Re: [neonixie-l] Digest for neonixie-l@googlegroups.com - 24 updates in 4 topics

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westdave

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Mar 23, 2017, 2:37:55 PM3/23/17
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yeah? but i still like the Lixies, and do not have the equipment to make them, 
so a purchase is preferred (yep a born sucker, just awaiting) aspersions?
noun
1.
a damaging or derogatory remark or criticism; slander:
casting aspersions on a campaign rival.
2.
the act of slandering; vilification; defamation; calumniation;derogation:
Such vehement aspersions cannot be ignored.
"theres one born every minute,and two to take him!" P.T .barnum




-----Original Message-----
From: neonixie-l <neoni...@googlegroups.com>
To: Digest recipients <neoni...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 23, 2017 12:49 am
Subject: [neonixie-l] Digest for neoni...@googlegroups.com - 24 updates in 4 topics

Piano Forte <pianof...@gmail.com>: Mar 22 04:14PM -0700

RE:IN18 Blue Dream out-of-production until 2019
 
I reached out to Dieter and Claus, and Claus advised that the IN18 Blue
Dream (PCB & Kit) is out of production until 2019 (!) - any background on
this development?, its a pity since I was about to order a second BD - I
should have ordered a second one last year.when I first had the
inclination.............
gregebert <greg...@hotmail.com>: Mar 22 05:21PM -0700

Just guessing here, but the supply of IN-18's continues to dwindle.
Meanwhile, Dalibor continues to crank-out more tubes, so my crystal ball
says you will see a kit with some flavor of new-production nixies.
Dan Hollis <parkxz...@anime.net>: Mar 22 05:30PM -0700

Greg P <Gregory...@verizon.net>: Mar 22 07:06PM -0700

Buy the PV Electronics Spectrum 18.
 
http://www.pvelectronics.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18&products_id=157
 
Great kit, great support, in stock, direct drive, many case options and way
more features at a much more attractive price point.
 
 
 
On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 7:14:57 PM UTC-4, Piano Forte wrote:
Gene Segal <wave...@earthlink.net>: Mar 22 07:22PM -0700

I wonder if the production stopping is in some way related to
questionable customer service for the Blue Dream?
 
Good to know there are other options out there.
 
 
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Nicholas Stock <nick...@gmail.com>: Mar 22 07:30PM -0700

I'll echo the perceived lack of service too....I've repaired two blue dream
clocks for people as no support was offered..
 
Pete's Spectrum 18 is a great clock for a very good price.
 
Nick
 
Piano Forte <pianof...@gmail.com>: Mar 22 09:43PM -0700

Thanks for the recommendations everyone - I actually reached out to Pete
shortly after the BD discontinuation news, and ordered his Spectrum 18 kit,
PIR and Case last week. He has been an absolute pleasure to work with -
responsive, accommodated special requests and provided a first-rate
experience overall during my first order with him.
 
I ended up losing a tube to gas leakage on my BlueDream, and I attribute it
to the rigid cup-style pin holders that stress the gas seal (1992/02 date
code tube failed after 10 months of service, even leaving it in the same
location). I am afraid to move the tubes around the BD, and Pete's design
solves the pin stress issues (also like the PIR shutoff feature).
 
 
 
On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 7:30:52 PM UTC-7, Pramanicin wrote:
Alic <al...@gmx.net>: Mar 22 10:26PM -0700

It's a pity. It's still my favorite IN-18 clock because it is compact and I like the proportions (the tubes are on the axis of the board).
I was also secretly hoping that the black'n'wood would become available again.
 
Maybe things have changed since.
Also, I don't know what others expect from someone who sells nixie DIY clock kits as a hobby, but on the rare occasions when I had a question or a problem with Claus' and Dieter's clocks, I always received good advice on how to repair it myself.
 
The board of the Blue dream isn't expensive enough to be sent back (especially from the USA) and spend hours on a repair.
 
I never had problems with gas leaks with the nixies I bought from Dieter with the clocks.
One set is from '92 as well.
 
I did have problems with tubes off eBay where the pins were not straight.
"Jeff Walton" <jwalt...@gmail.com>: Mar 23 12:48AM -0500

Agree, Pete is great to work with. Very good customer service!
 
------------------------
 
Did you have a schematic to do the repairs on the Blue Dream?
 

 
Jeff
 

 

 
From: neonixie-l...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Piano Forte
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 11:44 PM
To: neonixie-l
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: IN18 Blue Dream out-of-production until 2019
 

 
Thanks for the recommendations everyone - I actually reached out to Pete shortly after the BD discontinuation news, and ordered his Spectrum 18 kit, PIR and Case last week. He has been an absolute pleasure to work with - responsive, accommodated special requests and provided a first-rate experience overall during my first order with him.
 

 
I ended up losing a tube to gas leakage on my BlueDream, and I attribute it to the rigid cup-style pin holders that stress the gas seal (1992/02 date code tube failed after 10 months of service, even leaving it in the same location). I am afraid to move the tubes around the BD, and Pete's design solves the pin stress issues (also like the PIR shutoff feature).
 

 
 
 
On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 7:30:52 PM UTC-7, Pramanicin wrote:
 
I'll echo the perceived lack of service too....I've repaired two blue dream clocks for people as no support was offered..
 

 
Pete's Spectrum 18 is a great clock for a very good price.
 

 
Nick
 

 
On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 7:22 PM, Gene Segal <wave...@earthlink.net <javascript:> > wrote:
 
I wonder if the production stopping is in some way related to questionable customer service for the Blue Dream?
 
Good to know there are other options out there.
 
 
 
 
<javascript:> Greg P
 
March 22, 2017 at 7:06 PM
 
Buy the PV Electronics Spectrum 18.
 

 
http://www.pvelectronics.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info <http://www.pvelectronics.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18&products_id=157> &cPath=18&products_id=157
 

 
Great kit, great support, in stock, direct drive, many case options and way more features at a much more attractive price point.
 

 
 
 
On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 7:14:57 PM UTC-4, Piano Forte wrote:
 
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<javascript:> Piano Forte
 
March 22, 2017 at 4:14 PM
 
RE:IN18 Blue Dream out-of-production until 2019
 

 
I reached out to Dieter and Claus, and Claus advised that the IN18 Blue Dream (PCB & Kit) is out of production until 2019 (!) - any background on this development?, its a pity since I was about to order a second BD - I should have ordered a second one last year.when I first had the inclination.............
 
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"Jeff Walton" <jwalt...@gmail.com>: Mar 23 12:53AM -0500

I also have a Blue Dream with IN-18. As you say, it is very nicely proportioned. Also, the colon fade and digit fade are among the nicest out there. It is a beautiful clock with lots of features.
 
It's a bit of a pain to program and I have to pull out the manual and relearn it every time I want to do something and have to make notes to remember the settings. Eventually it becomes clear. The documentation with example settings helps a lot. While I have not had any issues with the clock itself, I have lost a couple tubes (originally supplied with Blue Dream) where the tube seals failed and tube went dark. I do blame the pin socket arrangement for applying too much stress but it is certainly an elegant design and layout.
 
In ~2.5 years, I have "refreshed" a couple tubes on the Blue Dream that began to cathode poison, beginning with the "8". My night mode was originally set to dim to 20% and I think that might be too low and hasten poisoning the cathodes if the clock sees any amount of hours, so I increased the dim setting to 40% and have not seen any poisoning for awhile.
 
I do have a motion sensor outlet that powers the clock fully off after 10 minutes of no motion activity, so I think it will help the overall tube life. The internal battery that holds the time and settings is supposed to be good for ~10 years and this is OK to do per Dieter and the latest manual. It does change the start time that date and cathode poisoning prevention occur. The counters for the display functions start when the power is reapplied. So by cycling the full power, on one cycle, the date may show at the top of the hour and on the next motion cycle, it will be different. On mine, the date will show 55 seconds after power turn on time if you set a 55 sec time, 5 sec date display ratio. If you power on and off as I do, you also need to set the cathode poisoning cycle to occur at a frequency that is shorter than the external motion timer or it will not count up long enough to ever digit cycle if the clock doesn't stay on long enough.
 
One thing that would be helpful for repair is if anyone has a Blue Dream schematic that we could keep for troubleshooting. The brains of the clock are in the firmware (protects the design) so it would be nice to at least have an electrical schematic in case parts ever fail and need troubleshooting/replacing. The assembly documentation is very nice but contains no schematic except for a breakout of the DIN connector for using an AUX output. I asked Nocrotec for one some time ago but never got a response. I'd love to add a PIR to the clock instead of the motion sensor outlet to keep the display timers alive.
 
Anyone ever see a schematic of the IN-18 Blue Dream to share? Hopefully, they bring the Blue Dream back because it is really a great looking clock!
 
 
Jeff
 
-----Original Message-----
From: neonixie-l...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alic
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 12:27 AM
To: neonixie-l
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: IN18 Blue Dream out-of-production until 2019
 
It's a pity. It's still my favorite IN-18 clock because it is compact and I like the proportions (the tubes are on the axis of the board).
I was also secretly hoping that the black'n'wood would become available again.
 
Maybe things have changed since.
Also, I don't know what others expect from someone who sells nixie DIY clock kits as a hobby, but on the rare occasions when I had a question or a problem with Claus' and Dieter's clocks, I always received good advice on how to repair it myself.
 
The board of the Blue dream isn't expensive enough to be sent back (especially from the USA) and spend hours on a repair.
 
I never had problems with gas leaks with the nixies I bought from Dieter with the clocks.
One set is from '92 as well.
 
I did have problems with tubes off eBay where the pins were not straight.
 
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Alic <al...@gmx.net>: Mar 23 12:02AM -0700

I know I received a link to schematic for the black'n'wood which I downloaded, but I have to check when I'm home for the one of the blue dream.
"Morten Mønsted" <m...@mcb.dk>: Mar 22 03:40AM -0700

Hi,
 
I'm building a nixie clock "from scratch", designing the circuit (with
great inspiration from other projects) and the PCB etc. Just for my own
entertainment, not for selling or anything. I'm a hobbyist, not a
professional :)
 
I want to have the power supply on the board, and was inspired by
threeneuron's high voltage supply, which can be seen
here: https://threeneurons.wordpress.com/nixie-power-supply/hv-supply-kit/
 
My problem is that I can't source the inductor L1 with the correct
combination of *100uH* and *1.4A.* The closest I can get are:
 
1. 68µH / *1.4A*
2. 220µH / *1.4A*
3. *100µH* / 1.0A
4. *100µH* / 1.6A
 
Now my question is, would I be able to use one of the four above mentioned
inductors, without switching other parts? On the page linked above it says
that you can increase the output power of the PSU by using an higher
current inductor, but it also says that it's necessary to change some other
parts like resistors and a capacitor.
 
My thoughts so far:
 
1. I could go with inductor #4 and not change other parts, because I
know I won't ever get over 3 watts total (but I'm not sure if this is safe
or not)
2. Go with inductor #3, not changing other parts, knowing that I won't
use up the current capacity (but again, is that really safe?)
3. Use inductor #1 or #2 — but again my lack of knowledge plays in, as I
have no idea how significant the 100µH is, and would would happen if you
increased/decreased it.
 
I know I can probably get exactly the correct inductor from the right
supplier, but I have to stick with a few who don't charge an arm and a leg
for shipping (to my country), whilst still selling in low quantities. Also,
I'm hoping to learn something here, by not simply throwing money at the
problem!
 
Any help is much appreciated!
Nick <ni...@desmith.net>: Mar 22 03:47AM -0700

A higher-current-rated inductor of the same uH value and same type will be
fine - inductor #4 is likely as good as the original...
 
Nick
"Morten Mønsted" <m...@mcb.dk>: Mar 22 03:54AM -0700

Thanks for your answer.
 
All right, it does make sense, my concern was with the rest of the circuit
only being designed for 1.4A. But I guess the key here is that it's "up to
1.4A", which I will never reach, even thought the rating is higher.
 
On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 11:47:14 AM UTC+1, Nick wrote:
Tomasz Kowalczyk <ten....@gmail.com>: Mar 22 04:25AM -0700

You're right. The current rating for an inductor is an "up to" value, as it
states the maximum current you can pass through that part without
saturating the ferrite core. A saturated inductor in a boost converter will
heat up and the converter won't reach designated voltage.
Btw. I've read somewhere, that for boost converters you shouldn't use
inductors with "o" shaped core or any closed loop core inductors, as they
are much easier to saturate. I've done only very short tests, and it was
true - but maybe the peak current of the inductor was too high, I can only
measure average, which was 3x lower than that coil max specified current.
Can anyone confirm if it is possible or not to use closed loop ferrite
cores for converter coils?
 
 
W dniu środa, 22 marca 2017 11:54:15 UTC+1 użytkownik Morten Mønsted
napisał:
threeneurons <threen...@yahoo.com>: Mar 22 11:07AM -0700

The coil issued with the kit is a Bourns RLB9012-101. All major
distributors (Mouser, Digikey, ...) are currently out of stock, and back
ordered to May. That coil is a tad overkill for what the supply is rated to
output. The RLB0914-101 will also work to more than the posted maximum
specs. So will a RLB9012-082 (82uH).
 
"Morten Mønsted" <m...@mcb.dk>: Mar 22 02:24PM -0700

Thanks for your answer :)
 
As I read you, I could use either RLB0914-101 or RLB9012-082 instead?
 
I just checked and I can get the RLB0914-101 from my supplier of choice!
 
On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 7:07:33 PM UTC+1, threeneurons wrote:
threeneurons <threen...@yahoo.com>: Mar 22 03:37PM -0700

Yep, when I saw the stock situation, I order some 82uH parts, and tested
them, in excess of the recommended load. Worked great. I had already tested
the RLB9014-101, way back when, but routinely ordered the RLB9012 part due
to the extra safety margin.
 
On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 2:24:48 PM UTC-7, Morten Mønsted wrote:
Manuel Azevedo <azevedo...@gmail.com>: Mar 22 01:01AM -0700

I've been thinking of making something myself like this, though smaller.
Neo-pixels on their way...
Acrylic: studying my options...
"JohnK" <yen...@internode.on.net>: Mar 22 06:49PM +1030

I am really surprised that no-one has mentioned the you-know-who saga.
 
John K.
----- Original Message -----
From: Nick
To: neonixie-l
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock
 
 
On Wednesday, 22 March 2017 09:13:31 UTC+4, gregebert wrote:
I think a lot of kickstarter campaigns are started by people who have a good idea, but dont have first-hand experience taking a concept into production. It's NOT easy, and it's not cheap.
 
 
Every time I finish another clock, my wife asks me why I dont sell them. My usual answer is that I make nixie clocks for fun and I do it at my own leisure; once I start selling them it's a business with financial & schedule constraints. I get too much of that from my day-job (well, it's more like a day+night+weekend job....).
-------------------
Regarding that guy's sob-story about his Prius......I own 2 of them and they are excellent, trouble-free cars.
Regarding that guy's sob story about Chinese PCB manufacture....I've done several boards there and they are excellent quality.
 
 
Agreed on all fronts - the sob-story is completely irrelevant - he could still have pledged to return the money over time and if I was a backer, I'd be really piss*d about this. His own/personal problems/stupidity are nothing to do with his backers.
 
 
I also use a variety of Chinese PCB manufacturers - PCBway is my current favorite for prototypes - and I've never had a problem with them, assuming you give them decent Gerbers in the first place :)
 
 
I've commercialised a few items over the years, but I gave up being an EE professionally many years ago as it's a tough old world. Bring a product to market requires a lot of careful planning and risk assessment, both commercial and technical - you shouldn't even consider Kickstarter until you have a few working prototypes, i.e. Kickstarter is not a way to realise your technical fantasies!
 
 
Anybody thinking about this, just do a lot of upfront reading first and, please, talk to people who've done that & been there - experience is everything: Accept that the risk should be all yours, not your backers', Be honest, communicate well and regularly (surprises are generally a BAD plan), build in contingency (that's not the same as profit, by the way!). Backers accept properly managed risk - some projects are bound to fail - no-one accepts stupidity or dishonesty.
 
 
NIck
 
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Nick <ni...@desmith.net>: Mar 22 01:24AM -0700

The guy is dead. We've been over it far too many times - nothing to be
gained revisiting it.
 
Nick
Dylan Distasio <inte...@gmail.com>: Mar 22 01:04PM -0400

No funds were ever returned, and I think you can see from his own writing
that he has no real issue with what he did. Apparently, screwing over his
backers was a learning tool for him.
 
I have backed a ton of projects on Kickstarter, and fully understand that
things can go wrong and that ultimately a project may not work out
(although in all my backed projects, his was the only one where I
encountered a total loss combined with fraud). I think that all most
backers are looking for is a well planned out best effort, and transparency
throughout the process. In this case, there was zero transparency until
the end, irresponsible use of funds (criminal in my mind), and a lack of
remorse. If he had really cared about what he had done, and learned from
the experience, he would be refunding his backers over time.
 
Anyways, for obvious reasons, I personally will never do business with him
again. Luckily, it was a relatively minor loss financially, but the
overall experience leaves a bitter taste.
 
Mich...@aol.com: Mar 22 05:11PM -0400

Agreed.

How about the failed kickstarters though?

Still waiting forever for my TIKO.
What's worse is that they came back and had everyone pay an additional $55
for shipping and that isn't going to be refunded either.

Michail
 
 

In a message dated 3/22/2017 1:24:48 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
ni...@desmith.net writes:
 
The guy is dead. We've been over it far too many times - nothing to be
gained revisiting it.
 
 
Nick
threeneurons <threen...@yahoo.com>: Mar 22 11:00AM -0700

Only list the ones that ready to go out the door. I have parts & boards for
a lot more.
 
On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 3:51:48 AM UTC-7, Tomas Begley wrote:
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westdave

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