Require Male Perspective ....
Candace Lain Faucher
Would appreciate any and all (civil) input regarding a statue which is
located in downtown Ottawa - it is dedicated to all of the women who have
died due to violence.
My contention of this statue is this: it specifically (as engraved on the
statue) singles out "men" as the culprit.
My standing is that this contradicts our criminal code "hate laws" already
in place - and I do not understand how this statue has been permitted to
do so.
Thanks.
CLF
--
" Your reason and your passion are the rudder and the sails of your
seafaring soul. For reason, ruling alone, is a force confining;
and passion, unattended, is a flame that burns to its own destruction."
John Mertl
Candace Lain Faucher wrote:
>
> Would appreciate any and all (civil) input regarding a statue which is
> located in downtown Ottawa - it is dedicated to all of the women who have
> died due to violence.
>
> My contention of this statue is this: it specifically (as engraved on the
> statue) singles out "men" as the culprit.
>
> My standing is that this contradicts our criminal code "hate laws" already
> in place - and I do not understand how this statue has been permitted to
> do so.
>
Yes, the statue (memorial, actually) is in the park between Elgin and
Cartier, Gilmore and Lewis.
I find it rather disturbing. Not because men are singled out as the
cause of these women's deaths; rather, because of the number of women
memorialized. And no doubt there are many women of Ottawa that have died
at the hands of men who aren't included on the memorial.
While violence against anyone, male or female, is an abhorrent act, I
think the memorial was intended to bring to the public's attention a
particular societal problem otherwise known as domestic violence. (There
are cases where domesticity was not at issue, like the murder of a
prostitute behind the old school on Murray Street. Maybe we should call
them "gender-related acts of violence" to be more generally correct.
These don't include, of course, incidents where a male thief murders the
female attendant at a 7-11. Presumably, the thief would have murdered
the attendant regardless of the gender. A woman might even have a better
chance of survival in this case, usually being less of a threat to the
thief.)
Back to the point, I think that the women's movements have done a
wonderful job bringing "gender-related violence" into the public forum.
There are many women who suffer unspeakably at the hands of men. If the
memorial brings further attention to how much of a problem this is, then
it is well worth the risk of offending the sensibilities of a few men
(and perhaps a few women). Men who understand the seriousness of the
issue, and who profoundly respect women as human beings equal in all
social (precise qualifier) respects, have nothing to be ashamed of.
Domestic violence is a problem that we all share. It is indicative of
dysfunctional social values that we have not yet corrected. We all have
a responsibility to do our part in making memorial like the one in the
park off Elgin a faint reminder of times long past. Women's movements
have done a great deal, and need to do more. Men, I think, could be far
more outspoken on the issue. Collectively, we need to do whatever we can
to rid ourselves of this hideous cancer.
The memorial moves me. The memorial is good for all of us.
John Mertl
jme...@microstar.com
Gord Thorburn
Candace Lain Faucher (dl...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:
> Would appreciate any and all (civil) input regarding a statue which is
> located in downtown Ottawa - it is dedicated to all of the women who have
> died due to violence.
>
> My contention of this statue is this: it specifically (as engraved on the
> statue) singles out "men" as the culprit.
>
> My standing is that this contradicts our criminal code "hate laws" already
> in place - and I do not understand how this statue has been permitted to
> do so.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> CLF
Admittedly, the plaque you speak of technically falls under "hate crimes"
when it blames ALL men... But that happens everyday. For instance, there
was a colledge...or University (Not sure which) in some state in the U.S.
where someone got hold of the names of EVERY male on campus. They then
posted the names on a huge sheet of paper where everyone could see it. At
the top it read something like "All these men are potential perpetrators
of sexual assault" or something like that... I hesitate to use the "R"
word, seeing as SEVEN women in my life had had something terrible happen
to them in their pasts... Also, I should meantion the fact that everytime
I hear of some horrible attrocity that a man does against a woman, I have
a tendancy of "Tuning into the universal Male guilt network"... I've never
done anything questionable, but it still makes me feel like slime whenever
some extra Y Chromosone idiot does... Odd eh?
Oh well... that's my non refundable 2 cents... sorry for the rant...
-Gord...
--
"Dreams may die...But our Nightmares will always come back to haunt us..."
"I am the head lights of the on coming car... I am the feeling you get when
you missplace your bus pass... I AM the Warrior of Panic..." -Hino Megumi,
Shattered Moon
Candace Lain Faucher
Matthew Darwin (aa...@freenet.carleton.ca) writes:
> [This article has been posted to the NCF news server by
> an Internet -> NCF gateway. The original author was:
> John Mertl <jme...@microstar.com>].
>
> Candace Lain Faucher wrote:
>>
>> Would appreciate any and all (civil) input regarding a statue which is
>> located in downtown Ottawa - it is dedicated to all of the women who have
>> died due to violence.
>>
>> My contention of this statue is this: it specifically (as engraved on the
>> statue) singles out "men" as the culprit.
>>
>> My standing is that this contradicts our criminal code "hate laws" already
>> in place - and I do not understand how this statue has been permitted to
>> do so.
>>
>
Correction. Please do not include myself in the above statement. The
memorial is not justified unless you change our criminal code hate laws.
You see - I would be more than willing to allow a memorial if it did
indeed state the way things were written by yourself - i.e.
"Collectively, we need to rid ourselves of this hideous cancer."
But the memorial does not do this. It contradicts exactly what it is
claiming to have as a goal.
CLF
John Mertl >
jme...@microstar.com
Darren Spratt
Candace Lain Faucher (dl...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:
> Would appreciate any and all (civil) input regarding a statue which is
> located in downtown Ottawa - it is dedicated to all of the women who have
> died due to violence.
> My contention of this statue is this: it specifically (as engraved on the
> statue) singles out "men" as the culprit.
> My standing is that this contradicts our criminal code "hate laws" already
> in place - and I do not understand how this statue has been permitted to
> do so.
This has been discussed here at length in the past, with others saying in
essance what you have just said. Net result: zero. There still stands
a statue in down town Ottawa singling out men for violent acts committed
against women. Women kill men at just about the same rate as men kill women
and yet, there is no statue condemning female violence and claiming men
as its victims.
This is what today's equality movement has acheived.
Darren
--
Candace Lain Faucher
I would disagree with the above statement - I would suggest that it has
been extremists which apparently have had enough clout to ignore/by-pass laws
already in place - or quite possibly; connections that the average "Joe
Blow" doesn't have....
CLF
> Darren > -- >
Lee Murray
Candace Lain Faucher (dl...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:
>
> My contention of this statue is this: it specifically (as engraved on the
> statue) singles out "men" as the culprit.
I would say you are right. This tendency to generalize from the specific
is unfortunately encouraged in our society by media, politicians,
and everyone who stands to gain from simplistic stereotyping.
As one example, cigarettes are labelled the "cause" of cancer,
even though only a minority of users get cancer...
A friend relates that, once she was sitting around the kitchen
table having beers with some girlfriends, and the topic turned
to "men are bastards." A pretty good heat was worked up and my
freind rose and went over and slapped her boyfriend, who was
watching tv on the couch... nothing personal!
Lee :)
>
> My standing is that this contradicts our criminal code "hate laws" already
> in place - and I do not understand how this statue has been permitted to
> do so.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> CLF
>
>
>
> --
> " Your reason and your passion are the rudder and the sails of your
> seafaring soul. For reason, ruling alone, is a force confining;
> and passion, unattended, is a flame that burns to its own destruction."
--
joy
Andre Lieven
Candace Lain Faucher (dl...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:
> Darren Spratt (an...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:
>> Candace Lain Faucher (dl...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:
>
>> This has been discussed here at length in the past, with others saying in
>> essance what you have just said. Net result: zero. There still stands
>> a statue in down town Ottawa singling out men for violent acts committed
>> against women. Women kill men at just about the same rate as men kill women
>> and yet, there is no statue condemning female violence and claiming men
>> as its victims.
>>
>> This is what today's equality movement has acheived.
>
> I would disagree with the above statement - I would suggest that it has
> been extremists which apparently have had enough clout to ignore/by-pass laws
> already in place - or quite possibly; connections that the average "Joe
> Blow" doesn't have....
How did the extremists gain control of all the major women's groups, if they
are only " extremists ". yhat term usually defines a group which is a
minority of it's whole. Yet, these extremists seem to speak for the womens
movement, whenever there is anything going on. Where are the " silent
majority " of moderate women, who, as you seem to, find this to be not what
they had in mind, when they got involved with feminism.
I tend to label myself as a Humanist. I am for the elevation of all who
make up the species, gender, etc. not being important to the issue of who,
in our society is of worth.
As Camille Paglia has pointed out, among others, modern feminism, has lost
it's century old focus of improving the lot of women, while not harming
anyone else. It seems to my eye, that the 90's brand of feminism wishes to
blame any and every one else for it's percieved problems. Thus, the cult
of " victimology ". The result of this philosophy ? Statues that blame one
gender, EXCLUSIVELY, for the woes of the other.
So, where are the women who will take back the movement, to what they want
it to be ? To paraphrase an old saying, " All that is needed for evil to
flourish, is for good WOMEN to do nothing. "
--
" The noblest achievement of the imagination is to make time run some
other way, and terminate in beauty and forgivness "
David Gelernter, " 1939 "
David A. Shackleton
Candace,
Thank you for your willingness to raise this issue. You clearly identify
yourself as someone who cares for gender equality that cuts both ways
- not just that favours women. I have great respect for individuals
who display such integrity.
I agree with you that the statue clearly violates our constitution
and hate laws. However, I wonder if a petition will achieve
anything. Perhaps a claim to the Ontario Human Rights Commission
might be more successful, and more media-worthy?
I would be willing to help pursue a course of action that seemed to
have a chance of success.
David Shackleton
Candace Lain Faucher (dl...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA)
writes:
> Would appreciate any and all (civil) input regarding a statue which is
> located in downtown Ottawa - it is dedicated to all of the women who have
> died due to violence.
>
> My contention of this statue is this: it specifically (as engraved on the
> statue) singles out "men" as the culprit.
>
> My standing is that this contradicts our criminal code "hate laws" already
> in place - and I do not understand how this statue has been permitted to
> do so.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> CLF
>
>
>
> --
> " Your reason and your passion are the rudder and the sails of your
> seafaring soul. For reason, ruling alone, is a force confining;
> and passion, unattended, is a flame that burns to its own destruction."
--
David Shackleton, Editor and Publisher, EVERYMAN: A Men's Journal
Email, telephone or write for a free copy:
(613) 832-2284, PO Box 4617, Stn E, Ottawa, ON K1S 5H8, CANADA
"The world changes when we do"
Candace Lain Faucher
David A. Shackleton (cv...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:
> Candace,
>
> Thank you for your willingness to raise this issue. You clearly identify
> yourself as someone who cares for gender equality that cuts both ways
> - not just that favours women. I have great respect for individuals
> who display such integrity.
Please keep in mind that it was a gentleman - James Cohen - who told me about
this statue, and, if I understood him correctly, fought to have it changed -
completely on his own - without success.
It is for men such as this - that stand strong and tall - who demonstrate the
need for fairness - refusing to sit quiet when laws are violated - I admire.
We live in a time when men are in a totally new frontier. I will never
abolish my faith or hope that men can conquer this new frontier as well.
When I use the term: conquer - I am referring to adaptation in order to
acquire the sense of security which once existed.
Ignoring hate laws is not the correct route to take - nor is creating
dissention between the sexes.
> I agree with you that the statue clearly violates our constitution
> and hate laws. However, I wonder if a petition will achieve
> anything. Perhaps a claim to the Ontario Human Rights Commission
> might be more successful, and more media-worthy?
It is worthy of our time and effort. If those responsible for this statue
were successful - we certainly have a chance. Collectively. Hoping to
hear from Aub's lawyer soon. *
> I would be willing to help pursue a course of action that seemed to
> have a chance of success.
Believe that Aub's idea to seek counsel from his lawyer is step one. If thislawyer agrees that the criminal code hate laws are being ignored ... we
definitely have a solid foundation to work with.
> David Shackleton
Thank you for contributing.
CLF
--
"Your standard of giving is more important than you standard of living."