Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Sympols

[Tidak Ada]

Please can somebody trell me where to get those 'neon'-letter chemical symbols of noble gases ? I gXeot the symbols for He, Kr and Xe, but are missing just those  for Ne and Ar. Futher tha He symbol is told me to be outgassed.

Thanks for any information

eric

[Quixotic Nixotic]

[NeonJohn]

The best neon bender I know is Bill Buth. bi...@neonstreet.com. He can
fix you right up.

His Etsy shop: https://www.etsy.com/shop/BillieBoi

He will stay in the tube if boro glass is used. Bill can do that.

Kr is totally boring.

Xe you'll probably want filled to a high enough pressure that it snakes
around in the tube. Bill knows all this stuff too.

I'd fix you up but inconveniently, someone stole my neon plant several
years ago and I haven't been able to replace it.

John

--
John DeArmond
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
http://www.tnduction.com <-- THE source for induction heaters
http://www.neon-john.com <-- email from here
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- Best damned Blog on the net
https://www.etsy.com/shop/BarbraJoanOriginals <-- Affordable Fine Art
Originals
PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77

[Tidak Ada]

Nice Photo's! What is the size of the signs? What I have is about 70×70 mm. Tubing 7,5 mm dia.

John:Thanks for the address! I'll contact them...

eric


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] Namens NeonJohn
Verzonden: donderdag 24 maart 2016 18:57
Aan: neoni...@googlegroups.com
Onderwerp: Re: [neonixie-l] Noble gas 'Neon' Chemical Sympols

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[NeonJohn]

On 03/25/2016 05:33 PM, Tidak Ada wrote:
> Nice Photo's! What is the size of the signs? What I have is about 70×70 mm. Tubing 7,5 mm dia.

>
> John:Thanks for the address! I'll contact them...

You're welcome.

In the US, tubing comes in 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 13, 14 and 17mm dia. Those
are nominal and can vary a bit. I've seen some weird sizes come out of
the orient and mexico.

Most of his stuff is 2 to 2.5' tall. The free-standing signs rest on a
plastic base that contains the transformer. Last year I bought my SIL
(who is ape-shit into flamingos) the cool-ray flamingo - the one with
the blue sunglasses. It comes up to a little above my knees.

Incidentally, another bender in the same class is Tony Greer.
Neon...@aol.com. I've begged him for years to put up a website but he
still displays on some general art site. I think you can find it by
searching his name along with "neon". He does a lot more blown stuff
than Bill does.

John

[John Rehwinkel]

Please can somebody trell me where to get those 'neon'-letter chemical symbols of noble gases ? I gXeot the symbols for He, Kr and Xe, but are missing just those  for Ne and Ar. Futher tha He symbol is told me to be outgassed.

I'm guessing you're also missing Ra, but so is everybody else :).

Those letters are available from Max Whitby at

http://www.periodictable.co.uk/

and Jürgen Bauer at

http://www.smart-elements.com/

- John

[gregebert]

I think you mean Rn (Radon), rather than Ra (Radium).....

[John Rehwinkel]

> I think you mean Rn (Radon), rather than Ra (Radium).....

You're right, I realized it after I posted it.

- John

[NeonJohn]

I did leave Rn out but not unintentionally. I'm not sure enough Rn has
ever been collected in one spot to fill the letters Rn. If that was
possible and the contents added to the tubing, viewing the "Rn" would be
your dying wish!

Of course, one could sprinkle some Pb-210 into the tube. That's the
first Radon daughter with a useful half-life (about 22 years.)

That would actually work pretty well, as the remaining daughters decay
with either beta or alpha particles. Both are good for stimulating
phosphors and neither will penetrate the glass, though a little
Bremsstrahlung X-rays will be produced from the beta particles.

Of course, the tube would not fill with a uniform glow. There would be
bright speckles everywhere a particle of Pb-210 landed.

John

On 03/26/2016 01:57 PM, gregebert wrote:
> I think you mean Rn (Radon), rather than Ra (Radium).....
>
>

[A_Nonamus]

I understand that with a half-life of 3.8 days, getting a discharge tube of any appreciable size full of it would be problematic to put it mildly. But is it possible to closely mimic its spectrum and thus make a "simulated" radon tube?

[Jeff Walton]

Lots of basements with radon to spare...  Too bad you can't collect that. 

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[JohnK]

Build a Tesla Coil in the basement?

 

John K

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[Tidak Ada]

Interesting, but € 75,- is a bit expensive……

 

If I ever could obtain Pb-210.

 

eric

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[Tidak Ada]

May it be there is a getter like material that can produce RN, like the Pb-210 John mentioned?

 

eric

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[franetic]

I don't think Pb-210 (being a decay product of Rn-222) will ever produce Rn. Perhaps the best bet (and still very unfeasible) is Radium Ra-226 which decays directly into Rn-222 via alpha decay with a half life of 1.6 kyears. (That's how the first emission spectrum of Rn was obtained.) That said, you would need quite a bit of Ra-226 to keep enough Rn in your tube, as half of Rn will decay in less than 4 days. 

Best,

Damir

[NeonJohn]

On 03/27/2016 07:06 AM, Tidak Ada wrote:
> May it be there is a getter like material that can produce RN, like the Pb-210 John mentioned?

Radium is the source of radon. The problem is its intense
radioactivity. Indeed, a gram of radium defines the Curie, the
traditional measurement of radioactivity.

The problem, other than the high radiation, with placing Ra in an
enclosed vessel is that it quickly reaches secular equilibrium with its
decay products down to Pb-210. In a few decades, it reaches complete
equilibrium with its daughters as the Pb-210 decays into stable lead as
rapidly as it is formed.

To answer another question, the emission spectrum looks similar to
krypton so the glow discharge would probably be indistinguishable.

I looked at the Wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radon
(surprisingly good if you ignore most of the health effects). I was
surprised to find that Lord Rutherford isolated enough of the gas in
1908 to get its discharge spectrum.

According to the Wiki article, in high enough concentrations, Radon is
also radioluminescent, either green or yellow, probably depending on the
concentration.

To address another comment, Pb-210 is available in regulatory exempt
quantities (5uCi I think) from Spectrum Sources. Higher quantities if
one obtains a license.

John

[John Rehwinkel]

> Radium is the source of radon.

So are some isotopes of thorium.

> The problem, other than the high radiation, with placing Ra in an
> enclosed vessel is that it quickly reaches secular equilibrium with its
> decay products down to Pb-210.

Oh, there's another problem. Various phases of the decay chain release alpha particles, which
are helium nuclei, and stable. For each radon atom created (which only last a few days), ultimately
six helium atoms are also created. So you won't ever reach equilibrium, the helium will rapidly overtake
the radon, and the pressure will (extremely) gradually rise as the helium accumulates.

> To answer another question, the emission spectrum looks similar to
> krypton so the glow discharge would probably be indistinguishable.

Also true, but as I explained above, you'd be looking at a helium discharge anyway.

> According to the Wiki article, in high enough concentrations, Radon is
> also radioluminescent, either green or yellow, probably depending on the
> concentration.

Cool!

- John

[NeonJohn]

On 03/27/2016 10:56 AM, John Rehwinkel wrote:

>> The problem, other than the high radiation, with placing Ra in an
>> enclosed vessel is that it quickly reaches secular equilibrium with its
>> decay products down to Pb-210.
>
> Oh, there's another problem. Various phases of the decay chain release alpha particles, which
> are helium nuclei, and stable. For each radon atom created (which only last a few days), ultimately
> six helium atoms are also created. So you won't ever reach equilibrium, the helium will rapidly overtake
> the radon, and the pressure will (extremely) gradually rise as the helium accumulates.

Yes one would reach nuclear equilibrium. The helium buildup is a
separate phenomena than the nuclear decay. The helium would grow to
dominate the emission spectrum but the Radon lines will be there too.
That's why I estimate that the discharge would look like Krypton.

As I would start with an evacuated tube, the helium pressure buildup
would take decades to reach atmospheric pressure, depending on the
quantity of radium present.

I have (well, had. It got stolen.) a 10mCi Ra Brachytherapy source.
Tiny gold capsule over 50 years old. Still no leakage or helium bulge -
at least until it got stolen.

[Tidak Ada]

I misinterpreted John’s posting. Sorry, John

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