Elektronika-7 Clock... What kind of IV-26 tubes? Just found out there's Type 1, Type 2, and Type 3 IV-26's.

[celzey11]

Hello all, just ended up winning an IV-26 clock, the kind with 12 tubes for each digit. The one I got has very worn out tubes, and some segments barely light, so I want to replace some or all of the tubes. But what type of IV-26 tubes should I get? It seems like the difference is how the segments in the tube are wired together. 

[Nicholas Stock]

Type 1.

Nick

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 29, 2020, at 05:49, celzey11 <celz...@gmail.com> wrote:



Hello all, just ended up winning an IV-26 clock, the kind with 12 tubes for each digit. The one I got has very worn out tubes, and some segments barely light, so I want to replace some or all of the tubes. But what type of IV-26 tubes should I get? It seems like the difference is how the segments in the tube are wired together. 

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[celzey11]

Thanks!

On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 9:05:43 AM UTC-4, Pramanicin wrote:

Type 1.

Nick

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 29, 2020, at 05:49, celzey11 <celz...@gmail.com> wrote:



Hello all, just ended up winning an IV-26 clock, the kind with 12 tubes for each digit. The one I got has very worn out tubes, and some segments barely light, so I want to replace some or all of the tubes. But what type of IV-26 tubes should I get? It seems like the difference is how the segments in the tube are wired together. 

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[Terry Kennedy]

On Sunday, March 29, 2020 at 8:49:05 AM UTC-4, celzey11 wrote:

Hello all, just ended up winning an IV-26 clock, the kind with 12 tubes for each digit. The one I got has very worn out tubes, and some segments barely light, so I want to replace some or all of the tubes. But what type of IV-26 tubes should I get? It seems like the difference is how the segments in the tube are wired together. 

"It depends". Type 3 is for vertical-tube clocks (like the mini Elektronika) with the segments connected internally for that usage. Type 2 is used in some horizontal tube clocks, but not all. In particular, I've seen some of those clocks that have 9-pin tubes (with all 9 pins soldered) as if they were Type 1, but were actually wired as type 2 internally. Apparently efficiency was not particularly important under the Soviet system, as this required soldering 432 tube leads in total instead of 240.

You need to look at the tubes and boards in your particular clock to see what it has and can accept. Since you have a 12-tube clock, you have one of the older units. The date code should be on the sticker on the outside back of the case, unless it was scraped off (apparently some had at least the serial number scratched out as the clocks "migrated" from their original locations).

Changing the tubes on these is a bit of a PITA. First, the PCB material is old-style phenolic, not the FR94, etc. that you're likely used to. That means it is easy to lift the traces off the board when de-soldering the tubes. The boards were usually varnished AFTER the tubes were soldered, so be prepared for some noxious fumes as well. Plus, as I said above, it is 432 pins to solder. The foam holding everything in place will have degrated to a pink goo. All of this is covered in my blog entries on the clock, starting here: https://www.glaver.org/blog/?p=419 I think you already found that, as you emailed me.

To answer your email, you could theoretically convert one of these to run on 120V. There are 2 coils on the input side of the power transformer, connected in series for 240V operation (so, 120V each). You'd remove the jumper between the coils and connect them in parallel for 120V. Be careful to maintain the same orientation (one of the 120V leads connected to the A side of each winding, the other 120V lead to the B side of each winding). In all of the clocks I've seen, the transformer was subjected to the same liberal dunking in varnish that the display boards got, and cutting through all of that to convert the clock would have ruined its originality, IMHO. I used an inexpensive 120 to 240 step-up transformer from Amazon as I describe here: https://www.glaver.org/blog/?p=310

If you do decide to go ahead with re-tubing the clock and you're in the US, you could send me an email as I am sitting on a large pile of Type 1 tubes for a project that never got off the ground. This would likely be cheaper / faster than ordering from overseas.

[celzey11]

Thanks for the response! I think I'm going to end up using a voltage converter to avoid having to modify the transformer setup. As far as the tubes go, I still plan on replacing all of them, even though it's gonna be a pain, just to restore this to its original functionality. I ended up ordering 48 IV-26's from the 'bay before I saw your response, but if these end up being no good I may take you up on that offer. I will update this with pics once I get started.

[Nicholas Stock]

Apologies if I put you on the wrong track! I have a couple of clocks with both the IV26’s and IV25’s in them and they use the Type 1’s and not the ones with the internally tied dots. If you end up buying some you don’t need then PM me and can buy them off you.

Happy desoldering!

Nick

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 31, 2020, at 05:36, celzey11 <celz...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[celzey11]

>Happy desoldering!

Thought I might as well ask... What's everyone's favorite way to desolder? Or recommended desoldering braid/suction plunger product? I'll definately have to stock up on some to complete this project. I've used desoldering braid that worked well, and some that did not, but haven't bought any in a while. 

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[gregebert]

I use a manual suction device to get most of the solder out, flex the lead with soldering tip to make sure it's no longer attached to the via, then cleanup with braid after the part is removed. Lastly, clean-of flux with a swab moistened with appropriate cleaner.

Often, it's easier to snip the leads then desolder. Of course, this destroys the component but if your're replacing the part it doesn't matter much unless your want to do failure analysis. But, all you need is a pair of tweezers and you can remove each pin independently.

This is how you find out the quality of the PCB; good-quality pcb's can be reworked multiple times. Poor quality will suffer lifted traces after heating + solder-suction on the first attempt. Also, the more hole-clearance for the component lead, the easier to remove solder from the via.

[Nicholas Stock]

I have had a lot of success using this brand..

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M0ZSNZR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

For larger jobs I use a solder sucker device.....

https://smile.amazon.com/Aoyue-968A-Digital-Rework-Station/dp/B006FA481G/ref=sr_1_4?crid=3UN415IVIP1M2&dchild=1&keywords=aoyue+469&qid=1585671323&s=industrial&sprefix=aoy%2Cindustrial%2C211&sr=1-4

The latter makes a breeze of these kinds of jobs, but it does need cleaning out every so often.

Nick

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[Bill Notfaded]

I used the braid and then switched from big bulk desoldering stations to this:

American HAKKO Products FR301-03/P

[Jeff Walton]

I'm also using the same Hakko model.  It really makes repairs easy, especially anything with multiple leads.  You'll wonder why you waited so long to get a vital tool. 

Jefg

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[celzey11]

At an internship I had a couple summers ago there was one of those exact Hakko ones in one of the labs, and I snuck in some boards with Numitrons on them to desolder after hours! It worked so unbelievably well but I assumed it would be way too expensive. It's still a little pricey but honestly less than I thought, and with 48 tubes to desolder I might have to consider it. 

On Tuesday, March 31, 2020 at 4:30:47 PM UTC-4, Jeff Walton wrote:

I'm also using the same Hakko model.  It really makes repairs easy, especially anything with multiple leads.  You'll wonder why you waited so long to get a vital tool. 

Jefg

-------- Original message --------

From: Bill Notfaded <notf...@gmail.com>

Date: 3/31/20 3:12 PM (GMT-06:00)

To: neonixie-l <neoni...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Elektronika-7 Clock... What kind of IV-26 tubes? Just found out there's Type 1, Type 2, and Type 3 IV-26's.

I used the braid and then switched from big bulk desoldering stations to this:

American HAKKO Products FR301-03/P

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[Michail Wilson]

Hell Yes.

I love my HAKKO as well.

 

I think it’s the single best electronics purchase I have ever made.  I absolutely LOVE it.

 

Michail Wilson

206-920-6312

 

From: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Notfaded
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 1:12 PM
To: neonixie-l
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Elektronika-7 Clock... What kind of IV-26 tubes? Just found out there's Type 1, Type 2, and Type 3 IV-26's.

 

I used the braid and then switched from big bulk desoldering stations to this:

American HAKKO Products FR301-03/P

 

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[Bill van Dijk]

Hi Bill,

 

I am considering buying one, perhaps you can answer a question. Does the units have an electric vacuum pump, or is it some type of spring release?

 

Thanks, Bill

 

From: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Notfaded
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 4:12 PM
To: neonixie-l <neoni...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Elektronika-7 Clock... What kind of IV-26 tubes? Just found out there's Type 1, Type 2, and Type 3 IV-26's.

 

I used the braid and then switched from big bulk desoldering stations to this:

American HAKKO Products FR301-03/P

 

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[Jeff Walton]

Basically an interchangeable size heated tip with triggered electric pump.  Pulls solder into a small, easily removed chamber that you clean out after multiple uses.  It's really easy to use and clean.  It has strong enough suction to remove all but the solder that is wetted to the surface.  Wires or leads are often completely free of the PCB in one pass without forced removal. 

Jeff

[Bill Notfaded]

It has a built in vacuum pump that all fits in the hand unit.  No more big pumps and tubes needed anymore.  On top is a spring loaded section that holds the collected solder until you're ready to empty the translucent chamber holding the removed material.  It's not a brand new design but one that's been honed to almost perfection.  It's a great tool.

Bill

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[celzey11]

Hi, the beast finally showed up...and the front glass was smashed. So again, thanks Terry for not only the excellent write up on electrically restoring these clocks, but also on recreating the glass front. Sidenote, have you looked into using real glass to make the replacement or do you think plexiglass as described in your guide is the way to go?

[Terry Kennedy]

On Saturday, April 25, 2020 at 11:06:08 PM UTC-4, celzey11 wrote:

Hi, the beast finally showed up...and the front glass was smashed. So again, thanks Terry for not only the excellent write up on electrically restoring these clocks, but also on recreating the glass front. Sidenote, have you looked into using real glass to make the replacement or do you think plexiglass as described in your guide is the way to go?

I went with plastic for a few reasons. First, the paint sticks better to plastic, and getting odd sizes of plain glass cut these days is a pain because the seller is supposed to play "20 questions" with you to make sure you aren't legally required to used tempered / annealed / whatever glass in your application. Plus, shipping faceplates made out of glass risks the same damage unless you go nuts making a custom shipping crate.

BTW, the font I used is TeX Gyre Heros Italic in 48pt (mostly because it had all of the Cyrillic characters needed). Here's the original artwork (JPG) and the replacement artwork (DOCX):

[celzey11]

Just went ahead and ordered some 2111 green plexiglass...will try it. Other random sidenote, do you think 240v is too high to run the clock on (it was designed for 220v)? I'm using a converter. I noticed the filaments in the tubes are glowing slightly, and that this can reduce the life of the tubes significantly. (I haven't replaced any, just getting it working was already a fun challenge as one of the display boards cracked during shipment and needed to be patched)

[David Pye]

Curious - which country are you in with 240v mains?

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[celzey11]

USA but with a 120-240 step up transformer.

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[Alex]

Here in the UK (Hampshire) my mains often sat around 245v...

Naughty really as the limit is supposed to be +6%/-10% on 230v...

[Nick]

We're in a rural location and, like you, we often see close to 250V...

Consequently, I run all sensitive equipment through on-line UPSs which gives me a nice, clean, steady 230VAC, plus protects against the brown- and black-outs that occur with reasonable frequency.

Also use a UPS for the comms rack & SANs - all APs are using POE, so they'll keep running too.

Nick