Time for my annual (?) question...mostly for David F....

[orange_glow_fan]

Another year has come  (and gone)..

Posting to see if there is an update on the new oscilloscope clock kit..

Just pointing out that I am getting OLDer and the time will come when the old eyes and hands won't be up to building kits anymore..

No pressure!

Kerry.

[Nick]

How old is OLD?

I was 60 six weeks ago and will be swimming the Bosphoros for charity six weeks from now...

https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/legatumswimsquad 

Just keep busy. Both physically & mentally...

Cheers

Nick

[orange_glow_fan]

You're just a kid!

I turned 72 a couple of months ago. Up until the past two years I was holding up pretty good. A couple of surgeries slowed me down and slowly but surely time is winning the battle!

I do keep busy, I have different hobbies, and try to stay active.

[dixter]

I also have interest and have been waiting for several years for some good news coming my way... would love to get one...

DB

[Instrument Resources of America]

I'm 70 and still very active. Walk 1-2 miles a day, try to eat right, NEVER smoked, and drink very little. I'm still doing everything myself, from repairs and new construction work around the place, car repairs, (never have paid a mechanic) etc. I wanna to stay alive spoil my grandson, be a pain the arse to my daughter, and to social security. LOL   Trying to stay away from Dr's. Too.   Ira.

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[Grahame]

Hi Kerry

Are you after a DF kit specifically or would you consider other kits? I
can only help you with this kit:

http://www.sgitheach.org.uk/scope3.html

I provide as much or as little as people want up to a complete kit
including acrylic case and CRT. Or you choose a CRT and I will customise
the kit to work with it (if compatible). Contact me via the web site if
you are interested.

The technology is the same as David pioneered - Lissajous based circle
drawing.

Grahame

[NeonJohn]

On 06/15/2018 07:34 AM, 'Grahame' via neonixie-l wrote:
> Hi Kerry
>
> Are you after a DF kit specifically or would you consider other kits? I
> can only help you with this kit:
>
> http://www.sgitheach.org.uk/scope3.html
>
> I provide as much or as little as people want up to a complete kit
> including acrylic case and CRT. Or you choose a CRT and I will customise
> the kit to work with it (if compatible). Contact me via the web site if
> you are interested.
>
> The technology is the same as David pioneered - Lissajous based circle
> drawing.
>
> Grahame

Hi Grahame,

I want to buy a fully assembled and tested clock. I prefer the short
persistence green phosphor. How long do you think it will be until
these are available? Estimated price? Does it come standard with the
GPS module or is that an accessory?

Thanks
John


--
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PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77

[gregebert]

On a related note, are there any recommendations for a CRT that is known to be reliable and not easily burned from long-term usage ?

That would influence my choice for a scope-clock kit.

I have yet to fire-up one of my 3L01I tubes, and so far I've seen mixed reviews on it's phosphor life.

Maybe it's penance for all those CRTs I enjoyed smashing years ago........

[Grahame]

I've read that for green phosphors, P31 is supposed to be "tougher" than P1. But I've not seen data that compares phosphor life between other types.

I approach the problem with aggressive screen saving using a PIR to detect room occupancy. When nobody is detected I change the display from a fairly static clock image to something much more bouncy. Then I shut off the EHT after a while longer, then eventually turn off the heater as well. When the clock faces are displayed I jiggle the image in a X/Y pattern to try to even out the screen usage.

I suppose its the same logic as "savers" with nixies to reduce or spread wear.

Grahame

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[John Rehwinkel]

> On a related note, are there any recommendations for a CRT that is known to be reliable and not easily burned from long-term usage ?
> That would influence my choice for a scope-clock kit.

The 3RP1 and its flat-face variant 3RP1A are popular choices, they're common and durable (they may even still be produced, in China).

The 2AP1 is cheap and common.

There are several likely 5" tubes out there, including some with variant phosphors that may give longer life. There are a lot of old
Tektronix oscilloscope tubes out there on eBay, they're very well made and durable, but many of them want high PDA voltages (I
think Grahame's design can support them, but I'm not sure of the limits). Some of the early Tektronix CRTs (which will generally be
a good bet for a scope clock) also have RETMA designations, like the 5ABPx (available in the generic P1, the P7 yellow/blue cascade
phosphor, and the P11 blue photographic phosphor).

Possibly useful list here:
http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/Cathode-ray_tube

> I have yet to fire-up one of my 3L01I tubes, and so far I've seen mixed reviews on it's phosphor life.

It has a very thin phosphor layer, and life isn't good. The 6LO1I might be a better choice, it's another Russian tube that has a larger, rectangular face,
and probably better lifetime. It's also fairly common and affordable.

> Maybe it's penance for all those CRTs I enjoyed smashing years ago........

We all did some dumb things in our earlier days.

- John

[Charles MacDonald]

On 18-06-15 12:01 PM, 'Grahame' via neonixie-l wrote:
> I've read that for green phosphors, P31 is supposed to be "tougher" than
> P1. But I've not seen data that compares phosphor life between other types.

Looked up the Original Registration by Mullard for P31, P32 and P33.
Document gives persistence and Spectrum curves but no claims for
lifetime. Zinc Sulphide with a copper activator.

Registered in 1960 under release 2746 along with type CRT 9RP33, which
corresponds to Mullard type AL22-10. (P33 is Orange BTW)

(Having the JEDIC data is So handy, everyone should immediately send 50
bucks US to the Tube Collectors Association to get a copy)

--
Charles MacDonald Stittsville Ontario
cm...@zeusprune.ca Just Beyond the Fringe
No Microsoft Products were used in sending this e-mail.

[Grahame]

A google search of "P31 phosphor burn" finds inter alia

hpmemoryproject.org/an/pdf/an_25.pdf

In HP Application Note 25, suggests that P31 is 2.5 times more burn resistant than P1:

And elsewhere

[gregebert]

So it looks like short-persistence phosphors are the ones with the highest burn-resistance, and data certainly favors P31

I was hoping that long-persistence phosphor would have higher burn resistance; I always liked "old" IBM 3278 terminals from the early 1980's that had a very pleasant green color and they didn't seem to burn easily. The long persistence allowed lower-speed logic to control the raw video, and as a result, it had excellent clarity. No dot-smear at all, which was common with other CRTs at that time. If anyone knows what type of phosphor was used, please post.

[Mike Mitchell]

On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 12:01:03 PM UTC-4, Sgitheach wrote:

I've read that for green phosphors, P31 is supposed to be "tougher" than P1. But I've not seen data that compares phosphor life between other types.

I approach the problem with aggressive screen saving using a PIR to detect room occupancy. When nobody is detected I change the display from a fairly static clock image to something much more bouncy. Then I shut off the EHT after a while longer, then eventually turn off the heater as well. When the clock faces are displayed I jiggle the image in a X/Y pattern to try to even out the screen usage.

I suppose its the same logic as "savers" with nixies to reduce or spread wear.

Grahame

I've had one of Grahame's clocks in my office at work for over two years using a Toshiba 5DEP31 CRT.  It turns on every weekday morning when I walk in the door.  I haven't noticed any phosphor burn.

I did try a used 5DEP1 CRT that had some obvious burned areas.  I keep that tube as a back-up.  I also tried a 5EQP7 but found it had to be viewed in a dimly lit room. The long-duration phosphor looked nice though. 

Mike Mitchell