AD dates in manuscripts

[David Calabro]

Dear friends on NASCAS,

Does anybody know of sources that discuss when the use of AD (سنة مسيحية) dates came into use in the various Christian Arabic traditions, as opposed to the other systems Anno Graecorum (سنة يونانية), Anno Martyrum (للشهداء الأطهار), and Anno Mundi (لكون العالم, لآدم)? Or do you have a sense of when AD dates came into use from your own experience with manuscripts?

My colleagues at HMML and I have come across some examples of manuscripts in which we are wondering about the plausibility of dates given in colophons and ownership notes, or whether there may be a mistake in the type of date or the numerals. In these instances, it would be helpful to know how likely it is that an AD date would have been used at a particular time.

Thank you in advance for your help!

All the best,

David

--

David M. Calabro, Ph.D.
Curator of Eastern Christian Manuscripts
Hill Museum & Manuscript Library
Saint John's University
Collegeville, MN 56321-7300, USA
(301) 325-0771 (cell)

[Dimitri Morozov]

Dear David,
I believe this is not AD as we understand it, but :

Samir Kh. L’ère de l’Incarnation dans les manuscrits arabes melkites
du 11e au 14e siècle // Orientalia Christiana Periodica. 53. 1987.
Fasc.1. P.193-201.

Sincerely,
Dmitry.


пн, 28 мар. 2022 г. в 16:58, David Calabro <dcala...@gmail.com>:

> --
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "North American Society for Christian Arabic Studies" group.
> To post to this group, send email to nas...@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> nascas+un...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/nascas?hl=en
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "North American Society for Christian Arabic Studies" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nascas+un...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nascas/CAHuoaro9xkuYFzVo_eGjJ-8ijAQhARXcVLP_n2w-GMGa7JrSKA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Dimitri Morozov]

Dear David,
Please find the file attached.
Sincerely,
Dmitry

пн, 28 мар. 2022 г. в 16:58, David Calabro <dcala...@gmail.com>:
>

[David Calabro]

Thank you, Dimitri and Sergey, for your helpful responses and these articles!

David

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nascas/CAAA7uq_bJPP8aME01Jrhr9Kd9Z9C-rfpWGSnuAzPBv0CW9f9Jw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Gregory Kessel]

Dear David,

this article of Hubert Kaufhold may also prove helpful:

KAUFHOLD, Hubert, “Zur Datierung nach christlicher Ära in den syrischen Kirchen”, in George KIRAZ (ed.), Malphono w-Rabo d-Malphone: Studies in Honor of Sebastian P. Brock (Gorgias Eastern Christian Studies, 3), Piscataway, NJ: Gorgias Press, 2008, 283–338.

Sincerely
grigory kessel

[David Calabro]

Hi Grigory,

Thank you! Sergey already mentioned this one. It's evidently true that great minds think alike. I have looked through the article, and it is indeed helpful.

All the best,

David

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nascas/B3AEB4B4-9B5A-45B2-8540-086E2A27D0EB%40yahoo.com.

[St. Shenouda the Archimandrite Coptic Society]

Dear David,

We have at least three manuscripts in our collection that either explicitly or by date comparison that show the conversion date to be 276 not 284 for the year of the martyr dates! One of them was scribed by the famous Ibrahim Abu Tabl al-Khankawi for the Ghaly family in 1812.

Sincerely,

Hany


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nascas/CAHuoarq7gMi76XUwOFs0xgm5G_mK9%3DOZQnTECRxkcnYsQf1mhg%40mail.gmail.com.

[David Calabro]

Dear Hany,

That is very interesting! Thank you.

All the best,

David

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nascas/1733465958.1107145.1648489557089%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Salam Rassi]

Dear David,

I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned this yet, but an early example of A.D. (masīḥiyya) dating in the Church of the East comes from Paris ar. 204. The manuscript was partly produced in Famagusta, Cyprus and contains (inter alia) the Letter from the People of Cyprus, a 'Nestorian' recension of an earlier apologetic work. In the colophon (on 66v) for the part containing the Letter, the scribe, Ṣalībā ibn Yūḥannā, gives the date 1336 A.D. alongside the 1647 A.G. The use of A.D. dating is presumably because Cyprus was under Lausignan rule at the time. 

Best wishes,

Salam

--

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "North American Society for Christian Arabic Studies" group.
To post to this group, send email to nas...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
nascas+un...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/nascas?hl=en
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "North American Society for Christian Arabic Studies" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nascas+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nascas/CAHuoaro9xkuYFzVo_eGjJ-8ijAQhARXcVLP_n2w-GMGa7JrSKA%40mail.gmail.com.

--

______________________________________________

Salam Rassi | British Academy Postdoctoral Fellow

University of Oxford

Faculty of History / TORCH | The Oxford Research Centre in the Humanities

Radcliffe Humanities, Woodstock Road, Oxford, OX2 6GG

https://www.history.ox.ac.uk/people/dr-salam-rassi

https://oxford.academia.edu/SalamRassi

https://twitter.com/salam_rassi

[David Calabro]

Dear Salam,

This is a nice example. I don't see it mentioned by Kaufhold in his article, though it makes sense in terms of his discussion on pp. 313-14.

Great to hear from you!

With best wishes,

David

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nascas/CA%2BqejPqSHuP5a0sKV4oYb8%3D%2BofDPsqjvdb1LX0TbRVioSm78KA%40mail.gmail.com.