Questions relating to nixie manufacturing

[HikariFaith]

I have a few niche questions related to the making of nixie tubes I can't seem to find definitive answers to anywhere. I have a feeling someone here would be able to help me figure them out.

1. I understand that the cathodes need a certain amount of separation to prevent arcing, but has anyone tried alternative methods of cathode production in an effort to make that space smaller? The two that immediately come to mind are sputtering tungsten coatings on an insulating material and the inverse of that, which is coating the back of the tungsten wire with an insulating material. I had also been wondering if it would be possible to prevent arcing some other way.

2. When working borosilicate during the tube construction, how hot do the components inside get? I'm thinking both in terms of components directly touching the heated glass and those not touching (including indirectly). I'm asking to figure out what thermal tolerances I should look for in materials used to make a nixie tube.

3. How thick are the walls of a borosilicate nixie tube? Ideally, I'd have as specific an answer as possible.

4. Why haven't new manufacturers of nixies made any top-view nixies like the IN-12?

[J Forbes]

I'll answer the easy question first. The reason they don't make end view tubes is that it costs a lot of money and take  an incredible amount of work to make tubes. So, they need to make the most of the tubes they make, and this means being able to get the most money for them. So they have to be beautiful, large, expensive tubes. The character size in an end view tube is limited, vs that in a side view tube, so they only make side view tubes. It's what people will pay lots of money for.

[n1ist]

The H tube is end-view...

[HikariFaith]

My initial thought had been that maybe it was too difficult to justify the IN-12-type body with side-view nixie bodies being pretty much just glass tubes with the other components inside of it, but that still didn't quite explain why no one has even approached that yet. I would've thought that once they had the easier form factor down they would've gone right to the more difficult one that's similarly as popular. Maybe it has to do with the IN-12 being more widely available?

On Sunday, December 1, 2024 at 11:07:48 AM UTC-5 J Forbes wrote:

[Senk Ju]

Currently, there are essentially only two companies producing new Nixie tubes at a reasonably high scale: Dalibor Farny and Millclock. Dalibor Farny offers just one type of tube, while Millclock produces two. I believe the primary reason for this is the difficulty in optimizing manufacturing processes to the point where the tubes can be sold at a price that people are willing to pay. In my experience, large side-viewing Nixie tubes tend to be more popular with most customers, making it economically sensible to concentrate production efforts on them. Just look at how much cheaper IN-12s are than IN-14s, for example, even though they are technically almost identical. Also, top viewing Nixie tubes basically require the pins to be embedded directly into the glass envelope. I think Dalibor Farny is currently working on a process to get reliable seals using this method but isn't quite there yet.

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[Jeffry Portell]

End view tubes were designed with the intention of saving space at the display face. For example in aircraft and tanks where the space available for instruments and indicators is limited- there was more space behind the tubes instead of above or below. New developments quickly surpassed the  refinements of   end view tubes and they were basically abandoned. An LED display could be 10-15 times as dense as a nixie.

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[martin martin]

Have you been yo Dalibor’s site ?  He may be the modern expert at Nixie design. He will certainly answer your questions.  

mcve...@gmail.com

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[Instrument Resources of America]

Regarding question number one. Might it not be possible to hold the adjacent cathodes just below their ignition point and thereby lower the voltage between the lit cathode and the adjacent cathodes? With micro processor control, I would think that just about anything would be possible.

Ira.

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[Sadudu]

1.  The first issue: discharge is not actually the main concern. The spacing in Nixie tubes can be made very small, as seen in some smaller tubes like the IN16, where the spacing is less than 1mm. One of the significant reasons for increasing the spacing is that the cathodes can deform when heated, which can cause short circuits between cathodes and reduce the yield rate. If you observe closely, the spacing of some digits is not uniform. For example, the distance between the IN18’s cathodes and the anode mesh or backplate is larger. This is to prevent the cathodes from deforming and connecting during baking

2. The second issue: theoretically, the higher the temperature, the better, as it is more conducive to removing impurity gases inside the tube. However, it is usually limited by other factors, such as the melting point of the glass, the power of the oven, and so on

3. There is no standard thickness for the glass tube; you can choose the one you prefer.

4.  The last issue: because the IN12 is inexpensive, the cost of producing your own may not even be cheaper than the IN12. The purpose of mass-producing Nixie tubes is to make a profit; no one will do business that doesn't make money. The same as your question, why not top view. 

I am Sadudu, a new nixie tube maker. We have made good success on nixie tube, DGM01 is our first nixie tube.  We have now started mass production . Here is our website : inixielab.com, welcome to visit. 

[Instrument Resources of America]

I understand completely. Then there are only two solutions, insulation, or cathodes that don't deform. Thanks.

Ira

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[Nicholas Stock]

Sadudu, lovely looking tubes, well done! What kind of warranty do you provide on them?

Best,

Nick

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[Sadudu]

Hi Nick

 

We offer a five-year warranty. Although it's not as long as Dalibor's 10 years, I believe this is reasonable at this price point  

Sadudu

[Mac Doktor]

On Dec 3, 2024, at 4:21 AM, Sadudu <sadu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Here is our website : inixielab.com, welcome to visit. 

I want the Christmas tree!

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

https://www.astarcloseup.com

"If only you could see what I've seen with your eyes."—Roy Batty, Blade Runner

[Nicholas Stock]

Thank you for the info Sadudu, I will take a look at your website!

Congrats again on the progress, having seen all the work that goes into making Nixies, it is no small feat to get to the point that you have!

Cheers,

Nick

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[chuckrr]

Sadudu, those tubes look great!    I would like to see all of the engineering data about them.

This includes all dimensional drawings, base pinout and dimensions, electrical characteristics, recommended operating voltage,

recommended anode series resistance, recommended operating current range.

All of that info really needs to be readily accessable on your web site.

Thanks,  Chuck
 

---- Original Message ----
From: "Mac Doktor" <themac...@gmail.com>
Sent: 12/3/2024 1:10:51 PM
To: "neonixie-l" <neoni...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: X-IMail-SPAM-Connection Re: [neonixie-l] Questions relating to nixie manufacturing
 

On Dec 3, 2024, at 4:21 AM, Sadudu <sadu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Here is our website : inixielab.com, welcome to visit. 

I want the Christmas tree!

 

Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"
 

https://www.astarcloseup.com

 

"If only you could see what I've seen with your eyes."—Roy Batty, Blade Runner

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[Sadudu]

Hi chuckrr

Here is all information you want. 

https://inixielab.com/products/inixie-dgm-tubes 
https://github.com/Sadudu/DGM01

Thanks.

Sadudu