections can be figured out.
BUT, it may be the easiest method of finding out what is working on the
left section.

Good luck!

Regards, Jim

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Neotek" group.

> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to neotekusers...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:neotekusers...@googlegroups.com>.

[Ike Zimbel]

Which side does the patch bay go on, the 28 ch side, or the 20 ch side?
Those EDACs look like they carry all of the lines that would go to the
patch bay. The ribbon cables carry all of the bussing, power, logic etc.

iz

On 2017-02-14 4:05 PM, Erik wrote:

> Here's the connections between the two sides.
>

[Erik]

He's really hard to get a hold on but I've emailed him and asked for more detailed info regarding function.

The idc cable runs from the first channel to last. Then the there's connections to the master from both the 28 channels and the 20. The. Patchbay is located to the left next to the 28 channels.

[Greg Norman]

Hey,

Just jumping in here late.  I would recommend thoroughly testing the console before ripping anything apart.  You might have already done both, but, if you don’t understand the signal flow, first establish that something is wrong before trying to fix it.  As said before, those jumpers could both be repairs and mods that add funcitonality (direct outs on the first set of 24 channels for example). 

If you can, find someone locally who’s familiar with the board to go over it’s functions with you so you know what to expect.  Most boards that are 36+ channels will have two frames bolted together, which could look like a frankenstein mod, but would actually be normal.  I don’t know what’s up with yours, but I wouldn’t jump to conclusions.  For reference, doing this in the blind, without pinout documentation, or a manual for that specific board is a headache for even an experienced tech.

Good luck!

 

Greg Norman

Electrical Audio Recording

773.539.2555

www.electricalaudio.com

Equipment We Sell

On Feb 15, 2017, at 12:24 AM, Erik <magnuss...@gmail.com> wrote:

He's really hard to get a hold on but I've emailed him and asked for more detailed info regarding function.

The idc cable runs from the first channel to last. Then the there's connections to the master from both the 28 channels and the 20. The. Patchbay is located to the left next to the 28 channels.  

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Neotek" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neotekusers...@googlegroups.com.

[Erik]

Thank you Greg.

I haven't really done anything yet except separate the two frames. 

After listening to you guys I've decided to leave it as it is for now and go thru the whole console first and testing everything and go from there.

Its an old habit of mine when something looks modified I just want to get to the bottom of things and start all over again. If its restoring a car or a console, it doesn't matter :) 

But since I'm not familiar with this particular board I'm listening to you guys.

I guess I have some time to spend with just the patchbay because there are a whole lot of cables that's loose and not labeled or anything.

Trying to figure out were those goes will be ha hazel I guess. 

Im gona work my way forward from channel one and onwards. 

Thanks

Erik

[Erik]

Ok guys.
I know understand that I first need to learn this console before doing any troubleshooting.
I haven't got a clue how this works.
I'm trying to plug in a mic to see if I can get a signal but I'm lost at once ;)

Wanted to share how it looks when I turn the power on. In my opinion it looks odd.

https://youtu.be/c8rJmT9-0OM

[Ike Zimbel]

A couple of Peak lights staying on mean those channels have problems. First thing to check is that their ribbon cables are on correctly and not displaced by one pin.
It's not uncommon for different channels to come on with their Mutes in different states. Not really an issue.
What do the meters look like? It's normal for them to bounce around a bit and then settle down. If they stay peaked, that's bad.

Ike Zimbel,
Zimbel Audio Productions

416-720-0887
www.zimbelaudio.com
Sent from my vintage iPhone

[Erik]

Ok. It's only on one channel that the peak light stays lit.
Will check the cables on that one. Also on one channel the mute button doesn't work.

As I said I really don't understand how the console works (yet) but I'm doing my best to figure it out.
I mentioned before that I've never before worked with a mixer that had a patchbay so this is all new to me.
How do I start checking every channel? I have a mic in channel one and when I talk in to it the peak light responds so I know something goes in to the channel. What I don't understand is how to get the sound out to a speaker and to the meters on the channel?

[Neil Thomason]

Erik,

Try as follows and you should see the mic input appearing on your master stereo fader:

At the top of the channel strip, make sure the SUB 1-16 button is NOT pressed.

Down the bottom next to the small black fader, make sure none of these buttons is pressed EXCEPT for the REV switch.

Make sure the channel is not MUTED (no red LED).

Push up the large white fader and you should see the signal present on the stereo master meters.

BTW doing all this with some kind of tone generator is much easier than holding a mic, but whatever works.  Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Neil Thomason

Head Gap

Record - Mix - Master

Ph +613 9480 6280

M 0423169170

www.headgap.com.au

[Erik]

Thank you so much.

Will try that tomorrow. Now I have to sleep :)

I tried swapping places with channel two and three and the peak light was still lit on the same module. The problem moved with the channel if you know what I mean. If I press down the bus button the light goes out.

One more thing I noticed is one module when I tap on the frame near by that channel, the peak light goes on every time I tap some close to it.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

[Ike Zimbel]

All this AND:

Make sure the master fader is up. Make sure the VU meter select is set
to L-R.

iz

On 2017-02-16 5:33 PM, Neil Thomason wrote:
> Erik,
>
> Try as follows and you should see the mic input appearing on your
> master stereo fader:
>
> At the top of the channel strip, make sure the SUB 1-16 button is NOT
> pressed.
>
> Down the bottom next to the small black fader, make sure none of these
> buttons is pressed EXCEPT for the REV switch.
>
> Make sure the channel is not MUTED (no red LED).
>
> Push up the large white fader and you should see the signal present on
> the stereo master meters.
>
> BTW doing all this with some kind of tone generator is much easier
> than holding a mic, but whatever works. Good luck and let us know how
> you get on.
>
>
> Neil Thomason

> *Head Gap*

> Record - Mix - Master
> Ph +613 9480 6280
> M 0423169170

> www.headgap.com.au <http://www.headgap.com.au/>

>
>
>
> On 17/02/2017, at 8:58 AM, Erik wrote:
>
>> Ok. It's only on one channel that the peak light stays lit.
>> Will check the cables on that one. Also on one channel the mute
>> button doesn't work.
>>
>> As I said I really don't understand how the console works (yet) but
>> I'm doing my best to figure it out.
>> I mentioned before that I've never before worked with a mixer that
>> had a patchbay so this is all new to me.
>> How do I start checking every channel? I have a mic in channel one
>> and when I talk in to it the peak light responds so I know something
>> goes in to the channel. What I don't understand is how to get the
>> sound out to a speaker and to the meters on the channel?
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "Neotek" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> send an email to neotekusers...@googlegroups.com

>> <mailto:neotekusers...@googlegroups.com>.

>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Neotek" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to neotekusers...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:neotekusers...@googlegroups.com>.

> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Ike Zimbel,
Zimbel Audio Productions

[Erik]

Any ideas about the peak light blinking when touching the channel?

Den fredag 17 februari 2017 kl. 00:03:52 UTC+1 skrev ike:
I > All this AND:

[Toby Mattsson]

Isn´t there a touch feature on a screw at the V.U to change between Peak & Average readings?

/Toby

> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neotekusers...@googlegroups.com.

[Ike Zimbel]

There is, but this isn't that. Some of the all metal Elite frames like
the one Erik has have pretty tight clearances for the modules and on
those desks I have encountered an issue wherein the edge of the little
sub card that has the Mute switch and the Mute and Solo LED's can make
contact with the frame. This usually causes the Mute LED to burn up, so
that's something to check on the module with no Mute led. The blinking
peak light might also be related to that. If not, I would check the
ribbon cables next. Peak lights going haywire is usually power supply
related. The simple fix if you have modules touching the frame there is
to put a strip of Kapton (expensive) or PVC (cheap) tape along the front
edge of the lower frame rail.

iz

[Erik]

Thank you once again Ike. Really appreciate it! Too bad you're not located in Sweden then I would hire you in an instance to go thru the console.
Internet is fantastic and all but it's easier in real life :)
Will check up on what you said about the ribbon and contact to the frame.

[Erik]

Its really confusing cause I can't get any signal on the VU meters. 

Im guessing there's a bigger problem that I can't understand.

I've pushed down the REV button but nothing happens. 

Also I was looking under my frame and found a black flat ground cable. 

Its bolted on the frame but goes nowhere! Where is it supposed to go?

I was thinking that maybe not having the two sides connected could cause some problems? How does it work? Could you have just one channel plugged in and have that working or every channel has to be in the chain?

[Neil Thomason]

Erik,

Yes you should get signal to the master section even if not all channels are connected.  If you post some pics from top to bottom of the channel you have a mic plugged into, and the same for the master section, maybe we can help some more.

As for the grounding strap, I am away from our Elite currently but from memory it originates on the master PCB.

Neil Thomason

Head Gap

Record - Mix - Master

Ph +613 9480 6280

M 0423169170

www.headgap.com.au

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Neotek" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neotekusers...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

<jord.JPG>

[Neil Thomason]

Message from Ike, who is currently having trouble posting to the list….


>
>
> Hi Neil,
>
> On your desk it terminates at the master motherboard, originates at
> the power supply input panel (which I believe is similar to one I posted
> pics of here, a while back), and the same bolt that fastens it to that
> panel becomes the external ground stud on the back panel. Neotek stopped
> using this arrangement at some point, which IMHO was a mistake.
>
> iz

>
>
> On 2017-02-19 4:15 PM, Neil Thomason wrote:
>
>>
>> As for the grounding strap, I am away from our Elite currently but
>> from memory it originates on the master PCB.
>>
>>
>> Neil Thomason

>> *Head Gap*

>> Record - Mix - Master
>> Ph +613 9480 6280
>> M 0423169170

>> www.headgap.com.au <http://www.headgap.com.au/>

>>
>>
>>
>> On 19/02/2017, at 8:15 PM, Erik wrote:
>>
>>> Its really confusing cause I can't get any signal on the VU meters.
>>> Im guessing there's a bigger problem that I can't understand.
>>>
>>> I've pushed down the REV button but nothing happens.
>>> Also I was looking under my frame and found a black flat ground cable.
>>> Its bolted on the frame but goes nowhere! Where is it supposed to go?
>>>
>>> I was thinking that maybe not having the two sides connected could
>>> cause some problems? How does it work? Could you have just one
>>> channel plugged in and have that working or every channel has to be
>>> in the chain?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Neotek" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>> send an email to neotekusers...@googlegroups.com

>>> <mailto:neotekusers...@googlegroups.com>.

>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> <jord.JPG>
>>

>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "Neotek" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an email to neotekusers...@googlegroups.com

>> <mailto:neotekusers...@googlegroups.com>.

>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

[Erik]

Thank you guys.
So I managed to get some readings from the master vu.
What I have to do is press down A at the black fader and then it goes thru aux 1.
I get good signal on left but on the right meter it only moves a little.

It looks like my neotek is a custom console.
Here is the info.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12629985/Neotek_Schematics.zip

It's from 87 but then someone else bought it and had it modified by Mike Stoica to elite 2 specs.

I'm thinking of having it restored to original. What do you guys think?

[Ike Zimbel]

Hi Neil,

On your desk it terminates at the master motherboard, originates at
the power supply input panel (which I believe is similar to one I posted
pics of here, a while back), and the same bolt that fastens it to that
panel becomes the external ground stud on the back panel. Neotek stopped
using this arrangement at some point, which IMHO was a mistake.

iz


On 2017-02-19 4:15 PM, Neil Thomason wrote:

>

> As for the grounding strap, I am away from our Elite currently but
> from memory it originates on the master PCB.
>
>
> Neil Thomason

> *Head Gap*

> Record - Mix - Master
> Ph +613 9480 6280
> M 0423169170

> www.headgap.com.au <http://www.headgap.com.au/>

>
>
>
> On 19/02/2017, at 8:15 PM, Erik wrote:
>
>> Its really confusing cause I can't get any signal on the VU meters.
>> Im guessing there's a bigger problem that I can't understand.
>>
>> I've pushed down the REV button but nothing happens.
>> Also I was looking under my frame and found a black flat ground cable.
>> Its bolted on the frame but goes nowhere! Where is it supposed to go?
>>
>> I was thinking that maybe not having the two sides connected could
>> cause some problems? How does it work? Could you have just one
>> channel plugged in and have that working or every channel has to be
>> in the chain?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "Neotek" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> send an email to neotekusers...@googlegroups.com

>> <mailto:neotekusers...@googlegroups.com>.

>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> <jord.JPG>
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Neotek" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to neotekusers...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:neotekusers...@googlegroups.com>.

> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Ike Zimbel]

Actually you may be in luck! Just the other day my wife asked me to pick
up a few things at this Swedish store...IKE...something...;-)

[Ike Zimbel]

Actually you may be in luck! Just the other day my wife asked me to pick
up a few things at this Swedish store...IKE...something...;-)


On 2017-02-18 8:53 AM, Erik wrote:

[Ike Zimbel]

Erik,

If that is connected to a bolt on the frame, it is an external
ground cable to go to a studio's central ground point. It's not
necessary for it to be connected at this point (and often is not
required at all).

I'm not clear on whether or not you are seeing anything on any meters.
Are the LED meters for the 2-mix working? Those should always show you
signal that is on the stereo mix bus. The VU meters have a row of
selector switches on the top of the Stereo Master module that determine
what signal you are monitoring on them. To see the 2-Mix you should have
the top switch, labeled "Mix L-R" down and all of the others up (they
should be interlocked, but in case they're not). Note that the LED
Channel meters are meant to show the Bus signal, so to see those, you
have to select and pan each channel to its own bus, AND select "Mic" on
the black fader source select switch and push the black fader up.

Are you monitoring any audio while you test? If you don't have EDAC #1,
which is the i/o for the master section (usually...) wired up yet, you
should be able to use a couple of TTL-XLR adapters and come out of the
"CR Output" jacks in the patch bay. AND, you will need to have the
Monitor pot (big one with red cap) turned up AND you have to be
monitoring the 2-mix. The 2-Mix is the default when all of the Tape-1,
Tape-2, Tape-3...CR Extra switches are in the UP position (IOW there's
nothing selected there). These switches are directly above the monitor pot.

I'm also attaching the manual, such as it is...

BTW, my wife asked me to pick up a few things at IKEA, so maybe I can
pop by after I'm done there...

iz

[Erik]

Thanks Ike.
The door is open when you're done at IKEA ;)
I'll have the coffee ready :)

Ok i have it wired like this.
1. Mic in A-Line input of modules.
2. To get anything on the needle VU I have to press down A button next to the black fader and then press AUX 1 at the AUX module.
Then I get signal at the needle VU.
BUT... Its only strong signal at the left needle, the right barely moves.

Thanks

[Ike Zimbel]

I'm pretty sure you will find that the "Aux 1-2" switch is selected on
the VU meter select switches. In that mode, Aux-1 reads on the left VU
and Aux-2 on the right.

iz

[Erik]

Yes that's correct :)
Thats the only way I can get signal on the needle VU's.

If I do like you said "Rev button pushed down and nothing else except for the mix L-R" nothing happens on the needle VU.

[Neil Thomason]

Erik some pictures would be very useful at this point.

Neil Thomason

Head Gap

Record - Mix - Master

Ph +613 9480 6280

M 0423169170

www.headgap.com.au

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Neotek" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neotekusers...@googlegroups.com.

[Ike Zimbel]

Erik,

You really need to let us know that you have followed ALL of the
advice that we've given you. Otherwise it's hard to know what to suggest
next. For example, a few posts back I mentioned that the master fader
needs to be up, but you haven't confirmed that it is. I once went
back-and-forth with a guy for a week before it came out that he hadn't
pushed the master fader up.

Take some time to read the manual. Learn to use the oscillator, it can
be a great tool for verifying the console.

Ike

[Erik]

I understand I may seem a bit confused and I guess I am :)

I have read the manual a few times now and things do get clearer but there are a lot to learn I recon.

Yeah Ike I've done all those things you said.
The master fader (red one) is up and the fader on the channel. I've pushed down the rev button but nothing happens.

Later today I will record a short video showing what I do.
Thanks
Erik

[Ike Zimbel]

Are these just plain faders, or does your console have an automation
system? If it does have automation, there may be a whole separate power
supply and set of electronics that needs to be set up before the faders
will pass audio. If that's the case, you can still test the desk with
the black faders...Leave the Rev button up, and select "Mic" in the for
the source for the black fader.

iz

[Robert Stevens]

Solo buttons are also your friend when faders are not passing audio for one reason or another. When I get confused, which is often, i just hit all the solo buttons  on a channel and see if I can get sound.  If I can't usually means I have frigged up my patch cables at the bay or have my mic plugged into a different channel in the studio than I thought I plugged it into.

Rob

[Erik]

I guess this isn't original?
The faders are from the 90's and the console 87.

[Ike Zimbel]

Those look fine. They're not automated, so that's not the issue. If
there is a 2-Mix insert point in the patch bay, I would try patching
over it (just patch from Send to Return...you did get some patch cables
with the desk, yes?). Also, make sure the Mix trim pots are at 12:00
o'clock...they're on the Stereo Master module.

iz

On 2017-02-21 1:34 PM, Erik wrote:
> I guess this isn't original?
> The faders are from the 90's and the console 87.
>

[Brian Roth]

maybe it is original.

TDK faders were a good choice...and maybe now as well?

Bri

[Mick Wordley]

Hey Brian

Sent you an email … looking for an MCI console …

Clues ?

Mick

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Neotek" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neotekusers...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Mixmasters Studio

Mixmasters Pro Audio

"Less Feathers....more Chicken"

Mick Wordley

mi...@mixmasters.com.au

www.mixmasters.com.au

+ 61 8 8278 8506

+ 61 4 2885 7167 (0428 857 167 local)

SKYPE: "micktalk" 

www.mixmasters.com.au

"All the worlds major problems can be solved with either oyster sauce or backing vocals '"  ...Brian Eno

[Erik]

Hi again.

I've been trying to get to the bottom of things with my console.

What I've found so far is that it was custom built to "Magno". Mike remembered that it was made for video production.

Since then it has been sold and I think it has gone thru some modifications since then.

I took some pictures of the first channel and maybe one of you guys can tell me if there's something you notice.

[Ike Zimbel]

Interesting. I haven't seen some of those mods before. A few questions:

1) Does the black wire solder to a different pin on subsequent modules?
If so, that may be a replacement for the scheme wherein the bus is cut
in the ribbon cable with a loop of white wire coming down to the
module's bus input. If that's the case, then your modules are position
specific in the desk.

2) I'm curious about the no-solder joint in the lower right of the first
and third pics.

3) I'd like to see a pic of the top of the module so I can identify
where those extra resistors are going. The 2.7M are definitely going to
the inverting input of two op-amps, but I need to see which two.

4) None of these look like they should cause the module not to route to
the 2-Mix.

iz

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Neotek" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to neotekusers...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:neotekusers...@googlegroups.com>.

> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Robert Stevens]

That black wire is the same mod on my Elite II modules.  The direct input resistor is missing and in it's place is a 100ohm resistor to ground.  That cap is also the same cap that was moved from the front of the module to the back for no apparent reason.  

> <mailto:neotekusers+unsub...@googlegroups.com>.

[Erik]

Thanks once again.

Took some new photos.

Looks like it's been real hot at, R413 and R419.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_3hPyGzPAGaelI3UU5XUWtxUVE

[Erik]

I forgot to ask whats the deal with the cable from P14 to R142 (P6)?

On the spare channels I got with the console there's nothing on P14, bus RTN.

[Erik]

really left in the blanks here. Had an email conversation with Mike Stoica and as far as he knows the console was made in 1995 for film production. Then a guy named Joseph Kasko bought it and had it rewired, no modifications. Then the guy I got it from bought it from Joseph and also did no modifications.

How can this be true? I mean on the PCB cards it says 1987. Maybe the same cards were used over a period of time?
thanks
Erik

[Eric Ambel]

Very good chance they were using parts that they had purchased earlier.
Many businesses do. Fender and Gibson were notorious for it.

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Neotek" group.

> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neotekusers...@googlegroups.com.

[Ike Zimbel]

That date is when the cards were designed, notnecessarily when they were
manufactured. At this point, I have completely lost the thread of what's
happening/not happening with your desk. Have you ever verified that the
master section is passing signal?

iz

[Erik]

You're right Ike, lost track here for a bit.
No I don't get signal at the master VU when I plug in a mic or any signal for that matter. Only way I can get signal is when I press down B at the monitor fader and send it thru AUX.

The reason I want to get to bottom of things with my console is because I want to know what schematics to look at and see how the thing is wired.

[Jim]

Greetings Eric,

Sadly, there may not be a schematic that precisely matches your
console. Many Neoteks were built to order and differed in details from
the "standard" formats from minor or major ways. It seems that
documentation describing these details was rarely if ever written up
(and if so, usually did not travel on with the console to subsequent
owners).

So, you may have to use standard Elite docs and work out those details
specific to your console as you go through it. Do you have any Elite
schematics to at least start with?

Regards, Jim

[Erik]

Hi Jim.
I have some more info now. It was made for a film company called magno and I have the schematics for that particular console. The console then was sold and rewired for mic/line instead of line/line.
That's all that's been done to it. That makes things easier.

To get back to the main question I still don't get any signal to the stereo VU. It can go up a bit but then it's completely dead again. It can move just a tiny bit but that's all. But if I send it thru aux it works fine.

[Neil Thomason]

Erik,

You said a while back you would post a video, not sure if you did, but if you can post a detailed video showing how you are running a mic input into the console we may be able to help further.

If you can do this, please pan slowly over the patch bay, down the channel strip, and also the master section.  As someone mentioned a while back, all it takes is one button in the wrong position and you will lose the signal from the master bus.

 

Neil Thomason

Head Gap

Record - Mix - Master

Ph +613 9480 6280

M 0423169170

www.headgap.com.au

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Neotek" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neotekusers...@googlegroups.com.

[Erik]

Hi guys me again :)
Been quite busy times!

Ok so no video but I promise I will make one.
But I want to explain exactly how I plug in a mic.
When I bought the console I got a lot of cables with xlr connectors to edac that goes in to the patchbay.
So I've plugged in a mic to channel one and then out to "input of recorders" in the patchbay. Also thru xlr/edac.
I get signal in to my computer and everything sounds good.

I have no buttons pressed down on the channel strip except bus selector (4) because Im sending the signal thru that channel to my computer.
So thats what I've done.
The VU meters do move but barely. It makes no difference if I change what the meters to show. Whatever button is pressed on the master section it moves the same.

Also I can't figure out how to use the LED meter on the channel. If I understand it wright they should show the signal from output from multitrack?

Thanks
Erik

[Robert Stevens]

Do you have +35volts light lit up on your power supply.?  That would make the LED vu meters not work and the backlights on the analog vu meter also not work.

You are correct that if you have a signal coming back on the line inputs (tape returns) the LED vu meter for that track should light up.  You can also press bus switch on channels 1-26 and monitor what you are sending out to the bus on the LED vu meter for each track.

If I get a chance, I will record you a short demo and post it.

[Robert Stevens]

Here is my lame ass attempt at an instructional video:

https://youtu.be/K41XpzEzJeE

Don't laugh too hard at me.

Rob

[Robert Stevens]

I also said something that is not exactly correct regarding sending signal to the big faders.  Let's see who all the pedantic folks are that will correct me :).

[Robert Stevens]

Here is another one on how to make channel vu's light up from microphone input:

https://youtu.be/Dkae5Dh4GYc

[Erik]

Thank you so much Robert!
Really appreciate all the help. All the lights are lit on the power supply and I measured all the voltages on the back and everything seems fine.

This may seem like a stupid question but how do you connect speakers to the console ? 😬
Do you connect them to the patchbay? I don't have edacs connected labeled "speakers".
I do the monitoring thru the computer. This is not a thing I am going to do in the future since I want to record to tape and not using a computer.

Thanks
Erik

[Robert Stevens]

There is control room out pair on one of the elcos.  On mine it is on elco 11:

Here is a patchbay markup sheet that came with my console:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B7fr0a3kDDExWGM1aThQQmpGQ00

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Neotek" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/neotekusers/1R2_rmYGIWI/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to neotekusers+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Robert Stevens]

Actually, that is link to all my docs.

The one with the markup is here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7fr0a3kDDExS0ZJa3JGQ0xuREE

[Robert Stevens]

You ever wish you could edit one of these:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7fr0a3kDDExX3p4Q2VaOWVPa00/view?usp=sharing

Computers are hard.

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Robert Stevens <stevens.ro...@gmail.com> wrote:

Actually, that is link to all my docs.

The one with the markup is here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7fr0a3kDDExS0ZJa3JGQ0xuREE

[Robert Stevens]

One other thing I keep forgetting to mention is that the LED VU meters have 2 modes.  Peak and RMS.

If you are in peak mode, that may explain why the VUs are barely lighting up.  There is a little red light on each meter.  If it is on, you are in peak mode (this is the default mode when the console comes on).  Press the VU button on the master section to switch to RMS mode and PEAK to send them back to peak.  There may also be a silver screw on each one of your meters.  Touching that screw will toggle between the modes for each individual meter.

[Erik]

Thanks once again. Will check later tonight. The thing is that nothing happens at all at the led meters, only the needle meters are showing any sign of life ;)

If I send the signal to one of the aux channels I get good signal at the needle vu.

[Erik]

Ok so I got the LED meters to work and the needle meters.
Quite embarrassing actually. Don't know why, but the ribbon cable going in to the motherboard (power supply) was not connected so no power to the meters.
One question though, is the Needle meters only supposed to show soloed channels?

Thank you all for the help.

[Robert Stevens]

In the master section, there is a row a switches that determines what the analog vu meters monitor.  If you have it set to monitor, it will monitor solos.  In monitor mode, it basically monitors whatever is coming out of the control room speakers.   It can also monitor aux's and LR among other things.