Manuscript Vat. ar. 111 – fols. 66r–98v

[elio.f.mansour]

Dear Researchers,
Hello,

I hope this message finds you all well.

I’m happy to be part of this group.
I am currently working on "Masāʾil wa-ajwiba ḥawl al-tathlīth wa-l-ittiḥād, ‘Challenges and responses on the Trinity and the [hypostatic] Union’ " (manuscript Vat. ar. 111, fols. 66r–98v) written by ʿAbdallāh ibn al-faḍl al-antạ̄kī, for my master’s thesis.

My work, which will be in French, will consist of a translation, an edition, and a commentary.

I was wondering if anyone else is also working on this manuscript?

Best regards,
Elio Mansour
Sub-deacon,
Maronite Patriarchal Vicariate of Sarba,
Lebanon

[aldeeb sami]

I have the pleasure to offer you the new version of my Arabic edition of the Koran in Chronological order in Syriac, Kufic, Usual and Koranic script.

You may find the pdf version in

https://www.academia.edu/66901372

I am now correcting my translations of the Koran in French, English and Italian, and hope to finish them in less than two months.

The previous editions can be found in my website 

https://www.sami-aldeeb.com/books/

Dr. Sami Aldeeb

Centre de droit arabe et musulman
Ochettaz 17

CH-1025 Saint-Sulpice

Tél. fixe: 0041 21 6916585 - Mobile et Whatsapp: 0041 78 9246196

Site - Academia.edu - Hiwar - Paypal - Wikipedia - Youtube - skype: sami.aldeeb

[Ádám Gacsályi-Tóth]

Hi Elio,

This is definitely an impressive attempt for a master's thesis, I wish you good luck. I don't think anybody is working on this text, exactly because of the fact that there is only one manuscript witness, and it is not customary to make editions on such texts. Ideally it is best to have at least 3-4 witnesses, because there are always illegible portions in these manuscripts. Even if certain parts are perfectly legible, it is still better to have other manuscripts to support your readings. In any case, this is an impressive idea for a master's thesis, although with many open questions. I suggest you read literature on other "questions and answers" type of works. I'm sending you one article which was written on Ammar al-Basri's "Masāʾil wa-ajwiba", although it's not about the Trinity, but it might come in handy to get familiar with the style and logic of these texts, and it contains useful literature in the references as well.

Wish you the best,

Adam

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[Maciej C]

My dear Nascas,

I want to ask you, what was the name for Amalphitans in Arabic?

The reason for this is that some people translate (الملافطة) in Al-Antaki as Amalfitans.

But I believe one should use the version of C manuscript (والقلافطة), that is "and the caulkers." I find it more likely in general, and also, I am not convinced that Al-Mafafita (al-malaqita in some of the manuscripts) mean Amalfitans at all. Why would there be a (ط) in the root, for example? It is there in European adjectives from the city, but there is no reason for it to appear as one of the letters of the root in Arabic.

But then, I simply don't know how Amalfitans were called in Arabic. Does anyone can indicate what they were called (in plural, preferably in irregular plural, as here, if such a form exist) in some other Arabic sources? They DID trade with Muslims after all, so there must be some mentions, but I don't know which source I should look it up in, so I'm asking you.

I will give the due credit to people helping me in my article on possible amendments to the French translation of Al-Antaki. I've made a Polish translation, and I am working on an English one.

Yours, Maciej Czyż

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[Alexandre Roberts]

Dear Maciej (if I may),

Amalfi is mentioned among Arabic documents of the Cairo Geniza, as discussed by Jessica Goldberg's book Trade and Institutions in the Medieval Mediterranean, where various letters sent from Amalfi are discussed; and on page 334, Goldberg writes, "Literary sources indicate the presence of Amalfitans in Islamic markets in the tenth century..." Perhaps following up on the references in her footnote to that sentence (n95) would lead to the Arabic name for Amalfi and Amalfitans. Also, in her bibliography, she cites an article whose title suggests that it might be a shortcut to the Arabic terminology for Amalfi and Amalfitans, at least as found in the Cairo Geniza:

Jacoby, D. 2008. “Amalfi nell’XI secolo: commercio e navigazione nei documenti della Ghenizà del Cairo.” Rassegna del Centro di Cultura e Storia Amalfitana 36 n.s.: 81–90.

I hope that helps!

Best wishes,
Alex

Alexandre Roberts
Associate Professor of Classics and History
University of Southern California
Los Angeles, California

[website]: https://dornsife.usc.edu/profile/alexandre-roberts/
[publications]: https://alexandreroberts.github.io/

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nascas/CAEcyf%3DhhU2S92BOt%2BGd5azwSoULcC1h_2A3U2FYgBSyBCxyjfg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Martino Diez]

Dear Maciej,

Following up the valuable suggestion of professor Roberts, I browsed the article on Amalfi nell’XI secolo, which is available online and full of precious remarks. As far as the name of Amalfi is concerned, this is what Jacoby states:

Il mittente e un altro ebreo consegnarono lettere a un “Mulfitianin” cristiano che stava per partire da Costantinopoli per Alessandria. […] Il termine “Mulfitianin”, che non è stato mai spiegato, chiaramente denota un mercante o un marinaio di Amalfi. Gli Amalfitani erano chiamati “Molfinoi” in greco, “Malafita” in arabo e “Amalphitani”, “Amelfitani”, “Malfitani” o “Malfetani” nelle fonti occidentali: l’ultimo appellativo in documenti veneziani del 1119 e 1144. Sebbene abitasse a Costantinopoli, l’autore della lettera della Ghenizà qui discussa, originario dell’Egitto, usava un appellativo di derivazione araba o italiana.

Thus, ملافطة seems to mean “Amalphitans”. More details are probably found in the accompanying notes.
Thank you for raising this interesting issue,

Martino
Associate Professor of Arabic 
Catholic University of Milan