Feature Request: We need a 'Forced' Next Action to allow more than one Next Action per large project

[John Smith]

Hello

In the app I have just left (the rather good GTDNext), they have an incredibly useful feature called "Forced Next". The idea here is that particularly on larger projects you do not want to be overwhelmed by seeing too many Next Actions on the screen at once. However although you want to "complete subtasks in order" or at least you want to complete MOST of them in order, in reality life is seldom that simple and sometimes you want to select one or two additional tasks to appear in the Next Action list.

This means that for a larger project with a larger number of items, you are not constrained to just having the *one* Next Action, nor are you overwhelmed with seeing the whole queue of future Next Actions all at once.

I have posted my request here:
https://mlo.uservoice.com/forums/9235-general/suggestions/6777433--forced-next-action-so-that-we-have-have-more-tha

Anyone else want to vote for it?

J

P.S. I am a newbie to MLO so I am hoping that I have done the correct thing.

[Dwight Arthur]

“complete subtasks in order” is useful for some smaller, simpler projects. When you get to the larger and more complex stuff you need to handle some diverse types of scheduling constraints. “Forced Next” seems like a good way to handle some but not all types of scheduling constraints. In my opinion a more generalized answer is the dependency constraint handled by MLO. With this, you can set up a project where task b becomes active when task a is completed, tasks c and d both become active when task b is completed, task e becomes active when tasks c and d are both completed and also task x from some other project has been completed, and task f becomes active five days after task e is completed. All of this is currently available. Dependencies can only be created on the desktop but once created will be processed correctly on desktop or mobile.

 

This is more work because all of the simple tasks where M follows L which follows J have to be coded as simple but explicit dependencies. But once it’s set up it’s easy and powerful to use. One more bit of good news is that the really big and complex projects that need this often closely resemble the last big and complex project you ran, so you can create a template and then just create a new project from the template and it will come up with all the dependencies predefined.

-Dwight

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[Dwight Arthur]

ps posting to uservoice was probably the right thing to do, and posting here to announce your request and solicit votes is definitely the right thing to do. But you might have wanted to have a discussion about how other people feel about the suggestion before posting it.

[John Smith]

Re dependencies - yes, I hear your. But setting up dependencies explicitly sounds sensible for larger projects (unless you do the entire planning elsewhere using dedicated PM software) however I IMHO, it is *way* too painful for small/medium sized projects.

e.g. Suppose I have a Project with 8 Actions. In GTD theory you need  one Next Action for each project. But in reality I have 2 of them are good to go right now, (and both are urgent). I don't want to fiddle about with dependencies and I don't want to be overwhelmed by seeing all 8 actions either! I just want to see the two Next Actions. 

I mean count the keystrokes!

Basically I want to bash all the Actions is a fast as possible into the correct project. TBH, even giving each of the Actions a context is slightly painful, but if I select all the ones with the same context at once I can enter them all in one go - NICE, btw! - but still a pain.  

[Aside: Is there any way for an action to *automatically* inherit the contexts for the Action above it in this list? I have spotted to fudge of creating a SUB-project and then Outdenting it. Yes not bad but still extra keystrokes]

And then I have to tell the project that its setting is  "Complete subtasks in order"... [deep sigh]

Well this ought to be easy with the Alt P hotkey... but not so fast, first I must go and manually select the project we are in. So it's Left Arrow first and THEN Alt P. ==> [Again incrementally more keystokes!]

And even though I know I'm going to want to set every project I ever have to "Complete subtasks in order", apparently there is no global default setting for this. (Is this really true, btw?)

J

[John Smith]

I still say that a really user-friendly implementation of "Forced Next Action" (i.e. the ability to individually ad d additional actions to the single official Next Action for a project) would be a good idea.

Using dependencies is a step too far for most newbie (including me so far).

Fwiw, I seem to have sumbled upon a way around for now to achieve a simultated "Forced Next Action" which is to simply tick the Project button on the additional Action that you wish to Force onto the Next Actions list. 

Does that work for anyone else?

On Saturday, November 29, 2014 1:30:07 AM UTC, Dwight Arthur wrote:

[John Smith]

I feel strongly about this and I want to revisit this issue.

MLO tries to force you to work in an extremely strict sequential mode in it's Next Actions i.e. it only shows one Next Action at a time for each project. However, as Folke says "If more than one action [on a project] is truly actionable right now [then] you should list them all as next actions." And like Folke I HATE being forced into this way of working.

Is it just me ? Doesn't anyone else here mind being forced to work like this by MLO?

(Personally GTDNext where I lived for about 3 weeks before MLO, has a "Force Next" option which I miss baldly!). To recap, after some sweat I discovered a workaround on MLO, which is messy but does sort of work - which is to call your Action (that is within a Project) a Project itself, and sure enough it will then appear as a Next Action (so long as it has no children obviously).

One down-side is that it can start to mess with your head as to whether something is really a Next Action or is really a Project (as you need to us different naming conventions - e.g. if something is really a Project then in GTD, you need to describe the desired outcome/state rather than what the activity itself involves, right?!)

Another down-side is that if you use automatic formatting to show you whether it is a Project or an Action, obviously your formatting gets messed up (i.e. with Actions looking like Projects!) 

Fwiw, what I do is I have my Actions in black and my Projects in bold (but also in dark grey to stop them shouting too much). And then if I (occasionally) want to do a "Force Next" on an Action (so as to make it appear on the Next Actions list), then I simply make the Action become Project (using Alt/J hotkey). This makes it go bold of course, but I can then remove the boldness by hitting Control/B twice! Rather clunky but it works.

I have added this request to https://mlo.uservoice.com/forums/9235-general/suggestions/6946033-allow-more-than-one-next-action-within-a-project

So to recap, what I am calling for is a new field called "Force Next" (or something similar) that will in effect for that Action to appear in the Next Actions view even if it is not the one official Next Action for the Project in question.

Is anyone with me?

J

P.S. Should I perhaps start a nice new clean thread, or will that be irritating for people around here?

[Christoph Zwerschke]

Am 10.01.2015 um 06:27 schrieb John Smith:

> MLO tries to force you to work in an extremely strict sequential mode

Does it? You can check "complete subtasks in order" for every project.
By default it is unchecked, so I wonder how you got this impression.

-- Chris

[John Smith]

You misunderstand me. What I said was "...extremely strict sequential mode in it's Next Actions"

i.e. Yes MLO forces you to work in a strict sequential manner, only seeing ONE Next Action per project, when you are using the Next Actions views !

[Christoph Zwerschke]

Am 10.01.2015 um 13:44 schrieb John Smith:
>
> You misunderstand me. What I said was "...extremely strict sequential

> mode /*in it's Next Actions*/"

>
> i.e. Yes MLO forces you to work in a strict sequential manner, only

> seeing ONE Next Action per project, /when you are using the Next Actions
> views/ !

Ah, ok, you're right, the "Next Actions by Project" view shows only one
(next) action per project. But MLO does not force you to use that view.
You can easily duplicate it, rename it to "Active Actions by Project",
and then change "Next Actions" to "Active Actions" in the section Filter
-> General.

-- Chris

[Christoph Zwerschke]

Am 10.01.2015 um 14:02 schrieb Christoph Zwerschke:
> But MLO does not force you to use that view. You can easily duplicate
> it, rename it to "Active Actions by Project", and then change "Next
> Actions" to "Active Actions" in the section Filter -> General.

In this view, you will see all active actions per project. In projects
where you ticked "complete subtasks in order", only the next subtask is
considered active, so you see only one task there, like in the "Next
Actions by Project" view. But in all other projects, you see all the
other active actions as well.

-- Chris

[J Smith]

Chris

Thanks - yes I am aware of the "complete subtasks in order" functionality... but that definitely isn't what I want either(!)

To recap, for most of my projects, in accordance with GTD theory, I don't want to see ALL my upcoming Actions for a project (as this is overwhelming, plus it tends to stops you maintaining momentum in several Projects at once...) And instead I want to be able to see a small, manageable number of Next Actions at once for each project.

And although sometimes this "small" number will one, in practice it will often be 3 or 4 because it needs to be all the Actions that are genuinely Actionable right now. (realistically up to a limit of say 4 or 5) and because I want to be able to choose between them.
 
To recap, one of the core premises of GTD theory is that we live in unpredictable and rapidly changing environments. And not only does the external world of projects, priorities, opportunities keep changing, but as if that wasn't enough, so do does one's personal location, mood/mode and levels of both energy & will power!

...Hence the GTD's recommended use of Context.

But if MLO only shows one Next Action for each project, and if the Context of that one Next Action doesn't match my current Context, then I simply won't see the other Actions that are "good-to-go" (i.e. immediately actionable) if they do not match my current Context.

For this reason if the system just shows me ONE of the say three or four Actions that I need to do on a project right now, then it may well be that I don't get to realize that now in fact would have been a GREAT time to do that Action.

In fact one of those Actions that was truly actionable right now might have become urgent but because it was buried I wouldn't have seen it.

OR.. if perhaps the one Action that was visible had in fact become difficult to execute for some reason... (perhaps it was just of such a large size / energy level / time requirement/ high psychological resistance that I couldn't get one to it) then , I would have lost the opportunity to maintain momentum on the project by executing a what was a much simpler Action that was "good to go" but which was hidden by the MLO Next Action view (or "complete subtasks in order" view)

*   *   *

It seems clear to me that the solution is to expect the system to deliver just one Action per Project, but to also allow the user to flag up tasks (particularly if they are high priority) that are also actionable immediately.

GTDNext has this, which is a field which it called "Forced Next" (a strange term but which implies that the Action in question is FORCED onto the Next Action view even if it is not top of the list. I found that it to be intuitive and extremely useful.

Is anyone with me?

J

P.S. Apologies for lengthy reply (but I didnt have time to write a shorter version!)

[Christoph Zwerschke]

Am 10.01.2015 um 22:20 schrieb J Smith:
> And although sometimes this "small" number will one, in practice it will
> often be 3 or 4 because it needs to be all the Actions that are
> genuinely Actionable right now. (realistically up to a limit of say 4 or
> 5) and because I want to be able to choose between them.

MLO already shows the *active* actions, i.e. those that it thinks *are*
actionable (e.g. no start date or start date passed, context not
closed). How do you distinguish between "actionable" and "genuinely
actionable"? There must be criteria.

Or do you just want to show the first 3 or 4? Then you should propose an
extension to the "group by..." functionality that allows you to show
only the first n entries per group. That might be useful indeed to keep
the lists smaller.

> so do does one's personal location, mood/mode and levels of both
energy & will power!

Location and time are already factored in when determining the active
actions, by looking whether the context of the tasks is open (you need
to uncheck "include closed" in the filter). Mood and energy can be
handled by additional filtering on certain flags or contexts, time
required or effort.

-- Chris

[Stéph]

Hello John,

I think that MLO has enough optional parameters and advanced filter functions to be able to do what you want in more than one way.

Firstly, I'll say that what I understand to be your need gies beyond what a plain vanilla (paper-based) GTD system would give you. In GTD, you write down youir projects and then you write down only your next actions for thise projects - ie all the tasks you write down are next actions and apoear on your lists, but the lists are kept short by splitting into contexts and only recording your next actions. You're then supposed to review your projects regularly, to identify the next, next actions.

You (and I) want to plan ahead, though, writing down the subsequent actions and then filtering them out until you're ready to do them. You say that the next actions could be three or four of the tasks in each project. Without having a formula for which of the tasks these are, though, it's going to HAVE to involve a manual process to identify them. So, the key is to find the quickest, most efficient way of doing this, on a regular basis:

Personally, I never use the option to "complete subtasks in sequence". That has the limitations you've already identidfied. So, options in MLO for tagging the next actions include:
• Setting the start date to some time in the future - though this takes a bit of typing for each task (or each group of tasks if you're on the desktop and select multiple tasks to edit their dates at the same time). Also it needs manual input whenever project dates change (which happens a lot, with my poor skills at time estimating); in fact, GTD discourages you from setting dates where you don't have to, simply because we all tend to be over-optimistic with dates, the tasks then tend to back up and you can end up overwhelmed with overdue tasks.
• Using a context (I have a context called @pending, but I've found that doesn't work well for me);
• Using flags - though these are only available to set on the desktop version of MLO;
• Using STAR to mark all the actions you're ready to focus on - My favourite option. Unless you're using the STAR for something else, this is the quickest parameter to use, on both the mobile and desktop platforms. Ther's a hotkey for it on the desktop and you can select multiple tasks and toggle the star on them together.

So, I'd recommend trying out that last methodology, to see if it works fo you, too.

Remember, though, MLO doesn't offer much automation of task status (eg you can't choose to have contexts replace each other, project status isn't automatically updated by completing all the tasks in you project, etc) - There's no way of automating your way out of doing a weekly review to identify your next actions.

Hope I haven't misunderstood your need and that this is relevant and helpful.
Stéphane

[John Smith]

>>>
MLO already shows the *active* actions, i.e. those that it thinks *are* actionable (e.g. no start date or start date passed, context not closed). How do you distinguish between "actionable" and "genuinely actionable"? There must be criteria.

>>>

Sorry I'm obviously not being clear enough. 

The central point with GTD is that because our lives are all so complex and also because things shift around so much, it just takes too long to ever hope to enter enough data for any automatic system to be actually be able to tell you or me exactly what to do next.
For this reason, in GTD we need to do quite a lot of intuitive / common sense prioritising, but that this works best when one has frequently eye-balled the lists of stuff to do.  

[Aside: In fact to emphasise this point, as a relative GTD new users, on the GettingThingsDone.com forum I am getting a certain amount of heat from more than one user for using any kind of digital system rather than just using paper!]

So, bearing this in mind you have to understand that in our fast-moving lives - certainly in mine - there simply is not time to put enough information into the data AND to keep it sufficiently up-to-date for MLO be able to tell us what to do next.

So what MLO thinks are "active" may or may well not be fully active.

For example some actions would be *best* done after certain other actions, however the benefit in doing this may not be huge. [And before you ask, no, I dont have time to pedantically enter this as a formal "Dependency" - that would take far too long and moreover very often the dependency is not necessarily a binary thing in any case.]

And of course other actions may well be 100% independent of each other.

Moreover certain actions are only "nice-to-haves"... and not actual requirements.

For example let me create a fictional example to illustrates the point.

Project: Clean up my sitting room (in time for VIP mother-in-law visit!)

Actions:
1. Buy some new/ better brand of vacuum cleaner bags

2. Replace the vacuum cleaner's bag (which is not working as well as it used to)

3. Water plants [rapidly becoming urgent]

4. Sprinkle carpet-cleaning (anti-dust-mite) powder on carpet

5. Wait 10 to 20 minutes

6. Dust the high areas of room (pictures, light, shelves etc) [not crucial unless 4. has been done]

7. Vacuum clean the carpet [absolutely crucial]

8. Clean windows [important too]

Let me explain: 

The only really imporant thing that I'm hoping to do are the bold things (3., 7. and 8.) which I need to do at the very least.

However the only absolutely crucial thing is "7." (vacuum cleaning the carpet) because it's a total mess!

And doing  "3." (Water the plants) and "8." (Clean the windows) can start at any time during the preceding week.

Now it's not essential, but if time permits, then when I'm next on my @Errands, I might be able to do "1." and buy some new/better vacuum cleaner bags.  And IF I have managed to do "1.", then I may as well do "2." and replace the vacuum cleaner's bag.

But if I have LOTS of time I could do a really good job and also "5." sprinking on powder and if I have LOTS AND LOTS of time I could  even do "6." wait the full 20 minutes to allow it to kill the dust mites.

But wait, if I run out of time, then I can just go ahead and do "7." without doing 1. 2. 4. 5. or even 6. and I could go ahead and vacuum clean the carpet using the existing bag. It's a bit horrible and I fear rather smells of dog... So not ideal, but much better than doing nothing for my VIP visitor!

So in MLO, if I just use "Next Actions" view (or have the project to be set at "Complete Subtasks in order"), then all that will be visible in MLO would be the low priority thing "1." ==> Disaster because I only see something low priority!

BUT if I use "Active Actions" view then I am over whelmed with 8 seeing all items at once! (Note that this would be many more and much worse for a larger project obviously.)

So what I want is: 

- for 1. to be visible as my MLO Next Action (even though it is low priority)

- for 3. and 7. and 8. to always be visible (because they are both important and are not dependant on each other)

And for completeness:

- for 2. to appear after I complete 1. 

- And for 4. 5. and 6. to appear in sequence after I have completed 2.

So how I suggest we could like to achieve this would be to use the "Next Actions" view but to make 3. 7. and 8. to be "Forced Next" actions.

Does that make sense?

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[Dwight Arthur]

Hi, John.

 

I _think_ that I understand what you are after. You want a single report that shows the next actions per project, selected according to the algorithm that everyone uses and understands for next action selection, *and also* certain other tasks that do not at this moment meet the criteria for next action but that  you personally know can and should be done right away.

 

In other words, you want a report something like ((IsNextAction) OR (IsStarred)). MLO can’t do that because Next Action is defined only as an Action filter, not an advanced filter. I’m pretty sure that there’s no current way of writing an advanced filters that will select Next Actions. You can select Next Actions in the Action filter but this means that no task will ever be included in the view unless it is a Next Action. There’s no current way to create a view that shows Next Actions and also anything that’s not a Next Action.

 

So, John, I think that one solution to your request would be to create an Advanced Filter called IsNextAction. This would allow you, for example, to create a flag called “ForcedNextAction”, assign a hotkey to this flag, and create a view that shows any task which is a next action or which has the flag set.  Or you could use a special context, or the star, or maybe something else. I would not be an advocate for your proposal to create a forced next action as it seems to make MLO just a little bit more complex and hard to learn while nobody but you seems to be particularly asking for it. On the other hand, allowing an advanced filter for “Next Action” seems to me a little less complex to explain and it’s less locked in to your personal way of implementing GTD.

 

In the event that you request this change, and it’s accepted, it’s still going to be at least a number of months before you have the changed code to play with. So I think that you should consider workarounds. What I do in similar circumstances is to make a split screen with two different views on display – for example one is next actions and the other is starred tasks.

-Dwight

[Christoph Zwerschke]

Am 11.01.2015 um 01:14 schrieb John Smith:
> So how I suggest we could like to achieve this would be to use the "Next
> Actions" view but to make 3. 7. and 8. to be "Forced Next" actions.
>
> Does that make sense?

Yes, but what I'm trying to say is that MLO already has enough
properties to mark such important actions. In your view, you could just
sort by computed score in the view, and then your important and/or
urgent tasks would appear at the top automatically. I don't see how
marking a task as important or urgent (above 100) or setting a goal of
"week" or "month" is more difficult than ticking a "forced next"
checkbox. Even a due date of today can be set with a single click. It
would also give you more and dynamic information than a binary property.
For instance, the "water plants" task would automatically bubble up in
the list once the due date passed.

But as Dwight explained, you could also use a flag for your "Forced
Next" actions. You could copy the "Next Actions" view, change "show
actions" from "Next actions" to "Active" and add a filter for that flag.
MLO is pretty flexible. Instead of adding new concepts and properties,
you should reuse what's already there. You could also use the "star",
but most people use it already to mark tasks scheduled for "today" (as
there is only a goal for the week, not for today).

The "computed score" ordering is pretty helpful in showing the relevant
actions first. My only complaint about it I have explained here:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mylifeorganized/MF8vWAESh88

-- Christoph

[John Smith]

Dwight

Yes you understand my requirement precisely.

To recap - the thinking behind my suggestion is that Next Action is pretty useful pretty often, but that it sometimes (in fact quite often) is too rigid.

However I don't quite understand what you are saying. Yes I am happy to use a dedicated MLO Flag for this purpose, (or a special dedicated context), but if I understand you correctly are you saying that I would need to submit a formal request to allow Advanced Filters to detect Next Actions (and that this would take many months to be execute by the MLO team) ?

If so this is a huge disappointment. 


Hi, John.

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[John Smith]

> But as Dwight explained, you could also use a flag for your "Forced Next" actions. You could copy 

> the "Next Actions" view, change "show actions" from "Next actions" to "Active" and add a filter for that flag.

My understanding is that Dwight was not saying quite that. The problem is that if you set the view to Active then all the Active actions will appear - not just the Next Actions. If I add a filter for a flag (or Context) that is being used to signify (in effect) "Forced Next" action then ONLY those flagged items will appear in the view because (if I understand Dwight correctly) there is currently no way for Advanced filters to detect the fact that an Action is indeed a Next Action.

I agree that MLO is already (insanely) complex to most mainstream users and that adding additional functionality is quite likely to further confuse the new user. However it seems to me that MLO keeping things simple for the benefit of mainstream users is a battle that MLO lost a long time ago. [**]

Anyhow in effect, for now, I am screwed. 

My options going forward are

a) to request a Forced Next field  [but this would add complexity to the UI and no one is backing me so far on this!]

b) to request a new Advance Filter for IsNextAction [unlikely to happen for many months]

Is anyone with me on any of this? (!)

Can any of you see any merit in having some (albeit hidden) way of creating Forced Next functionality?

J

P.S. ** On a related note it keeps occurring to me that there may well be a serious commercial opportunity for someone to design at least one (in fact probably several completely different but) greatly simplified implementations of the MLO 'platform' to create nice, easy-to-learn "to-do list management" or  "productivity systems" that the mainstream user would have some hope of tolerating. These would come pre-populated with sensible formatting rules and advanced filter and locked work areas etc etc.

In fact if I ran MLO I would add some sort of functionality (e.g. say a button) whereby the user can choose which level of complexity they feel are ready to see. e.g. "Novice - Intermediate - Advanced" and I would hide the more advanced features from the less advanced level of user.  

-- Christoph

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[Dwight Arthur]

John, I think that you should seriously consider my suggestion to use a split screen with a next actions view in one side and tasks with your custom flag in the other side.

-Dwight

ps nobody can predict how long it will take MLO developers to release an update containing a change you have suggested. I'm just saying that it's long enough that you need a plan for how you will get your work done in the interim. -d

[John Smith]

Dwight - Please can you explain how to a split screen like that? 

Is this something that has to be done at the Windows level - e.g. with two different instances of MLO running?

Is it something that I will have to set up each time I open MLO?

(Aside: Powerful tho it indisputably is, I am getting increasingly frustrated by the time required to set things up in MLO!)

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[Dwight Arthur]

How to set up a split screen in five easy keystrokes:

Preparation: make sure that you have two tabs set up with the two views you want to use. Be sure that these two tabs are next to each other. Also, because screen space gets precious when running split screen, make sure that there's nothing in your window other than the outline. If the view list or view properties are showing, hit <alt><f1> to hide it, if task properties or expanded task notes are showing hit <alt><f2> to hide it. Open the first (leftmost) tab. OK, ready? Go!

1. <f3> to create a helper screen showing the same (first) view.

2. <Windows><left arrow> to move the helper screen to the left half of your display

3. <alt><tab> to switch back to the main screen

4. <ctrl><tab> to bring up the other (next) view

5. <Windows><right arrow> to move the main screen to the right half of your display

done.

I'm not a user of AHK but if you find these five keystrokes to be burdensome I've no doubt that you could use AHK to reduce it to a single keystroke.

-Dwight

[Steve Kunkel]

This sounds like the same topic as a posted yesterday

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mylifeorganized/q72R-R5RR7I

MLO have several different option for this, which is nice.  Seems like it would be good if your could "group" several sibling tasks, then have the items of each group fed to the NA list one at a time...  (Maybe?)