digha agama 28 (04)

[TC Nguyen]

da04

II. Is the non mentating the end goal of buddhism
taught by Gautama.

From the Pali canon :
'And does the Exalted One teach that there is one summit of
consciousness, or
that there are several ?'
-- ' In my opinion, Potthapāda, there is one, and there are also
several.'
-- ' But how can the Exalted teach that there both is one, and that
there are also
several ?'
-- ' As he attains to the cessation (of one idea, one state of
consciousness) after
another, so does he reach, one after another, to different summits up to
the last.
So is it, Potthapāda, that I put forward both one summit and several.'
( Rhys Davids )

19. 'Lord, do you teach that the summit of perception is just one, or
that it is
many?'
'I teach it as both one and many.'
'Lord, how is it one, and how is it many?'
'According as he attains successively to the cessation of each
perception, so I
teach the summit of that perception: thus I teach both one summit of
perception,
and I also teach many.'
( Maurice Walshe )

From Chinese Agama :
The Brahmin said :
- Among those thoughts, which one is supreme ?
The Buddha said :
- Thought of the sphere of non doing is supreme.
- Among those thoughts, which one is the number one supreme ?
- Among those thoughts, the non thought attained from the
gradual
eradication of thought is the supreme number one.
The Brahmin asked :
- Is there a single thought or are there many thoughts ?
- It's a single thought, not many.

We see here the big difference between the Pali and the Agama. In the
Pali, we
don't see the inconsistency of the argument. In the Chinese Agama, we
wonder
why if the thought of the sphere of non doing is supreme ( not any above
), and
then there still be the super number one ?
In the Pali, at its stage there is a peak, or summit, we understand.
Like we have
many mountains, each has its own summit, and the summit is relative to
its stage.
It is not the result of comparison between summits of thougths. Since
the Chinese
Agama, the question is : between those ( summits of ) thoughts, which
one is
supreme ? The comparison is between those summits. There will be only
one
outcone, if there are more, then they must be equal.

We must see that here the Agama is corrupted.

Now see the question :
We are pondering, and ( I ) think that the venerable Gautama know
the
solution, that he knows thoughts and the samadhi of extinction ".

From the starting point, till here, we hear the discussion about the
suppression of
thoughts. Not the discussion on the emancipation. And we know that knife
is
supreme for cutting, it's not supreme for climbing. The purpose here is
the
suppression of thoughts, then no mentating, no thinking is the best to
cut off
thoughts. As for will it lead to emancipation, it is like an ostrich
bearing its head
under the sand when seeing mara, IMO.

Gautama did not say that the non mentating is the supreme on the way to
emancipating, it's obvious in this sutta and in another suttas. This non
mentating
is supreme in the sense of suppression of thoughts, it is not supreme in
leading us
to the emancipation.

And it's interesting to notice that, can we suppress all thoughts ?
I don't answer this question by personal experience, but by this Agama
sutta. No.
Here is the proof : the non mentating is also a thought ( this thought
comparing
with another summits of thoughts ), and the sphere is called : tu+o+?ng
: thought;
tri die^.t : know the extinction; ddi.nh : samadhi.

Conclusion : the Agama sutra is corrupted at this point, and the non
mentating is
not suppreme in the emancipation, the goal of Buddhism, but in cutting
off
thoughts. Cutting off thoughts is still thought.

If quote out of context, people will think that Gautama said that the
non mentting
is the goal of Buddhism.

[J.Klee]

Want to thank you, for your efforts by mailing these suttas. I'm will try to
understand it. Caute. C.C.
TC Nguyen <dw...@freenet.carleton.ca> schreef in berichtnieuws
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