About this type edge lit display.

[TouMu]

(edited by Moderators to fix links)

Hi all,

I found some displays in my boxes.

They came with original box but no datasheet.

I can light it by 5V,and I think 6.3V is better.

The photos cannot upload,so I have to upload to photobucket.

http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b539/bb00822/RK-6%20displays/WP_000221_zps430fdaca.jpg

http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b539/bb00822/RK-6%20displays/WP_000220_zpsd2e28b29.jpg

http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b539/bb00822/RK-6%20displays/WP_000222_zps37a8a39c.jpg

If the photos are unavailable,Please click and see

on my photobucket

 

There some useful information on the back of each tubes:

" READOUT INDICATOR

TYPE RK-6

LAMP VOL 6.3V

ALCO ELECTRONIC PRODUCTS INC.

RODAN   LAWRENCE  MASS JAPAN

"

They looks pretty.

But there just are 5pcs.

So,Has anyone seen this display before?

if you have,and you can trade with me,please let me know.

Or,I have to copy one in the future.

Cheers!

TouMu

[greg...@hotmail.com]

The closest thing I've seen was a digital voltmeter I had years ago and converted it into a clock. The display was a single unit of 5 digits, and there were individual type 527 (I think that's the number; very commonly used for illuminated switches from the 1960's thru 1980's). Those bulbs were rated for 100,000 hours of usage at 5V.

If I were you, I would go ahead and build the clock (just guessing here, but isn't that what most of us do with these vintage displays ?) for 6 digits in case you are lucky enough to find another unit, and use it as an hours:minutes display for now.

BTW, I threw the clock away about 10 years ago because the stepper-relays were intermittent despite multiple attempts to clean them

[John Rehwinkel]

I found some displays in my boxes.

They came with original box but no datasheet.

I can light it by 5V,and I think 6.3V is better.

So,Has anyone seen this display before?

I had a voltmeter with those displays.  Hang on to 'em, they're really nice (or you can sell 'em for a fair bit).

if you have,and you can trade with me,please let me know.

Or,I have to copy one in the future.

I've seen people make their own edge-lit displays like this using laser cutters or CNC mills to cut the digits

into clear plastic.  You can light the layers with incandescent bulbs or LEDs.

Assorted useful links:

http://softsolder.com/2013/09/11/edge-lit-acrylic-nixie-display-doodles/

http://www.tubeclockdb.com/forum/Builders-Forum/2956-Edgelit-Reloaded.html?limit=10&start=10

http://www.decadecounter.com/vta/articleview.php?item=1085

http://users.rcn.com/ted.johnson/erc_clock.htm

http://users.rcn.com/ted.johnson/Scratchitti.htm

http://www.stevenjohnson.com/nls/index.htm

- John

[Bill S]

I've seen edgelit displays in General Radio Equipment with digits 1 thru 0. The displays were made id England by KGM Electronics in the 60's I think and I believe they used type 327 or 330 bulbs. I sold a Synchronometer using these displays on ebay back in April and it can be seen here: < http://www.ebay.com/itm/GENERAL-RADIO-TYPE-1123-SYNCHRONOMETER-CLOCK-AND-TIME-CONTROLLER-/261439361957?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdf0013a5>. The displays were really interesting and they worked really well. With so many bulbs though, they constantly had to be replaced.
Bill_S

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[Dave Brown]

Yes-those KGM displays are really quite interesting.
 Has anyone come up with an LED replacement for the bulbs in them?
DaveB,
Christchurch, NZ

[TouMu]

Uh,5v looks dark,may be 6.3v will be batter?And may the 5v will let it have a long life.

Right,I wanna make a clock ;) Or I will copy one for my clock.:)

[TouMu]

Wow,Thanks for that useful information.

But I dont wanna sell them,because they came with the great conditions.

I may copy one by use the plastic,but still use the 6.3V bulbs.

The LEDs looks not good :(

[TouMu]

The price of that equipment are very high.about 1300USD...

I have seen some displays made by IEE before.

Right,they looks well.

[petehand]

They are nice displays - I had a handful of them once, that plugged in to a multi pin socket.

Now I have a few of these - rather special ones, made by Stanley Electronics, Tokyo.

[petehand]

This is what they were made for and what they look like lit up. There are color filters between the lamps and the acrylic. The machine is a small bartop slot machine, made around 1970. It's tiny, about 12 inches in each direction. It was a complete wreck when I got it, but it cleaned up nicely.

[Nick]

On Monday, 19 May 2014 00:37:22 UTC+1, Dave Brown wrote:

Yes-those KGM displays are really quite interesting.
 Has anyone come up with an LED replacement for the bulbs in them?

I've tried a few, but LEDs have a few characteristics which are not helpful, e.g. they are pretty directional.

Also, the dimensions of the "grain of wheat" sizes of LEDs on eBay are not very accurate - I bought a few different batches to try, as well as some grain-of-wheat incandescents, and most were a few thou too large :(

Nick

[Morris Odell]

Hi all,

A few years ago I built a 6 digit clock using those indicators. They are multiplexed and the clock looks terrific. Mine uses 12V flange based bulbs. The downside is that the bulbs don't last all that long when multiplexed at the theoretically correct voltage of 12 * sqrt(6) = 30 V (approx). Those little bulbs are not easy to find. The local professional suppliers (RS or Farnell) have them but you need to buy 100 at a time. I have had some success substituting LEDs as the quality and colour of high intensity warm white LEDs have improved. Once I run out of my last purchase of 100 bulbs which should be in about a year at the current rate, I'll install them. It won't look quite the same but them's the breaks. 

Substituting LEDs is not straightforward. The issue with LEDs is that the light intensity is maximal in one direction while a small hot filament quasi-isotropically radiates in all directions. The bulb housings are like an integrating sphere with a slit where the edge of the perspex picks up the light. If the LED radiating direction does not coincide with the slit you lose a lot of it so even with very bright 5 mm LEDS the display looks dim compared to when a bulb is used. Recently I picked up a batch of warm white LEDs which have short bodies thus allowing more of the light to be bounced around inside the integrating housing and they are not too bad. I've got quite a collection now of unsuitable high intensity white LEDs!

Morris

On Monday, 19 May 2014 09:37:22 UTC+10, Dave Brown wrote:

Yes-those KGM displays are really quite interesting.
 Has anyone come up with an LED replacement for the bulbs in them?

DaveB,
Christchurch, NZ

[Dave Brown]

Morris, Nick- Thanks for comments.
The displays I have are in a GR 1123 syncronometer. I need to replace a few
lamps and get one of the counter decade dividers operating properly
again.(That WILL be a challenge!) I was aware from my own experiments and
those of others in similar LED replacement situations that the directional
properties are a significant disadvantage sometimes. Someone suggested
sanding the whole surface of the lens so it becomes 'non-clear' and more of
a distributed source but I've not attempted that as yet, mainly as it seems
too difficult given the small sizes involved, so I don't know if it would
improve things at all. A very small sand blaster, using very small
abrasives, operating similarly to the old spark plug cleaners might work- it
needs more thought, as you can no doubt tell!
Cheers
DaveB, NZ

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[Dekatron42]

I have used flat top LEDs which have a somewhat white rough surface, they are not absolutely clear, and then I placed a small amount of clear silicon glue on top of that. The clear silicone glue turns milky white when it sets and that spreads the light some which works quite well in my opinion, not as well as a filament lamp but well enough for me. I also experimented with placing a small round piece of aluminum right above the led chip and reflector to remove the direct light and that helped some but it was tricky to get a uniform light source. I also used a few standard milky white LEDs and filed them down to get different light sources, but the flat top ones worked best.

/Martin

[Tidak Ada]

That sounds like swearing in the church!

eric

-----Original Message-----
From: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Dave Brown
Sent: maandag 19 mei 2014 1:37
To: neoni...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] About this type edge lit display.

[....]

[Instrument Resources of America]

Here's a thought. You MIGHT try to remove the bulbs and then break the
glass and gut the base of the bulb, trying not to damage it. Then fit an
LED into the original base. May, or may NOT be possible. I'll let you
guys figure it out. I'd be interested in knowing if it works. Thinking
out of the box can sometimes yield good results. Ira.

[John Rehwinkel]

A few years ago I built a 6 digit clock using those indicators. They are multiplexed and the clock looks terrific. Mine uses 12V flange based bulbs. The downside is that the bulbs don't last all that long when multiplexed at the theoretically correct voltage of 12 * sqrt(6) = 30 V (approx). Those little bulbs are not easy to find.

Dialight offers 12V flange based LEDs (T1-3/4).  Available via Mouser.

- John

[JohnK]

Morris, maybe try having an idle current in all the lamps - just at the filament starts glowing point [not visibly glowing].

 

Re LEDs, I noticed some small LED Xmas lights that had a bezel with an inverted cone - apex pointing at the LED. They spread light around 'differently'.

 

John K.

----- Original Message -----

From: Morris Odell

To: neoni...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 6:55 PM

Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] About this type edge lit display.

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[Morris Odell]

That's exactly what I've done. As the bulbs failed I saved them and managed to remove the innards while saving the base and not cutting my fingers in the process :-) A 5 mm LED fits in nicely. 

John K's suggestion about idling current is  a good one, but it will involve a rebuild of the clock to fit in the 45 resistors that would be required. The modifications to accommodate LEDS are much easier. 

One tip I would give anyone contemplating using these displays - make sure you allow enough room to undo them easily so you can replace the bulbs. I didn't realise that I would have this problem when I built the clock so bulb replacement involves quite a bit of disassembly and is rather a chore.

Morris

[Quixotic Nixotic]

The UK's National Physical Laboratory had its first open day for two years today, called "Celebrating World Metrology Day", so of course I had to go.

They have a clock that they are still developing that measures a second to 17 decimal places, one more than the current Caesium-driven clocks that establish our UK time standard. It is working today, although it will be some time before it replaces the caesium reference clocks. 

It uses laser light as the oscillator. The frequency of the laser is referenced to a quantum transition in a single atom of Ytterbium, trapped in a vacuum and cooled to within a thousandth of a degree above absolute zero.

I took a few pictures for you.

In the picture below the laser assembly is housed in the natural plywood box which can just be seen at the top left, behind all the gubbins and test bench optics.

In the picture below, the single referenced Ytterbium atom shoots across from left to right through the large red tube.

The atom is caught in the assembly below and counted each time the event happens.

Don't shoot me down if I got something a bit wrong, I am no fizzy-cist. The gist of it should be true, from what the lady who works it told me.

John S

[Quixotic Nixotic]

The NPL Caesium Fountain Clock was declared the most accurate clock in the world in 2011. It is one of the five Caesium clocks at the NPL currently used to realise our SI definition of the second. It contributes to the assessment of International Atomic Time and Coordinated Universal Time. 

The clock goes by the racy title of NPL-CsF2 and will only gain or lose 1 second in over 158 million years.

The unit currently being referenced as the UK's time standard is the second black box at the back of the picture below. The room is locked, for obvious reasons, but I took a picture through the glass window in the door.

John S

[Tidak Ada]

John,

 

That's called a 'bat-wing' named to the shape of the radiation diagram. 

You can get LED's with such a housing (Power LEDs in any case).

 

eric

---

From: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of JohnK
Sent: dinsdag 20 mei 2014 10:26
To: neoni...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] About this type edge lit display.

 [....] 

[Tom Harris]

Don't you just love the combination of beautiful machining, micrometer adjustments and lasers with bits of paper held on with insulation tape?

Tom Harris <celep...@gmail.com>

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