Sourcing Large Quantities of 5870s Nixies

[Dan Helphrey]

Hi, All!

I'm new to the group, having joined because of a current project.  I have a nixie clock design of my father's from the 70s that I am hoping to put back into production (my dad was ahead of his time - he lost his shirt on these clocks in the 70s, but I'm pretty sure I can sell some now).  To do this I'll need a lot of NOS nixies.  I'm trying to find out if 5870 (preferably 5870s) nixies still exist in large enough quantities for a production run - if that doesn't work out then the next step will be figuring out how much redesign will be needed to switch to Russian IN-16s.

Anyway, does anyone know of a good source for large quantities?

Thanks!

Dan, mad architect, son of a mad scientist

[David Forbes]

There are suppliers out there who have them. You just need to ask one of
those brokers whose part number lists clog up the google searches.

--
David Forbes, Tucson AZ

[Nick]

What do call a "large quantity"? 100s? 1000s?

Nick

[Adam Jacobs]

Is a 1970's nixie clock design really the best idea in this day and age?
I mean, unless there is something really neat going on with the
industrial design?
Electronics have come a long way since then. a Nixie clock built using
TTL logic is probably not the most cost-effective (or feature complete)
choice.

-Adam

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[Dan Helphrey]

Assuming I can determine it's feasible at all, my plan is to do a Kickstarter campaign; I am tentatively imagining somewhere in the neighborhood of 200-300 clocks, so with 4 digits each that'd be 800-1200 tubes.  If the Kickstarter campaign were to really catch fire (hey, never hurts to dream), it could be a lot more, so one of the things I am trying to find out is what the effective maximum number available are.

[Dan Helphrey]

"unless there is something really neat going on with the industrial design" <- THIS.

It is entirely possible that all the electronic "guts" will be reengineered using current technology, but once the box is closed, I want it to look and behave exactly as my dad's clocks.

[Mich...@aol.com]

I think I buy just about every clock made (6 digit).

 

Maybe consider the 6 as well since a 4 digit isn't for me?  Guess it also, in a way, depends on price.

 

Michail

[kay486]

Yea, 4 digits, not that interesting and popular. 6 digits is much much better.  What would be the final price range you are thinking about? By the way, do you have a prototype yet? Id like to see pictures and/or video.

[Adam Jacobs]

I like 4-digit clocks as well as 6-digit. Nerds tend to like their 6-digit clocks, it is nice to see the numbers changing. Spouses tend to like the 4-digit versions better, in my experience. I own both types and have built both types.
I like both types. :)

-Adam

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[David Forbes]

On 3/13/2013 11:23 AM, Dan Helphrey wrote:
> Assuming I can determine it's feasible at all, my plan is to do a
> Kickstarter campaign; I am tentatively imagining somewhere in the
> neighborhood of 200-300 clocks, so with 4 digits each that'd be 800-1200
> tubes. If the Kickstarter campaign were to really catch fire (hey, never
> hurts to dream), it could be a lot more, so one of the things I am trying
> to find out is what the effective maximum number available are.
>

Do you have a photo of your dad's clock we could see?

These days, the clock itself is not very interesting; it's the packaging that
people go for. And you will get a lot of argument about taste and style, as
these are highly subjective. You've already heard a few arguments about the
number of digits.

The 5870 tubes are rather narrow, being designed for use in 12-digit
calculators. That's why I use them in my wristwatch. Unfortunately, they don't
look as nice as the other tubes that are a bit larger in diameter and have
better-proportioned digits.

If I were doing this, I'd build ten clocks and see how well they sell, then make
25 more, etc. There is no reason to commit to a large quantity of parts these
days, given the availability of prototype PC boards and CNC machining. You
should be able to find 50 5870 tubes from a broker pretty easily, although the
price won't be super great, at least you'll only be out 50 tubes if it's a bust.

--
David Forbes, Tucson, AZ

[Nicholas Stock]

The one nixie clock I've seen on Kickstarter took a different angle on things...

http://www.ramosclock.com/products/nixie-ramos

It is 4 digit (IN12's) but that is just one of it's features. Personally I prefer 6 digits, but each to their own. My only comment on IN-16's is that they seem to have a high failure rate (digits start glowing pinkish then die over a period of days to weeks....)...they're a pain to change too! 

Best of luck in your search, but a bulk buy probably won't be cheap now...

Nick

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[Adam Jacobs]

I think that (based on the current supply of nixies), if I was to design and build a new clock right now I would use IN-12's.

-Adam

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[Terry Kennedy]

On Mar 13, 4:55 pm, Adam Jacobs <jacobs.a...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think that (based on the current supply of nixies), if I was to design
> and build a new clock right now I would use IN-12's.

Deciding on the desired tube, buying up available stocks, and _then_
announcing the new clock is probably the best way to go. Look at what
happened to the price of IV-4/IV-17 displays when the IV-17
Smartsocket was announced - the price per tube jumped from $1.50-ish
to $4-$8 per tube, and that's without an ongoing supply of Smartsocket
boards to drive them.

[Tony Adams]

Have a look at the current ebay prices of IN-7 nixies for an
example...

I have a design that was completed late last year but have no
intention of announcing it until I've managed to buy enough tubes at a
reasonable price. One seller I approached for a quote increased their
ebay listing price of the tube I was interested in by 50% within 5
minutes of my enquiry.

It's a sellers market and will only get worse as supplies dry up.

[GastonP]

And of course after (and if) the project kicks the price of the IN12's will raise to IN18's levels...

Just seeing the IN14 prices skyrocket is enough...

Gaston

[Adam Jacobs]

No kidding about the IN-14's. Although I figured that all of those flying lead nixies were doomed for price inflation, way too tempting for kit builders. The IN-8-2 was a casualty long before the IN-14. In fact, the IN-16 was inflating before the IN-14. For some reason people were really derogatory towards that whole "upside down 2" for a long time.
IN-17's are still cheap, though. Probably because they are top-down tubes. People seem to like the tubes that "look like a vacuum tube".

-Adam

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[Matt]

Maybe you can buy this and manufacture your own nixie's :-)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TECHNOLOGY-for-IN-18-NIXIE-TUBE-PRODUCTION-MATERIALS-equipment-/261172534593

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[Dan Helphrey]

I had no idea it took so many cans of tuna to produce nixies...

[Frank Bemelman]

;-) and bags of bird eye pasta.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/7bB04ih5wOkJ.

[chuck richards]

Funny how that works, isn't it?

Something will sit there for ages at a low and fair price.
Then, as soon as anyone expresses any interest in said
item, the price instantly shoots way, way up.

It's as if they think I was born yesterday and just
got off the boat. Sheesh.

One guy at an electronics outlet tried that one on me
for some TTL crystal oscillators he had advertised.
I wrote him a very terse email about what he tried
to pull on me and he felt so guilty he ended up
sending me 4 of them no charge.

Chuck (who was born yesterday and just got off the boat)

>
>
>---- Original Message ----
>From: to...@lasermad.com
>To: neoni...@googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Sourcing Large Quantities of 5870s
>Nixies

>Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 20:15:09 -0700 (PDT)
>
>>Have a look at the current ebay prices of IN-7 nixies for an
>>example...
>>
>>I have a design that was completed late last year but have no
>>intention of announcing it until I've managed to buy enough tubes at
>a
>>reasonable price. One seller I approached for a quote increased
>their
>>ebay listing price of the tube I was interested in by 50% within 5
>>minutes of my enquiry.
>>
>>It's a sellers market and will only get worse as supplies dry up.
>>
>>On Mar 14, 3:04 am, Terry Kennedy <terry+googleb...@tmk.com> wrote:

>>> On Mar 13, 4:55 pm, Adam Jacobs <jacobs.a...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > I think that (based on the current supply of nixies), if I was
>to design
>>> > and build a new clock right now I would use IN-12's.
>>>

>>> Deciding on the desired tube, buying up available stocks, and
>_then_
>>> announcing the new clock is probably the best way to go. Look at
>what
>>> happened to the price of IV-4/IV-17 displays when the IV-17
>>> Smartsocket was announced - the price per tube jumped from
>$1.50-ish
>>> to $4-$8 per tube, and that's without an ongoing supply of
>Smartsocket
>>> boards to drive them.
>>

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>Groups "neonixie-l" group.
>>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>send an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
>>To post to this group, send an email to neoni...@googlegroups.com.

>>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>>
>>

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[petehand]

Sure is. A few years ago I developed a design for a cheap and easy scope clock, based on the 3LO1 1 inch tube. I made the mistake of mentioning it on NeoNixie, and the seller tripled the price of the tubes overnight. I decided he could screw himself, and never made any more than the first one, nor gave the design to anyone else. The 3LO1 was junk, anyway, like all the other Russian CRTs I tried. It had a lifetime of less than 1000 hours before it became too dim to see even in a dark room.

The prices of IV17s and IN16s will fall sharply after I die when my executors liquidate the estate. I bought a couple thousand of each type when they were plentiful, for about 50 cents each. There are tens of thousands of IN16s in Japan also - a Japanese guy was the winning bidder every time a 1000 lot came up a few years ago. I've been expecting a Japanese nixie clock to show up ever since.

[Nick]

I totally agree Pete - Its called "market forces" - Like you, I and many others of the "older" members have substantial stocks of nixies.

I can understand certain tubes being pricey - 7971s, CD47/GR414/Z568s etc., but there is no Earthly reason that tubes that were probably made in the 100s of 1000s, if not millions, should cost so much.

There are still good, interesting, tubes that are reasonably priced, so long as people keep quiet about them :)

This problem is also rife in the audio world. A few years ago someone noticed that the German PTT used to use special high quality, low noise, pentodes in their exchanges and for long distance repeaters - C3g, C3m & C3o - see http://www.jacmusic.com/nos/C3g-C3m-info.html . When first made, they cost a FORTUNE, but prices were really pretty cheap (couple of euros) until the audio crowd got wind of them. Now new ones go from 20 to 60 euros depending...

Anything with "Mullard" or "Philips" etc. also attracts insane prices, as does the word "original". Its a "fashion" industry...

Nick