my view on the statue
John G Davies
I used to have a very good friend who was a feminist, she was
very aware of all the injustices men had comitted against women
as all feminists are and she never ceased to remind me of it.
I also have strong feelings against rapists and batterers so she
at least treated me nicely, but eventually her views began to
become more and more extreme until one day she told me "I can't
trust any man to not rape me because some women can't even trust
their own fathers"
This was the point where I stopped spending much time with her.
I felt very frustrated that even though I had always been kind
and respectful towards women, for one who knew me very well to
still see me as a potential rapist was extremely insulting.
I didn't see her very much for awhile but one day mutual
friends brought us to a coffee shop on Elgin where I was, as
one of the 2 white males there subjected to put down after put
down and joke after joke. I generally have a good sense of humor
about such things and I considered this to be a fun "rivalry of
the sexes" conversation, so I retorted with a joke or two of my
own.
The other white male there then proceeded to lecture me on the
fact that "women can tell jokes about men but men cannot tell
jokes about women and you should be ashamed...etc., etc."
Well, this was my incentive to just leave and go for a walk in
the park to forget it all... And this is when I saw the statue
for the first time.
I have never contributed personally to violence against women
I have never even raised my voice to my current girlfriend of
3 years (neither has she). And yet sometimes I feel that there
are people out there who hate me just for what I am. This was
just one of many reminders that I have that I am generally seen
as an oppressor. I have a feminist sister who has treated me as
an oppressor (though to her credit, she doesn't anymore). I've
had female friends who've treated me as an oppressor. I've
worked in a feminist dominated workplace where I was constantly
treated as a lower form of life because of my sex and colour.
But I am the last person who would hit a woman and the first
who would defend them when they plea for equality.
Seeing the statue when I did just added to my frustration and
pushed me further away from sympathy for the cause of feminism.
Thankfully, I have the common sense to not allow one such
isolated incident to affect my stance on such matters, but I
do not believe that all people do. Many men resent the feelings
of guilt that some feminists have placed on them, not to
mention the feelings of sexual inadequecy. And that causes them
to feel the need to strike back. Perhaps (and note that I only
say perhaps) that contributed somewhat to what happened in
Montreal.
Now I would be the last person to complain about offensive
statements, lord knows I've been guilty of such things a
million times. But I would put it to you that perhaps treating
men as the enemy is counter-productive to your cause. And as I
do fully support the cause of equality and peace among the
sexes I would recommend that those of you who isolate men in
the belief that it empowers women reconsider your stance and
even re-examine your motives on such matters.
Kevin McCann
John G Davies (bo...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:
> Now I would be the last person to complain about offensive
> statements, lord knows I've been guilty of such things a
> million times. But I would put it to you that perhaps treating
> men as the enemy is counter-productive to your cause. And as I
> do fully support the cause of equality and peace among the
> sexes I would recommend that those of you who isolate men in
> the belief that it empowers women reconsider your stance and
> even re-examine your motives on such matters.
Very, very, well said, John. Thank you for taking the time to say what
many others, I'm sure, want to say, but feel either oppressed or politically
disenfranchised to do so.
Betty Friedan was right. Classifying all men as brutes will only lead to
backlash. And rightly so.
--
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John G Davies
Classifying all men as brutes will lead to backlash: yes I do
agree, but rightly so?
I can never agree with this sentiment. If we as men justify
backlash based on the the treatment we recieve from those who
hate men then we are behaving in the exact manner that we
critisize extreme feminists for behaving in.
Many women abuse men because they have recieved abuse from men
and many men abuse women because they have recieved abuse from
women and that is where the problem lies. If one group continues
to seek revenge for the wrongdoings of the other, than no
solution will ever be found. It will go back and forth and back
and forth and back and forth and back and forth and back and
forth and on and on and on and on without any potential for an
end to the problem.
Just like parents abusing their children the cycle continues
until someone has the strength to change things. My father was
abused by his parents but he never abused me once. And for that
I admire him greatly. He had the ability to break the cycle.
And that is the unfortunate responsibility that every victim
of brutality must endure, to resist the urge to seek vengeance
on the rest of the world because they recognize that if they
don't, then they risk becoming what they hate the most.
Candace Lain Faucher
John G Davies (bo...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:
> Now I would be the last person to complain about offensive
> statements, lord knows I've been guilty of such things a
> million times. But I would put it to you that perhaps treating
> men as the enemy is counter-productive to your cause. And as I
> do fully support the cause of equality and peace among the
> sexes I would recommend that those of you who isolate men in
> the belief that it empowers women reconsider your stance and
> even re-examine your motives on such matters.
I believe that you have shared an excellent example as to why this statue
does nothing except create more dissention/separation/hate.
I am personally annoyed and insulted that any single group of extremists
have had such clout which enabled them to somehow by-pass laws already in
place for such.
We had better start reexamining motives - and begin striving to not accept
any more of this kind of nonsense. And I do consider it nonsense in the
sense that this statue completely contradicts its supposed goal.
We are living in difficult times. But, I honestly believe that we are
capable of much more than what is being demonstrated.
Many men have been extremely patient and silent with regard to this statue.
Personally, I would like to see a petition on the matter - action taken to
either change the wording on the statue, or remove it altogether.
Or, if worse comes to worse - a statue right beside this one which makes a
statement about all of the harms done to men by women. (would really hate
to see it coming to that).
My contention is that this statue contradicts our criminal code hate laws.
CLF
--
" Your reason and your passion are the rudder and the sails of your
seafaring soul. For reason, ruling alone, is a force confining;
and passion, unattended, is a flame that burns to its own destruction."
Candace Lain Faucher
Candace Lain Faucher
Candace Lain Faucher (dl...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:
> John G Davies (bo...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA) writes:
>> Classifying all men as brutes will lead to backlash: yes I do
>> agree, but rightly so?
>> I can never agree with this sentiment. If we as men justify
>> backlash based on the the treatment we recieve from those who
>> hate men then we are behaving in the exact manner that we
>> critisize extreme feminists for behaving in.
I disagree. We have hate laws in place for a valid reason. These laws
should be upheld (or changed) for all - not some.
Demanding that this statue be removed or changed is not contributing to
any kind of "tit for tat." It would be in full recognition of laws which
were created to prevent any single group of people being singled out - as
hated.
>> Many women abuse men
because they have recieved abuse
from men >> and many men abuse women because they have recieved abuse from
>> women and that is where the problem lies. If one group continues
>> to seek revenge for the wrongdoings of the other, than no
>> solution will ever be found. It will go back and forth and back
>> and forth and back and forth and back and forth and back and
>> forth and on and on and on and on without any potential for an
>> end to the problem.
>> Just like parents abusing their children the cycle continues
>> until someone has the strength to change things. My father was
>> abused by his parents but he never abused me once. And for that
>> I admire him greatly. He had the ability to break the cycle.
And here lies the wisdom. Ending the cycle of abuse. You are wise to
admire your father for the enormours strength and courage he demonstrated
in ending the cycle.
And that is the unfortunate responsibility that
every
victim >> of brutality must endure, to resist the urge to seek vengeance
>> on the rest of the world because they recognize that if they
>> don't, then they risk becoming what they hate the most.
Exactly. And this statue completely contradicts the supposed goal.
(system cut me off - and the entire sentence I had written; reason for
having another posting.....)