Prioritizing Items ToDo Today - Suggestions Wanted

[s2sailor]

I thoroughly enjoy MLO. It is an important tool in my day-to-day work
and personal life, yet I struggle with how to setup a view to
prioritize and focus on just the items I want or need to do today. I
have my couple of hundred items that need tracking entered with due
dates entered where appropriate, then I have an active items view
sorted by due date, so my usual daily drill is to review this sorted
list and also the items in my inbox and then decide what to work on.
I'm looking for a better method and am wondering how others handle
this.

It almost seems to me that MLO needs a separate Today tag which can be
used in addition to due date. I may have a task due in a week but
want to work on it today. With a Today tag, I would still do my daily
scan but then tag the items I want to focus on today and then have a
separate Today only view. Ideally it would be useful to be able to
manually arrange the order of the items in the Today view. This would
provide a very limited ordered subset of items that allow me to focus
on just what I want to do today. Maybe I overlooking something and
that function is already there, but I'm real curious as to how others
handle this.

Thanks,
John

[Swifty]

John,

A lot of people use the Weekly goal radio button as a hack for exactly
this type of sorting. You can simply set "This task is a goal for" and
select Week and these items will then become your daily to-do list.

Personally I've created a nice filter that sorts everything by Due
Date but filters out anything with a Start Date in the future so
that's it's easy to get a Today view. The new feature of tagging a
Start Date with no Due Date also adds these tasks to my view in a
separate bucket which I find useful.

[chuckdevee]

If I understand you correctly, MLO functionality should be able to put
in place what you're looking for.
Create a category - perhaps call it 'Today', then give it a hot-key -
perhaps 'Ctrl \'.
In your main ToList of active tasks, amend the rules to exclude tasks
with context 'Today'.
Then create another ToDo list to only include tasks with this context
- give it a hot key, eg Ctrl 2 (and maybe your main ToDo list Ctrl 1).

In this setup, you can look down your main ToDo list and select items
with 'Ctrl \' to toggle tasks between your main task list and your
Today list, then you can flick between your these ToDO lists by using
Ctrl 1 and 2.

MLO doesn't have a manual sort (yet), of course, but you could perhaps
manually sort the items in your Today view by using the Effort slider
(ie sorting by this).

[s2sailor]

Thanks for the responses. I had initially considered setting a today
context, and realize that it would work, but creating this seemed
contrary to how I have been using contexts so decided against it. I
also had looked at the goat setting and originally thought that
setting a weekly goal was changing my due date setting but on re-
inspection I realized that is not happening and I can use the weekly
goal as a work around for my purposes. I have gone back and searched
the forum and see there have been numerous entries on this subject,
including recent ones on todo manual sorting. I look forward to
seeing how Andrey implements this feature and also hope that a "today"
goal will be added.

[MLOSus]

+1

[Eberhard]

+1 for the Today Goal

> > goal will be added.- Zitierten Text ausblenden -
>
> - Zitierten Text anzeigen -

[da...@solsem.com]

+1 on both the today goal *and* manual sorting

[Jon R]

+1 also for the Today Goal. I am always surprised this has not been
added sooner as I hear it requested so often.. but I suppose there
must be a good reason.

For recurring tasks under Advanced options, I would like a tickbox to
remove any goal on recurrence please!

Thanks :)

[TimV]

+1 for today goal
+1 for manual sorting

[Richard Collings]

I feel sure I have voted on this in the past but just in case
+1 Today Goal
+1 Manual Sorting

[s2sailor]

I realize that adding manual sorting is difficult and will take time
to implement, but (and in my admitted ignorance of the programming
details) I would think adding a Today goal would be pretty straight
forward and hopefully something that could be added soon.

[Derek D]

+1 for today goal
+1 for manual sorting

[mikemac]

John,

I look at the problem from what I think is the GTD (Getting Things
Done) approach; I suggest reading thru the book and seeing if the
approach is right for you, or if there are things you can take away
from it.

The software is great for implementing the GTD system, but the
software doesn't do the all the work for you. GTD gives you a
systematic approach to organizing ideas and tasks, then MLO helps you
implement the system. I have hundreds of things in the MLO software,
but with a GTD approach I put them in different categories. Some I
don't need to think about until a specific date in the future; a start
date takes care of keeping them off the list until I need to see
them. And many of them are not yet active tasks, meaning something
I'm actively working on and expect to complete. For example of the 2
situations, take something like "paint the garage door". In the 1st
category, I need to paint in this spring when rains stop; I put a
start date of late April and a due date sometime in May. I don't see
it again until I'm ready to do something about it. Maybe it just
needs to be done "someday". In GTD you set up a set of stuff that
goes under a "Someday/Maybe"list that you regularly review. You read
it regularly (I have someday lists I review weekly, others monthly)
and one day you read it and realize you need to get it done this
month; now it moves from the someday list to an active item.

What I've found to be the advantage of this approach is that it lets
me focus on what I'm really planning to get done. I have a system
that gives me assurance I won't forget things I want to do eventually
or that I'll start working on sometime in the future, but doesn't
clutter the view by showing me everything. What I've found, and what
others I've talked to using GTD have found, is that initially you set
up the system and still have dozens of things in the "active"
category. Gradually the realization sinks in that they're not really
all active; sure you'd LIKE to be getting them all done, but
realistically you're simply not capable of doing them all. More and
more shift into someday categories as your experience allows you to
refine your estimates of what you really can get done. Your judgement
as you review your someday lists then comes into play; while it would
be nice to get them all done, you are forced to prioritize and
schedule the things you really want/need to accomplish.

The upshot of the GTD approach is you end up with a limited list of
the stuff you're really working on now; the thinking about priorities
has already been done and now you look thru the list of current
actions and pick the one that is most appropriate for your time
available, energy level, etc.

[Toes_NZ]

Hello

I would really like manual prioritising, It's the one feature of Time
& Chaos that a really liked the most [i used it for several years].
The way MLO currently sorts priorities just does not work for me at
all [i have had a good try at trying to make it work].

My quick and dirty fix is a context that sits at the top **DIT**,
these are the items i just do not want to forget about doing.

I believe that andrey has plans to make the goals tags user defined,
so you can change the name of the tag to what ever you wish.

Cheers
Steve

[Oleg L]

Hello

As far as I understand - the goal is not just tag used for grouping
similar items - it also influences priorities (i.e. order in which
your tasks are sorded in TODO list).
It means that tasks assigned to week goal will appear at the top of
the list, assigned to month goal - below them and assigned to year
goal - at the bottom.

As to manual priorities - I don't really think it is good idea.

Just imagine: You have thousands of tasks in your MLO database - all
waiting for your attention. And some day you think "oh - it's good
idea to complete task1 today! - and assign it highest priority". But
for some reason - you can't complete it - and it stays until next day.
Next day - you may change your mind and prefer to complete task2 - so
you will constantly have to struggle all those old tasks.

You can find manual priorities in Outlook TODO - it doesn't work for
me. With MLO I change the way of choosing what to do - I influence it
indirectly - by assigning it start/due date, goal, putting it into
specific place in my outline. This is useful - because I can do it in
advance - plan my activities - and it's separate from the moment of
doing tasks. When the moment comes to do (I see my TODO list or get
reminder) - I don't have to think anymore - I can simply perform it.

With Respect,
Oleg

[Richard Collings]

> As to manual priorities - I don't really think it is good idea.
>
> Just imagine: You have thousands of tasks in your MLO
> database - all waiting for your attention. And some day you
> think "oh - it's good idea to complete task1 today! - and
> assign it highest priority". But for some reason - you can't
> complete it - and it stays until next day. Next day - you may
> change your mind and prefer to complete task2 - so you will
> constantly have to struggle all those old tasks.
>

An interesting point which has some truth but I think there is a simple
solution.

Like the previous correspondant I just can't make the MLO prioritisation
work for me at the detail level because the order in which I want to work on
things does vary by day (and by hour) - clients phone up and need things
doing urgently; I am feeling tired so I want to do some easy tasks;
somebody emails me to say they want to talk about x at 4:30 today but before
I can talk to them about x and I have to do w and z and so on. Trying to
order these activities in MLO at the moment in this way is impossible.

So my vision for the manual sorting is that one uses the broad MLO
priorisation tools to bring the most important tasks to the top of the list
for today but one can then drag them out of that list and put them in a
manual order that makes sense for today.

And then tomorrow, there is an option which says 'Clear manual list' which
just puts everything back into the natural MLO order.

That would be a great step forward.

The next step would be to have multiple manual lists so that one can sort a
set of tasks for a project into a sensible order for that project by
creating a manual list for that particular project and then using drag and
drop. A much better mechanism than trying to create dependencies.

And finally

> You can find manual priorities in Outlook TODO - it doesn't
> work for me. With MLO I change the way of choosing what to do
> - I influence it indirectly - by assigning it start/due date,
> goal, putting it into specific place in my outline.

Nooooo. Surely the whole point of having a tool like MLO is that you create
an Outline that makes sense to you eg typically into some form of work
breakdown structure and then **without disturbing the outline*** you switch
to a different flat view which allows you to put the tasks into an order
than makes sense. If you have to put the tasks into order in which you are
going to do them in the outline itself, then what is the point of the ToDo
view (and MLO). You can just use Word - put the tasks into an outline and
then just drag the tasks out of the outline into a list in the order in
which you want to do them.

Richard

[Philb]

I think you can tackle all this with the existing features in MLO.
Capture the time you think it takes to do the tasks. Have an
@Braindead category for those items to do when you are tired, like
filling your stapler as David Allen says. Use other contexts as
needed. Use the filtering to build a view that shows you things to do
when you only have 2 minutes or less. Use the Due dates. You can
have a filter to show you tasks that need to be done today. You also
have dependencies, to make one task appear before another. You also
have complete tasks in order - another way to control your todo list.
Does the task actually have to be at the top of the list for you to
work on it? At some point you have to make the decision what to do at
any given moment. No software is going to accomplish that for you.
MLO certainly gives you the tools to make a better decision though.

Worst comes to worst, you can always write down the top items you need
to focus on on a piece of paper. That way they will be right in front
of you all the time, which is far faster and more efficient than any
software could be when things are coming at you hot and heavy. Then
at the end of the day or when you next have breathing room for
processing time, get your outline up to date again.

[Richard Collings]

I would agree that you can do most of these things in MLO and indeed I do,
in order to manage my broad list But it all takes time and worse, thought,
and when it comes to the point of wanting to manage my task flow over the
next few hours it would be so much easier to be able to drag tasks into the
order in which I want to do them.

And as previously indicated, I have found it almost impossible to get MLO to
order things into an order that makes sense to me.

So I do indeed do what you suggest - namely create a list in EverNote of
what I want to do in order I want to do it - which is completely bonkers
(Brit word meaning totally stupid) as the tasks are sitting there in MLO -
stubbornly stuck in an order which does not make sense to me.

And finally, yes you are right that the tasks do not have to be in order -
but I find it helps enormously - spend some time thinking about what I want
to do for the day and then work through the list without needing to think
about it again. And again what's the point of having a bit of software that
could so easily do this and yet doesn't.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: myLifeO...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:myLifeO...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Philb
> Sent: 14 February 2009 4:28 a
> To: MyLifeOrganized
> Subject: [MLO] Re: Prioritizing Items ToDo Today - Suggestions Wanted
>
>
>

[s2sailor]

Wow, I never expected to see this much discussion on this topic.

I've read Allen's GTD book and "mostly" follow its principles, but I
think the bottom line here is that we each have our own preferred
subtleties in how we implement the system. One of the earlier
comments was that use of dates could be made to generate and provide
focus on todo today lists. I don't doubt this works for many. As
others have mentioned, I also make heavy use of rapid entry and many
new items get entered each day. I could take time and manipulate dates
for each, but for me the today goal tag (and subsequent filtering on
this tag) provides a very fast way to give "now" focus on the items
that must be done. I scan my items that have dates attached and I
scan the rapid entry inbox and can very quickly select what must be
done today.

I purposely keep this today goal list short so it can be quickly
scanned. I scan this list many times a day. New items get added and
priorities may change. A manual sort option would allow me to arrange
this list in the order needed. I would no longer have to spend time
scanning and processing the order of this list. I would just follow
it top down. I realize this is subtle but for me would save real time
and enhance focus on what needs to be done now. I've tried using the
importance and urgency slides but they just don't work for me.

Here's hoping that Andrey implements a few more options to allow us
each to work our tasks the way we feel is best :-)

[metroboy]

I completely agree!

I (mostly) follow GTD, but however disciplined I am in looking at only
Next Actions that can be done in the current context, there are always
"several" Next Actions that fit in that category. (actual number
could vary from 5 to 20 depending on the day). I could keep coming
and scanning that list over and over...but I am cursed with being
easily distracted, and with rethinking decisions that have already
been made. So every time I scan the list is a potential distraction,
and a rather difficult moment where I have to make a "What do I do
now?" decision all over again. Sometimes these little decisions are
difficult enough that I deflect myself away from the Today list...and
end up wasting time for 20 minutes or longer on a completely
irrelevant task that is psychologically "easier" to perform at that
juncture.

If I could manually re-order this list of 5 to 20 Next-Actions-in-
Current-Context, I could do this re-ordering ONCE during the day and
just work my way down the list...I would be much less tempted to
distract myself with something irrelevant. For a long while I've
tried to use the Importance and Urgency sliders to accomplish this re-
ordering, but I always end up feeling frustrated, because sometimes it
will be almost impossible to get a task to land exactly in the order I
want...and I also usually spend a few seconds cursing the lack of the
ability to manually reorder a Todo list in MLO! It would be fabulous
to have this ability.

Nick

[Richard Collings]

Hi Nick

An excellent post which I also agree with a 100%. Just picking out a couple
of points to emphasise:

>I could keep coming and scanning that
> list over and over...but I am cursed with being easily
> distracted, and with rethinking decisions that have already
> been made. So every time I scan the list is a potential
> distraction, and a rather difficult moment where I have to
> make a "What do I do now?" decision all over again.
> Sometimes these little decisions are difficult enough that I
> deflect myself away from the Today list...and end up wasting
> time for 20 minutes or longer on a completely irrelevant task
> that is psychologically "easier" to perform at that juncture.
>

This is exactly my experience. What I want is MLO to deliver tasks to me
in a order that have decided earlier in the day and to do so in a way that
avoids that 'What should I do next' moment that you describe so well (with
resulting prevarication/loss of momentum)

> If I could manually re-order this list of 5 to 20
> Next-Actions-in- Current-Context, I could do this re-ordering
> ONCE during the day and just work my way down the list...I
> would be much less tempted to distract myself with something
> irrelevant.

Yes, yes, yes!!

> For a long while I've tried to use the
> Importance and Urgency sliders to accomplish this re-
> ordering, but I always end up feeling frustrated, because
> sometimes it will be almost impossible to get a task to land
> exactly in the order I want...and I also usually spend a few
> seconds cursing the lack of the ability to manually reorder a
> Todo list in MLO! It would be fabulous to have this ability.

Glad its not just me. This is exactly my experience.

Richard

[Stephen]

Another enthusiastic +1 for the ability to flag items to do TODAY.
This is very important for perfectionists like me who tend to have too
many task items and get overwhelmed at seeing a long list. In the
morning I need to be able to pick a subset of items to do that day,
and right now that's difficult in MLO. A flagging feature like the
weekly goal would work great, although a general "flag" feature would
also work, as long as we can filter on it.

Stephen Weatherford

On Feb 15, 8:40 am, "Richard Collings" <r...@rcollings.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi Nick
>
> An excellent post which I also agree with a 100%.  Just picking out a couple
> of points to emphasise:
>
> >I could keep coming and scanning that
> > list over and over...but I am cursed with being easily
> > distracted, and with rethinking decisions that have already
> > been made.  So every time I scan the list is a potential
> > distraction, and a rather difficult moment where I have to
> > make a "What do I do now?" decision all over again.  
> > Sometimes these little decisions are difficult enough that I

> > deflect myself away from theTodaylist...and end up wasting

[mikemac]

On Mar 8, 8:57 pm, Stephen <ushlt-li...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Another enthusiastic +1 for the ability to flag items to do TODAY.

> A flagging feature like the
> weekly goal would work great, although a general "flag" feature would
> also work, as long as we can filter on it.
>

If that's what you want to do, I think the software supports it
already. Go to "Manage Contexts" and create a new context called
"today" (or maybe "TODAY"). Now when you go thru your list of items
simply add the context "today" to the items you want to do today.
Then on the "To-Do" tab create a filter to see only the tasks for the
context "today" and you're set.

[metroboy]

yes, finding some technique to flag items as "Today" is certainly
possible.

What's not currently possible in MLO (that I know of) is then *re-
ordering* these today items.

This morning is a busy day at work, and I currently have 14 items on
my Today list. On slow mornings, I can take the time to re-order this
list through the (extremely kludgy!) technique of jiggling the
Importance and Urgency slider. However, it is sometimes really
difficult to get the list in exactly the order I would like it. Today
is one of those days...and I don't really have the time to fiddle with
it. As a result, I have temporarily bailed from MLO for the morning,
and I have my top three to-do items scribbled on a pad by my desk.
(and yes, I plead Guilty to procrastinating by making this post!)

I think it's really kind of sad that a program as sophisticated as MLO
is rendered useless in the crunch like this by not having the ability
to manually re-order to-do lists. As always, I am actively scanning
the horizon for other programs that will let me accomplish my to-do
goals (Vitalist? Essential PIM Pro?). I'd love to stay with MLO
because of its elegant design and speed...but pretty soon the lack of
re-ordering is going to become a dealbreaker for me.

Nick

[Richard Collings]

(What Nick says)^2

But I guess that is no surprise!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: myLifeO...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:myLifeO...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of metroboy
> Sent: 10 March 2009 5:05 p
> To: MyLifeOrganized
> Subject: [MLO] Re: Prioritizing Items ToDo Today - Suggestions Wanted
>
>
>

[Steve Wynn]

Overall the target of MLO to my mind is not really systems that are heavily concerned with ordering of lists. The order is to an extent obtained more by the grouping of similar items - via things like context. The general idea being you create 'batches' of items that are related in some way.

I would say if order is important then prioritise on only one factor in MLO - Urgency. Forget importance because this throws too many different factors into the mix with regards to the priority algorithm. Only utilise urgency on tasks, not parent items - and remove the importance aspect altogether. Sort your list's based on Goal and then Urgency. That way by quickly flagging something as a weekly goal it will pop to the top of the list. By default have all tasks set to normal urgency. Then moving tasks is just a case of increasing/decreasing the urgency slider. Of course colour coding/formatting can also be utilised now to highlight specific items.

But I would question the use of ordering if a 'Today' list is in play. If you have a list of items you will do today, then why would ordering matter? Ordering only matters if you plan on not doing some of the items on your Today list. Which then I think it sort of negates, to my mind, having a 'Today' list in the first place.

Priority ordering as far as understand in GTD is a minor factor. Next action choice being determined by context, time, energy and then priority. I don't think the idea is to have ordered context based lists that you work top to bottom. Applying priority in that manner is in a way reducing the free-form aspect of GTD as a whole, to my mind.

I think Covey users have a case for more priority based ordering - although a lot can be achieved by the use of contexts. But an A1,A2, B1, B2 priority method would certainly help them I would imagine. That is if we have any users of Covey? But then their major grouping is really based on Roles which can be achieved via context.

Overall I don't think ordering by importance or urgency really works. Much better to my mind to have a list of items you 'will-do' today - no excuses. Then ordering gets thrown out of the window. But to complete that list of items you will probably have to adopt different methods of working, make sure the list is Closed and no new items unless same day urgent are added etc.

I would also consider if the order of a list is stopping you taking action then it might be another subtle form of procrastination. I would imagine you already really know what your priorities are for the day and don't really need an ordered list to keep you on track.

I recently adopted Autofocus (AF), after a few difficulties, this system has no order with regards to lists. But utilises a series of Closed Lists, which nullify the need for ordering altogether. But the system is hyper productive and you can process a large volume of tasks in a very short space of time. So I would be a little wary that applying too much order to lists, it might actually have the opposite effect and be counterproductive.

All the best

Steve

[metroboy]

Hi Steve,

I actually agree with most of what you say.

* I'm not really concerned at all with either "Importance" or
"Urgency".

* I don't rank items in my outline by either or these factors, as I
agree with you that they can become a (not-so-subtle) form of
procrastination.

* As I've mentioned before, I have a large outline of tasks, organized
by Project. I mark the Next Action in each Project (using the Weekly
Goal flag), and then I filter by context (e.g., @work). The result is
my Today list -- which could be anywhere from 5 to 15 items.

* Without interruptions, I could do all of these tasks in a day.
However, there are two factors that make me want to put this list in a
particular order:

1) I have mild ADHD, and I am easily distracted. Every time I have to
re-scan that list of 5 to 15 items for my next task, there's a risk
that I will careen off into thinking about my priorities for the day
all over again. To manage myself well, I really need to make this
decision ONCE for the day (subject to interruptions, see #2!), and get
on with the job of working my way down the task list one by one.

2) my job is (often and unpredictably) interrupt-driven. A supervisor
can add one, two, or five tasks in a single call or visit (and the
knock-on effect is that one, two or five OTHER tasks won't be able to
be completed today). Even if the supervisor doesn't add tasks, they
can instantly re-set my priorities for the day. When this happens, I
need to *instantly* reorder my list to reflect my new work reality.
This is the only circumstance where I ever even touch the "Importance"
or "Urgency" sliders. I use them as an (ugly) kludge to get my items
to move up or down the To-do list. As I've mentioned before, more
often than not I become frustrated with this process -- I can't get
the items to land where I want, or the controls are too twitchy. I
often give up and go to a paper list, leaving MLO aside until things
calm down again.

This frustrates me, as I want MLO to be a useful tool for me
*especially* in times of high stress when there are many moving parts
to my day.

I understand that people may organize their day in completely
different ways from mine. I understand that many people have complete
control over their day and can work on an uninterrupted basis (in fact
my part-time freelance job is like that). However, I don't think that
the way I am organizing my day -- or the way in which I would like to
use MLO -- is an unreasonable or an unusual one. I hew pretty closely
to GTD principles. I don't use any prioritization in order to arrive
at my "Today" list; it's mainly flaggin "Next Actions" in my active
Projects. But once I *do* determine my Today list for each day, it
helps my concentration a great deal if I am able to quickly shuffle
them into the "correct" order for the day -- based on my intuition and
my subtle understanding of my job. That's all that I'm asking for.

thanks for listening,

Nick


On Mar 11, 5:50 am, "Steve Wynn" <steve.w...@startupcomputer.com>
wrote:

[Steve Wynn]

Hi Nick,

Order does matter considerably with open lists - it all comes down to deciding what to leave as well as what to actually do. Which in essence I think is part of the problem with those types of lists.

The scenario you talk about I can quite easily get working with just urgency in MLO but I would have to utilise something else to flag the tasks for today. The Weekly Goal in itself is like a super-charge on priority - like having nitrous oxide in your car. While that is operating you will never be able to order very well at all with any of the sliders. You really would have to drop that as you method of selection for daily tasks. Even if a daily goal or something was added to MLO it would probably be a similar scenario.

If you can come up with an alternate method to select your daily tasks, then just utilising Urgency should work as you expect. For example every standard task by default has a medium/normal urgency. Move up the list - increase the urgency and down the list decrease the urgency. Supercharge to the top - add a Weekly Goal.

If you sort by Urgency in the list you also have other options of sorting as well, so you could sort by caption - prefix items with A-, B- is an option, or use symbols @!_+ etc. Or utilise the effort sliders as an extra option for order. But I would only implement extra options once the urgency order worked as you expect.

Now I have to be honest the simplest way to me to achieve a today grouping is utilising dates - which is a bit anti-GTD. But even with dates you have to consider they in themselves add priority with regards to the algorithm. So for ordering purposes you would need to adopt consistent usage if you decide to group by date. For example flag all tasks for today as start/due today. Then the urgency slider will work as desired. But if you have different start dates, then that will also be a factor in the ordering.

I would seriously consider looking at either Do It Tomorrow (DIT) or Autofocus (AF) because they both deal with Closed Lists. Which is like the principle you are adopting in a way with your today list, but the systems add more structure so that ordering is less of an issue. Definitely worth checking out - I would perhaps angle at DIT because it deals heavily with interruptions, dealing with a day's work in a day etc. Very good system.

Like I say with just urgency you should be able to order as expected but only once you remove the Weekly Goal as your daily selection.

All the best

Steve

----- Original message ----------------------------------------
From: metroboy <ranch...@gmail.com>
To: MyLifeOrganized <myLifeO...@googlegroups.com>
Received: 11/03/2009 18:58:32
Subject: [MLO] Re: Prioritizing Items ToDo Today - Suggestions Wanted

>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.10/1995 -
>Release Date: 03/11/09 08:28:00

[metroboy]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the tips. Do you think the Urgency slider will work if
*all* my items are flagged as Weekly Goals? (That's the only way that
items make the cut into my Today list currently.)

In any case, I will try using another flag (like an "@Today" context)
and see how just using the Urgency slider works.

I had the same problems with using dates that you mention, so I avoid
them where possible. However, I do have to use Start Dates
occasionally so that items don't appear on my list until they're
relevant. I'll see how re-ordering with the Urgency slider works in a
mixed list (some with Start Dates, some without.) -- will report back
and let you know.

Nick


On Mar 11, 2:36 pm, "Steve Wynn" <steve.w...@startupcomputer.com>
wrote:

[Steve Wynn]

Hi Nick,

If 'all' items that you want to sort are set to weekly goal, then utilising the urgency slider should work. But be careful about subtasks, if a parent has a weekly goal set or priority set the children inherit. So you would need to keep weekly goal at the task level. I would also look to keep priority as a whole at this level as well if you want to sort. Priority is sort of worked out on a cumulative score, top down.

All the best

Steve

----- Original message ----------------------------------------

From: metroboy <ranch...@gmail.com>
To: MyLifeOrganized <myLifeO...@googlegroups.com>

Received: 13/03/2009 16:13:02
Subject: [MLO] Re: Prioritizing Items ToDo Today - Suggestions Wanted



>Hi Steve,

>Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/1999 -
>Release Date: 03/13/09 05:59:00

[Richard Collings]

Another interpretation (from a more jaundiced view) of what Steve is saying
is that using Weekly Goal breaks the Computerised Scoring algorithm
(something I have moaned about in the past) because of the way in which it
recursively boosts the score of everything that is under the item to which
you have applied the weekly goal.

Ie: it boost score of the item, all the children of the item inherit that
boosted score (good) and then for some bizarre reason MLO applies the weekly
goal boost again on top of this (bad) which means that the children (and
their children) always end up getting much higher scores than other
activities in the work breakdown structure which happen to be higher in the
tree.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: myLifeO...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:myLifeO...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of metroboy

[metroboy]

Steve,

I've replaced Weekly Goals with an "@_Today" context for flagging
items to go onto my "Today" list. I've normalized all the Importance
and Urgency settings and...unfortunately using the Urgency slider
doesn't really work. I am getting a very similar behavior to what I
was previously: moving a task up or down with the slider is *very*
jerky. In some places it advances task-by-task (which is the behavior
I want) -- and in some places it advances over 5 or 6 other tasks in
one jump, and I can't place it in the middle of that task clump, no
matter how hard I try.

It's really crazy not to be able to directly drag-and-drop tasks to a
particular spot in the to-do list! I seriously think there needs to
be *three* settings in the To-Do Ordering Behavior dialog:
Hierarchical Score, Computerized Priority, and a new one: "Manual
Ordering". The task order achieved as a result of choosing "Manual"
should be persistent between sessions, so that I can come back to the
same order that I set up previously.

My observation from watching the past few years of MLO's development
is that a lot of work was put into rationalizing the Computed Score
Priority. This was partially motivated based on MLO's background as a
competitor to Life Balance, which was one of the first to-do programs
to automatically rank tasks in a "suggested" order. I think it's time
to gently move this part of MLO's DNA into the background. Life
Balance is no longer the dominant player in Task/To-Do programs, and
people come to MLO from a lot of different directions. I understand
that a lot of people are using the Computed Score Priority ranking in
their daily work, and that option should certainly be left in place
for them. But I bet there are a lot of people who would like something
different, and I'm definitely one of them.

Nick

[metroboy]

[Steve Wynn]

Hi Nick,

Most programs tend to group priorities in batches, A, B, C, 1, 2,3, High, Medium, Low. This is in effect what MLO does, so to achieve individual task order you would need to apply another factor once the priority groups have been established. So for example if you sort by urgency then by caption - items could be pre-fixed with a letter/number combination to display the exact correct order you wish. Possibly also effort could be utilised or min/max time etc. Or perhaps further subdivide with Morning, Afternoon, Evening contexts. I think you can achieve what you are after but it is not going to be easy and may require you to really think about your view definition and how you sort/group.

I think part of the problem may be that the computerised scoring method references a lookup table for speed. So that the CPU doesn't go ballistic calculating individual priorities on tasks - though this was also done to aid performance on the PPC as well. So in a way the exactness of the priority mechanism in MLO is somewhat of a tradeoff against performance. I suppose things could be exact - but then MLO speed might seriously suffer.

Ordering in the ToDo list is always going to be a little difficult, as MLO pulls the information in from various parts of the Outline based on context grouping. The only way I can see at the moment of getting a list with exact and specific order is to forget priority altogether and manually create the Today list with no sorting - in the Outline itself. But this would probably mean duplicating existing tasks if you are dealing with project items as well.

MLO in effect is not dealing with a single list with a ToDo list view which I think needs to be considered. It is for the most part pulling in multiple lists and placing the items into a single list in some type of order - usually defined by the view.

I think there probably is a case for a specific priority order - the only method I can see that would work easily in your scenario is A1, A2, A3, B1, B2, ..... , Y1,Y2,Z1,Z2 etc. I would imagine this could be achieved quite easily with another field added to MLO for custom priority - then computerised scoring etc switched off, and manual priority order established.

I suppose another option may to automatically number lists as they are generated in the ToDo list view - then have the ability to drag and drop. Not sure how easy that would be overall. Perhaps there is a way to create the ToDo list in another format which would allow manual ordering?

I may be wrong but for most people I don't think ordering on a task by task basis is a major concern. It is basically used as more of a guide than a specific sequence in which to do tasks. The common systems MLO addresses, GTD, DIT concern themselves mostly with grouping. Autofocus (AF) utilises ordered lists but simply ordered by creation date. Covey users may like an A1,A2 priority mechanism I suppose.

Personally I quite like the dynamic ordering in MLO - I think as a guide it can work very well. But in a way it is just a suggestion, as with any priority system/mechanism you still have to choose which task to action.

If exact ordering is required, then it might pay to look more at how the Outline is structured with the ToDo list views just acting as a representation of the existing order.

All the best

Steve

----- Original message ----------------------------------------

From: metroboy <ranch...@gmail.com>
To: MyLifeOrganized <myLifeO...@googlegroups.com>

Received: 14/03/2009 11:18:25
Subject: [MLO] Re: Prioritizing Items ToDo Today - Suggestions Wanted

>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

[Richard Collings]

Thanks for doing this, Nick. Your experience mirrors mine exactly with MLO.
MLO has consistently frustrated my attempts to order tasks precisely WHICH
IS WHAT I WANT (Sorry to use capital here but no attempts to persuade me
otherwise is going to succeed - for the reasons that you have succinctly
outlined in previous posts).

And as you indicate, Nick, I suspect there is a significant number of people
for whom this is a must have. What nobody can easily know (Andrey included)
is the proportion of people who look at/try out MLO and think "Hmmm -
interesting but I can't easily order tasks in an order that makes sense to
me" and move on (unless Andrey is doing any sort of abandonment survey of
those who download but then don't sign up). There is a real risk of just
listening to your existing customers that you end up with a product that
meets their needs really well but which does not have a broader appeal

(Aside: EverNote is an interesting example of this - they had an interesting
product which successful met the needs of fairly specialist audience; they
made some major changes in Version 3 which actually simplified it
considerably and, it seems, massively broadened its appeal. I was actually
one of the people in the specialist audience who was very happy with Version
2 and so for me Version 3 was a disaster, but I can understand why they did
it. What was interesting was that when the launched Version 3, most of the
posts in the forum were hostile to the new version. We had all been posting
making suggestions for making the product more sophisticated and complicated
and so were really shocked when the EverNote reversed direction completely
and went for a much more simplified product with a broader appeal.

Do wish that Andrey would make some sort of statement of intent on manual
ordering (there were a couple of postings which indicated that he was
looking at something). It feels to me that he has recently delivered a
round of major enhancements that a lot of people wanted to see but it is not
clear to me now where he is going next with the product.

My guess would be that there is a significant audience out there for a
'simplified' version of EverNote which just allows people to manually order
their tasks (as you suggest, Nick) but unfortunately this forum isn't the
place to ask as there are just a few of us from the 'manual ordering'
faction for whom MLO offers enough that we stick around with everybody else
being quite happy with the original scoring based approach.

Richard

> -----Original Message-----
> From: myLifeO...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:myLifeO...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of metroboy

> Sent: 14 March 2009 11:18 a
> To: MyLifeOrganized
> Subject: [MLO] Re: Prioritizing Items ToDo Today - Suggestions Wanted
>
>
>

[Richard Collings]

>
> If exact ordering is required, then it might pay to look more
> at how the Outline is structured with the ToDo list views
> just acting as a representation of the existing order.
>

In which case, why use MLO. You can just do this in Word or some other note
taking/outlining software. Which is what I actually do for my major tasks
of the day (in the same way as Nick). I primarily use MLO to track all the
little tasks.

The beauty of MLO is that you can have two views of your Outline - one
showing the tasks in some sort of Work Breakdown structure (ie grouped by
Project, Deliverable, etc) and then the To Do list which represents the
order in which you want to do the tasks. The problem is that for some of us
we can't get the To Do list into an order that makes sense to us.

Richard

[Steve Wynn]

The design of MLO is primarily concerned with grouping tasks of a similar nature either by priority, context or some other manner. It offers a suggested order based on these factors. If a specific order is required it can be achieved but it involves manual intervention - for example prefixing tasks with A1, A2, A3 etc. Or configuring the Outline to be based more around a single list, similar in a way to DIT and a daily task diary. Now there are also options to colour code which can be used to an extent for ordering.

Specific order can be achieved easily with a single list - but here for the most part we are dealing with multiple lists displayed as a single list. Information is being pulled through from the outline from various parts. Manual ordering in a way would mean having some sort of disconnected ToDo list view, that I would imagine would be very hard to sort and order through the various other means. So in other words I could imagine a manually ordered list, but group, sort, advanced options etc wouldn't work. Because for the most part these fields would have to be ignored for manual sorting to override the selected options.

Personally I think paying too much concern to list order limits your available options, you are sort of stating there is only a single starting point that being next task on the ordered list. Obviously order plays a significant part if you are dealing with a large list of items. But the general idea of MLO is to group items of a similar nature into manageable lists, grouped by a selected factor. So to that aim subdivision of lists into smaller and smaller groups, would be a way to obtain order. Then by applying specific priorities to those smaller lists you would be able to achieve a desired order.

Drag and drop ordering I don't think will work, though I may be wrong. Only because the ToDo list is a representation of the data within the Outline. So dragging and dropping, may impact on the Outline itself. Unless there is a way to create a disconnected view - but then that takes away the dynamic aspects of the ToDo list automatically updating when things are modified. Which may also be an issue if your data is not current and doesn't reflect changes immediately.

What I think might work is an A1, A2 priority mechanism (or a user defined custom priority) as a separate field, where only one task can be set as A1, A2, A3 etc. But the downside to that is you would have to set individual priorities on all tasks. Which could be a bit of a pain - but would always display the correct order.

A1, A2 priority may appeal to Covey users as well. So you could address people that require ordered lists and a specific working system.

All the best

Steve





----- Original message ----------------------------------------

From: "Richard Collings" <r...@rcollings.co.uk>
To: <myLifeO...@googlegroups.com>
Received: 15/03/2009 11:57:38
Subject: [MLO] Re: Prioritizing Items ToDo Today - Suggestions Wanted




>>

>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

>Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.13/2001 -
>Release Date: 03/14/09 06:54:00

[gggirl]

I want to echo the wish to have the option to directly drag and drop
to order the items.

I applaud the effort MLO has put into calculating the scores
automatically, but as we all know sometimes the easiest way is just to
do it manually. If there's an option allowing people choose to order
items by hand (dragging), I think that can satisfy many many people's
frustration on trying to tweak to get the order as they wish, not what
MLO tells them, isn't it?

I assume the algorithm would be assign each task an unique number by
their order. Whenever they're dragged all the related numbers are re-
assigned/ordered. Am I right?

I'm really hoping this feature would be added in. Then MLO will be
perfect for me!!

Thanks again for the already very good product!!

[metroboy]

Steve,

You are quite right that Covey's prioritization system (A1, A2, A3,
etc.) would require a lot of upkeep. That's why I've found it
completely inappropriate for the common GTD situation that I've been
describing here:

* my Next Actions are labeled inside each project in my Outline
* then these Next Actions are sorted by the appropriate context (e.g.,
@work)
* then some of these Next-Actions-in-appropriate-context are flagged
as "Today" items using Weekly Goal (this becomes my To-do or "Today"
list)

These 5 to 20 items that end up in my To-do list are what's on my
plate today. I need to change their order during the day (sometimes
repeatedly) as supervisors call, priorities change, and many other
reasons. I don't have the time to fiddle around with a lot of
settings, I want to be able to directly manipulate this list by drag-
and-drop.

I understand that it might be *difficult* to create a manually-ordered
To-Do list that doesn't affect the order of the main task Outline --
but I don't buy that it is *impossible*.

Things (on the Mac) does it.

Agenda At Once does it.

Vitalist does it (in the sense that you can manually reorder a list
that's sorted by priority or context or project, and the order is
persistent between sessions.)

Unfortunately, each of these programs has a fatal flaw that keeps me
from using it, which I won't get into here. I also happen to really
like MLO's speed, elegant and compact design, and the way it has
separate Outline and To-Do tabs. I guess that's why I keep
gravitating back to it, and hoping that Andrey can add this
functionality to it. It would be a very cool addition, and it sounds
like other people would like it as well!

Nick

[metroboy]

[Steve Wynn]

Hi Nick,

I don't think it is impossible to achieve a drag/drop ordering in the ToDo list, I just don't think it will be easy to implement. Though I may be wrong.

A Today list concept is fundamentally not really a part of GTD. GTD is based on selecting tasks to be done on a week by week basis, hence the weekly review. Then grouping those tasks by context. Now I understand why you and others might require specific ordering, but I think part of the problem is the system's that MLO addresses. Being heavily influenced by GTD it follows that approach to an extent, grouping more than ordering. Really part of the philosophy of GTD is to get away from an ordered approach - with next action choice being made and determined by various factors.

So I have to say ordered list's and GTD seem a little at odd's with each other. GTD wouldn't be my system of choice if I required an ordered list. Something like DIT would give me a Today list, that could quite easily be ordered. As it mainly deals with a single list. A single list can be maintained by adding tasks such as 'Work on Project A' then referencing other lists.

So I still think MLO can achieve what you desire as it stands, an ordered list, but unfortunately not if the system is based around GTD. Also not via a drag/drop method - though this could work in the Outline of course with a single list approach.

All the best

Steve

----- Original message ----------------------------------------

From: metroboy <ranch...@gmail.com>
To: MyLifeOrganized <myLifeO...@googlegroups.com>

Received: 16/03/2009 05:22:21
Subject: [MLO] Re: Prioritizing Items ToDo Today - Suggestions Wanted

>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

>Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.15/2003 -
>Release Date: 03/15/09 14:07:00

[Stephen]

> Personally I think paying too much concern to list order limits your

available options...

Well, that's nice, but... different people have different styles and
personalities. I'm too likely to make poor decisions if there are a
bunch of possibilities and I have constantly review what to do next.
I also tend to get paralyzed when I see a large list. I'm learning I
do better with a closed list for the day.

I love the way that MLO orders tasks in a "suggested priority", but I
only want to review that list once a week for weekly goals and once a
day for daily goals, and move selected tasks to a closed list. Then I
want a view where I can see only what I've decide to work on for today
(whether that's a "must do" or a "want to do" list is irrelevant). In
this mode, I want to be able to easily order tasks within that view
(but probably still be able to set priorities that affect the other
views, in case for instance I decide to remove an item from today but
still need to do it sometime this week).

So I think a separate field makes a lot of sense, plus a separate view
or mode where "manual ordering" takes place. I definitely do *not*
want to have to manually set "A1" etc, that would be so much of a pain
nobody would do it. Simple drag/drop or even "up/down" ordering is
sufficient. A/B/C is optional, but personally I think adding a "today
goal" like so many have suggested would be much better. These might
be things considered "have to do today" and the others are "try to do
today."

I don't want MLO to change to some simpler scheme, I just want to be
able to use the auto-priority system to guide me in making daily/
weekly decisions.
The manual ordering isn't so much about "I have to do these in this
order", but rather a way of prioritizing my time once rather than
having to make that decision multiple times in the day.

I currently use a context for personal/business today tasks, and it
sort of works, but having more control on ordering in that list, and
having a "today goal" would add a lot to this scenario.

Thx,
Stephen

[Stephen]

On Mar 16, 3:40 am, "Steve Wynn" <steve.w...@startupcomputer.com>
wrote:

> I don't think it is impossible to achieve a drag/drop ordering in the ToDo list, I just don't think it will be easy to implement. Though I may be wrong.

No, it would not be that hard to do. You just need to be able to
switch the ordering mode in a particular view between priority/urgency
and manual ordering. The manual ordering is kept in a different field
than priority/urgency. Those who want to use manual ordering just
turn on this option for their "today" view. Drag/drop to change
manual ordering would be enabled only when this option is turned on
(just like it is in the outline view). Those who want strict GID
don't turn it on.

I'm sure there are other ways this could be accomplished, although
this might be the easiest. Saying you can't have both is simply not
true - I want to have the outline for project organization, the
current To-Do list for seeing the current possibilities based on
priority/urgency, and then to move some of these to a today list where
I work from the rest of the day.
That way I select and prioritize once at the beginning of the day, and
possibility re-order as necessary. Kind of a mix between GTD and
DIT. I want to do this in MLO because it's the first software I've
found for tasks that I actually like, partly because of the
flexibility it already gives.

Stephen

[Nick.Clark]

How about an option to export the currently showing filtered todo list, preferably via the clipboard so that can be quickly pasted into anything else such as Word or Calendar and reordered there. Would be useful to create today's job list.

Nick

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Collings <r...@rcollings.co.uk>
Sent: 15 March 2009 11:57
To: myLifeO...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MLO] Re: Prioritizing Items ToDo Today - Suggestions Wanted



>

[Steve Wynn]

I am not trying to be pedantic but the principle of the Closed list is being somewhat lost. Operating a Closed list means once it is defined no new items are added, unless same day urgent and these get added under a line to distinguish them from the planned workload.

Order and priority/sequence are not a factor, that to an extent is one of the major points with regards to the Closed List concept. The list is self contained and the order you do things has no relevance or bearing. With a daily Closed List you aim to complete the items on the list each day - which is the whole reason order/priority are not a concern.

Order/priority is only a concern if you don't plan to clear the contents of the defined Closed List. Which sort of goes against the principle of the list, that being clearing the list is your objective for today.

Now overall if people want to order lists, fair enough. But for most of the system's MLO addresses order isn't a significant factor. Hence the reason it is not already part of the product - I suspect. When various systems or methods are mentioned that go against the feature being requested I sort of just see contradiction which prompts me to try and clarify things.

I think perhaps it is becoming increasingly more important to separate what is a 'system' related feature to what is an individual preference. If anything it will stop me weighing in on things !! So in other words GTD/DIT/AF/Covey operate in this way - we need this feature because MLO lacks something concerned with the system being addressed. Compared to 'I' operate in this way and I would like this feature.

I am not saying personal preference in any way should be devalued with regards to system requests. Just a distinction be made for clarity purposes.

Again these days I think any feature request could draw strength from looking beyond the initial idea. For example A1,A2 priority method would provide an ordered list and may suit Covey users, there is also Brian Tracy who talks of the virtues of A,B,C priority. The Now Habit by Dr Neil Fiore deals with focusing on 'A' priority projects. There is also a priority method with defined uses, A-Today, B-This Week, C-This Month. So although it would not be the preferred method of ordering it has virtues of appealing to perhaps a broader base, and perhaps with this type of order drag/drop would also be easier.

A 'Today' goal has been requested a number of times, though to me this isn't really what most people are after I don't think. What we are talking about in this instance is an easy way to flag items for today - so to an extent it would make more sense I think to have some type of flags which then have no bearing on priority. But could be filtered on within the ToDo list. A Today goal would somehow need to link into the priority algorithm to be effective and would require a super+super boost to jump to the top of a priority ordered list, if weekly goals existed. User defined filtered flags would seem to me to be a better option as they could work in conjunction with the established priority ordering. If they were user defined you could have a Today flag, Follow-up, Pending etc. The most important thing would be the ability to create a filtered list based on a flag.

All the best

Steve

----- Original message ----------------------------------------

From: Stephen <ushlt...@yahoo.com>
To: MyLifeOrganized <myLifeO...@googlegroups.com>
Received: 17/03/2009 02:50:11
Subject: [MLO] Re: Prioritizing Items ToDo Today - Suggestions Wanted

>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

>Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.15/2004 -
>Release Date: 03/16/09 07:04:00

[Stephen]

Then you're working in two system and lose all the features of MLO. I
do that sometimes, but I hate it.

[Stephen]

Okay, let's be clear then. I don't think new features should be
judged based on whether they adhere strictly to some expert's system.
I just want what will work for me, and so far MLO has brought me
closest to that, using kind of a mix between GTD and DIT. I don't
agree that closed lists must be unordered (how often does your day
goes as planned?), and it appears that I'm not alone.

On Mar 17, 4:27 am, "Steve Wynn" <steve.w...@startupcomputer.com>
wrote:

> A 'Today' goal has been requested a number of times, though to me this isn't really what
> most people are after I don't think. What we are talking about in this instance is an easy
> way to flag items for today - so to an extent it would make more sense I think to have
> some type of flags which then have no bearing on priority. But could be filtered on within
> the ToDo list. A Today goal would somehow need to link into the priority algorithm to be
> effective and would require a super+super boost to jump to the top of a priority ordered
> list, if weekly goals existed. User defined filtered flags would seem to me to be a better
> option as they could work in conjunction with the established priority ordering. If they
> were user defined you could have a Today flag, Follow-up, Pending etc. The most important
> thing would be the ability to create a filtered list based on a flag.

Yes, having a flag system would help. We can largely accomplish that
in the desktop version (not as well in the mobile version, at least as
far as editing the list goes) by using a category, setting a shortcut
to it, and setting up views to show items that are or aren't in that
category. Using the weekly goal gives some ordering to that list,
along the lines of "this item absolutely has to be done today" vs "I'd
like to do this today if possibe" - sort of an A/B categorization.
Although having a "daily goal" would make a lot more sense here,
because using weekly for that means you can't have weekly goals...

Using urgency/priority to try to just work well because:
A) as has been mentioned, it's usually impossible to get the task
exactly where you want it.
B) priority/urgency are affected by the outline structure (e.g. if you
have organization nodes like "Projects", the pri/sev of those nodes I
think affect the pri/sev of the children - there should really be a
"neutral" pri/sev),
C) It's a real pain to set pri/urg by changing sliders. Requires
going to the mouse (difficult esp on laptops). It's a lot easier to
press a single key such as "w" for "weekly". Shortcuts for pri/urg
might help here. It was a nice idea, but most of the time I find it's
too much - usually simple A/B/C priority would suffice. The only
reason
D) We're trying to set the ordering of a list by changing something
that only indirectly affects that ordering. I really just want to
drag/drop to set relative priorities between the items in this list
only.

So, having a flagging system would be nice, having daily goals would
be nice, and having a manual ordered mode that can be turned on/off
for a specific view would be really nice.



On Mar 17, 4:27 am, "Steve Wynn" <steve.w...@startupcomputer.com>
wrote:

> >Release Date: 03/16/09 07:04:00- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Richard Collings]

This just feels like a horrible fudge.

[Richard Collings]

If it helps - I agree that this is an individual preference. OK - so there
are bunch of other people out there who say it is not necessary but in my
view they are wrong!!! It may work for some but it doesn't work for me.

What Andrey has to weigh up is whether there are enough of use "Getting
Things Ordered" people to make it worth his while adding in a manual option
to MLO.

He must know how many people download the product but never sign up and pay.
The key (and difficult) question for him is how many of these are
practitioners of the Getting Things Ordered method of working and who might
have signed up had MLO had a manual ordering facility.

[Nick.Clark]

Maybe but it would be better than writing it onto a sheet of paper as someone said they do. It could also be a way of presenting someone else with the list, possibly a manager who wants to know your plans for the day, or a delegated list for an employee.

Nick


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Collings <r...@rcollings.co.uk>

Sent: 17 March 2009 19:59
To: myLifeO...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MLO] Re: Prioritizing Items ToDo Today - Suggestions Wanted

This just feels like a horrible fudge.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: myLifeO...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:myLifeO...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nick.Clark

> Sent: 17 March 2009 9:17 a
> To: myLifeO...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [MLO] Re: Prioritizing Items ToDo Today - Suggestions Wanted
>
>
>

> How about an option to export the currently showing filtered
> todo list, preferably via the clipboard so that can be
> quickly pasted into anything else such as Word or Calendar
> and reordered there. Would be useful to create today's job list.
>
> Nick
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Collings <r...@rcollings.co.uk>
> Sent: 15 March 2009 11:57

> To: myLifeO...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [MLO] Re: Prioritizing Items ToDo Today - Suggestions Wanted
>
>
>
> >

[Steve Wynn]

What type of Closed List are you using? Because if you are following DIT and a daily closed list - then your day should go to plan 99% of the time. If you don't clear the list for more than three days you stop and re-evaluate your commitments. Because the list is cleared daily order or sequence has no bearing, above that of a personal preference.

I am not saying new features should be judged based on whether they adhere to a system. But there does need to be, I think, separation between preference and systems with regards to feature requests. Only so that it is clear we are talking about something somebody would find useful, against addressing a particular lack of a feature included within an established system.

All I think is we need to do is define our terms and state preference over system, if that is the case. Because when things like GTD, DIT and Closed Lists are mentioned with things like ordered lists. It has me wondering if people have somehow misinterpreted the meaning behind the terms. As from a 'system' perspective ordered lists have no bearing.

All the best

Steve

----- Original message ----------------------------------------
From: Stephen <ushlt...@yahoo.com>
To: MyLifeOrganized <myLifeO...@googlegroups.com>

Received: 17/03/2009 19:32:58
Subject: [MLO] Re: Prioritizing Items ToDo Today - Suggestions Wanted

>Okay, let's be clear then. I don't think new features
>should be
>judged based on whether they adhere strictly to
>some expert's system.
>I just want what will work for me, and so far MLO has
>brought me
>closest to that, using kind of a mix between GTD and
>DIT. I don't
>agree that closed lists must be unordered (how often
>does your day
>goes as planned?), and it appears that I'm not alone.

>On Mar 17, 4:27 am, "Steve Wynn"
><steve.w...@startupcomputer.com>
>wrote:

>> A 'Today' goal has been requested a number of
>times, though to me this isn't really what
>> most people are after I don't think. What we are
>talking about in this instance is an easy
>> way to flag items for today - so to an extent it
>would make more sense I think to have
>> some type of flags which then have no bearing on
>priority. But could be filtered on within
>> the ToDo list. A Today goal would somehow need
>to link into the priority algorithm to be
>> effective and would require a super+super boost
>to jump to the top of a priority ordered
>> list, if weekly goals existed. User defined filtered
>flags would seem to me to be a better
>> option as they could work in conjunction with the
>established priority ordering. If they
>> were user defined you could have a Today flag,
>Follow-up, Pending etc. The most important
>> thing would be the ability to create a filtered list
>based on a flag.

>Yes, having a flag system would help. We can largely

>> From: Stephen <ushlt-li...@yahoo.com>

>> To: MyLifeOrganized
><myLifeO...@googlegroups.com>
>>
>> Received: 17/03/2009 02:50:11

>> Subject: [MLO] Re: Prioritizing Items ToDo Today -
>Suggestions Wanted
>>

>> >Release Date: 03/16/09 07:04:00- Hide quoted
>text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -

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[Steve Wynn]

Part of the problem with most feature requests is knowing the appeal a particular feature will have overall. This is why I mention 'systems', because appealing to an already defined system means there is already a target audience for the feature concerned. Manually ordered list's may add considerable value to MLO - but this is the point to look a little beyond just an ordered list and see if the appeal can widened. What systems utilise an ordered list, what else could MLO handle if manually ordered lists are available?

I think looking at if from this angle only adds strength to the case for a particular feature. If no new/existing systems can be addressed but it is a well supported preference that people require, then that is also a good case for implementation. All I am saying is look beyond the initial feature - see if there is the possibility it can be expanded to draw in more than one target audience.

All the best

Steve

----- Original message ----------------------------------------
From: "Richard Collings" <r...@rcollings.co.uk>
To: <myLifeO...@googlegroups.com>

Received: 17/03/2009 20:52:50
Subject: [MLO] Re: Prioritizing Items ToDo Today - Suggestions Wanted

>If it helps - I agree that this is an individual
>preference. OK - so there
>are bunch of other people out there who say it is not
>necessary but in my
>view they are wrong!!! It may work for some but it
>doesn't work for me.

>What Andrey has to weigh up is whether there are
>enough of use "Getting
>Things Ordered" people to make it worth his while
>adding in a manual option
>to MLO.

>He must know how many people download the
>product but never sign up and pay.
>The key (and difficult) question for him is how many
>of these are
>practitioners of the Getting Things Ordered method
>of working and who might
>have signed up had MLO had a manual ordering
>facility.

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: myLifeO...@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:myLifeO...@googlegroups.com] On

>Behalf Of Steve Wynn
>> Sent: 17 March 2009 11:28 a
>> To: myLifeO...@googlegroups.com

>> Subject: [MLO] Re: Prioritizing Items ToDo Today -
>Suggestions Wanted
>>
>>
>>
>>

>> C-This Month. So although it would not be the

>> From: Stephen <ushlt...@yahoo.com>
>> To: MyLifeOrganized
><myLifeO...@googlegroups.com>

>> >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

>> >Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.15/2004
>-
>> >Release Date: 03/16/09 07:04:00
>>
>> >
>>

[Steve Wynn]

What type of Closed List are you using? Because if you are following DIT and a daily closed list - then your day should go to plan 99% of the time. If you don't clear the list for more than three days you stop and re-evaluate your commitments. Because the list is cleared daily order or sequence has no bearing, above that of a personal preference.

I am not saying new features should be judged based on whether they adhere to a system. But there does need to be, I think, separation between preference and systems with regards to feature requests. Only so that it is clear we are talking about something somebody would find useful, against addressing a particular lack of a feature included within an established system.

All I think is we need to do is define our terms and state preference over system, if that is the case. Because when things like GTD, DIT and Closed Lists are mentioned with things like ordered lists. It has me wondering if people have somehow misinterpreted the meaning behind the terms. As from a 'system' perspective ordered lists have no bearing.

All the best

Steve

----- Original message ----------------------------------------
From: Stephen <ushlt...@yahoo.com>
To: MyLifeOrganized <myLifeO...@googlegroups.com>
Received: 17/03/2009 19:32:58
Subject: [MLO] Re: Prioritizing Items ToDo Today - Suggestions Wanted

>Okay, let's be clear then. I don't think new features
>should be
>judged based on whether they adhere strictly to
>some expert's system.
>I just want what will work for me, and so far MLO has
>brought me
>closest to that, using kind of a mix between GTD and
>DIT. I don't
>agree that closed lists must be unordered (how often
>does your day
>goes as planned?), and it appears that I'm not alone.

>On Mar 17, 4:27 am, "Steve Wynn"
><steve.w...@startupcomputer.com>
>wrote:

>> A 'Today' goal has been requested a number of
>times, though to me this isn't really what
>> most people are after I don't think. What we are
>talking about in this instance is an easy
>> way to flag items for today - so to an extent it
>would make more sense I think to have
>> some type of flags which then have no bearing on
>priority. But could be filtered on within
>> the ToDo list. A Today goal would somehow need
>to link into the priority algorithm to be
>> effective and would require a super+super boost
>to jump to the top of a priority ordered
>> list, if weekly goals existed. User defined filtered
>flags would seem to me to be a better
>> option as they could work in conjunction with the
>established priority ordering. If they
>> were user defined you could have a Today flag,
>Follow-up, Pending etc. The most important
>> thing would be the ability to create a filtered list
>based on a flag.

>> From: Stephen <ushlt-li...@yahoo.com>

>> >Release Date: 03/16/09 07:04:00- Hide quoted
>text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -

[Toes_NZ]

Hello

I would prefer a manual priority system, It's one of the things that
Time & Chaos does very well, but in every other way, i find MLO to be
better.

I use keyboard shortcuts a lot, and find the slider system for
altering priority very slow and clunky.

Cheers

ToesNZ

[Stef]

John,

I share your difficulty.

This is what I'm currently trying to create some order in my ToDo's:

Flags based on the Eisenhower 4 quadrants + a Today flag, and a view to group your the To-Do's on these flags. (see screenshot)

Very simple & for me reduces the overwhelm significantly. 

Drawback:  iPad MLO doesn't support flags (to my knowledge.

Hope this helps someone,

Stefaan