Moving on from MLO

[petro]

Hi Andrey,

First, I want to say that I've been a long time user of MLO, with a
database of about 1000+ items, and participated in the Windows and
iPhone beta programs in the past, and have been happy with the Windows
app. I'm not leaving MLO in anger, but out of time spent trying to use
MLO on a Mac.

I'm giving you feedback, take it or leave it. I'm aware that the Mac
market may not have been financially viable in the past, and that I'm
a minority user base. I've moved on because I spent a majority of my
time in MLO using the Windows desktop app, which is very cumbersome to
run in MacOS. Solutions such as Parallels or VMware are a large burden
in CPU/battery to run Windows in a virtual environment just for one
app. And Crossover/WINE on the Mac just wasn't cutting it. Not only is
WINE a bit awkward for things like app switching, cutting and pasting,
but it also just doesn't work any more with the latest release of MLO
with international character support. That lack of a chance to upgrade
forced me to either 1) stay on an older MLO release, 2) use Parallels/
VMware, or 3) look for another solution.

After testing Things and OmniFocus on the Mac, I settled on OmniFocus.
It does most of what MLO does, it's got a clean UI, it's Mac-native of
course, and it integrates very well with the MacOS and iPhone/iPad
environments. It was an expensive move, at $80 + $20 for the iPhone
app, and migrating data was a pain, but I have to say I'm glad I did.

Some feedback from my move:
- Don't ignore the desktop UI. It's gotten cumbersome. It's hard to
move around using just the keyboard and quickly adding / managing
tasks. Take a look at other UIs to see how things can be cleaned up
and streamlined.
- Present a clear roadmap / bug system / enhancement request system.
People may not like the choices of what gets developed and when, but
making things clear and open go a long way towards wondering if it's
time to deal with a problem or move on. At least you would know where
you stand.
- The iPhone app was mostly useful for viewing only. I could never be
bothered to enter data in. Maybe Siri could help with that in the
future...
- MacOS support would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath for that
one :)
- If you really want to do something slick, some other task management
apps have nice email rule integrations, to take emails with matching
keywords, and have them processed by their app. This has allowed me in
a few clicks to be able to use the new iPhone Siri feature to create
tasks. I just say "Email Omni Focus" and voila, tasks gets created!

I'm glad to see you working full time now on MLO, and a larger
development team has been good to see the iPhone and iPad apps coming
out. It's also nice to see you more responsive to the user community.
I wish you all the best of luck.

[JohnP]

On Oct 27, 1:26 pm, petro <p...@petecrocker.com> wrote:
> - MacOS support would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath for that
> one :)
> - If you really want to do something slick, some other task management
> apps have nice email rule integrations, to take emails with matching
> keywords, and have them processed by their app.

+1 for email RTE to MLO Cloud
+1 for MAC OS app with lovely UI

[Nuzenn]

I am very close to making the same decision. I am a huge MLO fan, but
it just doesn't work that great with my MacBook (and there is no shot
I am going back to Windows). I have asked a bunch of times about a
native OSX MLO; but my questions always get ignored. I would stay
around even if I knew a native OSX was at least coming in the future.
I guess I will take a look at Things or Omnifocus, but I would love to
stay.

[daniel sekera]

I wish mlo worked perfectly with every conceivable operating system because then more people would use MLO and then there would be even more development

however since there there is a limited budget to spend on r&d and then whatever is spent is expected to produce return on investment i just don't see it.

http://osxdaily.com/2011/03/18/mac-market-share-around-the-world-usa-15-canada-14-australia-14-and-more/

i'm not sure how many players are in this task manager software market but take potential number of task manager software purchases and then take 14% of that and then divide that by the number of software makers in the segment that you could compete against and well i just don't think it is worthwhile 

lol it also brings up the debate i have with my son all the time (he's a mac person)  i start by telling him there is NOTHING he can do with a mac that i cannot do with a pc, i can customize my pc endlessly and produce more performance for less money, and if macs and apple and the people that use them are so much better at the computing game than everyone else how come they cannot figure out how to make their own system run any windows program flawlessly. 

I know it's a thread hijack and misses the point but i could not help but throw that one out there......it's ok i really am live and let live i just like to prod him and others once in a while...haha it's all in good fun

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[pottster]

You're right, developing for OSX would be a waste of time and money. OSX is dead in the water. Apple are now a hardware and mobile OS company. That's where the money is for them. Not my opinion, the opinion of the late Steve Jobs.

[Rob]

To all who are considering switching away from MLO because of Mac
issues: OmniFocus seems to be the de-facto gold standard for GTD tools
for the Apple ecosystem. Above all else, it is one of very few
products endorsed by the David Allen Company. If I was an Apple fan, I
wouldn't have even looked at MLO--I would have just gotten OmniFocus
like my Apple-loving comrades have already done.

That said, as an Android user, it's been a nightmare trying to find a
GTD app that actually follows Allen's prescription and has either PC
or webapp sync for use on Windows. So far MLO and Shuffle stand out as
the only Android apps that seem to have been written by people who had
already read GTD, but there still seem to be a few details or polish
items lacking here and there.

[Nuzenn]

I find it hard to believe Steve Jobs ever thought OSX was a waste of
time and money

[Nuzenn]

"it also brings up the debate i have with my son all the time (he's a
mac person)  i start by telling him there is NOTHING he can do with a

mac that i cannot do with a pc".......How about not running an
antivirus program for many years and not worrying.

On Oct 28, 6:43 pm, daniel sekera <dwsek...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I wish mlo worked perfectly with every conceivable operating
> system because then more people would use MLO and then there would be even
> more development
>
> however since there there is a limited budget to spend on r&d and then
> whatever is spent is expected to produce return on investment i just don't

> see it.http://osxdaily.com/2011/03/18/mac-market-share-around-the-world-usa-...

[daniel sekera]

no need to write a virus for a market comprised of 14 % of the users and 97 percent of that 14% just listen to music, play games, and make pretty pictures with photoshop....

[Nuzenn]

1997...."no need to write a virus for a market comprised of 2%"
2001...."no need to write a virus for a market comprised of 6%"
2005...."no need to write a virus for a market comprised of 9%"
2008...."no need to write a virus for a market comprised of 11%"
2011...."no need to write a virus for a market comprised of 14%"

[Holmes245]

In any case, it's hard to please all people 100% of the time. The fact is, today, if I were to develop a program to do a certain thing, everyone would expect me to develop it for every platform which means that I would not be programming one but several programs doing the same thing. It's not just MLO desktop anymore, it's MLO this and MLO that, etc. etc that people expect Andrey to develop. This isn't a complaint against Andrey at all as I think MLO is the best program that I've seen for Windows so far. Every desktop/online version of a task/project management program seems to struggle with the ability to program with the folders/tree structure except for MLO so I'm glad I have available what I have. 

[pottster]

I fear the irony of an Apple fanboy on a Windows application forum may be lost on you. Re: Steve Jobs, nobody said he regretted OSX in the past just that for apple it has no/limited future - I refer you to amongst other things his "PC is dead" comment (and no, he wasn't talking WinTel he was talking form factor which includes Apple desktops). The "market growth" you cite would be a case in another industry for withdrawal over that length of time. Apple's profit from OSX has been, and still is, marginal. Finally, I would be interested to know how many OSX users are running Windows emulation software. I already know how many Windows users are running OSX emulation software. The real battle is Cloud v Desktop, MS v Apple is ancient history. Let that be and end to it ;-)

[Nuzenn]

I don't expect him to develop for every platform; I asked if he would
consider developing for the platform I use. For some reason, people
seem to feel the need to attack me because of this. I don't expect
anything from Andrey over this, I was just asking. If the answer is
"no", then so be it. It is quit amazing that Andrey has so many
people thinking they can speak for him here though. I guess for now
on I will send him an email directly.

[Nuzenn]

Ah, this is the part where I get attacked as an "Apple Fanboy" because
I happen to disagree with you. I am a Windows user also and a
customer of MLO. I believe that gives me just as much of a right to
post here as you. I guess for now on I will have to run all my posts
through you first for approval. I am done with this
conversation.....you can have the last word.

[pottster]

Nobody was attacking you, just taking a contrary position. It's not the same thing. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion. The main objection I have is when people post thinly veiled threats i.e. "do what I want or I will stop using MLO". Nobody is claiming to speak for Andrey but the fact remains that the guy is over committed at the moment and taking on yet another and (marginal) development platform doesn't make sense commercially nor would it benefit the vast majority of the existing user base. Windows desktop development is a far more pressing case. I would suggest substituting a bit of realism for your paranoia.

On Sunday, 30 October 2011 13:39:20 UTC, Nuzenn wrote:

Ah, this is the part where I get attacked as an "Apple Fanboy" because
I happen to disagree with you.  I am a Windows user also and a
customer of MLO.  I believe that gives me just as much of a right to
post here as you.  I guess for now on I will have to run all my posts
through you first for approval.  I am done with this
conversation.....you can have the last word.

[40-02]

My big plus for this topic. 

First of all - Android MLO app is much more functional than iOs version, thats the biggest reason why I use unusable HTC Sensation with MLO on board.

The second thing - I'd love to have MLO running on my Mac. I found this topic by searching why i can't run MLO under crossover.  

[JT]

Forgot the link in my just-now-posted message:

http://www.gqueues.com/GTD

[JT]

Hi,

I came in to unsubscribe from this group, and saw this thread :)

I tried to use MLO last week. I am a Mac person. I tried it via
Crossover. It failed miserably (an older 3.5 version worked ok).

That's not really what I want to post about, after a couple of days of
screwing around, I dropped that. What I want to address is this:

On Oct 29, 3:48 am, Rob <rcz...@gmail.com> wrote:

> That said, as an Android user, it's been a nightmare trying to find a
> GTD app that actually follows Allen's prescription and has either PC
> or webapp sync for use on Windows. So far MLO and Shuffle stand out as
> the only Android apps that seem to have been written by people who had
> already read GTD, but there still seem to be a few details or polish
> items lacking here and there.

Funny, I thought I was having a problem because I have the combination
Mac/Android. That's really tough because most of the people who make
Mac apps just assume that all their users will have an iPhone, aren't
apple people 100% apple people?

At the moment I'm in the two week trial of a pro edition of GQueues.
It's not 100% perfect for me, but it's workable in a way that Toodledo
was not ... problem with Toodledo is that you could not re-order
tasks, so in order to get some sort of order in long lists, I wound up
adding due dates that were not really due dates.

GQueues is a web app so supports all platforms. I don't think you can
use it in "offline" mode on your laptop, but there is an HTML5 version
that runs on all modern smartphones. The assumption is that you'll
use the phone to enter tasks and to see what you need to do and to
complete the tasks, all the reviewing/ prioritization you'll be doing
on a connected "real" computer like a laptop or desktop machine. If
that model works for you, you might try it. The mobile version runs
fine on my HTC Desire. See here

for an example of how you can do GTD with GQueues. I've expanded on
their example by adding "Tickler" and "Periodic Stuff" (like
remembering to descale the coffee machine every three months) to the
"General" category. Also I have "Project List" containing only my
truly active projects, in the "Someday/Maybe" category I have queues
for "Work Projects" and "Home Projects" that I have not actually
started yet.

HTH

JT

[Eagle Wang]

I am  making the same decision.

I like MACOSX more.