Flashing green traffic lights in MA?
A Satish Pai
While visiting in the Boston suburbs recently I came across some traffic
intersections that had flashing green lights for one of the streets.
Whatever do these mean? Not having seen them anywhere else in the US
and not seeing any signs about them at the intersections I found them
rather unnerving, but drove through them anyway. Are these a Boston
oddity or a Mass.-wide phenomenon?
Curious,
-Satish
Yama Habibzai
: While visiting in the Boston suburbs recently I came across some traffic
I have noticed traffic lights which the red and yellow are on at the
same time!!! What does that mean? Go if there is no cop around?
Betsy Schwartz
of two things:
1) there's a flashing red on the other side and some idiots
won't slow down, so be careful
or
2) A fire station, ambulance station, or other vehicle depot has
control of the light and may change it to red on short notice
(usually seen in the middle of a block)
Betsy Schwartz
and yellow light at the same time indicates that pedestrians can cross? I
dont' remember seeing this in other parts of the country
David Chesler
Betsy Schwartz <bet...@northshore.shore.net> wrote:
>A flashing green means: proceed with caution. In practice it means one
>of two things:
> 1) there's a flashing red on the other side and some idiots
> won't slow down, so be careful
"Proceed with caution, there's a flashing red on the other side" describes
a flashing amber light. And the idiot with the flashing red should treat
it as a Stop sign. (I used to get honked for stopping at the flashing red
at the island in Highland Ave, where it goes two-way, east of Davis Sq,
for coming to a full stop. Now it's a flashing amber.)
>or
> 2) A fire station, ambulance station, or other vehicle depot has
> control of the light and may change it to red on short notice
> (usually seen in the middle of a block)
3) There's a pedestrian crosswalk with a button that could change
it to red-amber (as Betsy described in the other post.) Such poles
should be green with a red, a amber, and another red stripe on
them.
When I helped my roomate get his Mass. driver's license, his pop
quiz question was "What does a flashing green light mean?" and he
said "It means proceed, but the light could change." I think he
passed, but that describes a normal green light as well.
Years ago the two-color traffic lights in upper Manhattan would
go red-green for a few seconds before turning red. I used to think
that this was because they couldn't get the signals synchronized,
and did a make-before-break, but I guess that meant the same as
a amber light elsewhere. (New Yorkers don't use the amber lights,
they count how many times the "Don't Walk" has flashed.)
--
David Chesler (che...@tiac.net - CURRENT che...@world.std.com - SOMETIMES
dche...@jurisoft.com - WORK da...@chesler.absol.com - ALWAYS)
Welcome Lauren Rose Chesler, born July 13, 1995. http://www.absol.com/~lauren/
Stavros Macrakis
>how widespread is this convention that a red and yellow light at
>the same time indicates that pedestrians can cross?
In article <3vod3l$g...@worf.qntm.com> co...@rzdisk.enet.qntm.com (Peter R. Cook) writes:
I've never heard of that. If it says WALK, walk. If it says
don't then don't.
Red and yellow together are used for four-way WALK signals. It's
pretty common around here, but I don't know about the rest of the
country.
-s
Andy Oakland
>
>While visiting in the Boston suburbs recently I came across some traffic
>intersections that had flashing green lights for one of the streets.
Simple! Flashing-green means it may turn to red-and-yellow. Next question?
Both flashing-green and red-and-yellow seem to be Massachusetts-specific.
red-and-yellow means "all traffic stop, this intersection is now a
pedestrian crosswalk." A college roommate of mine was once in a flashing-
green intersection as it turned to red-and-yellow, and he stopped DEAD.
A nearby cop walked over to this car, and said, amazed,
"That's exactly what you're SUPPOSED to do when that happens, but I've
never seen anyone actually DO it!"
:Andy Oakland
s...@mit.edu
Betsy Schwartz
think Garden St, but it might be Concord Ave)
There's a flashing red/flashing green pair on Harvard and Lee in
Mid-Cambridge (I don't think it has a pedestrian button but it's been a
while since I've lived there) and another somewhere in Cambridgeport.
I've never seen a button that changed a flashing green to flashing red/flashing
yellow, but that makes as much sense as any of this. Is there one around here?
Betsy
(making lots of typos today, my net connection is feeling the heat as much
as I am!)
Kenneth Crudup
che...@max.tiac.net (David Chesler) says:
>(New Yorkers don't use the amber lights, they count how many times the "Don't
>Walk" has flashed.)
I do this too, except I use it to measure the length of a green (or most of
the time, how long I've got to try and make it under a light when the other
drivers, who seem to think green lights last &^%&#* forever, are d*cking
around :-( ). 12 blinks of the Don't Walk == 1 yellow light.
-Kenny
--
Kenneth R. Crudup, Unix & OS/2 Software Consultant, Scott County Consulting
ke...@panix.com CI$: 75032,3044 +1 617 524 5929/4949 Home/Office
16 Plainfield St, Boston, MA 02130-3633 +1 617 983 9410 Fax
OS/2 box: pkenny.tiac.net (when I'm online) Get Warp-ed! OS/2 3.0 is here NOW!
Jonathan F Carpenter
>: intersections that had flashing green lights for one of the streets.
>: and not seeing any signs about them at the intersections I found them
>: rather unnerving, but drove through them anyway. Are these a Boston
>: oddity or a Mass.-wide phenomenon?
>
>
>I have noticed traffic lights which the red and yellow are on at the
>same time!!! What does that mean? Go if there is no cop around?
>
So to cars, it means stop and wait for the green.
--jon
Joel B Levin
Betsy Schwartz <bet...@northshore.shore.net (Betsy Schwartz)>
wrote:
|I've never seen a button that changed a flashing green to flashing red/flashing
|yellow, but that makes as much sense as any of this. Is there one around here?
Mild confusion, I think. The flashing green lights should have a
button which turns the lights to solid red and yellow together (or
turn on a "walk" light). A flashing light is either flashing green
one way and red the other, or yellow one way and red the other.
/J
--
Nets: le...@bbn.com | Those who cavalierly reject the Theory of
or j...@levin.mv.com| Evolution, as not adequately supported by facts,
pots: (617)873-3463 | seem quite to forget that their own theory is
ARS: KD1ON | supported by no facts at all. --H. Spencer
Charles M. Kozierok
Andy Oakland <s...@ATHENA.MIT.EDU> wrote:
} Simple! Flashing-green means it may turn to red-and-yellow. Next question?
}
} Both flashing-green and red-and-yellow seem to be Massachusetts-specific.
In Canada a flashing green means something entirely different: it is
called an "advanced green" and it tells you that you have a green
for all turns while the opposing traffic has a red. It is used
in some intersections at the start of the green cycle to give
one direction the chance to make turns before the green stops flashing,
the opposing traffic gets a green, and it turns into a regular
intersection again.
cheers,
-*-
charles
Peter R. Cook
>and yellow light at the same time indicates that pedestrians can cross? I
>dont' remember seeing this in other parts of the country
I've never heard of that. If it says WALK, walk. If it says
don't then don't.
If there are no pedistrain lights then follow the signals for
the care going in your direction.
Daan Sandee
|>
|> While visiting in the Boston suburbs recently I came across some traffic
|> intersections that had flashing green lights for one of the streets.
|> Whatever do these mean? Not having seen them anywhere else in the US
|> and not seeing any signs about them at the intersections I found them
|> rather unnerving, but drove through them anyway. Are these a Boston
|> oddity or a Mass.-wide phenomenon?
I've seen them in plenty of places in the U.S. They are used in case of a
traffic light that is rarely used, as for a fire station exit or possibly
a RR crossing. It means you can ignore it, but should keep watching in
case it should switch to steady yellow (and then red). I think I have seen
them in Cambridge (I'm relatively new here) for push-button pedestrian
crosswalks not associated with a side street.
Daan Sandee san...@think.com
Cambridge, MA 02142
Peter R. Cook
>Red and yellow together are used for four-way WALK signals. It's
>pretty common around here, but I don't know about the rest of the
>country.
Must be a city thing. I is just an ignorant country type folk.
8-)
+-+-+-+-+-+ Peter R. Cook, a software writing, Republican voting, Tama &
Paiste playing, Animaniacs watching, Pete's Wicked drinking, Iron Maiden
loving, Mopar fan. Snail Mail: PRC Records PO Box 627, Marlboro, MA 01752.
Ask me about Blue Steel! It's MY opinion! NOT that of my employer!
Joel B Levin
|of two things:
| 1) there's a flashing red on the other side and some idiots
| won't slow down, so be careful
| 2) A fire station, ambulance station, or other vehicle depot has
| control of the light and may change it to red on short notice
| (usually seen in the middle of a block)
I always thought flashing yellow was the correct light for both
these situations.
Flashing green meant: pedestrian crossing -- this light could change
for a pedestrian.
The pedestrian signal was yellow-red together; when it was time for
pedestrians to stop entering the intersection it would change to
plain red.
These signals are both obsolete, I believe, though a few examples
still exist; and I also believe the are (at least in the last 20
years) unique to Massachusetts.
/JBL
Brian 'Doc' O'Neill
Red-yellow is a holdover from "way back when" before there were separate
"walk-don't-walk" lights for the pedestrians. The color combination was to
indicate to the drivers to stop, and that pedestrians could proceed.
Usually, ALL directions would be red-yellow, but you can see them on
pedestrian-only lights (those with the flashing green).
Of course, it's been a LONG time since I've seen anyone actually PUSH a
pedestrian cross button...
===========================================================================
Brian O'Neill - Director of Computing, Computer Science one...@cs.uml.edu
University of Massachusetts at Lowell
(508) 934-3645
"Nothing's the same anymore." - Sinclair, Babylon 5, _Chrysalis_
Adam M Gaffin
>
>I always thought flashing yellow was the correct light for both
>these situations.
>
>Flashing green meant: pedestrian crossing -- this light could change
>for a pedestrian.
>
>The pedestrian signal was yellow-red together; when it was time for
>pedestrians to stop entering the intersection it would change to
>plain red.
>
>These signals are both obsolete, I believe, though a few examples
>still exist; and I also believe the are (at least in the last 20
>years) unique to Massachusetts.
Ayup. Back in my ol' days at the Middlesex News, there were three or
four truly obscure subjects that, for various reasons, I became
relatively expert in (you cover enough Planning Board meetings, some of
the arcana's just going to stick). One of those subjects was
Massachusetts traffic signals.
Way back in pre-history, like the '20s and '30s, Massachusetts was
actually quite the traffic innovator, for example, by building large
numbers of rotaries (really!). That not being enough, though, we
eventually came up with red-and-yellow pedestrian crossing lights (way
back in '82, when I got my license, one of the questions on the RMV test
was about the purpose of said lights, with one of the possible choices for
its meaning being "cows crossing''). Flashing green meant that the signal
had a pedestrian-crossing button that, when activiated, would turn the
light red or red and yellow.
Shockingly, the rest of the country refused to adopt these conventions,
and so they are not included in the federal Uniform Manual on Traffic
Control Devices (no, I am not making this up!). Since the feds use
compliance with the UMTCD as a condition for receiving federal highway
funds, Massachusetts and its communities have been gradually phasing these
lights out as they wear out (an excellent example being Natick Square,
where I and some volunteers once spent a couple of weeks taking down the
license-plate numbers of cars speeding through the red-and-yellow in an
attempt to get the Registry to send over some traffic cops to protect the
old folks and nursery-school kids forever getting stuck at the lights).
Now, about those four-way stop signs the feds are imposing on us...
--
Adam Gaffin
ad...@world.std.com / (508) 820-7433
The big dummy behind "Everybody's Guide to the Internet"
Visit Boston Online: http://www.std.com/NE/boston.html
Dave Hiebeler
> I've never seen a button that changed a flashing green to flashing
> red/flashing yellow, but that makes as much sense as any of this. Is
> there one around here?
On Beacon St. in Somerville, at the corner of Cooney St. (By
Johnnie's Foodmaster, just a couple of blocks up from Inman Sq. toward
Porter Sq.). The light is flashing green on Beacon. Just this
morning I saw a woman push the button and turn the lights to red &
yellow so she could cross the street. (And then I promptly took the
opportunity to zip across the street on my bike of course!)
--
Dave Hiebeler hieb...@das.harvard.edu ~{:#DZ4fV*<:#,LlQDHt1HAZ~}
Graduate student in Applied Math / Ecology, Harvard University
(soon to be at Cornell)
Dave Hiebeler
> In Canada a flashing green means something entirely different: it is
> called an "advanced green" and it tells you that you have a green
> for all turns while the opposing traffic has a red.
How considerate of them. Here in Boston, if you aren't already
familiar with the intersection and know you have an advance green, you
have to try and guess whether the oncoming traffic still has a red
light, or whether the first cars just haven't noticed that their light
has turned green yet. (In either case, of course, the thing to do is
Seize the Opportunity).
The bad part is being at such an intersection in the left-turn lane,
getting the advanced green (and you're familiar with the intersection
so you know the oncoming traffic still has a red), but there's someone
in front of you who doesn't know it. Usually what happens in these
cases is that the person in front of you figures it out just in time
for them to get through the intersection as the oncoming traffic gets
their green, leaving you stuck there.
David Schulz
: In article <3vodru$d...@sundog.tiac.net>,
: che...@max.tiac.net (David Chesler) says:
: >(New Yorkers don't use the amber lights, they count how many times
the "Don't
: >Walk" has flashed.)
: I do this too, except I use it to measure the length of a green (or most of
: the time, how long I've got to try and make it under a light when the other
: drivers, who seem to think green lights last &^%&#* forever, are d*cking
: around :-( ). 12 blinks of the Don't Walk == 1 yellow light.
Kenny,
I think you do this b/c you are from Chicago (like myself) where the traffic
lights are dependable! I can count the flashing don't walks and more than ten
means your chances of getting through are decreasing. Also, have to comment
on the d*cking around. Driving from Medfield back to Boston everyday after
work, I get near green lights, and the f*&kers in front of me invariably
BRAKE! What the hell is that? It has to be a suburban thing, b/c in Boston I
feel guilty going through a red.... until I see theree cars behind me doing
the same thing! Boston drivers, as a whole, suck major cahones!
A friend compared the difference between driving in Boston and NYC: In NYC,
they know the traffic laws, they just ignore them. In Boston, no one has an
f'in clue that traffic laws exist and they just don't care.
I have PLENTY of evidence for this. I have never seen people blow
through obviously red lights in such quantity as I have here. Truly amazing.
Turn signals? I guess they don't exist in cars sold in MA. I have been
honked repeatedly for OBEYING "No turn on red" signs. Yesterday, light turned
green and literally two seconds later, someone honked because I didn't "jump
the gun." I don't mind driving in Boston though, because everyone drives like
I do... offensively. I just happen to pay attention to those annoying traffic
laws (except speed limits, of course), and signal as an act of courtesy (and
law) and flash my brights when annoying suburban cops set up speed traps
because they have nothing better to do, and they want to feel powerful. BTW,
I am NOT ranking on city cops, they deserve every penny and respect, too.
Enough venting for today..... drive safely!
Dave Schulz
Kenneth Crudup
... a whole lot of stuff I agree with.
Barry Shein
From: dsc...@bu.edu (David Schulz)
>A friend compared the difference between driving in Boston and NYC: In NYC,
>they know the traffic laws, they just ignore them. In Boston, no one has an
>f'in clue that traffic laws exist and they just don't care.
I usually describe it as: In NYC you know what they're after, they're
just ruthless. In Boston they just seem psychotic and without purpose.
Only in Boston will a person nearly kill you so they can change lanes
so they can just keep driving straight down the road. I dunno, they
got tired of driving in that lane, that appears to be considered an
emergency here. At least in NYC you'd know your lane was moving faster
or they were about to make a turn or something, not that you're just
surrounded by the mental equivalent of axe-murderers with driver's
licenses.
But in other circumstances I'd agree with the above, they often don't
have a clue and really don't have a clue about what the rules of the
road might be. Even when it works to their own disadvantage which
convinces me they're often just confused.
Today I'm backed up at a light. There's a cross street near the
intersection so usually of course people just block the intersection,
ok it happens. But not today, the guy who might've blocked it stops,
courteously. So a car comes, and stops as if it is blocked. So the
guy beeps him and waves him to go on thru (the light's red so we're
not going anywhere, fine, civil.) For some reason the guy doesn't go
thru, just sits there. Then the light turns green, so traffic begins
to move, so the guy who was waving him on a minute ago starts to now
roll in front of him, towards the light, and THEN this guy suddenly
shoots out causing the guy who was waving him thru (and the rest of us
behind him) to slam on his brakes. Why do they do things like that? I
dunno, but it happens all the time.
And how come if you're the only car coming down a street, no one
behind you, will someone making a left turn suddenly shoot out in
front of you here? Don't they see there's no one behind you, one more
second and they can have the whole road to themselves? It'll happen to
me at 4AM on an otherwise dead quiet street, suddenly the only other
car on the road will nastily shoot a left in front of me and cut me
off, sometimes I swear they were waiting for a car to come by to cut
off.
Weird. I've only seen this sort of stuff in Boston, particularly so
frequently.
--
-Barry Shein
Software Tool & Die | b...@world.std.com | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLD
Robert Winters
Joel B Levin <le...@bbn.com> wrote:
>Never trust anything in Massachusetts. I know of one intersection
>which used a green arrow to indicate an UNprotected right turn - this
>was in the days before right-turn-on-red was allowed in the state. I
>almost discovered the nature of this green arrow the hard way. (I
>think it was for turning onto Main from Moody or a nearby street in
>downtown Waltham.)
As I began reading this post, my memory flashed to a place where I almost
got creamed by this. Sure enough, it was Moody St. turning onto Main St. in
Waltham! This brilliant piece of traffic engineering must be one of a
kind. The light clearly indicated a green arrow for a right turn. I
proceeded and was met with screeching brakes, honking of horns, and the
traditional birds. It would be one thing if I thought I had erred. The
experience only made me angry. Surely this light must have been replaced by
now.
I used to really like the intersection where westbound traffic on Storrow
Drive (for me, coming back from the airport) meets the Longfellow Bridge
heading toward Cambridge. There was a Yield Sign AND a flashing red light,
a clear contradiction. I believe the Yield Sign has now been replaced by a
Stop Sign or has been removed altogether leaving the flashing red. It
really makes you wonder about the people who put up these signs.
Robert Winters
Aaron Rever
>
>In article <3vr8e2$j...@news.bu.edu>, David Schulz <dsc...@bu.edu>
wrote:
>[ Kenny wrote ]
>>: blinks of the Don't Walk == 1 yellow light.
>
> In Manhattan, it's 8.
> NYC traditionally has shorter yellows than elsewhere.
>
> Of course, around here, the yellows are of variable length. Just like
>the protected greens, you've got to know which yellows you can go
through
>(and will feel stupid if you don't) on the first few seconds.
>
>>A friend compared the difference between driving in Boston and NYC: In
NYC
>,
>>they know the traffic laws, they just ignore them. In Boston, no one
has a
>n
>>f'in clue that traffic laws exist and they just don't care.
>
> In Boston, the laws be damned, they know what the rules are, and they
>follow them, so as best to maximize throughput.
> My favorite example is the 93/128 interchange in Woburn. Even at
>near rush hour, you've got a constant stream of cars entering, and
>another constant stream that has to merge through the "acceleration"
>lane to exit, and they all do a beautiful alternate feed. Nobody
>(hardly) jockeys or plays chicken.
> In New York, they'll cut you off just to be mean.
Beautiful, David? Every time I'm on 93, at the 128/95 interchange, the
only thing I ever think of is "Who the hell DESIGNED this interchange,
someone on LSD??" Having a cloverleaf interchange for two major
highways is utterly stupid! Yes, maybe people actually DO let people
enter and exit 93 and 128, but the only reason this has to be done in
the first place is because the interchange is desigend like crap!
Agree, disagree?
>
>>I have been honked repeatedly for OBEYING "No turn on red" signs.
>
> Ack. One of the last times it happened to me I decided to go
>psycho on the guy in the 20 year old Volvo behind me, and ran out
>and shouted "YOU SEE THAT SIGN OVER THERE THAT SAYS "NO TURN ON RED"!?
>THAT'S WHY I'M NOT GOING. WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM? IF YOU WANT TO GO
>THAT BADLY, JUST GO THE HELL AROUND ME!" He sweated for a bit, thought,
>and said "Well, now the light is green." And I said "Well now, when I
>get back in my car, I'll go through."
>
Hahahaha! That's happened to me in Manchester a number of times...
People are SOOOO stupid sometimes! I think I'll try that one next
time...
>> Yesterday, light turned
>>green and literally two seconds later, someone honked because I didn't
"jum
>p
>>the gun."
>
> I'd heard that Chicagoans jump the green, which is incompatible with
>the Bostonian practice of continuing through the red. In any case,
>2 seconds is a long time. (If you were driving, you could have
>covered 178 feet in that time.) The honk might have been "Pardon me
>sir, but in case you weren't aware, the light has now turned. Perhaps
>you'd want to proceed." This is a shorter toot than the one that
>means "MOVE IT OR LOOSE IT, BUDDY."
Let's face it, all cities have their own traffic quirks...
Unfortunately, Boston's are worse than most... <grin>
Aaron
Kenneth Crudup
rne...@cybercom.net (Ron Newman) says:
>I don't think I *ever* saw the combination of red light with green arrow
>pointing upward (i.e. straight ahead) until I came here.
48 hours after arriving in this area I almost caused a *huge* rear-end domino
accident 'cause I saw one of those and locked 'em up, thinking it was a red
light.
-Kenny, who had heard about Boston cops before he got here
Dave Hiebeler
In article <3vtti0$g...@sundog.tiac.net> che...@max.tiac.net (David Chesler) writes:
> >... I saw a woman push the button and turn the lights to red &
> >yellow so she could cross the street. (And then I promptly took the
> >opportunity to zip across the street on my bike of course!)
>
> By "across" do you mean you were bike-as-pedestrian, or were you
> bike-as-vehicle-to-whom-the-law-does-not-apply?
Ok, I admit, I do the switch-between-vehicle-and-pedestrian thing
when I'm on my bike. But I do also drive a car, and keep both
gperspectives in mind when using either vehicle. E.g. I would never
do something like what Boursy mentioned about the bikes blowing
through the intersection on the right and almost getting nailed by a
car turning right. The thing to do there would be to slow down to
match the speed of the cars, at least 4 car-lengths back from the
light, so you're next to a driver who you know has seen you well
before you reach the intersection.
But if the lane is wide, I will come up to the red light, and go
through when there are no cars or pedestrians in the way (even if the
light is still red), after I'm pretty sure that all the important
stopped cars have already seen me too, and that the guy next to me
isn't waiting to turn right. I occasionally go up on the sidewalk for
a bit (usually for no more than half a block) if there aren't any
people walking there and if the street seems particularly unsafe for a
bit. So yeah, I do all the stuff that ticks off people, but I try to
do it as nicely as possible!
I generally just do what seems safest, within reason, rather than
trying to get where I'm going as quickly as possible. On many
occasions I stop or slow down for cars or pedestrians even where I
think I have the right of way. But if I can shave off some time
without extra danger, I'll do it.
Also, I do admit I was a less bike-aware auto driver before I
started trying to ride a bike around. Not that I was mean to
cyclists, but I wasn't as good at predicting what they might try to
do. :-)
I'm from a small town which only had one traffic light though, so
I'm not so crazy about driving or biking around here. And now I'm
teaching my girlfriend to drive, which is a *really* thrilling way to
go around town!
Ron Newman
Levin) wrote:
> Never trust anything in Massachusetts. I know of one intersection
> which used a green arrow to indicate an UNprotected right turn
In Kenmore Square, there used to be a traffic signal facing
Deerfield Street (the little side street with the post office).
It would display a green arrow for a right turn onto Comm. Ave.
at the same time as the main signal was green for Comm. Ave!
They *finally* removed this light in the most recent redesign of
the Kenmore Square signals; now I think there's just a stop sign here.
--
Ron Newman rne...@cybercom.net
Web: http://www.cybercom.net/~rnewman/home.html
David Chesler
Dave Hiebeler <hieb...@husc.harvard.edu> wrote:
>> By "across" do you mean you were bike-as-pedestrian, or were you
>> bike-as-vehicle-to-whom-the-law-does-not-apply?
>
> Ok, I admit, I do the switch-between-vehicle-and-pedestrian thing
>when I'm on my bike. But I do also drive a car, and keep both
>gperspectives in mind when using either vehicle. E.g. I would never
>do something like what Boursy mentioned about the bikes blowing
>through the intersection on the right and almost getting nailed by a
>car turning right.
> But if the lane is wide, I will come up to the red light, and go
>through when there are no cars or pedestrians in the way (even if the
>light is still red), after I'm pretty sure that all the important
>stopped cars have already seen me too, and that the guy next to me
>isn't waiting to turn right. I occasionally go up on the sidewalk for
>a bit (usually for no more than half a block) if there aren't any
>people walking there and if the street seems particularly unsafe for a
>bit. So yeah, I do all the stuff that ticks off people, but I try to
>do it as nicely as possible!
As someone who is sometimes a motorist and sometimes a bicyclist
(and other times a motorcyclist) that kind of behavior doesn't
tick me off.
I'm much more concerned with my fellow users of the road being
in harmony with the traffic flow, and generally being good
road citizens (as I've written before, this means not taking
more of the common resource of pavement for longer than
necessary or more than necessary) than with all the minute
details of the law.
A bicyclist who treats a "stop" as a "yield" won't annoy most
motorists. It's the blatant disregard for all the other traffic
(I like Barry's theory as to why some motorists do this) that
is annoying.
Annoying Behavior: Up the pedestrian ramp, onto the sidewalk,
past the grandmothers, then down the driveway, across the
roadway, up the other side, etc. (All in rapid succession, for
nor particular reason, without regard to others.)
Non-annoying behavior: Up a driveway to go around a taxi
parked in the middle of the street.
- Slowly down a one-way which is there only to make the
street not a through street for the NIMBYs.
Annoying behavior: Blowing through a red light without
stopping, and being difficult to repass thereafter.
Non-annoying behavior: Slowing down at the red light, until
it is clear and safe to proceed, and staying within the far
right of the rightmost travel lane for the next block.
David Chesler
Robert Winters <rwin...@abel.harvard.edu> wrote:
> There was a Yield Sign AND a flashing red light,
>a clear contradiction. I believe the Yield Sign has now been replaced by a
>Stop Sign or has been removed altogether leaving the flashing red. It
>really makes you wonder about the people who put up these signs.
I can't remember where, but I've seen in a few places a stop sign at
a light-controlled intersection. Usually it's with a flashing red,
but I think I've seen it where the light can turn green. I don't know
which controls there.
And nobody has mentioned stop lines in the thread yet.
Roland Bassett
At the intersection of Columbus Ave. and Washington St. in J.P.
(Roxbury?), when driving outbound on Columbus, you get an arrow
to turn right onto Washington at the same time that motorists on
Washington have a green light. As far as I know, this is still
the case. A friend was driving once, we didn't know this, and we
nearly got killed going through the intersection.
RLB
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Roland Bassett SDAC, Harvard School of Public Health
rol...@sdac.harvard.edu Phone: +1 617 432 0040 FAX: +1 617 432 2832
Kenneth Crudup
rol...@pliny.harvard.edu (Roland Bassett) says:
>At the intersection of Columbus Ave. and Washington St. [at the J.P. /
>Roxbury border], when driving outbound on Columbus, you get an arrow
>to turn right onto Washington at the same time that motorists on
>Washington have a green light. As far as I know, this is still the case.
Yeah, I drive thru this intersection every day.
>A friend was driving once, we didn't know this, and we nearly got killed
>going through the intersection.
To make matters worse, traffic on Washington (with the green light) is
canted about -20 (as opposed to 0) degrees below the perpendicular, so
you have to look *really* far behind you. I end up blowing at some fool
on Columbus about 3 times a week.
I also hate trying to come thru that left turn there in the mornings.
-Kenny
Jon Sreekanth
In article <LEVIN.95A...@qwilleran.bbn.com>, le...@bbn.com (Joel B
Levin) wrote:
> Never trust anything in Massachusetts. I know of one intersection
> which used a green arrow to indicate an UNprotected right turn
Also along a street that connects Somerville Avenue to Beacon Ave.
Going away from the West Coast video, past the envelope factory and
the train tracks, at the intersection, there are two green arrows, one
pointing right, one pointing left. The logic is the street facing you is a
NO-ENTRY, so obviously one can't put a solid green there, right :-) So,
you think you have the right of way to turn left, but the guy coming at you
had a solid green, and he's going straight, and damn if he'll give way ...
--
/ Jon Sreekanth, Ascom Nexion, (508) 266-3447, jon_...@nexen.com
Ron Newman
wrote:
> > Never trust anything in Massachusetts. I know of one intersection
> > which used a green arrow to indicate an UNprotected right turn
>
> Also along a street that connects Somerville Avenue to Beacon Ave.
Beacon STREET, please. The light in question is at the
corner of Beacon Street and Park Street in Somerville. (Once it
goes into Cambridge, Park Street becomes Scott Street.)
David Chesler
Jon Sreekanth <jon_sree@fatboy> wrote:
>Also along a street that connects Somerville Avenue to Beacon Ave.
>the train tracks, at the intersection, there are two green arrows, one
>pointing right, one pointing left. The logic is the street facing you is a
>NO-ENTRY, so obviously one can't put a solid green there, right :-) So,
>you think you have the right of way to turn left, but the guy coming at you
>had a solid green, and he's going straight, and damn if he'll give way ...
That's the one I was thinking of. That's Park St Somerville, and it
may be Holden St that's one-way, coming out of the Holden Green residential
section of Harvard University.
I mentioned that street in correspondence as a one-way that's clearly
just to prevent through traffic (not too bad an idea there, as Beacon
and Kirkland are the major streets, and motorists would be tempted to
cut off the corner behind Dali) where I would entirely forgive a
bicyclist for cautiously going down those 25 yards. Heck, you
can even see the double-yellow from Park Street.
David Grabiner
> In article <3vr8e2$j...@news.bu.edu>, David Schulz <dsc...@bu.edu> wrote:
> [ Kenny wrote ]
>> : blinks of the Don't Walk == 1 yellow light.
> In Manhattan, it's 8.
> NYC traditionally has shorter yellows than elsewhere.
> Of course, around here, the yellows are of variable length. Just like
> the protected greens, you've got to know which yellows you can go through
> (and will feel stupid if you don't) on the first few seconds.
And which ones are inadequate. Commonwealth Avenue in Allston/Brighton
is so wide (six lanes, three medians, trolley tracks, and parking spaces
on each side) that it's common for cars on cross streets to enter on
green and spend the entire yellow inside the intersection. This makes
crossing dangerous on foot, particularly at busy intersections such as
Harvard Street.
--
David Grabiner, grab...@math.harvard.edu
I don't speak for Harvard, or any other organization that speaks for itself.
Shop at the Mobius Strip Mall: Always on the same side of the street!
Klein Glassworks, Torus Coffee and Donuts, Projective Airlines, etc.
Bob Leigh
From the Massachusetts Drivers' License Manual, under
"Rules of the Road / More Questions and Answers":
53. Q. What does a flashing green light on a traffic signal or beacon mean?
A. Intersection or crosswalk in use or subject to use--proceed with
caution prepared to stop for a change of lights.
--
Bob Leigh bobl...@world.std.com
Customer Support, Software Tool & Die
Like Atlas, we support The World.
wil...@kbrhorse.net
> While visiting in the Boston suburbs recently I came across some traffic
> intersections that had flashing green lights for one of the streets.
> Whatever do these mean? Not having seen them anywhere else in the US
> and not seeing any signs about them at the intersections I found them
> rather unnerving, but drove through them anyway. Are these a Boston
> oddity or a Mass.-wide phenomenon?
>
>
> -Satish
Usually pedestrian activated and the cross traffic only has a stop sign. Safe to proceed but traffic could pull out from the cross street, presumably when it is safe to do so.
-Willis