Pulaski Skyway in Boston?
Brian Connors
16 near the Fortress building. Here's my problem: what, exactly, is/was
the Pulaski skyway? Most every map I've seen indicates that it was the
northern ramp to the unbuilt I-95 section of the Inner Belt; that, of
course, was torn down and replaced by the current Frontage Road/Bypass
Road/Melnea Cass interchange at Exit 18.
Based on the location of the sign, though, it seems like it was meant to
refer to the elevated section of road in that area that is now at grade
level (and probably included the Inner Belt ramps), and could now be
considered to refer to the two exits' worth of frontage road ramps.
Anyone know the exact answer to this, and does this sign actually belong
there or is it just something nobody's bothered to take down yet?
/Brian
John F. Carr
Brian Connors <conn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>There is still a sign for this thing on the SE Expwy, just south of Exit
>16 near the Fortress building. Here's my problem: what, exactly, is/was
>the Pulaski skyway? Most every map I've seen indicates that it was the
>northern ramp to the unbuilt I-95 section of the Inner Belt; that, of
>course, was torn down and replaced by the current Frontage Road/Bypass
>Road/Melnea Cass interchange at Exit 18.
According to the MassHighway road inventory, the Southeast Expressway
is the "General Casimir Pulaski Skyway" between exit 12 and exit 18.
--
John Carr (j...@mit.edu)
Pete from Boston
I think the "Skyway" includes the portion that is elevated between the
South Station tunnels and Mass Ave.
I say take it down. The amount of road the name even applies to is
tiny. Few people distinguish this section based on anything else (it's
just the last leg of the Southeast Exspressway) and frankly it's not
particularly close to the sky, especially when compared with its more
famous namesake in New Jersey.
If you go throwing little-known names like that around on the signs
too much (or too little), you make an already vexing city even more
nervewracking, even to local drivers.
John F. Carr
Pete from Boston <mass...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>If you go throwing little-known names like that around on the signs
>too much (or too little), you make an already vexing city even more
>nervewracking, even to local drivers.
Although the legislature spends little effort on substantive law,
among their favorite activities is naming roads and bridges after
people. Sometimes they do so without realizing that the object
has already been officially named.
See, e.g.,
http://www.state.ma.us/legis/laws/seslaw02/sl020104.htm
(In part, designating Route 1 in Foxborough as ``The Home
of the New England Patriots, Super Bowl XXXVI Champions.'')
http://www.state.ma.us/legis/laws/seslaw00/sl000296.htm
http://www.state.ma.us/legis/laws/seslaw00/sl000025.htm
http://www.state.ma.us/legis/laws/seslaw00/sl000395.htm
Imagine if all these names (as well as the countless squares
in the Boston area) were used by the online mapping services.
--
John Carr (j...@mit.edu)
David S Chesler
> and frankly it's not
> particularly close to the sky, especially when compared with its more
> famous namesake in New Jersey.
Who was this Pulaski guy? And why did they name not one but two
skyways after him?
I doubt that there will ever be another Leonard P. Zakim Bunker Hill Bridge,
but there are (were) two Hayden Planetaria and two World Trade Centers.
(This is completely different from the Original Ray's Pizza issue.)
--
- David Chesler <che...@post.harvard.edu>
Adam Kippes
wrote:
> Who was this Pulaski guy?
Try reading some history of the, oh, 1775-1783 period. There are things
all over the country named for him
> And why did they name not one but two skyways after him?
To honor him, I would assume.
> I doubt that there will ever be another Leonard P. Zakim Bunker Hill Bridge,
I should think not since he wasn't of much importance, even hereabouts.
-- AK
--
Please reply to the newsgroup. That is why it exists.
Robert Winters
> Who was this Pulaski guy? And why did they name not one but two
> skyways after him?
http://www.cviog.uga.edu/Projects/gainfo/pulaski1.htm
Robert Winters
Lee Rudolph
>In <3e64214a.02080...@posting.google.com>, David S Chesler
>wrote:
>
>> Who was this Pulaski guy?
>
>Try reading some history of the, oh, 1775-1783 period. There are things
>all over the country named for him
Including (unless my memory is playing me false, or the ebb and flow
of ethnic groups in my home town has sufficiently disempowered the
Polacks since my time there) a "Pulaski Square" in Cleveland, Ohio,
(ObNE: part of the Western Reserve of Connecticut) that is in fact
a (rather small) triangular traffic island.
Lee Rudolph
J. Scarborough
> Who was this Pulaski guy? And why did they name not one but two
> skyways after him?
Pulaski was a Polish noble exiled from Poland for opposing the king.
He came to America to fight on the side of the colonists in the
Revolutionary War and eventually was killed in battle. Highway names
are the least of his honors; in Illinois, his birthday is a state
holiday.
While we're on the subject of famous Poles and Boston-area roadways,
one of Pulaski's countrymen and fellow hero of the American
Revolution, Thaddeus Kosciuszko, has a rotary named for him just a
stone's throw from Casimir's skyway: it's the one that connects
Columbia Rd. and Morrissey Blvd., next to the Bayside Expo Center.
> I doubt that there will ever be another Leonard P. Zakim Bunker Hill Bridge,
Good. More convoluted names like that we don't need. It should be the
Leonard P. Zakim Bridge, plain and simple.
> but there are (were) two Hayden Planetaria and two World Trade Centers.
Actually, there are World Trade Centers all over the place -- not just
here in Boston. Though I doubt that name will grace a new development
ever again. (and is the plural of planetarium really "planeteria"?)
Stuart Brorson
: che...@post.harvard.edu (David S Chesler) wrote in message news:<3e64214a.02080...@posting.google.com>...
:> Who was this Pulaski guy? And why did they name not one but two
:> skyways after him?
: Pulaski was a Polish noble exiled from Poland for opposing the king.
: He came to America to fight on the side of the colonists in the
: Revolutionary War and eventually was killed in battle. Highway names
: are the least of his honors; in Illinois, his birthday is a state
: holiday.
Also, in Chicago there is a Pulaski Skyway, which is one of the
expressways running south out of the city (I forget which one). That
makes a total of Three Pulaski Skyways that I am aware of: One each
in NJ, Chicago, and Boston.
Does anybody have any idea why so many roads were named after
Mr. Pulaski? I mean, why not name bridges (or something else) after
him, instead of "Skyways"?
: While we're on the subject of famous Poles and Boston-area roadways,
: one of Pulaski's countrymen and fellow hero of the American
: Revolution, Thaddeus Kosciuszko, has a rotary named for him just a
: stone's throw from Casimir's skyway: it's the one that connects
: Columbia Rd. and Morrissey Blvd., next to the Bayside Expo Center.
Don't forget the Kosciuszko bridge, connecting Brooklyn & Queens via
the BQE in NYC!!! cf:
http://www.nycroads.com/roads/brooklyn-queens/
(Scroll down a little bit in order to get to the bridge . . . . .)
:> I doubt that there will ever be another Leonard P. Zakim Bunker Hill Bridge,
: Good. More convoluted names like that we don't need. It should be the
: Leonard P. Zakim Bridge, plain and simple.
How about the "Bunker Hill Bridge", plain and simple?
Stuart
David Chesler
> Does anybody have any idea why so many roads were named after
> Mr. Pulaski? I mean, why not name bridges (or something else) after
> him, instead of "Skyways"?
That's what I was wondering. (Now that I think of it, what's
a skyway?)
> Don't forget the Kosciuszko bridge, connecting Brooklyn & Queens via
> the BQE in NYC!!!
There is a theory that Kossuth Avenue in the northwest Bronx was
supposed to be named not for the Hungarian freedom fighter whose
statue graces Riverside Drive, but for the aforementioned Pole.
The pronunciations aren't that different; some folks may find the
one spelling easier than the other. (The last time I read John
McNamara's "History in Asphalt" it was a collection of notes at
the Varian-Valentine House which Lloyd Ultan let me look through.)
--
- David Chesler <che...@post.harvard.edu>
A wife shall be entitled to a right of interment for her own body in any
burial lot or tomb of which her husband was seized at any time during coverture,
which shall be exempt from the operation of the laws regulating conveyance,
descent, and devise, but may be released by her in the same manner as dower.
A husband shall have the same rights in the tomb or burial lot of his wife
as a wife has in that of her husband. MGL C. 114 ss. 32-33
J. Scarborough
> : Good. More convoluted names like that we don't need. It should be the
> : Leonard P. Zakim Bridge, plain and simple.
>
> How about the "Bunker Hill Bridge", plain and simple?
>
> Stuart
Because there's already a Bunker Hill Monument, Bunker Hill Park,
Bunker Hill Community College, etc. Isn't that name already featured
prominently enough around Boston without adding it to a bridge as
well? I was somewhat mystified when the debate over the bridge name
was raging why there was so much support for the "Bunker Hill"
designation. Let's try to be a little bit more original.
Tom Nelligan
> I was somewhat mystified when the debate over the bridge name
> was raging why there was so much support for the "Bunker Hill"
> designation.
Probably because "Bunker Hill Bridge" has a nice rhythm and the name has
a clear connection with the location.
Mr. Zakim was by all press accounts a good man who worked to promote
good causes, but he was basically a political insider known only to his
fellow political insiders. Folks like that usually get a square named
after them, not a landmark.
John Mara
"Tom Nelligan" <nell...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3D4C252C...@ix.netcom.com...
> Mr. Zakim was by all press accounts a good man who worked to promote
> good causes, but he was basically a political insider known only to his
> fellow political insiders. Folks like that usually get a square named
> after them, not a landmark.
Who was Tobin or Sumner or Callahan or Logan?
John Mara
Robert Winters
Or John Harvard, for that matter.
Robert Winters
Brian Connors
scar4...@aol.com (J. Scarborough) wrote:
I think the choice of Leonard Zakim was a bit of a joke on the part of
the powers that be in Boston; as head of the local ADL, his job had to
do with eliminating discrimination; "building bridges", metaphorically
speaking. It's certainly an appropriate choice.
As for the Bunker Hill part of it... normally I'd consider it a rather
offensive power grab on the part of some very closed-minded Townies, but
the Zakim family signed off on it...
/brian
Brian Connors
And the name still applies despite the fact that there doesn't seem to
be a single square foot of the original roadway left anywhere south of
Downtown.
While Pulaski is certainly deserving of having something like that named
after him, the thing simply doesn't exist anymore. Better, perhaps, to
rename the entire expressway after him?
/Brian
J. Scarborough
> Probably because "Bunker Hill Bridge" has a nice rhythm and the name has
> a clear connection with the location.
>
> Mr. Zakim was by all press accounts a good man who worked to promote
> good causes, but he was basically a political insider known only to his
> fellow political insiders. Folks like that usually get a square named
> after them, not a landmark.
Though he may not have been a household name, Zakim was hardly just a
"political insider." Zakim was a prominent voice on social issues in
the city for decades and an adviser to many of Boston's top leaders.
Had I been asked to come up with a list of people to name the new
bridge after, his would not have been one I thought of. But now that
the bridge _is_ named after him I see nothing wrong with it. Who says
our major roads and bridges need to be named after widely known
figures? How many Bostonians remember who Sumner, Callahan, or Tobin
were? The beauty of naming a structure after a lesser-known personage
such as Zakim is that it keeps his name in the public eye, and may
inspire those who don't know who Zakim was to find out, if merely for
the trivia value. Studying the names of a city's monuments is a good
way of learning about a place's history. What a flat and boring
history lesson it would be if we picked a handful of names and used
them as designations for everything. There are plenty of Bunker Hills
and Quincys and Washingtons. A lot has happened in Boston since the
Revolutionary War. Let the names of our public places reflect that.
Brian Connors
Brian Connors <conn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> And the name still applies despite the fact that there doesn't seem to
> be a single square foot of the original roadway left anywhere south of
> Downtown.
Check that -- at least from Exit 16 to the South Station Tunnel.
/Brian
Bill N1VUX
> but there are (were) two Hayden Planetaria and two World Trade Centers.
Two? Try over 300 World Trade Centers!!!
"The World Trade Centers Association is an organization of nearly 300 World
Trade Centers in almost 100 countries, connected to expand your global
business." http://iserve.wtca.org/
WTC NY was the mothership. 338 centers at last count, 500,000 corporate
members, 100 countries. WTCBoston is not even the only one between NYC and
Halifax, there's WTC-Bridgeport (rather smaller than Boston and even Hallifax,
apparently). In addtion to WTC-LA, there's WTC-Long Beach as well.
WTC-Boston will be host of the 2nd Annual Monster Challenge International
Triathlon on Labor-Day-Sunday; get there early, as it's over before noon.
-- bill
Pntx
> Who was Tobin or Sumner or Callahan or Logan?
>
> John Mara
>
Maurice Tobin -Governor
Sumner - Major land developer in East Boston (Noodles Island)
Callahan-KIA in W W2 son of Turnpike Chairman when tunnel built.
General Logan do not know his connection to airport. His widow was recently
robbed and left tied up in her house for a couple of days
Adam Kippes
> Callahan-KIA in W W2 son of Turnpike Chairman when tunnel built.
That phrasing could stand improvement!
> General Logan do not know his connection to airport. His widow was recently
> robbed and left tied up in her house for a couple of days
Huh? He died on 6 July 1929... his relic, Patricia, must be one hell of
an old biddy by now. <g>
<http://www.massport.com/logan/faq.html#q20>
David Chesler
> I think the choice of Leonard Zakim was a bit of a joke on the part of
> the powers that be in Boston; as head of the local ADL, his job had to
> do with eliminating discrimination; "building bridges", metaphorically
> speaking. It's certainly an appropriate choice.
Well that was the painful phrase the Governor used to explain the choice.
I don't disagree with the "insider" label: I read the Herald, I have some
interest in things Jewish, I have a bone to pick with the ADL, and the
first I heard of Zakim was his untimely death. A quick Google Groups
check for dates before December 1999 does show that Bruce Springsteen dedicated
a song to him at a concert, and he was mentioned in passing in ne.general
in an article about talk radio. Household name is pushing it.
OTOH, good point John Mara about Tobin and Sumner and Callahan and Logan,
and same for Leverett and Storrow and Weeks and Anderson and F.E. Everett.
I know Paul Newman the actor with a line of spaghetti sauce and lemonade
the profits from which are donated to Liberal causes, but I don't think
that's the Paul F. Newman for whom the bridge is named.
Nationally my impression is that bridges and tunnels tend to be named
for the geographic features they connect or cross (Golden Gate,
Rio-Nitoroi, Brooklyn-Battery, Bronx-Whitestone, Verrazano Narrows)
although the NYC Hudson crossings are named (Washington, Lincoln,
Holland -- which doesn't belong?) as are some interborough crossings
(Kosciuszko, little Washington, Hamilton) and plenty of roadways
(again, who were Bruckner, Sheridan, Deegan, Van Wyck.) Chicago's
roadways are named, usually with some name recognition.
A correspondent sets me straight about World Trade Centers:
} "The World Trade Centers Association is an organization of nearly 300 World
} Trade Centers in almost 100 countries, connected to expand your global
} business." http://iserve.wtca.org/
}
} WTC NY was the mothership. 338 centers at last count, 500,000 corporate
} members, 100 countries.
--
- David Chesler <che...@post.harvard.edu>
Brad Ackerman
"Pntx" <cr...@subdimension.net> wrote:
> Sumner - Major land developer in East Boston (Noodles Island)
What about Senator Charles Sumner (FS-MA)?
<http://www.impeach-andrewjohnson.com/11BiographiesKeyIndividuals/Charles
Sumner.htm>
--
Brad Ackerman N1MNB "Hollywood in general is terrified
bs...@cornell.edu of the notion of ideas."
PGP: 0x62D6B223 -- Samuel R. Delany, NYT 2001/7/8
Pntx
"Adam Kippes" <adam....@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:f6rrku8rtnuv7adu3...@4ax.com...
Correction on Polly Logan :
"Logan is the widow of Edward Logan, the nephew of the man for whom Logan
airport is named." Patriot Ledger July 4 02
Pntx
> > Sumner - Major land developer in East Boston (Noodles Island)
>
> What about Senator Charles Sumner (FS-MA)?
>
> <http://www.impeach-andrewjohnson.com/11BiographiesKeyIndividuals/Charles
> Sumner.htm>
>
> --
> Brad Ackerman N1MNB "Hollywood in general is terrified
> bs...@cornell.edu of the notion of ideas."
> PGP: 0x62D6B223 -- Samuel R. Delany, NYT 2001/7/8
Best I can remember this is from the Herald.
"Eastie founder fulfilled dream from childhood
by Paul Restuccia
Friday, October 5, 2001
East Boston as we know it today is the result of the vision of one man,
William Hyslop Sumner (1780-1861), whose surname survives as a street in the
neighborhood he founded and passes over a traffic-clogged tunnel, named in
his honor, through which vehicles travel under the harbor to downtown
Boston. "
Adam Kippes
> What about Senator Charles Sumner (FS-MA)?
Not according to the turnpike web site:
<http://www.massturnpike.com/about/faq.html>
Adam Kippes
> Correction on Polly Logan :
> "Logan is the widow of Edward Logan, the nephew of the man for whom Logan
> airport is named." Patriot Ledger July 4 02
That makes sense. But even so, she must have been quite elderly. I
wonder how it happened.
Pntx
>
> > "Logan is the widow of Edward Logan, the nephew of the man for whom
Logan
> > airport is named." Patriot Ledger July 4 02
>
> That makes sense. But even so, she must have been quite elderly. I
> wonder how it happened.
http://www.southofboston.com/archives/
Search Polly Logan in the Ledger archives for the story of the home invasion
and follow up stories regarding the handyman