B7971's for sale (again)

[Terry S]

Thanks for all the responses to my B7971 post.

A couple of clarifcations and answers to questions.

1) This is not an auction. I won't answer questions like "what is your
best offer so far?' and "what are you asking for the tubes?". I know
what the market value of the tubes are based on both other sellers on
this list and eBay auctions. Please, as per the original post, email
me off-list with your solid offer. I prefer not to negotiate.

2) The tubes are marked Burroughs. Not Ultronics.

3) A couple people asked "why marked and photographed?" Call me
paranoid, buy I don't want anyone complaining that I sent a bad tube.
This is my record of what I send. I used to sell tubes on eBay on
occasion and it was not uncommon for someone to try and return a tube
that wasn't mine to begin with. That said...

4) I will not warranty the tubes. I will makes sure every tube leaves
here with all segments working.

5) Why am I selling them? Simple. I like nixie clocks, but I'm not a
nixie tube collector or hoarder. (Actually I'm a radio collector/
hoarder :-) I came across this stash of B7971's, traded several away,
kept enough for my needs, and the rest are up for sale. Simple.

Sorry for the long post. Please keep the offers coming!

Terry

[Terry S]

All the B7971's I had available have been sold. Thanks for your
interest.

Terry

[Jeff Thomas]

I've listed another tested batch of B7971's on ebay BIN for those who
need them.

http://search.ebay.com/120741967844

Regards, Jeff

[Mich...@aol.com]

Jeff,

 

Did you find a way to make them?

/me wondering where you come up with them all.

 

Michail

[David Forbes]

On 6/24/11 8:33 AM, Mich...@aol.com wrote:
> Jeff,
> Did you find a way to make them?
> /me wondering where you come up with them all.
> Michail

Buy low, sell high.

http://www.nixiebunny.com/b7971ad.jpg

These tubes were available in large quantities at a low price in 2002.

--
David Forbes, Tucson AZ

[Joe Croft]

Jeff,

Those are pretty tubes!!! Darned shame you didn't offer these before I
separated from my wife, I could have sold her to pay for them ;).

-joe

[Nick]

On Jun 24, 4:39 pm, David Forbes <dfor...@dakotacom.net> wrote:

> On 6/24/11 8:33 AM, Micha...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Jeff,
> > Did you find a way to make them?
> > /me wondering where you come up with them all.
> > Michail
>
> Buy low, sell high.
>
> http://www.nixiebunny.com/b7971ad.jpg
>
> These tubes were available in large quantities at a low price in 2002.

Indeed - it was a good time. Its worth reminding those that don't know
it that the then owner of pretty much the world's stock of these
didn't really want them. When he sold bulk lots of then they were
pretty much just chucked in a box & shipped with minimal packing.

Of the shipments I received, I lost about 20, but he always packed
extra to account for "wastage".

http://www.desmith.net/NMdS/Nixies/DSCN1855.JPG

Yes, the newspaper was the only packing - the tubes were close packed
in pathetic boxes in batches of 100 or so. It almost made me weep.

Nick

[Nicholas Stock]

And here I am contemplating spending 200 bucks on two tubes......I wasn't born in time! ;-)

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[Wayne de Geere III]

Thats a heart breaking photo.

Sent from my iPad 2 3G

[Dieter Waechter]

> Of the shipments I received, I lost about 20, but he always packed
extra to account for "wastage".
http://www.desmith.net/NMdS/Nixies/DSCN1855.JPG
Yes, the newspaper was the only packing - the tubes were close packed
in pathetic boxes in batches of 100 or so. It almost made me weep.

Some years ago I also have received a package with 300 B-7971 tubes. about
150 were broken.
The look was exactly the same as your picture.
They were wapped in newspapers, and then glass on glass in boxes without any
padding material - and then shipped over the ocean from USA to Germany.
TERRIBLE!
(I got no ferfund at all from the seller!)
Dieter

[Jeff Thomas]

Nick, I encountered a 7% breakage and 2% defect rate. Abysmal. That
may be in line with most who had bought tubes from him in quantity.
Each box "tinkled" when lifted; a little audible treat of what was in
store for the lucky recipient on opening :(
I suspected all the tubes with shattered envelopes had valiantly
sacrificed themselves to provide padding for others to survive the
journey. They tubes I received were shipped cross country (MA to AZ)
in the same old newspaper they were originally wrapped in up in the
attic cache. Many had no paper over them at all. I didn't receive any
overage or replacements, since he was already at the end of the fun.
I'd venture to guess that upwards of a thousand tubes were lost to
breakage in transit to all buyers.
If i remember right, you had a substantial buy as well.

Hard to believe that nine years have gone by already.
We were all so bright eyed and bushy tailed nixie fiddlers then...

The tubes I have now were purchased only recently.

Regards, Jeff

[Wayne de Geere III]

This story is breaking my heart. For that sort of breakage, it would have made sense to fly out there and pack them up yourselves. I have to admit, the mea culpas i carry with me would make grown men cry, I know how this feels.

Sent from my iPad 2 3G

On Jun 24, 2011, at 13:48, Jeff Thomas <nixi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Nick, I encountered a 7% breakage and 2% defect rate. Abysmal. That
> may be in line with most who had bought tubes from him in quantity.
> Each box "tinkled" when lifted; a little audible treat of what was in
> store for the lucky recipient on opening :(
> I suspected all the tubes with shattered envelopes had valiantly
> sacrificed themselves to provide padding for others to survive the
> journey. They tubes I received were shipped cross country (MA to AZ)
> in the same old newspaper they were originally wrapped in up in the
> attic cache. Many had no paper over them at all. I didn't receive any
> overage or replacements, since he was already at the end of the fun.
> I'd venture to guess that upwards of a thousand tubes were lost to
> breakage in transit to all buyers.
> If i remember right, you had a substantial buy as well.
>
> Hard to believe that nine years have gone by already.
> We were all so bright eyed and bushy tailed nixie fiddlers then...
>
> The tubes I have now were purchased only recently

> Regards, Jeff
>
>
>
> On Jun 24, 10:28 am, Nick <n...@desmith.net> wrote:
>> On Jun 24, 4:39 pm, David Forbes <dfor...@dakotacom.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/24/11 8:33 AM, Micha...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>> Jeff,
>>>> Did you find a way to make them?
>>>> /me wondering where you come up with them all.
>>>> Michail
>>
>>> Buy low, sell high.
>>
>>> http://www.nixiebunny.com/b7971ad.jpg
>>
>>> These tubes were available in large quantities at a low price in 2002.
>>
>> Indeed - it was a good time. Its worth reminding those that don't know
>> it that the then owner of pretty much the world's stock of these
>> didn't really want them. When he sold bulk lots of then they were
>> pretty much just chucked in a box & shipped with minimal packing.
>>
>> Of the shipments I received, I lost about 20, but he always packed
>> extra to account for "wastage".
>>
>> http://www.desmith.net/NMdS/Nixies/DSCN1855.JPG
>>
>> Yes, the newspaper was the only packing - the tubes were close packed
>> in pathetic boxes in batches of 100 or so. It almost made me weep.
>>
>> Nick
>

[Nick]

On Jun 24, 7:59 pm, Wayne de Geere III <wa...@deGeere.com> wrote:
> This story is breaking my heart. For that sort of breakage, it would have made sense to fly out there and pack them up yourselves. I have to admit, the mea culpas i carry with me would make grown men cry, I know how this feels.

At the time they were pretty cheap - I live in the UK, it would never
have made sense to go there personally.

I did try to get him to pack them properly, but he never did - just
chucked another few in to cover the losses.

The newspaper in the photo is all the "packing" they had - it the very
same paper they were wrapped in when originally stored in the 1970s
and were still in when he discovered the cache in, I believe, a New
York warehouse. ISTR there were a fewf thousand of them. When shipping
them to us they came in just that sheet of 1970s newspaper - that's
all.

As far as we know he was the only person to have commercial quantities
of these tube - they were all used, and no one has yet seen a genuine
NOS 7971 - lots that claim to be, but none verified. SO this cache
seems to have been the mother lode.

Main problem was that he wasn't a tube guy - he dealt in old coins and
really really didn't want the hassle of wrapping them individually and
shipping them properly. Several of us tried to reason with him, but to
no avail.

Ah. Well. Its done now...

Nick

[jb-electronics]

Anyone ever thought of fixing the tubes? I think the hardest part is the
seal between the pins and the glass, and if that part was still intact
(which in many cases it is, because it is the most stable glass part of
the tube), wouldn't it be possible to add a new "cap" to the tube? I.e.
some glass cylinder, or a really large test tube ;-) with a small outlet
at the back through which the tube's vacuum could be generated and then
also be filled with your Neon / Argon mixture.

Sadly, I do not have the equipment, but I know there are several people
on this list who might be able to do that. Maybe not the gas / vacuum
part, but the general glassworks. In Germany we have several extremly
good glass workers who create Geissler tubes. The vacuum / gas part is a
piece of cake for them, but sadly, they are reluctant to play around
with the first glass repair.

I have another sad story: a broken CD47 :-((( I got it for 50EUR,
though, and if I ever learn glassworks, I will sure try to fix it.

What do you guys think?

Jens

[Mich...@aol.com]

Very strange.

 

A batch of mine that I could on ebay (11 of them) were also wrapped in this same newspaper.  Dates were all in 1971 as well.  Tried as I did, not of them were on my birthday.  :(

 

Now I will have to go back and look since I still have them.    I purchased that batch on ebay about a year ago.  The person said that they belonged to their expired father.

 

Michail

[Nicholas Stock]

http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-Burroughs-B-7971-B7971-Nixie-Tube-Vintage-Rare-NOS-/280702018540?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item415b24e3ec#ht_1234wt_1141

Too rich for my blood!

--

[Mich...@aol.com]

How did you find them so fast after posting?

 

In a message dated 6/25/2011 9:55:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, nick...@gmail.com writes:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-Burroughs-B-7971-B7971-Nixie-Tube-Vintage-Rare-NOS-/280702018540?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item415b24e3ec#ht_1234wt_1141

[MichaelB]

Ok, so....what am I missing here....NOS with burn marks?? I guess most
of mine are NOS too then! Hot Diggity!! I'll be puttin' mine on the
market for $222 each tomorrow too!

On Jun 25, 9:55 pm, Nicholas Stock <nickst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-Burroughs-B-7971-B7971-Nixie-Tube-Vintage-Rare...

>
> Too rich for my blood!
>
>
>

> On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 7:26 AM, <Micha...@aol.com> wrote:
> > **

> > Very strange.
>
> > A batch of mine that I could on ebay (11 of them) were also wrapped in this
> > same newspaper.  Dates were all in 1971 as well.  Tried as I did, not of
> > them were on my birthday.  :(
>
> > Now I will have to go back and look since I still have them.    I purchased
> > that batch on ebay about a year ago.  The person said that they belonged to
> > their expired father.
>
> > Michail
>
> >  In a message dated 6/24/2011 11:23:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

[John Rehwinkel]

> OK, It appears they DO exist! I would like to see a shot of those
> mummified relics before I become a true believer. And if they prove to
> be real...a $445/2 believer, I will never be!

I have seen some more convincing NOS auctions (the tubes packed 36 per carton in styrofoam trays).

These boxes aren't even for those tubes!

- John

[MichaelB]

Bitcoin mining, Michail

On Jun 25, 10:23 pm, Micha...@aol.com wrote:
> How did you find them so fast after posting?
>
> In a message dated 6/25/2011 9:55:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
>

> nickst...@gmail.com writes:
>
> _http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-Burroughs-B-7971-B7971-Nixie-Tube-Vintage-Rare...
> 280702018540?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item415b24e3ec#ht_1234wt_1141_
> (http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-Burroughs-B-7971-B7971-Nixie-Tube-Vintage-Rare...
> 80702018540?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item415b24e3ec#ht_1234wt_1141)

[Mich...@aol.com]

Now there is a subject I would seriously like to talk to you about directly.

 

Michail Wilson

206-920-6312

 

[Wayne de Geere III]

$445 for 4, maybe. Like that last auction that closed a day or two ago where the guy put a mirror up to the two tubes, making it look like there were four to a casual buyer. That would be quite an ugly surprise when a box of two showed up for the price of four.

On 2011 Jun 26, at 00:14 , MichaelB wrote:

> OK, It appears they DO exist! I would like to see a shot of those
> mummified relics before I become a true believer. And if they prove to
> be real...a $445/2 believer, I will never be!
>

> On Jun 25, 9:55 pm, Nicholas Stock <nickst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-Burroughs-B-7971-B7971-Nixie-Tube-Vintage-Rare...
>>

>> Too rich for my blood!
>>
>>
>>

>> On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 7:26 AM, <Micha...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> **

>>> Very strange.
>>
>>> A batch of mine that I could on ebay (11 of them) were also wrapped in this
>>> same newspaper. Dates were all in 1971 as well. Tried as I did, not of
>>> them were on my birthday. :(
>>
>>> Now I will have to go back and look since I still have them. I purchased
>>> that batch on ebay about a year ago. The person said that they belonged to
>>> their expired father.
>>
>>> Michail
>>
>>> In a message dated 6/24/2011 11:23:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

[Nicholas Stock]

Not sure I understand... I always keep an eye on eBay for tube bargains.. Unfortunately those seem to be getting rarer these days as people are asking crazy prices for nixies etc....

Sent from my iPhone

--

[Terry S]

The pins aren't exactly straight on those tubes, either.

I'm not buying the NOS status.
Terry

[Mich...@aol.com]

Hello,

 

Strange, I emailed him about it as well.  He did mention that it was put in the mirror so that someone could see both sides.

 

I thought that was strange, since they were laying down.  Meaning, you would only see a reflection of the same side.

 

So, maybe it wasn't done on purpose, but give me a break.  I nearly bid 300 at the end myself.  It did make me reread the auction several times.

 

Strangely, he has done it with other auctions as well.  It seems risky to do that without at least saying mirror.

 

"Hello mister banker.  I would like to deposit my $200.   Umm, no, that is a mirror so you believe I have twice as much.   What do you mean it will not work?"  I was just trying to get you to see both sides of the top?

 

Michail

[Jeff Thomas]

On Jun 26, 6:44 am, Terry S <tschw10...@aol.com> wrote:
> The pins aren't exactly straight on those tubes, either.
>
> I'm not buying the NOS status.
> Terry
>

I saw the same thing in image eight, and Terry had beat me to the pin
observation.
Adding to that the smudging of the label from cleaning the envelopes.

I suppose he saw the recent sales activity and decided a few young
paste-eater nixie fans would believe the NOS pitch.

Those B7971 tubes, like John R noted, were packed in trays of 36.
Maybe singles had a marked Burroughs box.
I have a few of the trays. I snapped an image a moment ago:
http://www.amug.org/~jthomas/b7971tray.jpg

Regards, Jeff

[jb-electronics]

I once saw a batch of eight B-7971 tubes, all in Ultronics original boxes.

Jens

[MichaelB]

Interesting... our boy has reduced his price to $399. Wonder if it had
anything to do with him receiving emails like this from me and others:

Dear appleibmlaseresearch,

Hi There, Curious how you account for those burn marks on your "NOS"
B7971 tubes?

[MichaelB]

Like the baby blue 'bird back drop, Jeff! Nice!

[thatbrock]

Interestingly, the cost of two B7971s from that ad ($8.88) would be
(only) $35.26 today*. Amazing.

Those days are definitely gone...


*http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?
cost1=8.88&year1=1976&year2=2011

On Jun 24, 4:39 pm, David Forbes <dfor...@dakotacom.net> wrote:
> On 6/24/11 8:33 AM, Micha...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Jeff,
> > Did you find a way to make them?
> > /me wondering where you come up with them all.
> > Michail
>
> Buy low, sell high.
>
> http://www.nixiebunny.com/b7971ad.jpg
>
> These tubes were available in large quantities at a low price in 2002.
>

> --
> David Forbes, Tucson AZ

[jb-electronics]

But not only are the tubes getting more and more expensive, interesting
Nixie tube listings on Ebay are getting rarer and rarer as well...

Jens

[Terry Kennedy]

On Jun 26, 5:15 pm, jb-electronics <webmas...@jb-electronics.de>
wrote:

> But not only are the tubes getting more and more expensive, interesting
> Nixie tube listings on Ebay are getting rarer and rarer as well...

Which leads to an interesting thought - if the supply of additional
tubes is drying up, what is the possibility of commissioning the
manufacture of some new tubes? There are still companies producing
vacuum tubes (mostly in Eastern Europe) and with current eBay closing
prices, it would seem to be cost-effective to build and sell new ones.

What type(s) would people want? IN-18, B7971, or (dare I say it) CD47?
Something else?

If some eBay sellers are hoarding large quantities of true NOS tubes
(I suspect this is the case for the IN-18, far less so for the
others), just serious negotiations with a manufacturer about
restarting production might break the logjam.

I don't think doing this for VFD displays would be cost-effective, at
least not until prices rise considerably. IV-17 / IV-4's have all but
disappeared from eBay - it used to be possible to buy 100's at $1.50
each or less. There are a few listings now for small lots (4 or 6
tubes) at $3.00 each. I wonder if someone who plans on producing kits
(or assembled clocks) bought them all up? That would be a lot of tubes
- 2 years ago I had a quote from a Russian vendor with quantity
discount breaks up to 10,000 pieces.

If there is interest in the IN-18, Svetlana may even have existing
tooling:
http://www.svetlana-tubes.com/svetlana.htm

If that doesn't work out, perhaps a manufacturer like JJ Electronic
would be interested:
http://www.jj-electronic.com

[Terry Kennedy]

On Jun 26, 5:06 pm, thatbrock <thatbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Interestingly, the cost of two B7971s from that ad ($8.88) would be
> (only) $35.26 today*. Amazing.

Actually, the $8.88 price is for two boards with 2 tubes on each.

[Nick]

On Jun 26, 5:55 am, Nicholas Stock <nickst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-Burroughs-B-7971-B7971-Nixie-Tube-Vintage-Rare...
>

> Too rich for my blood!

Interesting - there is an NSN on the box - "5960-00-248-8501"

Can anyone translate this to a mfg p/n? Best I can do is:
http://5960.iso-group.com/NSN/5960-00-248-8501

Nick

[Dmitri Vorobiev]

Hi Nick,

It looks like the boxes aren't matching the nixies. To my
understanding, what was once in those boxes are the 6004 tubes:

http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6004.html

Like some other people in this email thread, I'm not buying the NOS
status claimed in the auction. The seller, judging by the other items
and selling history, isn't a vacuum tube or nixie expert, so he
probably can't tell if the box matches the contents.

Thanks,
Dmitri

[Robert B. Saltzman]

back in the early seventies I paid $1.98 for two B7971's along with
controller circuit board and sockets, from Meshna Electronics, a surplus
house in New England.
I bought four boards (eight tubes and sockets). I wish that I had had
the forethought to have purchased 100 of them!

Four tubes are in service in one of my Weisling Four Letter Word's.

bob

[Terry S]

What makes you think Svetlana would have nixie tooling, and more
specifically, IN-18 tooling?
They no doubt have vacuum tube tooling, but the tooling specific to
In-18's would not be part of that. Tooling for digits? Equipment for
gas filling? Doubtful.

Let's be realistic, no tube manufacturer is going to tool for, much
less produce, at best, a few thousand nixies a year to satisfy the
hobbyist crowd.

[Charles MacDonald]

On 11-06-26 09:13 PM, Terry S wrote:

> They no doubt have vacuum tube tooling, but the tooling specific to
> In-18's would not be part of that. Tooling for digits? Equipment for
> gas filling? Doubtful.
>

The two Soviet era firms still standing are reflector, and svetlana.
Svetlana minly were in the power (transmiting) tube business. There
logo is a winged C (russian S) anyone ever see a Nixie with their logo?

--
Charles MacDonald Stittsville Ontario
cm...@zeusprune.ca Just Beyond the Fringe
http://www.TelecomOttawa.net/~cmacd/
No Microsoft Products were used in sending this e-mail.

[Terry Kennedy]

On Jun 26, 9:13 pm, Terry S <tschw10...@aol.com> wrote:
> What makes you think Svetlana would have nixie tooling, and more
> specifically, IN-18 tooling?
> They no doubt have vacuum tube tooling, but the tooling specific to
> In-18's would not be part of that. Tooling for digits? Equipment for
> gas filling? Doubtful.

From what I read, Svetlana operates out of Saratov using part of the
old Reflector factory. I could be mis-informed.

> Let's be realistic, no tube manufacturer is going to tool for, much
> less produce, at best, a few thousand nixies a year to satisfy the
> hobbyist crowd.

There are tube companies that make only hundreds of particular tube
type a year, using mostly hand techniques and simple machinery. Take a
look at this clip from the TV show "How It's Made" - this is a free
preview, but gets partway into the segment on tube building:

http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Tubes-Shredders-Model-Aircraft/dp/B004MJ10BI

Given that one CD47 sold for over $1300 on eBay recently, it would
seem to me that a manufacturer could make at least as much money as
they make on limited-production audio tubes by producing Nixies.

[Charles MacDonald]

>> From what I read, Svetlana operates out of Saratov using part of the
> old Reflector factory. I could be mis-informed.
>

The trademark for svetlana is not owned by svetlana in the USA. It is
owned by the New Sensor folks who own the remains of the refector
factory. So REAL svetlana tubes are sold in the STates as "winged C"

[A.J. Franzman]

On Jun 26, 4:58 pm, Dmitri Vorobiev <dmitri.vorob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It looks like the boxes aren't matching the nixies. To my
> understanding, what was once in those boxes are the 6004 tubes:
>
> http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_6004.html
>
> Like some other people in this email thread, I'm not buying the NOS
> status claimed in the auction. The seller, judging by the other items
> and selling history, isn't a vacuum tube or nixie expert, so he
> probably can't tell if the box matches the contents.

I agree, those are not correct boxes for the tubes. From additional
anomalies already mentioned in some of the other comments here, the
tubes are definitely not NOS either.

The only original packaging I've ever seen (that I can remember) that
is appropriate to B-7971 tubes is the styrofoam bulk trays. I would
love to be proven wrong if someone here has a retail box or military-
style plain brown or white box with the correct markings. I have seen
NASA mission control film with console displays that could be 7971
tubes, so that is one possible customer for quantities less than a
full bulk tray, probably in mil-boxes.

A.J.

[MichaelB]

The response I got from the seller:

Dear m**r3695,

Thank you. We got it from a passed away collector. We will changing
the description.

- appleibmlaseresearch
Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to
reply

From: m**r3695
To: appleibmlaseresearch
Subject: Other: m**r3695 sent a message about 2x Burroughs B-7971
B7971 Nixie Tube Vintage Rare NOS #280702018540
Sent Date: Jun-25-11 22:38:21 PDT



Dear appleibmlaseresearch,

Hi There, Curious how you account for those burn marks on your "NOS"
B7971 tubes?

- m**r3695

[Ray Fenwick]

My wife's from Saratov. She's in Moscow at the moment, but will be going to visit family soon I think - I'll ask her to find out.

Ray

[Nick]

On Jun 26, 5:55 am, Nicholas Stock <nickst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-Burroughs-B-7971-B7971-Nixie-Tube-Vintage-Rare...
>
> Too rich for my blood!

Well, I sent the vendor a message about the incorrect provenance of
the boxes and that the tubes were obviously not NOS and got an
apologetic reply with a promise to rectify the listing. Now the
description has changed from "NOS" to "TESTED" - all reference to and
pictures of the boxes have gone and the tubes are now shown operating
in a 6 digit clock which is where they probably originated from. The
BIN price has dropped further to USD 275 - still a touch cute and
worth seeing if they actually get that.

Its amazing what people will try.

Nick

[MichaelB]

Here, Here!! There is strength in numbers...however $137 each for
these used tubes is still way too many numbers in my book. But at
least his add is somewhat 'accurate' now. Yep, it'll be interesting to
see what he gets for 'em.

esting to see what he gets for 'em.

[Terry S]

And now down to $199/pair, three pairs listed, as well as a 6-pack for
$600.
Now we're at more realistic prices.

> > Nick- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[MichaelB]

Interesting...wonder if he's monitoring this forum? It's all the
rage..ya' know!

[Jeff Thomas]

On Jun 27, 11:23 pm, MichaelB <mbari...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> Interesting...wonder if he's monitoring this forum? It's all the
> rage..ya' know!

Wow, this thread has legs!

I wonder if the continual revisions, or the prior explanation of
'having gotten them from a passed away collector' might be why the
tubes are still there at $100 ea? Or perhaps his feedback history has
placed some pre-emptive stink on buyer confidence?
http://www.toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=appleibmlaseresearch&Dirn=Received+by

Regards, Jeff

[Mich...@aol.com]

Wow,

 

That's a cool tool.    Thanks.

 

Michail

 

In a message dated 6/28/2011 6:37:27 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, nixi...@gmail.com writes:

http://www.toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=appleibmlaseresearch&Dirn=Received+by

[Wayne de Geere III]

Now that seller has got a full old clock with a bunch of cathode poisoned looking tubes in it for sale:

check out the money shot: http://jpegbay.com/gallery/001031521-.html#9

"6x Burroughs B-7971 B7971 Nixie Tube Vintage TESTED"
http://cgi.ebay.com/280703234040
with a buy it now for $749.99 -- don't forget the $55 for shipping!

and the fine print:

"Sold as is and final as many new, used and vintage electronic items.
No return, no refund, no warranty. If you're not agreed with my policy please do not buy this auction."

[Terry S]

The price was $899 yesterday when he listed it...

On Jun 29, 4:04 am, Wayne de Geere III <wa...@deGeere.com> wrote:
> Now that seller has got a full old clock with a bunch of cathode poisoned looking tubes in it for sale:
> check out the money shot:http://jpegbay.com/gallery/001031521-.html#9
>
> "6x Burroughs B-7971 B7971 Nixie Tube Vintage TESTED"http://cgi.ebay.com/280703234040
> with a buy it now for $749.99 -- don't forget the $55 for shipping!
>
> and the fine print:
> "Sold as is and final as many new, used and vintage electronic items.
> No return, no refund, no warranty. If you're not agreed with my policy please do not buy this auction."
>
> On 2011 Jun 28, at 06:37 , Jeff Thomas wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 27, 11:23 pm, MichaelB <mbari...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> >> Interesting...wonder if he's monitoring this forum? It's all the
> >> rage..ya' know!
>
> > Wow, this thread has legs!
>
> > I wonder if the continual revisions, or the prior explanation of
> > 'having gotten them from a passed away collector' might be why the
> > tubes are still there at $100 ea? Or perhaps his feedback history has
> > placed some pre-emptive stink on buyer confidence?

> >http://www.toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=appleibmlaseresearch&Dirn=R...

>
> > Regards, Jeff
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group.
> > To post to this group, send an email to neoni...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.

> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.- Hide quoted text -

[JohnK]

Tested is tested.

Bad is still tested.

Result of test is more interesting  :-))    [ie parameters etc and pass/fail ]

 

john k

[it is like "matched pairs" in audio sales. Yeah, they match sort-of ; visually. ]

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Wayne de Geere III

....clip....

"6x Burroughs B-7971 B7971 Nixie Tube Vintage TESTED"

...clip.....

[Terry S]

I'm not so sure about the "money shot". The seller probably just
caught the clock ticking over from 11:54:59 to 11:55:00.

Still, that clock doesn't use all the B7971 segments.

>   ...clip.....- Hide quoted text -

[David Forbes]

On 6/29/11 2:04 AM, Wayne de Geere III wrote:
>
> Now that seller has got a full old clock with a bunch of cathode
> poisoned looking tubes in it for sale:
> check out the money shot: http://jpegbay.com/gallery/001031521-.html#9
>

That is a nice vintage clock. It looks like it was made as a production
item - note the fancy metal and wooden case work.

It's amazing that it still works after all those 35 years. Those
electrolytic caps look ancient.

[Adam Jacobs]

That was the first thing I noticed, too. Those are the old paper & oil electrolytic caps, I think. In tube radios it is common practice to replace those as fast as possible. They have a nasty habit of shorting closed when they fail and taking out expensive and difficult to replace components when they do.

-Adam

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[Wayne de Geere III]

Funny you should mention that.

Back around the end of high school, I worked at an AM/FM radio station in the engineering department. We had, like every radio station at the time (mid 1980s) a lot of ITC cart machines in our studios. Those cart machines were full of caps like these that all eventually dried up and failed. We replaced so many of these caps that there eventually came to be a bin box in our shop full of them labeled "ITC droppings" by our chief engineer.

When I saw the high res photo of that cap, that's the first thing that I pictured in my mind, all those dead caps.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.

[James]

On Jun 24, 11:59 am, Wayne de Geere III <wa...@deGeere.com> wrote:
> This story is breaking my heart. For that sort of breakage, it would have made sense to fly out there and pack them up yourselves. I have to admit, the mea culpas i carry with me would make grown men cry, I know how this feels.
>
>



At the time I bought them they were $99/dozen so hardly worth flying
somewhere to get. I bought two batches and had one broken tube in each
batch, annoys me to no end that some people just can't be bothered to
pack anything properly.

Looking back I wish I had bought more, but I never guessed they'd have
the mass appeal to be worth so much now.

[James]

On Jun 26, 6:17 am, Nicholas Stock <nickst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Not sure I understand... I always keep an eye on eBay for tube bargains.. Unfortunately those seem to be getting rarer these days as people are asking crazy prices for nixies etc....
>


Didn't they change it recently so you can relist for free if the item
doesn't sell? I still find bargains on some items, but many things are
listed at absurd prices and just get relisted over and over.

[JohnK]

Generally, old electrolytic caps that have just been allowed to sit can be
re-formed and henceforth operate properly. This allows the vintage component
to remain in the vintage set. [Second-last resort is to hide a new type
inside the old case. Last resort is to 'destroy' the vintage item by a
butchery replacement. [Always keep all the old components for the next
owner].

There are military re-former equipments. One has a table of capacitance vs
allowed leakage current vs voltage. Google for more info - but beware the
Audiophools.

John Kaesehagen.
[PS. Reforming is just the [slow] application of a [preferably guarded]
voltage to the capacitor - exactly as was done during manufacture. ]

----- Original Message -----
From: Adam Jacobs
That was the first thing I noticed, too. Those are the old paper & oil
electrolytic caps, I think. In tube radios it is common practice to replace

those as fast as possible. ...clip....

[Nick]

On Jun 30, 8:53 am, "JohnK" <yend...@internode.on.net> wrote:
> Generally, old electrolytic caps that have just been allowed to sit can be
> re-formed and henceforth operate properly.

That's a bit of a sweeping statement. Of the kit I've rebuilt, the
electrolytics have typically dried out, and thus cannot be reformed.
Many were not sealed well and as they were operating is a hostile-ish
environment (near tubes and other sources of heat), they often dry
completely.

Nick

[JohnK]

Yes it was wasn't it.

However the scenario I had in mind [and my experience] both allow for
'probably' OK.
The mil capacitors of post-war gear have been good for treatment if just
lousy due to storage time.
The capacitors in old commercial radios any era depend on manufacturer. I
don't collect them but had re-furbished two with sentimental value - hence
the caps are disconnected and new types 'temporarily' fitted. This is to
protect the mains transformer as much as anything else. Added thermal fuse
to transformers as insurance -weak as it may be.
WWII caps are hit and miss.

The capacitors that you mention "a hostile-ish environment (near tubes and
other sources of heat)," are in a category that I call Faulty or worn out. I
am/was talking about OK caps that were stored for ages - they can be
revitalised [generally] and I hear such comments from WWII Rx collectors eg
WS19 which is much in vogue over your way.

I have had more trouble with 'modern' caps. Even the manufacturers specs
don't give you much confidence in commercial quality electros. I can
remember the probs we [a gov dept] experienced at inwards goods - eg the
Philips electros came in different 'life' categories. They were marked the
same; only difference was the physical size. Some suppliers were either
trying it on or were as ignorant as some of our inspectors !

With 'modern' gear I replace instead of mucking about; and some collector
will rant and rave about it in 50 years :-))

Speaking of modern - a capacitor characteristic often overlooked in current
times is the manufacturer specified operating voltage RANGE. Using a cap
well below the marked voltage causes it to do two things; lose capacitance
and also become resistive [ie leaky, but not liquid if you follow me]. In
the 90s I was trouble-shooter at a largish [>2000 employee] local company
and there were product recalls due to acceptance of electro caps of higher
than specified voltage. eg 50V instead of 6V. The circuit already worked at
a non-optimum <2.5V across the cap and that was acknowledged in the design.

I guess I was motivated by my hate of needless destruction of old gear.
Attempt a reform - replace if required.

John K.
[PS The very old electros that slosh when you move them are better
'temporarily' replaced as I have done in my old Airzone. An explosion of
those is a real mess and dangerous. The explosion of a typical WWII and
later type just results in a bit of paste splatter and tons of paper and
foil. (says I who had just moved his unprotetced eyes to the other side of
my home-made 6 x 807 surplus parts guitar amp. As a schoolboy I just
purchased the WWII surplus caps and wired them up. 800V parts and used at
650V. )]

[PPS. I suppose this is one of those topics you mentioned that moved
off-topic is it?]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick" <ni...@desmith.net>

On Jun 30, 8:53 am, "JohnK" <yend...@internode.on.net> wrote:
> Generally, old electrolytic caps that have just been allowed to sit can be
> re-formed and henceforth operate properly.

[Tidak Ada]

Isn't it that electrocaps that ar strongly over rated in working voltage,
wear out sooner as caps that are working close below the max voltage? This
due to electrochemical degradation of the electrolytic dielectrum. Actualy
the same as due to long storage.

eric

From: "Nick" <ni...@desmith.net>

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[threeneurons]

| I have had more trouble with 'modern' caps. ...

|
| Speaking of modern - a capacitor characteristic often overlooked in
current
| times is the manufacturer specified operating voltage RANGE. Using a
cap
| well below the marked voltage causes it to do two things; lose
capacitance
| and also become resistive [ie leaky, but not liquid if you follow
me].

| ... product recalls due to acceptance of electro caps of higher

| than specified voltage. eg 50V instead of 6V.
|

| John K.

That reminds me of some advice some 'old timers' use to give me. As
opposed to resistors, where you use power ratings 2 to 4x the power
actually being dissipated, with electrolytics, you want to run them as
close as the max rated voltage as possible. Even occasionally going
over the rated voltage, was okay, according to the old guys. You don't
see that advice given in modern data sheets. They could have spec'd
the caps differently back then.

It does make some sense, considering how the dielectric layer is
'formed'. If the applied voltage is too low, then the dielectric layer
may degrade. Raising the ESR, initially, but may cause the cap to
become leaky (electrons, not goo, but goo may follow).

If you look at how electrolytics are made, its pretty amazing that
they work at all:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolytic_capacitor

Their specs are pretty crappy, compared to other types. All they got
going for them is capacitance density. Of course, I still use them.

Don't get me started on tantalums !

[JohnK]

Depends on def of 'old-timer' - I am >60 :-)
The caps I mentioned caused probs in mid1990s . The life-vs-volts was
available in the manufacturer data that the Lab used. Often very detailed
spec sheets were sourced from the manufacturers. And capacitor purchases
were in the millions - promoted a degree of cooperation.

>"with electrolytics, you want to run them as

> close as the max rated voltage as possible." is exactly what I was
> attempting to impart :-((

John K.

[Adam Jacobs]

This is a perspective that I'm very familiar with and it is a popular
one on the Swan users list. I think it has to do with the preferred
end-result:
1) A restoration
or
2) A "fix"

My first HF rig was a Swan 500c that was given to me broken about a year
ago. My only previous experience with vintage radios of any kind was an
old console AM radio that I repaired in my teens (Has anyone tried to
plug in that piece of furniture? I'll bet I can make it work).. I
learned a lot about HF Transceivers and Swan transceivers in particular,
but one of the things I found above all else is that you could divide
the users into the above two groups. The second being the "users" group.
You could ask a question of the group like: "Hey, how much drift should
these rigs have when they are properly warmed up and in good working
condition?" and you'd get a response like, "Mine sits on the shelf! It
doesn't drift at all! (hur, hur)".. A typical response of a restorer.
Once restored, the rig goes into perfect museum mode. I'm not trying to
knock those people, it's their hobby, but it's different than mine. My
objective was to make a daily driver, not a museum piece. It is simply a
matter of fact that _sometimes_ (non-zero), when those oil & paper
capacitors fail, they short. When that happens in a radio, you're
getting plate voltages headed into parts of the rig that are not
designed to have plate voltages. Better safe than sorry.

I found that there are basically two problems with replacing old caps
with modern caps:
1) The modern caps are WAY smaller than the old caps, requiring a bit of
ingenuity at times to figure out the best way to place them
2) The old caps sometimes leaked current even when new, and the circuit
was designed around that fact. You replace a cap with a modern one, and
all of a sudden the circuit doesn't work anymore. Solution is to add a
bleeder resistor across the cap, to allow a small amount of current leak
through like the original did.

When I replaced the original 6LQ6 finals with 31LQ6's (6LQ6 is $70/each,
31LQ6 is $15/each) I was met with either horror [from the restorers] or
requests for information on how it is done [from the users]. The power
supply in my rig is a chopped up mess, but is more functional than the
original ever was. The original "multi-cap can" electrolytic is now just
there for looks, the real caps are installed on the board below.

About the only caps that I found to still be in good working condition
in this rig (~1968) were the ceramic disc caps. Those were all still
working great, even the HV ones. A lot of the resistors had failed,
though.. Some of those resistor divider circuits that were designed to
have 100k resistors now had 30k resistors. I didn't know that resistors
did that, but I do now. :)

-Adam

[neutron spin]

From what I have heard that electrolytic capacitor chemical
ingredients are treated like the "Holy Grail" by the capacitor
manufacturers. The formulations are protected since this can make or
break a manufacturer. The voltage and capacitance of course is
determined by the chemical composition of the electrolyte and the
physical size and material composition. Companies are quite aware of
what badly designed products can do to thier business...regards...

[Nick]

On Jun 30, 2:01 pm, "JohnK" <yend...@internode.on.net> wrote:

> [PPS. I suppose this is one of those topics you mentioned that moved
> off-topic is it?]

Mea culpa !

[James]

Dried out electrolytic capacitors are one of the most common failures
in far more modern equipment too. While I try to restore old gear as
close to original as possible, I restore it to use it and electrolytic
capacitors get replaced. I've occasionally placed new capacitors
inside the gutted housings of the old parts but that's a lot of work
so the technique is reserved to particular pieces.