[NEONIXIE-L] Singing Nixie?

[mimewar]

 

I have two tubes running now, and each emits a high pitch whine when a digit is lit. I looked around, and I think this is called singing. right? Any way to fix this?

Thanks

Shane

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[Shane Ellis]

First post here, new waters...

I have two tubes running now, and each emits a high pitch whine when a
digit is
lit. I looked around, and I think this is called singing. right? Any
way to

fix this? Oh yes, they are IN-14s.

Thanks

Shane

[Adam Jacobs]

Hi Shane,
Can I assume that you are multiplexing these IN-14's? This is
something that normally only happens when you multiplex nixie tubes.
Some people have very good hearing and can hear this.. I have very poor
hearing and can not hear it. :)
My suggestion is to either direct-drive the tubes or change the mux
frequency.

-Adam

[Shane Ellis]

Actually, no. I got this same sound out of just one tube, directly
connected to the 74141. Both still do it, both have their own driver
IC (74141), and still sing. Voltage too high? current issue? I have
the proper resistor on the anode. Still singing away.

[Adam Jacobs]

I don't think voltage should matter.. What current are you driving these
IN-14's at? 2.5ma? I suppose the sound of the neon ionizing in the tube
might be audible to those with superhuman hearing... Do you also
sometimes hear ants walking across the floor? ;)

[Shane Ellis]

I will double check my current. I actually do have a condition that
gives me above average hearing and sensitivity to sound, not usually a
good thing.
I changed to an IN-1, no singing. All seems to be well with this
tube, I'll research more and find out about the singing on the IN-14.

Thanks

[Jon]

Struggling a bit to see why direct drive tubes should sing to you. A
couple of thoughts...

Could it be that you have a switch-mode HV PSU that sings when it's
under sufficient load, and not audibly when it's under low/no load ?
The human auditory system is not really good at accurately locating
the spatial source of freq at the top end of the spectrum, so maybe
it's the PSU singing not the tubes.

Second, are you sure you don't have large ripple riding on top of your
HV which is dipping below the maintenance voltage for the tube and
thus effectively turning the tube on and off at the ripple frequency?

Cheers,

Jon.

[Shane Ellis]

I am in fact, using a switch mode HVPS! And now that I tried it
again, and got my ear right over the HVPS, BINGO! The HVPS is singing
whining. Thank you so much Jon! Now how to stop that haha!
Shane

[Adam Jacobs]

First, what you are actually hearing is the inductor. This is a coil wrapped around a ferrite, and you are actually hearing that coil contract and release from the ferrite at a very high frequency. You might be able to have some success with swapping out for various other inductors, some inductors are noisier than others. Also, some SMPS IC's operate at different frequencies than others.. There's lots of little things that a person could spend a lot of time playing with here. However, if it was _ME_.. I would consider that you are going to put this clock in an enclosure and this will most probably silence the sound to your ears. This might influence your choice of enclosure, if sound dampening is an important function.
Last (but not least) if switch-mode high voltage supplies are something that you find that you do not want to listen to, there are other options. Get yourself a nice big transformer that has the secondaries that you need on it. Or, get yourself a nice small transformer that  you can rectify to get your logic voltage and then use a voltage doubler on the barewire AC input to get your ~250vdc (See Mike Harrison's design). Note: Careful with this. 180vdc from a little SMPS with give you a little tingle if you touch it. 250vdc from a non-isolated widowmaker will WAKE YOU UP.
Personally, I'd go with the enclosure idea.. But if you are going into a future of nixie clocking and super-human hearing, now might be the time to figure out your alternate powersupply scheme that generates no sound.

-Adam

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[Jamie Collins]

 

Hi Shane

I think you will find that the high pitched noise is due to the design of your power supply.

I fiddled around with some different switch mode types using mc34063 and ne555 ics for my Nixie clock.

The reason that I used these ICs was they were easily available to me.

Unfortunately the noise drove me nuts an I went back to a simpler yet bulkier solution.

I use two 12V centre tapped transformers connected back to back using one of the 6V windings.

The other winding I use for providing an isolated 5V for the TTL circuit.

No more noise!

Another thing to consider is if you are using 74141 IC's to switch the cathode of your Nixies, if you can here your PSU, you may find the same noise getting into your logic circuit.

Put an oscilloscope on your logic circuit and see if you are getting a HF signal there too.

Regards,

Jamie

VK3JME

On 04/09/2010, at 1:19 AM, mimewar wrote:

 

I have two tubes running now, and each emits a high pitch whine when a digit is lit. I looked around, and I think this is called singing. right? Any way to fix this?

Thanks

Shane

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[Bjorn Again]

 

I would love to know how to build a SMPS, but it seems a bit over my head.  It's probably not, but at the moment, I am working on coding, more than hardware.  The hvps I have I bought from Tayloredge.com  It works great, it just whines.  I think a decent wooden housing, or even something with a bit of foam inside will take care of enough noise.
I have an oscilloscope I bought 2 years ago for pennies, I just never learned how to use it!  I am sure I should, seems invaluable in logic and microcontroller applications.

I don't like the large (an heavy) 2 transformer solution.  If it ends up being cheaper, I would sure give it a try.

Now you come to mention it, I did have a severe problem with my microcontroller communicating with the 74141, the 74141 would not get the high signal properly from the uC I was using.  I ended up just bleeding off 2.3v with an LED, and all is well.

Thanks!

---

To: NEONI...@yahoogroups.com
From: vk3...@aanet.com.au
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 23:33:36 +1000
Subject: Re: [NEONIXIE-L] Singing Nixie?

 

Hi Shane

I think you will find that the high pitched noise is due to the design of your power supply.

I fiddled around with some different switch mode types using mc34063 and ne555 ics for my Nixie clock.

The reason that I used these ICs was they were easily available to me.

Unfortunately the noise drove me nuts an I went back to a simpler yet bulkier solution.

I use two 12V centre tapped transformers connected back to back using one of the 6V windings.

The other winding I use for providing an isolated 5V for the TTL circuit.

No more noise!

Another thing to consider is if you are using 74141 IC's to switch the cathode of your Nixies, if you can here your PSU, you may find the same noise getting into your logic circuit.

Put an oscilloscope on your logic circuit and see if you are getting a HF signal there too.

Regards,

Jamie

VK3JME

On 04/09/2010, at 1:19 AM, mimewar wrote:

 

I have two tubes running now, and each emits a high pitch whine when a digit is lit. I looked around, and I think this is called singing. right? Any way to fix this?

Thanks

Shane

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