Improving the icebox performance

[Jim Breashears]

I've added 4" of foam to the bottom, 2" the inboard side, added Great Stuff to fill the aft, port side and forward empty spaces outside the box. I also added a seal to the ill fitting lid and a removable plug to the drain. This increased ice lasting from 2.5 to 6 days in similar outside temps. No scientific measurement used - just how long it took to go from adding a bag of ice to a room temp box to about 25% of ice remaining.

Do any of you have ideas or had successful projects on increasing the insulating qualities of the lid without intruding too much into storage space? Have anyone used one of those wireless weather stations to monitor the temps in the box - if so, how well does it work?

Thanks!

Jim

[David Mokler]

Jim - That is exactly one of my projects for this spring. Thanks for the information.  I will think some about the increasing the insulating properties of the lid.  Thanks.

David

Jim

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[Jim Breashears]

David,

If you're on Facebook, go to the Mystic Sailboats page and "Like" it. One photo in the "Interiors" album shows the original sink cut out and you can see the blue foam boards installed, but also the yellow Great Stuff seeping out of the edges. I used a small plastic hose attached to the GS's to extend the reach into those cavities.

Jim

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[Sylvia Lachter]

Hi All,

Hope everyone had an easy winter!

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with re-doing their companionway hatch cover?

Mine started leaking last year.
It looks like it's coming in through the seams.
I'm going to strip it down, but does anyone have any thoughts about which caulking is best to use on the seams?
I was also thinking about giving it 2 - 3 coats with the West System epoxy to really waterproof it, then varnish it.

Any recommendations would be appreciated!

Thanks,
Sylvia
Nutmeg of Consolation

[Jim Breashears]

Wow, ours did this winter, we need the same advice.

[Craig Bush]

I poured epoxy in the seams on the inside when inverted, then fitted a panel of matte white vinyl over the whole thing inside to hide the mess and make a nice white ceiling like the rest of the cabin top on the inside. It brightened up the interior as well. Sorry to the purists if there are any left besides Peter.

Best,

Craig

---

From: Jim Breashears <obxre...@gmail.com>
To: mystic-10-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, May 3, 2013 7:32:46 PM
Subject: Re: Mystic Sailboats:231 Re:Hatch Cover Question

Wow, ours did this winter, we need the same advice.

On May 3, 2013, at 7:33 PM, Sylvia Lachter wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Hope everyone had an easy winter!
>
> I was wondering if anyone had any experience with re-doing their companionway hatch cover?
>
> Mine started leaking last year. 
> It looks like it's coming in through the seams. 
> I'm going to strip it down, but does anyone have any thoughts about which caulking is best to use on the seams?
> I was also thinking about giving it 2 - 3 coats with the West System epoxy to really waterproof it,  then varnish it.
>
> Any recommendations would be appreciated!
>
> Thanks,
> Sylvia
> Nutmeg of Consolation
>
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[Sylvia Lachter]

Jim - sorry to hear your hatch is leaking too!

What year is your boat?

Mine is 1978...35 years is not bad without a leak on the hatch.

And I'm in Peter's camp (Jenkins or Legnos?), but whichever one, I agree. i think the hatch is a beautifully crafted piece of work and needs to be admired from above and below!

Though brightening up that area sounds pretty good too.

I keep wanting to make a plexiglass insert for rainy days when I'm at anchor.

I called the West System people about the merits of the regular 105 vs. their GFlex epoxy , which I use all the time and love.

The technical person said the 105 would be perfect for this application. He agreed that I could use the GFlex,  but t's thicker viscosity would make it hard to roll out.

He really seemed to think the 105 would be better in this case.

I guess I could so a version of what Craig did without the the vinyl.  Apply the epoxy from the top and let it fill in thru the seams in the planks.

It would mean a bit more scraping / sanding on the underside to fare the drips but at least I would know that the open areas were filled in.

Hopefully the epoxy would encapsulate whatever the "caulking" is that's in between the planks.

What I'd love to know is what is the caulking that was originally used by Peter Legnos.

Does anyone know?

Peter (Legnos) do you read these posts?

Is it Ok to be asking? I don't want to impose.

I'll be starting the process of stripping the old varnish off this weekend with a heat gun and will keep everyone posted.

And if anyone still has anything to add - I'd love to hear it.

Thanks,

Sylvia

 

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[Jim Breashears]

On May 3, 2013, at 11:03 PM, Sylvia Lachter wrote:

Jim - sorry to hear your hatch is leaking too!

What year is your boat?

Mine is 1978...35 years is not bad without a leak on the hatch.

Papoose was built in '77. I thought Nutmeg and Papoose were the only two built side by side at the same time?

And I'm in Peter's camp (Jenkins or Legnos?), but whichever one, I agree. i think the hatch is a beautifully crafted piece of work and needs to be admired from above and below!

Though brightening up that area sounds pretty good too.

I keep wanting to make a plexiglass insert for rainy days when I'm at anchor.

I called the West System people about the merits of the regular 105 vs. their GFlex epoxy , which I use all the time and love.

The technical person said the 105 would be perfect for this application. He agreed that I could use the GFlex,  but t's thicker viscosity would make it hard to roll out.

He really seemed to think the 105 would be better in this case.

I guess I could so a version of what Craig did without the the vinyl.  Apply the epoxy from the top and let it fill in thru the seams in the planks.

It would mean a bit more scraping / sanding on the underside to fare the drips but at least I would know that the open areas were filled in.

Hopefully the epoxy would encapsulate whatever the "caulking" is that's in between the planks.

Why not disassemble the hatch and put it back together with new glue/epoxy? 

Ours is too thin to do that. We need new wood.

What I'd love to know is what is the caulking that was originally used by Peter Legnos.

Does anyone know?

Peter (Legnos) do you read these posts?

Is it Ok to be asking? I don't want to impose.

I'll be starting the process of stripping the old varnish off this weekend with a heat gun and will keep everyone posted.

And if anyone still has anything to add - I'd love to hear it.

We just finished stripping the mast and staysail boom. working on main boom today. Wanted to start varnishing today, but it's 53 and blowing 30 off the ocean. I am sure the bare wood is absorbing damp salt air as we speak.

[Peter Jenkin]

My hatch has never leaked.  I don't varnish it, but use Semco teak sealer on it.  Perhaps that allows it to swell and tighten up like a wooden boat.  Anyway, at this point I don't expect any leaking because of the dodger, but pre-dodger there was never a problem.  Ladybug is 1977.

I made a plexiglass hatch board a few years ago.  It's great on a rainy or chilly day, allowing a lot more light into tha cabin.

Peter

[Sylvia Lachter]

I don't know much about what other boats were built at that time. Nutmeg's original name was the Marybeth.

And don't think I'm quite ambitious enough to take it apart and put it back together again at this point.

Stripped the top of the hatch yesterday, and will work on cleaning out the old caulking today.

Think I can get deep enough to get out most of it, and then will re-caulk, though still not sure with what.

Keep you posted.

[Sylvia Lachter]

Tempting to consider the Semco. Certainly easier than varnishing. 

But I'm concerned that the caulking is compromised, and what's causing the leaking...

Sent from my iPhone

[Jim Breashears]

In our southern sun, Semco did not do well. It would only last for a couple of weeks or so.

We quickly changed to a product made for the exterior of homes by Flood. We used that for a year and found it was very hard to touch up the next year without looking blotchy and it was a bit orange like Cetol.  Then our friends (who had told us about it) said it did not hold up well in the tropical sun (they're now cruising http://ploddinginparadise.blogspot.com ) and they switched to Cetol with a new formula and it was no longer orange. So we tried it.

We like it!! We have had it on a year (cockpit slats & seat, toerail, handrails, both hatches, bowsprit and boomkin). They all look the same as they did when I applied it last year. No orange and I am very impressed with how easy it is to use. This time of year you can do two coats a day without sanding and you only put 3 on unless it's a spot you want gloss. For gloss you do an additional 2 two coats with their clear gloss product (two a day). 

Using Natural or Gloss, if you have to wait longer than 8 hours for the next coat, it can't make a chemical bond so you need to sand. Also, touch up is very easy too, but you have to mark your touch up with frog tape or something because after the first coat on a deep scratch, it disappears. We had guests aboard one night and someone spilled a fruity drink which I did not see. By the next time we got back to the boat, the acid in the drink had eaten the finish off. I can't find the spot I patched anymore.

Their labeling is confusing to me, their "Natural Teak" product should be called "Natural" as it is just that and looks great on teak or any other wood. Identical to varnish.

Jim

[Jake Smith]

It seems surprising that the seams would be leaking. My hatch is fitted together quite tightly and is awaiting a finish. even with the tremendous rains of the the past couple of weeks (here in Miami), there is not a drop getting through.

A resin or epoxy may not help much. I think it would be difficult to get it deep into the seams, or is would be visible and somewhat unsightly. Varnish, by itself, should do the job quite well. I have decided to go with Sikkens Cetol on Amaru. I just finished all the cockpit wood with three coats of natural and two coats of gloss.

If you did want to use an epoxy or resin, I would look at:

1. Make a good effort to remove any old resin from the seams. Using a narrow blade (razor or exacto) dig down and remove what you can, trying not to remove any of the wood.

2. Using a hypodermic needle, inject the resin or epoxy into the seam carefully. Resin is typically less thick than epoxy. Epoxy can be thinned with denatured alcohol. Additionally, applying heat to the seams immediately after injecting the epoxy will cause it to thin and get down further into the seam.

3. Repeat the injection of epoxy or resin after the initial injection has dried. Be careful not to overload the seams.

4. You may need to remove excess epoxy. A Dremel with a fine-tipped sanding bit would be my recommendation for removal after the epoxy has dried.

5. Sand and finish with your choice of product.

Good luck!


Jake Smith

[Sylvia Lachter]

Hi Jake,

Thanks for your considered response.
I spent the weekend stripping the hatch and then cleaning out the seams.
I don't know if the leaking is coming from the seam, or thru some small cracks that I have in the planks.

I have a nifty dental tool that did very well at getting into the grooves, but then someone working nearby offered their multi-tool and that really did the job.
It was quick and effectively cleaned out the seams without making them bigger.
I had thought of re-caulking first with TDS (Teal Deck Systems) caulking, but they didn't recommend their product if I was going to epoxy, or varnish the rest of the hatch.
So spoke to the technical people at West Systems, and they first recommended filling the grooves with the GFlex650 because it seems to have a 32% flexibility rating.
But then he thought maybe best to coat the whole top with their regular 105 with 2 -3 coats, which also has some flexibility, including just a little deep into the grooves, and after it's dry than either fill it with the GFGlexlex or with the polysulfide caulking.
Then varnish over the epoxy for UV protection.
I think that's probably the way that's l'll go.

Thanks!
Sylvia

[Jim Breashears]

Keep us up to date Sylvia!

Sent from my phone

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Beach Realty & Construction
252.256.0818 (cell)
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[Sylvia Lachter]

OK I will!

[Jim Breashears]

While We're at, it I'll ask 10-3 owners what varnish they use on their mast.

Sent from my phone

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[Sylvia Lachter]

I've been using Epiphanes Gloss Clear for the last 5 -6 years and really like it.

Used to do the natural bristol brushes but find that the foam brushes do an really good job too - and much easier!

[Jim Breashears]

Great!

Anyone else?

Thanks!!!!

Sent from my phone

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Beach Realty & Construction
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[Peter Jenkin]

I use Epifanes on Ladybug's mast, and Deks Olje #1 and #2 on the spars.

Peter

[Jim Breashears]

Hi All,

I hope all are warm and well.

I've started on the leaking hatch and have posted photos/descriptions on our Facebook page in an album. Advice/Comments Welcome!

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.575885789149761.1073741826.428977563840585&type=3

Please "Like" our Facebook page if you have not.

Advice/Comments Welcome!

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[Chuck Helms]

Jim

 

All is well with you I trust.  Benbow made it through the winter fine on its mooring and I took her out over the weekend for her shakedown sail.  Couple of questions for you

 

How do most of you guys run the sheet/s on your staysail?  Self tailing, traveler, single sheet to the cockpit?  It looks loke mine originaly had a traveler mounted on the cabin but no longer.  I have looked at several options but wanted to get your thoughts.  I have converted the head sail to RF but left the staysail hank-on because thats were I hank my storm sail. So the sheets, blocks, etc will need to be pretty stout.  Any thoughts on a set-up?

 

 

Is your jib and staysail the same size as on a Mystic 30?  If so can you send me their sizes if you have them close by.

 

Is your boat in the water yet?

 

thanks chuck

 

 

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[Jim Breashears]

Chuck,

Hi Chuck,

Good thing you went sailing when you did, it's back to winter again for a while!

Staysail sheets:

Papoose has a horse with a bronze single block, with becket, attached. The staysail boom end has another block and the last block near the staysail attachment point on the aft end of the bowsprit. From there the sheet runs over the coach roof back to a cleat above the galley port. 

[Chuck Helms]

Jim thanks

 

neat pics  thanks.  my staysail no longer has a boom since it is my place to hank on the storm jib.  Have you seen any of the others do away with the boom and what set-up did they go with?

 

thanks chuck 

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Yankee sheets:

This will be interesting to me to hear everyone's answer. I hope we get a few comments. I did not ask anyone before we ran them on Papoose, but I have come to run them between the upper shrouds and the lowers to get the best set going up wind.

Papoose's Yankee it on RF too. The previous owners said that if we did one thing, it should be to put RF on the staysail too. I wanted to, but the admiral voted it down.

I've got a question for you; When using staysail alone, Papoose's tendency is to fall off the wind (too far forward of the center of resistance?) so I keep up the main, reefed if necessary, and lower the staysail for better balance. 

Sorry, but I do not have sail sizes.

Papoose is in the water and we are putting on a new eyebrow. Ever steam bend wood? I haven't until now, it's takes an afternoon of steaming, but it goes on pretty smooth with two people. I'll post pictures and a description on FB when we are done. 

The ugly box is protecting the wood/finish on the hatch.

For Carol Stenberg: I forgot to tell you about this email list so you can keep up with the group email. It doesn't get used often, but is very informative when it does. Go to the link below to see if there is a place to sign up. 

http://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/mystic-10-3-sailboats

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[Peter Jenkin]

I don't think anyone else has done away with the traveller horse or staysail boom, as far as I know.  It's nice to have it self-tending with only the one sheet as Jim described.  I've never sailed under staysail alone, but am tempted to try it on a run as the main blankets both headsails.  My staysail is probably smaller than most because I'm gaff rigged, resulting in a shorter mast.  It's small enough to be a substitute storm jib.  Some boats have a set of reef points in the staysail as well, for just that purpose.

Pete Jenkin

[Chuck Helms]

Peter

 

thanks.  the original owner took off the boom when it knocked his brother in the water during a gale. (both in their 70's at the time).  He told me he pitched it over the side  :)   I am considering putting one back on but wanted to see what other owners had tried through the years.

 

thanks chuck

[Jim Breashears]

Chuck,

I know Ptarmigan has this setup and maybe Craig can answer your questions about it if he's sees this. I could not find photos of his boat that shows it setup, but you can see the port side of his traveler in the photo below. 

[Chuck Helms]

Jim thanks  the pic is very helpful.  On your earlier ?.   "When using staysail alone, Papoose's tendency is to fall off the wind (too far forward of the center of resistance?) so I keep up the main, reefed if necessary, and lower the staysail for better balance." 

 

Unless it is a whale of a gale,  I do something like you. Except I also keep a small triangle of the Yank rolled out.     If the wind really gets going I roll up the last part of the Yank,  drop the last of the main and let her ride

On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Jim Breashears <obxre...@gmail.com> wrote:

Chuck,

I know Ptarmigan has this setup and maybe Craig can answer your questions about it if he's sees this. I could not find photos of his boat that shows it setup, but you can see the port side of his traveler in the photo below. 

[Craig Bush]

Yes, Ptarmigan has a furling staysail led to a boom. The trick with this setup is leading the outhaul so it doesn't foul the staysail sheet. So our furling line is led from the sail, to the end of the boom, from there forward to a turning block at the foot of the boom, then back to a cleat on the cabin top. Works great. Any ??.

Regards, Craig 

From: Chuck Helms <helm...@gmail.com>
To: mystic-10-...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: Mystic Sailboats:261 Re:Hatch Cover Question

Jim thanks  the pic is very helpful.  On your earlier ?.   "When using staysail alone, Papoose's tendency is to fall off the wind (too far forward of the center of resistance?) so I keep up the main, reefed if necessary, and lower the staysail for better balance." 

 

Unless it is a whale of a gale,  I do something like you. Except I also keep a small triangle of the Yank rolled out.     If the wind really gets going I roll up the last part of the Yank,  drop the last of the main and let her ride

On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Jim Breashears <obxre...@gmail.com> wrote:

Chuck,

I know Ptarmigan has this setup and maybe Craig can answer your questions about it if he's sees this. I could not find photos of his boat that shows it setup, but you can see the port side of his traveler in the photo below. 

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On Apr 16, 2014, at 10:45 AM, Chuck Helms wrote:

Jim thanks

 

neat pics  thanks.  my staysail no longer has a boom since it is my place to hank on the storm jib.  Have you seen any of the others do away with the boom and what set-up did they go with?

 

thanks chuck 

On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Jim Breashears <obxre...@gmail.com> wrote:

Chuck,

Hi Chuck,

Good thing you went sailing when you did, it's back to winter again for a while!

Staysail sheets:

Papoose has a horse with a bronze single block, with becket, attached. The staysail boom end has another block and the last block near the staysail attachment point on the aft end of the bowsprit. From there the sheet runs over the coach roof back to a cleat above the galley port. 

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[Jim Breashears]

Chuck,

I've ghosted under staysail alone getting ready to sail into a slip. Even in that light wind it still fell off a lot. I had to raise the main to keep from getting out of the narrow channel.

I think the most wind we've been in is only around 35kts. We were going upwind with reefed main (luffing a lot so as not to strain anything) and motor doing about a knot. We hoisted the staysail and sheeted it in tight leaving the main to luff still. I was so surprised at that we gained 1.5 knots with such a small sail, but it appears they work so much better together. It was a lot easier to control too. We rounded a point and headed off the wind. We sheeted the main in as we turned so as not to put it's full face to the wind, but let the staysail do the work. Now were doing 2.5 to 3 knots under, mostly, staysail with the motor off. Very easy to control, but we only had 3 quartering chop ( we were in a sound with fairly shallow water, but a long fetch) to fight.

So, what I am getting at is, is it better to have a storm sail replace the staysail or the main or both? 

Going upwind in much higher winds than this, I would think a trysail on the mast, which would mostly remove the effect of wind pressure at the end of the main boom - more balanced? But going off the wind, the staysail seemed like the easy choice. 

I am sure others in this group are a lot more experienced at this and I would love to hear your comments.

Thanks,

Jim

[Chuck Helms]

any chance you have a pic of the set-up

 

thanks chuck

[Jim Breashears]

No, I was posing the question to the group for opinions 

[Chuck Helms]

Jim sorry thought I was responding to Craig  thanks

[Chuck Helms]

Jim

just retuned to the states.  listing of boat is below if you friend is still interested

thanks chuck

http://newlondon.craigslist.org/boa/5287306259.html

On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 9:30 PM, Jim Breashears <OBXRe...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Jim Breashears]

Just sent it to him.

Thanks,

Jim

Sent from my phone

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Jim Breashears, G.R.I.
Beach Realty & Construction
252.256.0818 (cell)
Email: obxre...@mac.com

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From a Computer:http://sn.im/21v7h3d   
From Your Mobile: http://jim.obxwhere.com

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