Running in docker containers in the cloud

[Adam Scott]

Does anyone run production Naryana in the cloud in docker containers (or containerd containers, etc.)?

Will Narayana run in the cloud especially WRT transaction recovery due to the ephemerality of docker containers?

This blog post mentions some difficulties to address, maybe they've been remedied?  https://jbossts.blogspot.com/2022/04/narayana-on-cloud-part-1.html  (could not find a part 2)

TIA,

Adam Scott

[Michael Musgrove]

Narayana is used with the WildFly application server [1] which runs on OpenShift and there is functionality in the WildFly operator [2] to manage the shutdown of pods when there are prepared transactions still waiting for completion. But we don't have any examples of how to run Narayana, with automatic recovery support, directly in the cloud.

[1] https://docs.wildfly.org/30/Getting_Started_on_OpenShift.html
[2] https://github.com/wildfly/wildfly-operator

[Michael Musgrove]

If you don't want to use an application server then Quarkus would be an alternative, I know there has been quite a bit of work invested in the narayana-jta quarkus extension although I haven't used it with OpenShift but you could take a look at their guides and see if provides you with more options than managing your own transaction and recovery manager would. For example, I know that they recently added support for storing transaction logs in database which, for cloud deployments, may or may not be simpler than managing filesystem backed transaction logs.

[Adam Scott]

Thank you Michael! What do you think about our setup we are exploring? Running on containerized Tomcat with a Postgresql and SQL Server backend? Postgresql would be in the cloud and SQL Server in another datacenter with a network connect to the cloud.

It looks like we have this working on local docker containers with rollback and commit working. But do you see any issues with this architecture?

TIA

[Adam Scott]

We went down this path as Narayana is mentioned here: https://docs.spring.io/spring-boot/docs/2.0.x/reference/html/boot-features-jta.html#boot-features-jta-narayana

[Marco Sappe Griot]

Hi Adam,

I would add @Charles Moulliard and @Thomas Qvarnstrom in the discussion that are from the Spring Boot team.

Kind regards,

Marco

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[Marco Sappe Griot]

Hi Thomas,

thank you for answering this email. I added you and Charles because Adam wrote "We went down this path as Narayana is mentioned here: https://docs.spring.io/spring-boot/docs/2.0.x/reference/html/boot-features-jta.html#boot-features-jta-narayana" (see the full discussion).

Furthermore @Adam Scott  wrote

Running on containerized Tomcat with a Postgresql and SQL Server backend? Postgresql would be in the cloud and SQL Server in another datacenter with a network connect to the cloud.

It looks like we have this working on local docker containers with rollback and commit working. But do you see any issues with this architecture?

 

and I would like to ask Adam some more questions:

- Do you mean Spring Boot when you said containerized Tomcat? Or a different framework implementation?

- Could you clarify more about your architecture? How/Where do you persist your transaction data?

Thanks,

Marco

On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 2:09 PM Thomas Qvarnstrom <tqva...@redhat.com> wrote:

I'm not sure how we can help here. I don't see any references to Spring Boot before this in the thread. Generally speaking I guess we can answer like this: Narayana is used in container based cloud environments in several production environments and when configured correctly it's a key component in some of big products used by a lot of high profile companies. I don't think we can answer if it's used in a lot of similar setups as described here and if it's a feasible solution is probably something that the Narayana experts will have to answer.

Best regards

Thomas

[Adam Scott]

Yes, our setup is with spring boot running in tomcat running in a container.

We are using PostgreSQL to store the transaction log instead of a persistent volume (PV) in k8s.

Thank you,

Adam

[Michael Musgrove]

Adam, I think we have provided enough information on the narayana support for this, basically we don't support it directly and you would need to rely on one of the integrations do provide the behaviour you need.