Asus Zenbook UX330UA has great Linux compatibility

Alan Orth

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Apr 16, 2017, 6:04:53 AM4/16/17

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Just a heads up, I saw someone on Reddit mention[0] that the 2017 Asus Zenbook UX330UA[1] has great Linux and it seems like a really awesome machine for about $700 (!). Might be a good choice if you want pro hardware but don't want to go Apple (for twice the price).

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/65db73/so_i_just_got_an_asus_zenbook_and_installed/

[1] https://www.asus.com/Notebooks/ASUS-ZenBook-UX330UA/

Ciao!

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Dennis Mungai

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Apr 16, 2017, 6:52:23 AM4/16/17

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A machine for ascending notebook nobles on Linux, for the PC master race.

Seems to be an impressive, no-frills laptop out of the box, so good work Asus.

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Reuben Cummings

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Apr 21, 2017, 5:16:01 PM4/21/17

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Any comments on how it compares to the Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition or Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon Touch? I'm in the market for a new (linux) laptop (my 5 yo macbook pro is hanging on by a thread).

Reuben

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Dennis Mungai

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Apr 21, 2017, 5:38:41 PM4/21/17

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Let us dissect this methodically:

1. The Asus SKU is flawless on Linux, simple.

2. The Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition works okay, with minor issues with power savings when used with NVMe drives, as explained in (3) below. Dell also has an initiative where firmware updates (UEFI) are done on Linux with fwupd, out of the box. They also support Intel Thunderbolt networking out of the box, and have notable repositories for Dell software geared for Linux, such as Dell's OpenManage infrastructure. TL-DR, if you're looking for hardware that will mostly work, Dell's the way to go with extra polish.

3. The worst of them all: The lenovo ThinkPad X1 carbon touch: This one comes with a Samsung PM-based NVMe drive (OEM), and so far has the worst power management on Linux observed thus far. A solution here is to run Linux 4.11 or backport Andrei Lutomirski's NVMe AST power saving patch to a prior kernel, or else the SKU's core package will never drop below C3. Serious detriment to battery life and thermals. The included NVMe SSD is also known to throttle hard under load due to poor cooling and the firmware it ships with. Your mileage may vary if you're on Windows, but on Linux, this is the case.

TL-DR: With Dell, ensure that their repositories are enabled and that updates are installed, most issues are resolved with newer firmware and software updates.

The Lenovo Thinkpad X1 carbon Touch is a hit and miss.

Dennis Mungai

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Apr 21, 2017, 5:42:58 PM4/21/17

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If you must swing with a lenovo thinkpad X1 carbon, go for the first generation. Slightly older, and nearly everything works out of the box.

It's the Third generation that has teething issues.

Reuben Cummings

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Apr 21, 2017, 5:55:32 PM4/21/17

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Hmm really insightful! This is why I wish Apple never went to the darkside, they make this all so simple. Do the x1 pitfalls apply to both the touch and non-touch versions alike? Also, any suggestions on resources I can use to help pick a good linux laptop? For brief searching, I've found these:

http://www.lappylist.com/laptops/best-programming-laptops/

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14087163

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13949489

https://www.reddit.com/r/SuggestALaptop/comments/5doc0z/13_thin_laptop_with_great_battery_life_and_linux/

https://linux.slashdot.org/story/16/12/03/0727258/ask-slashdot-whats-the-best-linux-laptop

It seems like the general consensus is thinkpad/asus/dell. But there's like a million models to choose from!

Dennis Mungai

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Apr 21, 2017, 6:02:20 PM4/21/17

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What I can tell you to do is WHAT to avoid. Let's get started:

1. MSI: Seriously, for some reason, they break a lot of things with Linux, particularly ACPI and DSDT tables with recent laptops. Tweaks needed aplenty.

2. Dell: avoid the AlienWare gaming laptop line, and if you can, stick to the XPS series.

3. Thinkpads: if you can settle for a slightly older model, you're good. I believe the pitfalls apply to the touch version (As it always comes with the Samsung NVMe SSD configuration).

You can peruse through Ubuntu's certified computers page, as its' one of these few distributions with a Hardware Engineering and Enablement (HWE) team. They know better on a lot of things pertaining Linux support on laptops.

Reuben Cummings

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Apr 21, 2017, 6:07:14 PM4/21/17

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Sawa, looks like I have a bit of research ahead... i'll report back with my top picks. Asante!

Reuben Cummings

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Apr 21, 2017, 6:09:38 PM4/21/17

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FYI, you should write a book. I was recently approached by Packt to write a data science book (based on an upcoming talk I'm scheduled to give next month) so I've been reading up on the whole process (including self publishing). I think something like that would be right up your alley.

Dennis Mungai

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Apr 21, 2017, 6:42:47 PM4/21/17

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LOL yes, too lazy to blog even.

I try, though, haha

Alan Orth

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Apr 22, 2017, 4:14:33 AM4/22/17

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Hey, Reuben.

The Arch Linux wiki is a really good resource for some of these laptops. It lists hardware issues, patches, etc. Here's some for recent XPS 13 models:

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dell_XPS_13_(9360)

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dell_XPS_13_(9350)

And on the ThinkPad Carbon X1:

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Lenovo_ThinkPad_X1_Carbon_(Gen_5)

I know what you mean about wishing you never went to the dark side... I will miss the touchpad the most I think...

Regards,

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Reuben Cummings

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Apr 22, 2017, 8:29:33 AM4/22/17

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This is awesome! Thanks for the links. Btw, I never meant that *I* went to the darkside. I think when I got my macbook ~5yrs ago it was def worth the price w.r.t. everything else out there.

Now though, a combination of better linux support, better designed non-mac laptops (esp. considering touch screens), and Apple just pissing on it's developer user base have made it very hard to justify the price premium. So it's *Apple* that's moving further into the shadows :).

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Reuben Cummings

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Apr 22, 2017, 8:36:34 AM4/22/17

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Also, here's the more general page: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Laptop/Dell.

One questions though... can I infer that good ArchLinux support means equally well Ubuntu support (assuming of course the laptop model isn't listed on the Ubuntu HW site... e.g., they don't list Asus)?

Dennis Mungai

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Apr 22, 2017, 8:38:05 AM4/22/17

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Reuben,

Yes, you may infer that.

Alan Orth

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Apr 22, 2017, 12:44:19 PM4/22/17

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Yeah, Arch Linux is like a bellwether of sorts for these kinds of things because they are rolling release with "upstream stable" policy. The latest kernel, drivers, userland tools, etc. Always! So if it works in Arch, it will work in some Ubuntu version eventually. :P

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Dennis Mungai

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Apr 22, 2017, 6:49:54 PM4/22/17

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And guys,

Be on the watch out for laptops with crippled Thunderbolt 3 controllers.

A prime example: Dell XPS 15: http://www.dell.com/support/article/en/en/frdhs1/QNA44089/thunderbolt-3-40gbps-data-transfer-rate?lang=EN

And also, some Asus GL-series gaming laptops are using a crippled Thunderbolt 3 controller (same case above), and their marketing and technical support departments bullshit their way through this 24/7.

The "crippled" controller referenced above is the JHL6240 thunderbolt controller, see the ARK: https://ark.intel.com/products/94030/Intel-JHL6240-Thunderbolt-3-Controller

And another thing related to the same: Asus, for one, locks the Thunderbolt Firmware update JTAG in their AMI Aptio firmware capsules, meaning that over time, newer features such as Thunderbolt Networking will never work on older Falcon Ridge Thunderbolt 2 controllers (Haswell) for no good reason. Clearly retarded decision.

What this means:

If you depend on a single-port Thunderbolt device chain (with daisy chaining), your performance will be impacted significantly.

As always:

1. Do your research. No skimping :-)

2. Take reviews with a pinch of salt. Sponsored shit happens all the time, and the realization that you whacked a lemon hits you harder when your money is down the drain on a purchase you can't justify. Pay and likewise judge with your wallet!!!

So, what do you do when reviews are not to be trusted?

Simple: Go to forums such as these hosted on notebookcheck.net and Reddit, where real users voice their opinions on actual hardware they've owned.

For example, you won't see any serious Linux user purchase Dell's AlienWare line. These machines are absolute garbage on Linux, something the user community has known for years. Quality control for AlienWare's line clearly differs from Dell's XPS line.

-Dennis.

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Dennis Mungai

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Jun 2, 2018, 11:41:05 AM6/2/18

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Check out Fedora.

Highly polished of late.

On 29 May 2018 at 23:53, Eduardo Alapisco <alap...@gmail.com> wrote:

Any distro you recommend ? A year ago I tried the latest Ubuntu and Fedora on a 1st gen , but had several issues , specially with battery duration.

Thanks in advance

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Duncan Njoroge

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Jun 5, 2018, 4:23:45 AM6/5/18

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Been following this discussion for a while and I'm just about to go down the thinkpad t480 line. Reviews i've read from are from r/thinkpad & notebookcheck as per dennis's recommendation, I've only but read one bad review of the computer and it was running windows and had some cpu issues:

https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/8ls0ai/my_t480s_just_arrived_today_and_its_a_piece_of/

Still, will revert when ( if / when ) i own the computer.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Duncan Njoroge

Alan Orth

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Jun 5, 2018, 1:31:17 PM6/5/18

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Hi,

I just picked up a ThinkPad Carbon X1 (6th Gen) and have been running Arch Linux on it for the past week. I don't know if it passes Denno's ThunderBolt 3 test, but it's a nice laptop, especially if you have never used a MacBook Pro (I will honestly only miss the trackpad). I assume the T480 you mention will be similar to this, as they are they same generation and mostly only differ in premium features like build quality, screen resolution, thinness, etc. Check the Arch Linux wiki for ThinkPad models to see what the current state of Linux hardware support is, for example the Carbon X1 6th Gen[0]. Even if you're not planning on running Arch Linux it's a good indicator because Arch has current stable kernel, userland, etc, and those will eventually trickle down to other distros (actually Fedora has pretty up to date stuff surprisingly!).

[0] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Lenovo_ThinkPad_X1_Carbon_(Gen_6)

Regards,

Dennis Mungai

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Jun 5, 2018, 6:36:26 PM6/5/18

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In the last few days, I've been rocking the Eurocom Q6 (based on the Clevo P950ER chassis) with the following specs:

Processor: Intel Core i7 8750H (6 cores, 12 logical threads, 9MB L3 cache).

Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 with Max-Q design.

RAM: 2 * 16 GB (32 GB) of DDR4-2667MHz SODIMMs (by Corsair).

Storage: 1 * 1 TB Samsung 960 Evo + 1 * 2 TB Crucial MX300 SATA III SSD

And an unlocked AMI Aptio UEFI with controls for overclocking and undervolting.

Spec sheet: http://www.eurocom.com/ec/configure(2,449,0)EurocomQ6 (see the port layouts).

Current observations:

When set up right, namely blacklisting nouveau (whose support for newer Pascal GPUs is lacking) and the appropriate boot options to grub, you'll get a very fast, responsive system with no issues whatsoever.

Setup guide: https://gist.github.com/Brainiarc7/f7da590bee1ed35ac5ed258ff9335fd6

Which also includes a conky configuration file used on the system.

Virtually all components work after setup, including onboard audio, proper headphone jack detection (with a few changes to the /usr/share/pulseaudio/alsa-mixer/paths/iec958-stereo-output.conf file to update the profile descriptor for the connector) and backlight controls.

Keyboard backlight controls are a miss at the moment on Linux, for now.

Why I avoid Thinkpads:

The current generation models (in the budget segment) are utter garbage. Period. Save your money and look elsewhere. The slightly older generations (like the one Alan is using) is OK. It's the new batches you should avoid, for now.

There's one attempt at matching current gen systems for performance in the ThinkPad P50, but for some reason, Lenovo are too brain damaged and deranged to develop proper cooling controls for it and it throttles like crap.

Some users say that this is mostly fixed in the newer Xeon-based P51 and P71-series Thinkpad lines, something you'll pay for dearly (as they're both flagships).

I'll begin contributing to the Arch Wiki's docs on laptop compatibility with Linux (particularly for the Clevos I have).

If you REALLY want to help with *nix compatibility, upload a hardware probe to this project: https://linux-hardware.org/

Samples:

1. For the P751DM2-G: https://linux-hardware.org/?probe=9fcaed033f

2. The Q6: https://linux-hardware.org/?probe=001ab8c139

Then inspect the logs closely, and any boot options needed to get Linux up and running correctly.

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Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Duncan Njoroge

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Alan Orth
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Duncan Njoroge

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Jun 6, 2018, 6:32:45 AM6/6/18

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Actually agree on the throttling like crap bit, not to mention the lack of proper cooling controls on the thinkpads. Forums are unforgiving when it comes to tearing down the new gen thinkpads. Matter of fact, had recently tested out the e480 and had to return it cause the palm rest was heating up.

Honestly, I'm at an impasse with my thoughts considering the budget I have (~150k) and specs wise ( looking for a 16gb, 1tb, 14" , i5 laptop ) and durability plays a huge part in this. The local market doesn't have enough to go by considering my needs. Precisely why i opted to go the thinkpad way. Old gens are not even in stock with suppliers.

Would go with Alan's option however, budget constraints :( Thanks though.

Still, I'd definitely be welcome to suggestions and dennos looks like a great choice but sasa sina 200k+ 😅

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Duncan Njoroge

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Dennis Mungai

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Jun 6, 2018, 7:24:31 AM6/6/18

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Duncan,

I have a recommendation for you, from Acer.

The older Acer Helios 300.

Fots your budget, no major deal breakers with Linux.

Ibrahim Ng'eno

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Jun 6, 2018, 10:23:40 AM6/6/18

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Xiaomi Mi Notebook pro ... no thunderbolt though

Dennis Mungai

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Jun 6, 2018, 10:38:45 AM6/6/18

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Ibrahim,

How much does that go for at the moment?

Duncan Njoroge

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Jun 8, 2018, 4:29:17 AM6/8/18

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Thanks guys for the feedback.

Will look into this. :)

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