"Because I am English Babu"

[anshul jain]

Dear All,

National Census Began Yesterday. There is a question which will be
asked to you "Tell 3 languages you speak"?

In Urban areas people tell "Hindi, English and regional language".
In Semi Urban areas people tell "Hindi, English (though they dont know
but a status symbol) and regional"

The second one is the problem. This year there is greater chance that
majority of people will select their second language as English
whether it is suitable for them or not. It will make English an
official language, replacing already weak Hindi.
Though there is no harm in English as official language but this is
not suitable time for it as still maximum population living in
villages can not understand any official letter written in English. It
will cause exploitation of poor and less educated people by a very few
english-understanding persons living in the same villages.

Let's not fill English as our one of the three choices.

--
Anshul Jain
Mining Engineer
Central Coalfields Limited
Ranchi (Jharkhand), India
099391 67396

[DHEERAJ JHA]

Dear Sir I think you are right & personally, I have been an advocate of greater use of Hindi for the intra-country works. Mahadevi Verma pointed out (in Hindi, of course): 'Kisi doosri bhasha ko jaana garv ki baat hai, par uss bhasha ko apni matribhasa se upar ka darja dena sharm ki baat hai.. ' I hope we will all agree.. When I discuss with people on matter of decline of Hindi, the most common response I get is: Its just a language, a mode of communication. What if it vanishes!!! Thats unfortunate..because LANGUAGE is not just a means of communication, it encompasses a whole lot of personality & history...It gives a unique sense of identity to the people of a nation..Something that can bind them together & which they can be proud of.. We all know how well France & Germany have been able to use this fact !! People there know English, but they prefer French over it for all their domestic works. The pride that we take in being an English Babu today has been built over centuries, not just years...Lord Macaulay was the first to envision this... We all know the history... So, lets not fill in English this time..& ask everyone in our contact to do the same!! Regards Dheeraj    --- On Fri, 2/4/10, anshul jain <ism.a...@gmail.com> wrote:

-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MyShaurya". Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/my-shaurya or visit http://www.myshaurya.org To unsubscribe, reply using "remove me" as the subject.

---

Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW!.

[saurabh mittal]

Dear My Shauryans

I am sorry, your objective is not very clear to me. I personally feel that there is no harm in accepting English as our second or third language. Why tell a lie?

English is already an well accepted Official Language and all government proceedings are documented in English and another relevant regional language. Not indicating English as one of the three languages spoken won't make any difference.

Half of the people have woven their personality in English without losing their cultural, regional and national identity and the other half is also marching towards assimilating English in their lives to define their identity.Like after hundreds of years of foreign rule, the Indian Identity hasn't detoriated but has been rekindled by mixing with other identities, acceptance of English won't destroy our identity but it will rejuvenate it.

What I know is that the English is the only language which is common to the whole of India. No other language is so widely accepted or understood. So English is the basis of Indian Unity and Integrity. Why not we accept this fact rather than blaming English without any reason. Promotion of Indian English is better than refusing to accept it as our language.

Access to technology like " using a computer or riding a motorbike" is definitely a status symbol and should not be equated with the idea of English as a polluted mode of communication.Considering speaking fluent English as a status symbol is just a similar case as above and should not form the basis to be prejudiced with English language which has been flowing through the Indians for a period of over 100 years.

In today's date, when it is virtually impossible to continue accessing and sharing knowledge without English as a medium, we should not think of English as a foreign language. Actually our culture has developed and enriched English a lot,"Jai Ho" being the latest word added in the English Lexicon. Is it possible to shift all of our My Shaurya Work in Hindi?

Jai Hind

Saurabh Mittal

[Chandan Kumar]

मै सौरभ से सहमत हूँ..

हिमालय से उतर चुकी गंगा को वापस हिमालय पर ले जाना संभव नही..
फ़्रांस और जर्मनी पर २०० वर्षो का साम्राज्यवाद नही रहा.. मगर भारत की जनता में अंग्रेजी इतनी रच बस गयी है की अंग्रेजी को निकाल फेंकना संभव नही है. 

एक बात का उल्लेख करना यहाँ महत्वपूर्ण है की हिंदी को राष्ट्र-भाषा के रूप में अपनाने में काफी दिक्कतों का सामना करना पड़ा था.. खास कर दक्षिण भारत ने तेलगु को राष्ट्र भाषा के रूप में अपनाने के लिए आवाज़ भी उठाई थी.. वस्तुतः भारत में ऐसी कोई भाषा है ही नही जो पूरा देश समझ सके, बोल सके..
पुरे भारत को एकजुट रखने के लिए ये ज्यादा जरुरी है की कोई ऐसी भाषा हो जो सबको एकजुट करके रख सके.. चाहे वो भाषा हिंदी हो या तेलगु या अंग्रेजी.. इससे उतना ज्यादा फर्क नही पड़ता...

यह भी ध्यान देने की बात है की हम चाहे कितनी भी लम्बी लम्बी डींगे दे ले मगर सच्चाई यही है की उत्तर भारत में भी अधिकतर सरकारी काम अंग्रजी में ही हो रहे हैं.. क्या हम लोग अपनी शिक्षा भी अंग्रेजी में नही ले रहे हैं?? क्या आपको लगता है की हिंदी वर्तमान तकनिकी के शब्दों को सरलता से प्रस्तुत कर पायेगा? वास्तव में जिस प्रकार से फ़्रांस और जर्मनी में फ्रांसिस और जर्मन में उच्च शिक्षा दी जाती है, मुझे नही लगता की ये संभव होगा कभी भी की हम सारी तकनिकी शिक्षा हिंदी में दे पायें.. क्या जीव विज्ञानं और सर्जन चिकित्सा की शिक्षा हिंदी में संभव है?? क्या सभी प्रकार की कंप्यूटर शिक्षा को हिंदी में तब्दील कर पाना संभव है..और वो भी विश्व-स्तर की शिक्षा?  और अगर कोशिश भी करें तो क्या सुदूर दक्षिण और पूरब के राज्यों के लिए हिंदी में ऐसी शिक्षा को इस्तेमाल करना संभव हो पायेगा?? क्या तब ये प्रश्न नही उठेगा की जब हिंदी में तकनिकी शिक्षा दी जा सकती है तो तेलगु और आसमिया में क्यों नही..
ऐसा कर के क्या हम और बड़ी समस्या नही खड़ी कर लेंगे????

  ..और जब उच्च शिक्षा अंग्रेजी में ही होनी है तो फिर तो अंग्रेजी को ही मौका दिया जाना चाहिए .. पुरे भारत की संस्कृति को एक सूत्र में बांधने का मौका..


एक बार इस पे भी नजर डालें..
http://www.languageinindia.com/nov2001/1991Languages.html

[DHEERAJ JHA]

Dear Saurabh & Chandan I completely agree with your viewpoints. I am not against English in any way. I agree that it is very essential for everyone to know the language. However, what I want is that HINDI should stay...Otherwise, going by the present trend & craze, Hindi may be non-existent after 50 years. For Hindi to stay, we have to use Hindi for our domestic works..Many initiatives are already in place such as 'HINDI PAKHWARA', where all works are done in Hindi for a fortnight...Do you seriously initiatives like this are unnecessary?? Saurabh said: "Half of the people have woven their personality in English without losing their cultural, regional and national identity and the other half is also marching towards assimilating English in their lives to define their identity.Like after hundreds of years of foreign rule, the Indian Identity hasn't detoriated but has been rekindled by mixing with other identities, acceptance of English won't destroy our identity but it will rejuvenate it." I dont think thats the case..There has been a definite loss of cultural, regional & national identity...Or else, how do you explain the increasing WESTERNISATION of the society with increase in acceptance of English?? Again..I would like to make it clear that I have nothing against westernization...provided we work with  a clear conscience..& adopt the good part.. Dont you agree that people no longer take pride in their culture?? Many even say WHATS THERE TO FEEL PROUD OF?? Is it not a case of loss of identities?? People are INDIAN in flesh & blood but WESTERN in thought.. I suggest you google LORD Macaulay...that should give you a better insight into my viewpoint.. I mean to say that WE SHOULD KNOW ENGLISH, VERY VERY WELL INDEED, but it can be done without sacrificing Hindi.. ENGLISH CONNECTS US GLOBALLY, but not necessarily NATIONALLY... HINDI can connect us NATIONALLY.. Jai Hind !! Regards Dheeraj   --- On Sat, 3/4/10, saurabh mittal <saurabh....@gmail.com> wrote:

-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MyShaurya". Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/my-shaurya or visit http://www.myshaurya.org

---

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

[pankaj verma]

सौरभ जी ने कहा है कि "English is the only language which is common to the whole of INDIA". मुझको नहीं पता कि ऐसे विचार उनके मन में कैसे आये. सच्चाई तो यही है कि ८०% जनता अंग्रेजी को नहीं समझती है, तो ये भाषा कैसे पूरे देश में कॉमन हो गयी (अगर मैं सही समझता हूँ तो, सिर्फ २०% लोग किसी भाषा को कॉमन नहीं बनाते). और बिना किसी संदेह के अंग्रेजी एक हथियार है आम जनता के शोषण का. और जहाँ तक रही अंग्रजी को तकनीकी और विज्ञान कि भाषा बताना(जैसा कि चन्दन ने कहा है), ये बात भी गलत है, क्यूंकि अगर ऐसा है तो विश्व का सारा का सारा विज्ञान अंग्रेजों ने ही बनाया होता, वो हमसे आगे निकल सके इसका मुख्य कारण था कि पूर्व मध्य-काल में उन्होंने विज्ञान पर अधिक मेहनत की न कि इसलिए कि उन्होंने अंग्रेजी पर अधिक मेहनत की. और आप दोनों से एक छोटा सा सवाल है कि ८०% जनता को पहले एक विदेशी भाषा सिखाना अधिक आसान है कि उसे उसकी मातृभाषा में विज्ञान का ज्ञान देना.

--
Pankaj Verma
MTech 2nd year
Computer Science and Engineering Department
IIT Kanpur

[saurabh mittal]

Hi My Shauryans

"Only HINDI can connect us NATIONALLY".. and " Replace English by Hindi" were dialogues of 1960's and they became obsolete then itself. The best upset was done by coming of the "telephone". In 1990's there was something else which made the concept of reverting back to Hindi and abandoning English even more unfeasible- This was the " Computer". These have become most widely used means of communication rather than newspaper which is published in regional languages. So these ideas are obsolete in 1990's itself.

Advancements and changes in society should not be called westernization. Our society has evolved consistently and this process will go on adapting new forms and new structures which may be incompatible with the axioms of past. This doesn't mean we are losing our identity. It's is just we are shifting towards a better form and is a natural process of evolution for any society. Quickly aping west is just an aspect of the aforementioned process and it may have good and bad effects.  

Some of the educational and corporate models like IITs, IIMs, Reliance etc. have stuck strictly to their western counterparts and have performed well in India. Copying a good model is not harmful to our identity. Whatever results by intermixing is in itself an identity.  

What we can feel proud of is our contribution to English. Indian English is evolution of a language and it can not be taken as fall of Hindi. In Indian English our identity is preserved and gains a more universal look both nationally and internationally.

Admitting and Acquiring western knowledge is just as good as acquiring knowledge and availing support from foreign firms is as good as availing support from any other firm. Its thinking at the global level. Adaptability and cultural tolerance as what we were proud of and what we can be proud of. This country is shaped by intermingling of many cultures and traditions which have transformed over generations. Intermingling doesn't destroy the identity but it only enriches it.

We are much better in tolerance than rigid Islamic Countries like Afghanistan, Iran and Arab countries which hold steadfast to their culture and religions over development.

Nobody stopped anyone from using Hindi. You can use it whenever and wherever you like.  

Jai Hind

Saurabh Mittal
B.Tech Mechanical Engineering
IIIrd Year
ISM Dhanbad

[pankaj verma]

सौरभ,

"Some of the educational and corporate models like IITs, IIMs, Reliance etc. have stuck strictly to their western counterparts and have performed well in India. Copying a good model is not harmful to our

identity"
आपको क्या लगता है कि आई.आई.टी. जैसे संस्थानों के विकास का कारण उनका अंग्रेजी इस्तेमाल करना है? और मैं ऐसे कुछ टापुओं के विकसित होने के बजाय इस बात पर अधिक जोर दूंगा कि अंग्रेजी की वजह से देश की अधिकतर जनता का फायदा हो रहा है कि नुकसान.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MyShaurya". Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/my-shaurya or visit http://www.myshaurya.org

[Chandan Kumar]

@ Dheeraj Sir

अगर सिर्फ संस्कृति से जोड़कर रखने का प्रश्न है तो क्यों न हिंदी का महत्व थोडा कम करके अंग्रेजी और एक क्षेत्रीय भाषा को अनिवार्य कर दिया जाए.

यह एक मानी हुई बात है की आज हिंदी भी पूरा देश नही समझ पाता है.

१८ राज्यों में आज भी कार्यालय के काम काज हिंदी में नही हो पा रहे हैं... जैसा की श्री भूपेंद्र सिंह सोलंकी जी (minister home affairs) ने लोक सभा में २२ मार्च २००५ के बयान में कहा है...

"Hindi along with English continues to be the official language of the Union.”

 “According to Section 3(5) of the Official Languages Act, 1963 (as amended in 1967) use of English language shall remain in force until Resolutions for its discontinuance have been passed by the

Legislatures of all the States which have not adopted Hindi as their official language and until

after considering the Resolutions, a Resolution for such discontinuance is passed by each House

of Parliament."

हाँ यह भी सच है की हिंदी अंग्रेजी की तुलना में कहीं ज्यादा समझी और बोली जाती है. मगर आज की आधुनिक शिक्षा भारत में अंग्रेजी में ही संभव है, और क्योंकि कोर्ट-कचहरी, सभी प्रकार के प्रशासनिक कामो में अंग्रेजी का ही इस्तेमाल हो रहा है, और उससे भी महत्वपूर्ण ये की अंग्रेजी सरल भाषा है, इस वजह से उससे यह उम्मीद तो की जा सकती है कि वो सारे देश को बांध कर रख सके. आज की नई पीढ़ी जिसे आधुनिक शिक्षा का जरा भी स्वाद मिला है, अंग्रेजी समझते ही हैं और इस भाषा के माध्यम से वे एक दुसरे की भावनाओ का, संस्कृतियों को और ज्यादा आदर और प्यार दे सकेंगे,ऐसी अपेक्षा की जा सकती है.

हमारी संस्कृति इतनी ओछी नही की एक भाषा के रहने न रहने से उसका अस्तित्व ही संकट में पद जाए. भाषा संस्कृति का अंग है, संस्कृति भाषा का नही.. और फिर हम हिंदी को ख़त्म नही कर रहे.. बस अंग्रेजी को थोडा ज्यादा महत्व दे रहे हैं क्यूंकि राष्ट्र को इसकी जरुरत है.. बस.

 

@ pankaj verma

पंकज जी

मै स्पष्ट कर देना चाहता हूँ की मैंने अंग्रेजी को तकनिकी और विज्ञानं की भाषा नही कहा है..ऐसा हो भी कैसे सकता है?? कुछ प्रमुख देश जैसे फ़्रांस, जर्मनी, जापान और यहाँ तक कि चीन भी तकनिकी सिक्षा अपने देश कि भाषा मै ही देने कि कोशिश मै लगे हुए हैं, और उनका ये प्रयत्न सफल रहा है और मै उसकी प्रशंसा करता हूँ..

मगर स्थिति भारत के साथ अलग है. भारत मै ११४ भाषाएँ और २१६ प्रकार कि बोलियाँ है. दक्षिण भारत के लोगो को हिंदी समझने मै अंग्रेजी के बजाय और ज्यादा दिक्कत का सामना करना पड़ता है.. और अगर तकनिकी शिक्षा हिंदी मै करवानी है तो फिर तो तेलुगु, तमिल, कन्नड़, आसमिया मे क्यों नही?? क्यों उन लोगो पे हिंदी सिखने का बोझ डाला जाए??

और वास्तव मे हिंदी उतनी सरल भाषा नही है कि उसमे तकनिकी ज्ञान दे पाना संभव हो!

मैंने वेधुत अभियांत्रिकी कि एक हिंदी की पुस्तक समझने की कोशिश भी की थी.. मगर तकनिकी के शब्द हिंदी मे बड़े जटिल हो जाते हैं..  

[abhinav tiwary]

What I know is that the English is the only language which is common to the whole of India. No other language is so widely accepted or understood. So English is the basis of Indian Unity and Integrity. Why not we accept this fact rather than blaming English without any reason. Promotion of Indian English is better than refusing to accept it as our language.

when in Bangalore, i entered a shop inquired in English and before completing a sentence the shopkeeper interrupted, hindi aati hai?

Similar thing happened in Chennai too.

Once in train i asked "are you done with charging?" and the person didn't understand.

OK. It is good we learned English (job, prospects, info) but it is wrong that English unites. English is rare spoken to the extent of communicating properly/completely and it will take time for the same. 

English became this or that but in Korea or Japan it is not English that is most spoken/used but their own language. The reason over here is we are weak to enforce our language and before that some of the Indians view Hindi as somebody's and not theirs' and an attempt to overpower. But i can bet most of them who say they don't understand Hindi actually do, and if not will learn Hindi 10 times easily than English.

We ourselves might have faced difficulty in understanding concepts in English, that is we have given more time and effort in understanding/studies than if it were in Hindi. Most common scenario in schools are that they translate a topic given in English into Hindi and consider as having taught/understood it.

 

[abhinav tiwary]

मैंने वेधुत अभियांत्रिकी कि एक हिंदी की पुस्तक समझने की कोशिश भी की थी.. मगर तकनिकी के शब्द हिंदी मे बड़े जटिल हो जाते हैं...

If u were taught in Hindi and those in Bihar board who studied Hindi medium said that they find English strange/difficult, that is if u were taught in Hindi from the beginning u won't face such problems. One of my teacher said "Hindi of typewriter is kantak and i am no way going to use Kantak " this was because it was for the first time he saw it and couldn't relate, it was like रूढ़ शब्द (नोट देर्रिवेद, अस्सिग्नेद).

What did Gandhi, Sardar Patel, Bal Gangadhar Tilak, Veer Sawarkar use.

Savarkar very soon dominated campus life. He, along with a group of students began dressing alike and using swadeshi goods only. He renamed the "Mitra Mela" as "Abhinav Bharat" and declared that "India must be independent; India must be united; India must be a republic; India must have a common language and common script." http://www.swamisamarth.com/shreemaharaj/savarkar.html

when these people who were awake and working for the nation didn't mind use of Hindi why some people who woke up after India got independence started complaining. 

Because it is in our blood and instinctive: when a person becomes rich successful he/she moves towards religion, funds them, wants his fellow people/region to progress, that is works for his prejudice, it gives him/her satisfaction/strength which uncontrolled/ not analysed consciously directs them to categorize, form separate group. Add to that our inherent crab mentality that we can't accept Hindi to win but allow English to so that Hindi isn't enforced/doesn't win if not their language. Add to that our want to get power become CM,etc we are ready to incite.

[DHEERAJ JHA]

@Chandan That is exactly the point..Regional languages give a local connection...We all know how people knowing a common regional language bond with each other almost immediately...(Consider two Bengalis meeting in Punjab)... On the same lines, ENGLISH connects you globally...& it is undoubtedly quintessential for all.... But where is the NATIONAL CONNECTION?? Look carefully dear..it is missing..THERE HAS TO BE ONE LANGUAGE WHICH ALL INDIANS KNOW & RESPECT...HINDI can best serve the purpose!! What do u think?? --- On Sun, 4/4/10, Chandan Kumar <chandan09...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Chandan Kumar <chandan09...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [My-shaurya:536] "Because I am English Babu" To: my-sh...@googlegroups.com

[Badal .]

INDIA  need a language for the unity of the country now let's take all the language one by one

1> Hindi
         Spoken by 40% Indians.
         If other 60% Indians are forced to learn Hindi as a compulsory subject >> When it was done other 60% population have opposed this idea and taken back by supreme court.
If we will logically think what are other benefits for these 60% in learning Hindi >> Hindi is needed for doing job in some office in northern state but getting that job is not worth of learning Hindi. Other language like telgu is spoken in a large part so people generally fulfill his demand in that area so very few come in northern state.

2>Other languages
          Spoken by 60% Indians
          Cant be considered on same ground

3>English
          Spoken by 21% Indians as secondary language
If we will logically think what are other benefits for these 80% in learning English >>As most of the jobs available in India prefer English so English will increase job opportunity so one could think about learning it.
          I believe that with in 10 years this percentage will increase to 40%.

So English is the only language which could be accepted by whole country.
If you think that Hindi should be the national language then imagine yourself in this condition
If Telugu was spoken in 40% part and you were asked to learn this...

[pankaj verma]

बादल,
कठोर शब्दों का प्रयोग करने के लिए क्षमा चाहता हूँ, परन्तु आपने एक बेहद ही 'कुटिल' मेल लिखा है. हिंदी के बारे में आपका आंकड़ा प्राथमिक भाषा के तौर पर इस्तेमाल करने वालों का है, और अंग्रेजी के बारे में द्वितीयक भाषा के तौर पर प्रयोग करने वालों का. हिंदी के बारे में, अगर हिंदी को समझने वाले लोगों के आकड़े भी जोड़ दिए जाएँ तो यह तकरीबन ७५% होता है, जोकि  अंग्रेजी बोलने वालों से लगभग चार गुआ ज्यादा है. और जहाँ तक रही अंग्रेजी की जॉब मार्केट में अधिक स्वीकार्य होने की बात, तो ऐसा आप जैसे अंग्रेजी समर्थक लोगों की ही वजह से है. और जहाँ तक रही ऐसी कल्पना की कि तेलगु सीखने जैसी बात तो मैं आपको बता दूँ कि मैं तेलगु का अंग्रेजी से ज्यादा ही समर्थक हूँ. और चूंकि भारत कि सभी भाषाओँ का उदगम संस्कृत से ही हुआ है, अंग्रेजी कि तुलना में और कोई भी भारतीय भाषा सीखना ज्यादा आसान है. और एक बात और कहूँगा कि आपके लक्ष्य दूरगामी हैं कि लघु अवधि के. दूरगामी लक्ष्य के बारे में कम से कम मुझे अंग्रेजी की जगह भारतीय भाषाओँ को जगह देना अधिक साध्य लगता है.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MyShaurya". Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/my-shaurya or visit http://www.myshaurya.org

[Badal .]

At the time of writing the mail, I think about the secondary speaker of Hindi but I have not added them because even primary speaker of Hindi don't know whether unhattar is 69 or 79 and many of them are not able to understand a official Hindi letter.

In these 74% percent, I bet only 10% will be able to understand official Hindi so what is use of it.
But in case of 21% who speaks secondary English I bet most of them could are able to understand official letter in English.

Few years before I was also the supporter of Hindi and I have not found a person in my district who got more marks in Hindi in U.P. board exam and I will be the happiest person on earth if Hindi is declared as national language but in prospective of other 26% percent who can't even understand a word of Hindi and many other who can't even write a official letter or essay in Hindi , English could be that language.

Regards
Badal Singh
Petroleum Engg.
ISM Dhanbad

2010/4/4 pankaj verma <pankaj...@gmail.com>

[Anand Anupam]

So Badal, It means that for 25% people who do not understand hindi, english should be made the national language not understood by 79 % people ????
queer.
By the way, Mr. Pankaj wrote 75% not 74%, but hindi is not only about the numbers and so is english. So dont say that a person is acquainted with english if he knows entire counting or can speak some essays on domestic animals. Ur 21% consists of such persons. The actual no. of english speakers (first language) in India is zero.

ANAND ANUPAM
MLE
INDIAN SCHOOL OF MINES.

2010/4/4 Badal . <bada...@gmail.com>

[Chandan Kumar]

@ Dheeeraj Sir

I accept the point. We need a national language which must not be English so that it can connect the whole nation.
But as it has already been pointed out Hindi combined with English can survive, and not any of this alone.

2010/4/4 DHEERAJ JHA <dheer...@yahoo.co.in>

[Badal .]

One chance to Hindi was already given as the national language and then denied by the supreme court because of protest from southern part of the country. So it is very clear that Hindi could not be that language so why not give a chance to English.

When government had said that Hindi must be the compulsory subject in schools then it was opposed in many part of the country.
Now if same rule come for the English after few years then their will be hardly any protest and I am saying so on the ground of present situation.

Every parent want to the admission of his child in an english medium school not in hindi medium school and for next generation hindi is becoming more and more harder.

Regards
Badal Singh
Petroleum Engg.
ISM Dhanbad

2010/4/4 Anand Anupam <the.a...@gmail.com>

[Chandan Kumar]

Badal and pankaj sir

there is a reason why people want to send their children to english medium schools.. the modern education was developed in western countries and to cope with the international standards we have to give the education in a language in which the books of international standard are available.... and unfortunately most of them are in english...

we may require hindi as a national language but saying that we should convert education in hindi rather than in english is illogical and insane.

and the value of english in education system will keep on increasing.. and also the fact is that english is easier thatn hindi... count the total number of alphabet or total number of words, or simplicity of grammar or any thing..

[Anand Anupam]

plus dont forget the point of english being foreign.

ANAND ANUPAM
MLE
INDIAN SCHOOL OF MINES

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 1:19 AM, Anand Anupam <the.a...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hindi was going to be imposed back then, while a large enough no. of people could not understand it. The Supreme Court's judgement was good. But, even if now or 50 years later (when the people choosing English as first language will be still very less), such a step taken for English will also attract protests.

The need for the govt. is not to make any language compulsory, but to spread all the languages (with self realisation of which is the most eligible for the status), as optional and choose the language accepted by all, when such a situation comes.

Don't think that making English education compulsory will not be protested, Hindi activists will still be there.

Regards,

ANAND ANUPAM
MLE
INDIAN SCHOOL OF MINES

[Anand Anupam]

Hindi was going to be imposed back then, while a large enough no. of people could not understand it. The Supreme Court's judgement was good. But, even if now or 50 years later (when the people choosing English as first language will be still very less), such a step taken for English will also attract protests.

The need for the govt. is not to make any language compulsory, but to spread all the languages (with self realisation of which is the most eligible for the status), as optional and choose the language accepted by all, when such a situation comes.

Don't think that making English education compulsory will not be protested, Hindi activists will still be there.

Regards,

ANAND ANUPAM
MLE
INDIAN SCHOOL OF MINES

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:02 AM, Badal . <bada...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Anand Anupam]

Dear All,

Supporters of English may appear to be right apparently but are not absolutely. Don’t believe me? Leave their perspective and think from a totally opposite present point of view, which in fact is the view of the majority of Indians, who are not technocrats, doctors, managers, etc. Think as the common man. How would you like it, when the national and official language is a language which you cannot fully understand, and you have to do all your official works like payment of bills, complaints, applications, writing mails, and so on and so forth in that language. You will end up writing funny things having no meaning. You should try imagining your daily chores in Telugu or Bengali, to really assimilate the situation.

The discussion started with Anshul sir's trepidation that English may be made the national language of India which definitely will give chills to anyone who has involved him(her)self with the masses; the masses which already feel to be living in somebody else’s country ruled by aliens, e.g., they feel the babus are not actually for them (babus, being public servants), but are local kings under the empire of ministers(politician).

To make myself more credible let me present some facts:-

1.       According to the census of India, 2001, the speakers of Hindi (i.e., those who chose it as first language) were 422048642 (over 422 million = 42% approx.) ^{[1] [2]} making Hindi the most spoken language of the people of India (1.02 billion ^{[3] [4]}).

2.       The next most spoken language was Bengali with 83 million speakers (just note the difference – 8 times) ^{[1] [2]}.

3.       The no. of speakers of tamil, telugu and kannada were respectively 61, 74 and 38 million respectively.

4.       The no. of true speakers of English, i.e., those who take it as first language were 0 ^{[1] [5]} (astonishing??), wonder why some promote it so much, yet ??

 

So clearly, if you want to enforce English as the national language then remember that you will be responsible for alienating most of the Indians in their own country.

“It is a good thing that you don’t want to lie about your second language but you can protest against English by leaving the column blank rather than filling it with English.”

 

From Anshul Sir’s fear the discussion has shifted to eligibility of English as our national language.  Following article is my view on the matter.

Following is my analysis in the form of a long article based on mails by Saurabh, Chandan and Badal (no hard feelings please, I apologise if you guys feel bad, just oppose where you do not agree with me) and apparently I am against almost everything they say. My reasons for disagreement will be clear to you as you will be through reading it. It is strictly written to discourage the forced influence of English and to discourage the thoughts in the mind of some people favouring to make English as the National Language. If you feel the same as me, you don’t need to read it, but I urge you to add your points.

 

My National Language: My Views

 

From Saurabh,

“...............English is already an well accepted Official Language and all government proceedings are documented in English and another relevant regional language. Not indicating English as one of the three languages spoken won't make any difference..................”

English wasn’t a well accepted language but an enforced one. Enforced by the extremism of some South Indian leaders, apparently motivated by power, and ultimately by the govt. to handle the situation. There are many other things in the govt. and constitution which you do not approve of and are ready to oppose, then why not against this, if it will be for the betterment of the general.

Not indicating English might not make any difference but indicating it, as many people (ENGLISH BABUs, who got us into this discussionL) unknowingly do, can make a lot of difference. Don’t believe me? Where do you think that the figure of 21% English speakers in India (as indicated by the Wikipedia snapshot of Saurabh) comes from??

“One more thing in this regard. If enforcing Hindi in place of Tamil or any other language will threaten the language, then, enforcing English will not do anything less.”

 

“..............Half of the people have woven their personality in English without losing their cultural, regional and national identity and the other half is also marching towards assimilating English in their lives to define their identity.Like after hundreds of years of foreign rule, the Indian Identity hasn't detoriated but has been rekindled by mixing with other identities, acceptance of English won't destroy our identity but it will rejuvenate it...........’

 

It’s not half of the people who have “woven their personality in English”, but actually a meagre no. of people (in reference to India’s total population and not the corporate India or business India or page3 India or sports India or entertainment India or other – you must have got the idea!).

People who are marching towards it are not those who love the English language and admire its beauty, but those like you and me who have to do that in order to survive and flourish.

It’s pure fact that Indian culture is a mixture of numerous others. But seeing English as a part of further evolution of our culture is ridiculous. Never in the evolution of our culture was a language or any aspect of culture enforced on the people, as it was done by the British and now by the “ENGLISH BABU” mentality people. Always in history, the evolution took place through the common people who interacted with outsiders, taught them and learned from them, but today is a different situation, when the commons are psychologically forced into it.

“..........What I know is that the English is the only language which is common to the whole of India. No other language is so widely accepted or understood. So English is the basis of Indian Unity and Integrity. Why not we accept this fact rather than blaming English without any reason. Promotion of Indian English is better than refusing to accept it as our language.............”

Well, don’t take it otherwise, but I can’t stop myself from stating this (please correct me if I am wrong) “English is the only language in Constitution (official, not scheduled) which is not from India, leave the case of it being common”.

Even if one believes that English can be spoken, written or even fully understood by 21%, Hindi still takes the crown.

If English can be a basis of Indian Unity and Integrity then Nepali can be a better basis and a language having a larger influence will be a still better basis.

As Abhinav sir says, people in almost all non-Hindi speaking cities understand Hindi better than English. Take another example. “If somebody go to Apollo Hospital Chennai (Madras). From rail way station to Apollo Hospital and medical shop to all other hotels/shops, we will not find any difficulty in communication in Hindi. It doesn’t matter what is true form of Hindi. The most important aspect is communication, which we can do smoothly with Apollo staff and other patients from Bengal, Assam, Orisa and Hindi spoken belt. So this is totally absurd thinking that Hindi is spoken in limited Areas. It is politically motivated things.” ^[10]. The language most common in India is Hindi.

If you still don’t believe, I suggest you try it some time.

Another thing. Even if there is something called Indian English (a funny thing to the real English men), it is better and easier to promote any other more widely spoken Indian Language to be understood and spoken nationally. And yes we may accept it, in fact we already have in our constitution. But teaching it to make the innate language of even 50% Indians seems to be something out of the scope of our lifetime.

“We may pretend to be English Babus, but we are Indians”

“.....................Access to technology like " using a computer or riding a motorbike" is definitely a status symbol and should not be equated with the idea of English as a polluted mode of communication.Considering speaking fluent English as a status symbol is just a similar case as above and should not form the basis to be prejudiced with English language which has been flowing through the Indians for a period of over 100 years......................”

Well said!

But to common ENGLISH BABUs, who you must have observed as those who couldn’t speak English properly or correctly or even in apprehensible way, English is a status and knowledge symbol. At many places, people with good knowledge and teaching abilities but indifferent from English are preferred over less qualified but “angrez” teachers.

English hasn’t been running through Indians for the past............. any no. of years........at least not among the most of the Indians...........not at least among the Indians who live in Gandhiji’s real India..........not in my father or grandfather or in over 99% of people they ever met till now (they never went abroad L)

“...............In today's date, when it is virtually impossible to continue accessing and sharing knowledge without English as a medium, we should not think of English as a foreign language. Actually our culture has developed and enriched English a lot,"Jai Ho" being the latest word added in the English Lexicon. Is it possible to shift all of our My Shaurya Work in Hindi?”

 

It is virtually impossible but not impossible and in no way equivalent to sending the flowing Ganges back to the Himalayas. What is truly needed is some will power and lack of narrow mindedness. Remember the Chinese are doing it with their symbolic languages which have a different symbol for every word. Why can’t we do it with one of the most scientific language of ours? The real question is, has anyone tried for it?

Irony is that I am expressing all this in English which for me is a necessary evil, and to improve which I sincerely labour. If English were banned from India right now, I will be one of the sufferers, but still I advocate for reducing its importance for the betterment of a nation. As far as the works of MyShaurya in Hindi is concerned, it is highly possible, and depends on us only that whether we project ourselves as those who stick to a particular language or style or as those who are open.

“Our culture may develop and enrich English a lot, but not as much as English enriches ours.”

 

 

From Chandan,

“...................मै सौरभ से सहमत हूँ..

हिमालय से उतर चुकी गंगा को वापस हिमालय पर ले जाना संभव नही..

फ़्रांस और जर्मनी पर २०० वर्षो का साम्राज्यवाद नही रहा.. मगर भारत की जनता में अंग्रेजी इतनी रच बस गयी है की अंग्रेजी को निकाल फेंकना संभव नही है. ..............”

English is not as much intermixed with the Indian population as some people think it is. If anyone doesn’t agree, have a look on attached and above pointed statistics, or carry out a survey of your own in any part of India, taking a sufficient amount of people in consideration in the part of India.

English is not mixed with the people because, if it were, then, this discussion wouldn’t have taken place. It is mixed in the system, which we aim at changing. If we want to change other bad things with the system, why can’t we change this, if something else is in the better interests of the people? We just have to think on it.

 

“English is in the system, not in the people of India”

 

“..............एक बात का उल्लेख करना यहाँ महत्वपूर्ण है की हिंदी को राष्ट्र-भाषा के रूप में अपनाने में काफी दिक्कतों का सामना करना पड़ा था.. खास कर दक्षिण भारत ने तेलगु को राष्ट्र भाषा के रूप में अपनाने के लिए आवाज़ भी उठाई थी.. ................”

This is a hard fact, but it was because of the narrow mindedness of people, hunger for power in leaders and authoritarian practice to promote Hindi. As some of you must know that Hindi was made compulsory in schools to start with, and against such steps, oratorically skilled leaders easily misguided the common people. The need was and still is to slowly make Hindi a part of every Indian, giving suitable explanations and justifications, through discussions at various levels, debates, etc. without rushing it because India is not under despotic or aristocratic rule, haven’t been in a long time and people have become addicted to their freedom and self authority which they won’t give away easily.

 

“........................वस्तुतः भारत में ऐसी कोई भाषा है ही नही जो पूरा देश समझ सके, बोल सके.. पुरे भारत को एकजुट रखने के लिए ये ज्यादा जरुरी है की कोई ऐसी भाषा हो जो सबको एकजुट करके रख सके.. चाहे वो भाषा हिंदी हो या तेलगु या अंग्रेजी.. इससे उतना ज्यादा फर्क नही पड़ता..............”

Satyavachan by Chandan. But if all can’t understand one language, it is better to teach all a language which is spoken by the most from the point of ease and practicality. It’s not about Hindi or my connection with it, but, it’s about the language which is well spoken by over 40% Indians and well understood by more than half of the Indian populace. ^{[1] [2]}

“What are needed are will power, open mindedness and resource investment for a greater good of the nation.”

 

“...........यह भी ध्यान देने की बात है की हम चाहे कितनी भी लम्बी लम्बी डींगे दे ले मगर सच्चाई यही है की उत्तर भारत में भी अधिकतर सरकारी काम अंग्रजी में ही हो रहे हैं.. क्या हम लोग अपनी शिक्षा भी अंग्रेजी में नही ले रहे हैं??............”

 

It is yet another good fact presented by Chandan, but as I already stated that it’s the system, yaar. The system has been moulded over the years in such a way since the time of our British dependence to give the present view, and anyone who thinks it is not right must raise his/her voice and try and change the system. Isn’t that what we are doing and strive to do in future?

As far as education is concerned higher education should be made in Hindi (the deprived official Indian language), to encourage the students to continue their education with lesser worries on learning an alien language. It is only through education in mother language that the technology will spread to the common man in true sense. It is through this, that there will be greater innovations in our country. Also, I feel that, if English were not the medium for higher studies, brain drain would have been lesser.

 

“.................... क्या आपको लगता है की हिंदी वर्तमान तकनिकी के शब्दों को सरलता से प्रस्तुत कर पायेगा? वास्तव में जिस प्रकार से फ़्रांस और जर्मनी में फ्रांसिस और जर्मन में उच्च शिक्षा दी जाती है, मुझे नही लगता की ये संभव होगा कभी भी की हम सारी तकनिकी शिक्षा हिंदी में दे पायें.. क्या जीव विज्ञानं और सर्जन चिकित्सा की शिक्षा हिंदी में संभव है?? क्या सभी प्रकार की कंप्यूटर शिक्षा को हिंदी में तब्दील कर पाना संभव है..और वो भी विश्व-स्तर की शिक्षा?  और अगर कोशिश भी करें तो क्या सुदूर दक्षिण और पूरब के राज्यों के लिए हिंदी में ऐसी शिक्षा को इस्तेमाल करना संभव हो पायेगा?? क्या तब ये प्रश्न नही उठेगा की जब हिंदी में तकनिकी शिक्षा दी जा सकती है तो तेलगु और आसमिया में क्यों नही..
ऐसा कर के क्या हम और बड़ी समस्या नही खड़ी कर लेंगे????.................”

Hindi does have the capability to teach technology, medical science and all other sciences. Why does anyone think it doesn’t? After all it’s just a language, one of the most scientific languages of the world. But still there are minimal higher education centres which do that. Why? Because as we lacked in modern knowledge at the time of independence, we imported knowledge with its language from the British and no serious attempts were made to translate that in people’s language as the people were fighting among themselves on language. Ha!!

If all modern knowledge is converted in Hindi (don’t say that is impossible or the resultant will be very difficult, why? You will know!), that will be easier for people of South and most of Far East India to learn than English. Why? Because Hindi is a sister language to their mother tongue while English comes from across seven seas (just a metaphor ;) ) . However, there should at least be choice available to the people to choose their medium of learning so that from the very beginning the emphasis is on the subject matter and not on the language. The govt. should translate higher engineering in all the major Indian languages, ideally, if not in all then at least in the most influential ones. You will agree with me that it is easier and more effective to teach in own language than in an alien language.

And such an exercise is not impossible for the govt., what it needs is will power and diplomacy. The exercise will be tedious, costly and numerous other things, but it will have great long-term and short-term benefits, which will greatly outweigh the costs. The French, the Germans, the Japanese, the Chinese are examples. If they can do it, what is the inferiority in us that will stop us from a similar feat?

“It is easier to learn from mother or someone close than from a stranger”.

 

“..........और जब उच्च शिक्षा अंग्रेजी में ही होनी है तो फिर तो अंग्रेजी को ही मौका दिया जाना चाहिए .. पुरे भारत की संस्कृति को एक सूत्र में बांधने का मौका..........”

One can’t tie a piece of butter with thread and transport it. Something similarly flexible like paper has to be used. Similarly, one can’t preach patriotism in an alien language. No matter how well one speaks in a foreign language, he/she can’t ask anyone to do something in the name of the country by speaking in the foreign language. Don’t believe? Take our politicians for example, why do you think they speak in local languages?

The unity of the country will be best increased when there will be at least one language which all the people will know. You decide what that can be on the basis of exhaustive reasoning.

“The sense of oneness, which is also known as unity, happens among people with something common not from something which is entirely foreign”.

 

From Saurabh Mittal,

“......................."Only HINDI can connect us NATIONALLY".. and " Replace English by Hindi" were dialogues of 1960's and they became obsolete then itself. The best upset was done by coming of the "telephone". In 1990's there was something else which made the concept of reverting back to Hindi and abandoning English even more unfeasible- This was the " Computer". These have become most widely used means of communication rather than newspaper which is published in regional languages. So these ideas are obsolete in 1990's itself...............”

 

It is a very nice observation from Saurabh. One thing I’d like to express here that technological advancement only kills inconvenience and not language. Hindi might have seemed to be incompatible with computer but that is not a truth. More and more websites are emerging that offer Hindi content. Our friend Chandan writes in Hindi every now and then. In fact, Indians being better exposed with their mother language like to see online content in Hindi. As was surveyed by JuxtConsult, “only 28% Internet users in India prefer reading content in English. In 2009 only 13% of existing internet users prefer to read in English”. ^{[6] [7]} Today, there are numerous websites that offer their content in Indian languages and this number is bound to increase in future.

Again in this field also, it is not impossible for a language other than English to enter the world of computing, e.g., there are numerous programming languages. ^[8]

 

“What are needed are will power, open mindedness and resource investment for a greater good of the nation.”

 

“.................Advancements and changes in society should not be called westernization. Our society has evolved consistently and this process will go on adapting new forms and new structures which may be incompatible with the axioms of past. This doesn't mean we are losing our identity. It's is just we are shifting towards a better form and is a natural process of evolution for any society. Quickly aping west is just an aspect of the aforementioned process and it may have good and bad effects...................”  

 

There is no problem from evolution of the society to anyone, not also to me. J

What actually disturb all protesters are the shortcomings of this so called “evolution”.

What kind of an evolution is an evolution which neglects almost entire populace? Every change is not an evolution and does not mean betterment. No system is perfect and exactly copying it also brings the disadvantages. If the west is currently ahead of us, it does not mean that they are better than us in all respects and we should exactly become their copies. Don’t believe? Once, the East was more developed than Europe. India and China was the centre of world economy. Today Europe is far more developed than India and China, not because they copied anything from these countries, but because they developed some things of their own and took advantage of the situation at these lands.

A system which prevails at a developed place will not necessarily bring development if copied to other place. If you think so, then you must also be in favour of moving around on streets in suits and ties for the entire year, even in a hot country like India.

Definitely, you will agree that language has nothing to do with development. If by speaking in English you can be developed like US, then you can do that by also speaking in French like France, or by speaking in Hindi, like India soon.

 

 

“..................Some of the educational and corporate models like IITs, IIMs, Reliance etc. have stuck strictly to their western counterparts and have performed well in India. Copying a good model is not harmful to our identity. Whatever results by intermixing is in itself an identity..............”  

 

IITs and IIMs have performed not because of their sticking to any particular system, but by the talent that comes to such places. Reliance succeeds through its entrepreneurs (talent, isn’t it?). There are similar examples in many countries with different languages. I think that you get my point that to succeed you don’t need to speak in a particular language, but talent among many other different things having no relation with the language being spoken.

Intermixing results in an identity (new, isn’t it?), but changing the language to a foreign one does destroy an existing identity. Don’t believe me? Why is English called “English”? (Hint: it originated in a part of present UK known as England)

 

 

“..................What we can feel proud of is our contribution to English. Indian English is evolution of a language and it can not be taken as fall of Hindi. In Indian English our identity is preserved and gains a more universal look both nationally and internationally............”

 

Yeah, we can feel proud on that or we can have greater pride in looking at the face of the world as a developed country which is united by an indigenous language. The former looks more like a compromise to me.

 

“....................Admitting and Acquiring western knowledge is just as good as acquiring knowledge and availing support from foreign firms is as good as availing support from any other firm. Its thinking at the global level. Adaptability and cultural tolerance as what we were proud of and what we can be proud of. This country is shaped by intermingling of many cultures and traditions which have transformed over generations. Intermingling doesn't destroy the identity but it only enriches it.

 

We are much better in tolerance than rigid Islamic Countries like Afghanistan, Iran and Arab countries which hold steadfast to their culture and religions over development.

 

Nobody stopped anyone from using Hindi. You can use it whenever and wherever you like...............”  

 

Can’t the western knowledge be acquired in a mother language? If you have gone through my preceding discussion, you will say yes, at least ideally, but not practically in India. If such a thing, i.e., knowledge in one’s own language was possible wouldn’t it be the best form of acquiring knowledge? But it is not possible in India, thanks to our previous and present govts. But, we want to make a better govt. When we do shouldn’t we do what’s best for the people in general? Why should we compromise? Why should we stubbornly be stuck with phrases like “this is not possible”, “can’t do it”, “they are better than us and they do it so we must do it” and so on and so forth.

To this I would also like to add what Mr. Pankaj Verma‘s point, that because of English a few of Indians may appear to some to be gaining but the masses are seriously suffering. Be it in the field of higher education, billing, banking, inter-state journey (try going to a state speaking an Indian language other than yours. You will feel that you are in a whole different country) or any other.

 Many people say that our education system in India is not practical. They are right. They teach a language with so much incentive which you will not use in day to day life (unless you are going to be an NRI). The medium for knowledge is a language which you won’t learn naturally but will have to spend numerous hours to learn before fully grasping the matter.

Advocators of English also say that English is essential for global exposure. lol. Can’t  anyone, having no background in English, learn good enough English in months when he/she has to go abroad, or deal with foreigners or do other international stuff. Or should we all be always presentable to to the foreigners (Lord Englishmen) at all times, if they somehow stray in our field?

I don’t say that English should be removed entirely from schools with immediate effect; rather it should be done slowly. If there are 6 IITs which teach in English medium, then there should be at least 7 which teach in Indian languages as medium. It will definitely be a tough and torturing process but it can be done by training in Hindi or other Indian language. The present govt. and the people around won’t do it. But do we believe in all govt. policies? Of course, we don’t.

And one thing that must be taken care by all of us is that we must not let English be our national language under no circumstance, at least, for the sake of practicality or congenitalness or for many other reasons.

We can be more open-minded than our Afghan, Iraqi, etc. counterparts but our level of open-mindedness is way off the limits. This level of openness is not required at all. Again don’t believe me? Should I take the French, Germans, etc. as examples again.

 

From Chandan,

“.................अगर सिर्फ संस्कृति से जोड़कर रखने का प्रश्न है तो क्यों न हिंदी का महत्व थोडा कम करके अंग्रेजी और एक क्षेत्रीय भाषा को अनिवार्य कर दिया जाए.

यह एक मानी हुई बात है की आज हिंदी भी पूरा देश नही समझ पाता है..................”

If regional languages were made that important then as Dheeraj sir rightly asks where will be the feeling of nationalism.

According to Dheeraj sir, “...Regional languages give a local connection...We all know how people knowing a common regional language bond with each other almost immediately...(Consider two Bengalis meeting in Punjab)...

On the same lines, ENGLISH connects you globally...& it is undoubtedly quintessential for all....

But where is the NATIONAL CONNECTION?? Look carefully dear..it is missing..THERE HAS TO BE ONE LANGUAGE WHICH ALL INDIANS KNOW & RESPECT...HINDI can best serve the purpose...”

I ask one question here. Is a global connection more important or a national?

The answer according to me is national (I am not planning to move abroad). Dheeraj Sir suggests Hindi for this purpose. Why? Is it because he comes from a Hindi speaking region? If it’s so, then why did Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi and many other freedom fighters support it? The answer you might already know. It’s also in detail in my reply to Badal’s mail.

It’s true the whole country can’t community in any one language, but, Hindi undoubtedly is the most common language in India.

“...................१८ राज्यों में आज भी कार्यालय के काम काज हिंदी में नही हो पा रहे हैं... जैसा की श्री भूपेंद्र सिंह सोलंकी जी (minister home affairs) ने लोक सभा में २२ मार्च २००५ के बयान में कहा है...

"Hindi along with English continues to be the official language of the Union................”

 “According to Section 3(5) of the Official Languages Act, 1963 (as amended in 1967) use of English language shall remain in force until Resolutions for its discontinuance have been passed by the. Legislatures of all the States which have not adopted Hindi as their official language and until after considering the Resolutions, a Resolution for such discontinuance is passed by each House of Parliament." ...........”

Mr. Solanki’s statement is true but so is mine, i.e., English is in the system and not in the people. The other states which do not have Hindi as an official language, don’t necessarily have English as official language. Except Nagaland and Meghalay, no other state has English as sole official language. It is an official language in some other states combined with a mother language of the state. Such states, total 4 in number, are Arunachal Pradesh, Kerala, Tripura and Uttarakhand. ^[9]

Definitely, the use of Hindi in India is not enough to make it a national language, but the use of English is India is not even enough to consider it even as an Indian language, but the irony is that you will find it written on every Indian currency note.

It is another fact that, speaking in minimums, making Hindi the national language is almost constitutionally impossible for the next 30 years or so. But making English the national language is severely out of the question.

“The language most common in India is Hindi”.

 

“.................हाँ यह भी सच है की हिंदी अंग्रेजी की तुलना में कहीं ज्यादा समझी और बोली जाती है. मगर आज की आधुनिक शिक्षा भारत में अंग्रेजी में ही संभव है, और क्योंकि कोर्ट-कचहरी, सभी प्रकार के प्रशासनिक कामो में अंग्रेजी का ही इस्तेमाल हो रहा है, और उससे भी महत्वपूर्ण ये की अंग्रेजी सरल भाषा है, इस वजह से उससे यह उम्मीद तो की जा सकती है कि वो सारे देश को बांध कर रख सके. आज की नई पीढ़ी जिसे आधुनिक शिक्षा का जरा भी स्वाद मिला है, अंग्रेजी समझते ही हैं और इस भाषा के माध्यम से वे एक दुसरे की भावनाओ का, संस्कृतियों को और ज्यादा आदर और प्यार दे सकेंगे,ऐसी अपेक्षा की जा सकती है.

हमारी संस्कृति इतनी ओछी नही की एक भाषा के रहने न रहने से उसका अस्तित्व ही संकट में पद जाए. भाषा संस्कृति का अंग है, संस्कृति भाषा का नही.. और फिर हम हिंदी को ख़त्म नही कर रहे.. बस अंग्रेजी को थोडा ज्यादा महत्व दे रहे हैं क्यूंकि राष्ट्र को इसकी जरुरत है.. बस...................”

Today’s higher education in India is only possible in English. It’s true now and for the next 2-3 Lok Sabha elections, at least. But, it may not be after 5 years of serious efforts by a govt. taken to uplift an Indian language. I am stating it for the third time that English is a part of the system and not the people. Isn’t this one of the reasons why the common man feels different from the system? The use of a language in a system can be controlled by the govt., can’t it be? The govt. after some efforts can change the language used in a govt. office in not more than say 15-20 years. Can’t it?

English can bind us together? If an indigenous knowledge can’t do that, how can a language from a far off country, having nothing to familiarize with, can do that. Hindi can’t be made the national language now, so give this position to English. Those who think like this should consider this situation like the one in which you will not give food to a hungry family member when you can’t eat it but will readily give it to an outsider.  Just think on it as you read on.

English is a simple language to those who have been with it for more than five years. So it is a simple language to me and all of my English medium batch mates. But try saying something like this to someone who didn’t go to English medium school or to the rest 80% junta of India (i.e., except the ENGLISH BABUs). Even to these ENGLISH BABUs ask to correctly pronounce simple English words like rendezvous, lieutenant, entrepreneur, cliché, or colonel, or words as ordinary as peon. These English babus while going through this article will point out more than 10 words which they cannot understand without seeing the dictionary (note that my English is just satisfactory). How can one expect such people to clearly communicate emotions, or anything, when expressing correctly on the other hand is a job 10 times more difficult? One more question, how many of the ENGLISH BABUs will be able to tell about themselves fully and correctly in conversations in English language? And it is these English babus who have English as their second and third languages make the figure of 21% English speakers in India as shown by Saurabh and believed by many innocent common people, who could not read and understand the deceptive notes.

Respect their culture? Some of the Indians worship it (you must have heard someone saying that a foreign country is so good for numerous reasons, but it will be relatively hard for you to find a person saying India is so good........  it is also a factor that creates many English babus).

I totally agree with Chandan when he says that our culture can’t be destroyed by giving some importance to some other language, but what actually such an act will destroy is the already dwindling faith of millions of Indians on the system. It will destroy the channel which could have led to the equality of opportunity to millions their future generations, among many other things.

 

“................मै स्पष्ट कर देना चाहता हूँ की मैंने अंग्रेजी को तकनिकी और विज्ञानं की भाषा नही कहा है..ऐसा हो भी कैसे सकता है?? कुछ प्रमुख देश जैसे फ़्रांस, जर्मनी, जापान और यहाँ तक कि चीन भी तकनिकी सिक्षा अपने देश कि भाषा मै ही देने कि कोशिश मै लगे हुए हैं, और उनका ये प्रयत्न सफल रहा है और मै उसकी प्रशंसा करता हूँ..

मगर स्थिति भारत के साथ अलग है. भारत मै ११४ भाषाएँ और २१६ प्रकार कि बोलियाँ है. दक्षिण भारत के लोगो को हिंदी समझने मै अंग्रेजी के बजाय और ज्यादा दिक्कत का सामना करना पड़ता है.. और अगर तकनिकी शिक्षा हिंदी मै करवानी है तो फिर तो तेलुगु, तमिल, कन्नड़, आसमिया मे क्यों नही?? क्यों उन लोगो पे हिंदी सिखने का बोझ डाला जाए??

और वास्तव मे हिंदी उतनी सरल भाषा नही है कि उसमे तकनिकी ज्ञान दे पाना संभव हो!

मैंने वेधुत अभियांत्रिकी कि एक हिंदी की पुस्तक समझने की कोशिश भी की थी.. मगर तकनिकी के शब्द हिंदी मे बड़े जटिल हो जाते हैं.. ....................”

If some other countries can impart higher knowledge in their mother language, so can we and we may have if we weren’t fighting amongst ourselves. In India, there are 22 major languages and education should be converted in all those languages, ideally. But this has to start with the most used one, of course.

Let the higher education be in all Telugu, Tamil, Kannada, Assamese, Bengali, etc. but it must be in Hindi.

Of course, the technical words of Hindi will be tough for someone from English medium, but not for someone from Hindi medium. The converse is also true. Technical English words are hard nuts for Hindi medium students to crack. If you don’t believe me try some of your engineering words with a B.A. with Hindi medium and try with their Hindi meanings as well.

But even for Hindi speaking English medium students, it is for their benefit that Hindi is made their national language rather than English, after all Hindi is their mother language. Regarding non-Hindi speaking English medium people (at most 21%, including those who also have Hindi as one of the three languages), I would say that their number is so less than the rest of non-English community that declaring English as national language will make the whole nation suffer.

 

From Badal,

“..........INDIA  need a language for the unity of the country now let's take all the language one by one

1> Hindi
         Spoken by 40% Indians.
         If other 60% Indians are forced to learn Hindi as a compulsory subject >> When it was done other 60% population have opposed this idea and taken back by supreme court.
If we will logically think what are other benefits for these 60% in learning Hindi >> Hindi is needed for doing job in some office in northern state but getting that job is not worth of learning Hindi. Other language like telgu is spoken in a large part so people generally fulfill his demand in that area so very few come in northern state.

2>Other languages
          Spoken by 60% Indians
          Cant be considered on same ground

3>English
          Spoken by 21% Indians as secondary language
If we will logically think what are other benefits for these 80% in learning English >>As most of the jobs available in India prefer English so English will increase job opportunity so one could think about learning it.
          I believe that with in 10 years this percentage will increase to 40%.

So English is the only language which could be accepted by whole country.
If you think that Hindi should be the national language then imagine yourself in this condition

If Telugu was spoken in 40% part and you were asked to learn this... ...........”

Quite good immediate reasoning! But even after taking the fact that English is the second or third language of 21 % Indians while Hindi is the first language of 41% Indians, it is quite obvious that Hindi is more eligible to be the national language than English, which is the least eligible choice as compared to any scheduled language. Don’t you agree? Then back go to the first paragraph.

The 40% figure is very optimistic and definitely no one expects the no. of native speakers of English to change much by then. Do you? Let us suppose it becomes the secondary or tertiary language of 100% percent Indians in say 40 years but its native speakers are not even 20 %. Then what? Just make a language your national language even if you can’t properly talk in that language (generally the case with second and third languages)? The world will really take a laugh on that day and we will cry in embarrassment. English isn’t and will not be eligible for such a prestigious and important status until we will be alive, saying the least.

English is not a language that could be accepted by whole country, at least not for a long enough time. Don’t think otherwise because if 25% people feeling left apart can protest, then so can 60% + people. And it is not the matter of which language you speak, it’s about which language is most spoken. Any patriot like you and me will not limit their thought upon the narrowness of linguism.

 

My conclusion: Hindi with a native speaker base of over 40% is the language which is the most widely understood throughout the country, its influence being manifold than the next language in line.  But still there are a significant amount of people who don’t understand or could use it. Making Hindi the national language now will be like stabbing the interests of those people, however, it is the language most eligible for the post. English on the other hand, has grown greatly as one of the subsidiary languages, but still has a longer way to go before it could be assimilated in the soul of India. English was given enormous hidden opportunities by the governments of India, while Hindi being the most popular language wasn’t given any important incentive by the governments to flourish, as was directed by the constitution. English unnecessarily now forms a formal part of Indian education (thanks to our government). It is spread by Christian missionaries. All these favours are not present for Hindi; still it manages to grow from census to census (as from 1991 to 2001), though marginally. Doesn’t it show the refusal of the populace towards English? No matter how many years pass, English has to go a very long way. So, there is no language currently eligible to be called as the language of the nation.

 If Hindi is to be given the status (I am so biased in favour of Hindi because of the relative ease with which it can be spread throughout the rest of the country and also because it is easier for Indians to learn Hindi than a foreign language as all Indian languages are sisters originated from Sanskrit), there is a need to popularise Hindi among the non-Hindi speaking areas with a clear word that Hindi will not be made the national language until more than 95% Indians can embrace it (so that when Hindi will be made the national language its opposers will be negligible). Also, while spreading Hindi in a non- Hindi speaking area, its regional language should be well respected and should also be given a chance to be propagated in other areas. The people of such areas should be made aware of the need for a national language. There should be free training in Hindi in such areas but with a clear word that learning one more language will not make anyone forget a previously learnt language, it’s just for knowledge. Nothing should be compulsory or imposed as it was in the past when the protests broke out. The govt. should try to make it lucrative by providing all higher education at all reputed institutes (though tough, but not impossible) stating that it is another official language as English is. It can also introduce it in schools but only as an option and not as a compulsion. All this can obviously be done most effectively by a good govt. but NGOs can also help.

Finally, let us allow the time pass and should wait for the time when a language will be known throughout India, and then only declare that as our national language.

 

 

Anand Anupam

IIIrd Year

Mineral Engineering

Indian School of Mines, Dhanbad

94301 87427

 

References:

[1] attached file 1 (languages in india........)

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_India

[3] attached file 2 (population of india..........)

[4] indiabudget.nic.in/es2006-07/chapt2007/tab97.pdf

[5] http://churumuri.wordpress.com/2010/03/16/the-times-of-india-google-and-english-speakers/

[6] http://www.mahesh.com/2009/03/29/only-13-of-existing-internet-users-in-india-prefer-to-read-in-english for details on the survey [7] attached file 3y (juxtconsult............)

[8] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-English-based_programming_languages

[9] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_with_official_status_in_India

[10] http://newswing.com/?page_id=262

To find your love for Hindi, you can also visit http://newswing.com/?page_id=262 .

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 2:33 AM, Anand Anupam <the.a...@gmail.com> wrote:

English books can be translated in Hindi. If only the govt. thinks so out of its busy schedule and plans so, after taking some funds out from its best utilised budget.

English is easier than Hindi ???
Ask a student of purely Hindi Medium. You can say this becoz of the bckgrnd of English which you got. And you will listen the opposite from almost every person in any sufficiently big part (representative part) of India.

The lesser number of alphabets does not help in making a language easier. More alphabets in Hindi means that you can write most words coming out of the mouth of anyone correctly.
English vocab is much richer in Hindi, i.e., it contains far more words than Hindi. Some words are also like sh*t, e.g., rendezvous, cliche, entrepreneur, etc.
English grammar is more complex and contains more exceptions than Hindi grammar.
Any ways, people call Hindi as an easily learnt language. Even if it's not true in general, it is true for all Indians as all Indian Languages are derived from Sanskrit and are therefore called sister languages.

You can also visit http://newswing.com/?page_id=262 to find your love for Hindi.

[Anand Anupam]

English books can be translated in Hindi. If only the govt. thinks so out of its busy schedule and plans so, after taking some funds out from its best utilised budget.

English is easier than Hindi ???
Ask a student of purely Hindi Medium. You can say this becoz of the bckgrnd of English which you got. And you will listen the opposite from almost every person in any sufficiently big part (representative part) of India.

The lesser number of alphabets does not help in making a language easier. More alphabets in Hindi means that you can write most words coming out of the mouth of anyone correctly.
English vocab is much richer in Hindi, i.e., it contains far more words than Hindi. Some words are also like sh*t, e.g., rendezvous, cliche, entrepreneur, etc.
English grammar is more complex and contains more exceptions than Hindi grammar.
Any ways, people call Hindi as an easily learnt language. Even if it's not true in general, it is true for all Indians as all Indian Languages are derived from Sanskrit and are therefore called sister languages.

You can also visit http://newswing.com/?page_id=262 to find your love for Hindi.

On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 1:39 AM, Chandan Kumar <chandan09...@gmail.com> wrote:

[abhinav tiwary]

there is a reason why people want to send their children to english medium schools.. the modern education was developed in western countries and to cope with the international standards we have to give the education in a language in which the books of international standard are available.... and unfortunately most of them are in english...

So, why didn't this happen in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Russia, and even France, Germany that most good books in English so lets teach in English

If you think that Hindi should be the national language then imagine yourself in this condition

If Telugu was spoken in 40% part and you were asked to learn this... by Badal

Well definitely, if telugu was in place of Hindi, let's suppose it was widely spoken  in south and i spoke angika (and not Hindi) and there was support of telugu in south, it was strong; freedom fighters supported it earlier; film industry in telugu largest; i might have been taught telugu, but for some politicians opposing on same ground as that in south now. But i think it will be easier and more likely then to accept telugu by north than it is today for south to accept Hindi because here people are not very united (so that opposition would not be strong), think they r inferior so that people from other places r respected and accepted, and as an example there was a teacher from Tamil Nadu who continually admittd that people from south can come and live here (Jharkhand) more easily than vice-versa.

[MehtaRahulC]

I am yet to find a problem which cant be solved by one of the three
methods

1. Let each one be on his own
2. Let majority decide
3. combination of above 2 methods

The language problem can be FULLY solved by above.

1. Majority parents in district decide which languages school will
fund and which ones it wont fund
2. Each parent will decide which language his own child will learn
3. The textbooks will be in the languages the majority parents decide
for his child
4. Each parent will decide which text his child will study
5. Majority citizens will decide official languages at National, State
and District Levels

In almost all cases, majority parents will decide to fund English and
local language, and may be Urdu if that district has many muslims and
they too want Urdu (most muslims do not want their kids to learn Urdu)

Each parent will prefer English for his kid. If he doesnt let him
prefer whichever language he wants.

The textbooks can be printed in multiple languages. MCQ based exams
can be taken in 2-4 languages.

So as far as education goes, language problem is amicably solved

===

As per official language, GoI should use English only, and is a group
of citizens want any other language, then that State should bear the
cost of translation. The State Govt and High Courts will use English
and language of the State, and if any person wants additional
language, then he has to bear the cost of translation or the State
Govt of any state can bear cost of translation.

So if UP Govt wants Hindi in Tamil Nadu HC, then they can bear the
cost of English-Hindi translation in TN HC. If the Hindi lovers of UP
want to bear this cost --- why should anyone in Gujarat or TN mind.
But cost of Hindi love should not be imposed on all Indians, who see
no value in Hindi.

.

[pankaj verma]

मेहता जी,
आप का यह कहना कि अधिकांश अभिभावक अंगेजी को चुनेंगे, परन्तु स्वेच्छा से नहीं, बल्कि मजबूरी में. आप उनको यह विकल्प दीजिये कि आप रोजगार को उनकी मातृभाषा में उपलब्ध कराएँगे, फिर देखिये. मैं अभिनव से पूर्णतया सहमत हूँ कि समस्या सिस्टम में है, और उसे सुधारने का सही तरीका सिस्टम को बदलना है, नाकि लोगो के सिस्टम के हिसाब से ढालना. और आपका यह कहना कि भारत सरकार को अंग्रेजी का ही प्रयोग करना चाहिए, परन्तु क्यूँ, क्या आप स्पष्ट करेंगे.

.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MyShaurya". Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/my-shaurya or visit http://www.myshaurya.org

To unsubscribe, reply using "remove me" as the subject.

[MehtaRahulC]

> के हिसाब से ढालना. और आपका यह कहना कि भारत सरकार को अंग्रेजी का ही प्रयोग
> करना चाहिए, परन्तु क्यूँ, क्या आप स्पष्ट करेंगे.

The Central Govt should use English only, and if a State wants Central
Govt documents to be punished in its language, then the State should
bear the cost of translation. Thats because people of TN may not want
to be taxed for Hindi translations' costs.

> आप का यह कहना कि अधिकांश अभिभावक अंगेजी को चुनेंगे, परन्तु स्वेच्छा से नहीं,
> बल्कि मजबूरी में. आप उनको यह विकल्प दीजिये कि आप रोजगार को उनकी मातृभाषा में
> उपलब्ध कराएँगे, फिर देखिये. मैं अभिनव से पूर्णतया सहमत हूँ कि समस्या सिस्टम
> में है, और उसे सुधारने का सही तरीका सिस्टम को बदलना है, नाकि लोगो के सिस्टम

As per "providing jobs in Hindi", Govt isnt God. eg Govt cant ask
Microsoft to publish all manual in Hindi, and since companies want
software developers like me to know MS manuals, the companies have no
choice but to (indirectly) demand English proficiency. Likewise, many
companies (like company where I work) depend heavily on exports and
Govt can force clients to talk in Hindi.

Btw, one proposal in my Right to Recall Party manifesto is that IIM
and all MCQ based exams must be taken in major Indian languages
(candidates will bear cost of translation), and interviews will be
taken in major Indian languages. The restriction is only for GoI
colleges, and not for private colleges. It is sad to see that Hindi-
lovers are still not forcing IIMA to take CAT in Indian languages.

[saurabh mittal]

Are u right?

English is foreign? This Democracy is foreign? This judiciary is foreign? The legislature is foreign? The constitution is foreign? Bicycle is foreign? Motorcycle is foreign? Computer is foreign? Windows is foreign?Engines are foreign?


"Adapting" things to own needs  means "acceptance". There is no question of " foreign" in it. We have adapted English to our own form and manner. So it should not be considered foreign any more after more than 100 years of familiarity.

Saurabh

[saurabh mittal]

I would like to add that a new language not only introduces a new medium... but new ideas. Anyone can realize this by just reading the translation of proverbs from any language. English is actually the child of German, the transformation into english infused the new language with massive ideas... it is with these growth of ideas that thinkers have created ideas like human rights, equality, liberty etc. These are all products of a multicultured, multi-centric ever evolving world. Without western influences, India would have been 565 "countries" with a social structure mocking human rights. I am not saying that its serendipitous that we were invaded, but it has had a terminating effect on our sick structure of casts and slavery.
                      A true language and a supreme culture needs no preservation, it is self sufficient, confident, banal, and self evolving. About hindi I would say that it has some very unique ideas of its own to offer the western world ( JAI HO makes it in english dictionary, to quote an example). Our culture is a soft culture, abolishing violence and materialistic garbage. seldom you find that so and so celebrity from western world has looked up to hindu philosophy ( Maddona ). To sum up I want to say that multiplicity is the order of nature. It dosent matter if you support english or hindi, both languages will influence each other and evolve. Those who do not realize this are ignorant and leftists like thakery. They feel the world has to confirm to their view to be right, they see the world as them and us and in turn draw up fences to protect something in-tangible , variable and transient. They see this as an oppertunity to imprint their choices on others. I seriously think that below this english hindi argument, the conformists are trying to impose their view on others to mask their ideological short coming and their lack of control.

 

[Anand Anupam]

@ Saurabh

It dosent matter if you support english or hindi, both languages will influence each other and evolve. Those who do not realize this are ignorant and leftists like thakery. They feel the world has to confirm to their view to be right, they see the world as them and us and in turn draw up fences to protect something in-tangible , variable and transient. They see this as an oppertunity to imprint their choices on others. I seriously think that below this english hindi argument, the conformists are trying to impose their view on others to mask their ideological short coming and their lack of control.

Nobody in today's free world can talk about abolishing a language. But acceptance of a language, to the extent to make it the national language creates serious impacts on the nation. This everyone has to believe. Isn't it?

So as Dheeraj Sir quoted Mahadevi Verma, it is very good to learn foreign languages, culture, knowledge, etc so that the evolution is complete, but you should not say that something and especially important things like national language selection should be done in foreign style, especially when if you have better options available.

Computers, Automobiles, Allopathy, etc things are foreign and help in doing good and are therefore accepted. But it doesn't mean that you should bring home every imported item and switch with something homemade without thinking on the adverse effects. National Language is one such thing and making English the national language will do us more good than harm today.

Sincerely,

--
Anand Anupam
VI Semester
DD Mineral Engg./ Material Tech.

Indian School of Mines, Dhanbad

Ph: +91 94301 87427

[Anand Anupam]

Errata: I correct the last line
 
In place of "National Language is one such thing and making English the national language will do us more good than harm today" ,

it is actually "National Language is one such thing and making English the national language will do us more harm than good today."

With Regret

[Anand Anupam]

Dear Supporters of English,

You should try to tell the 79% Indians, who have never been touched by English, and to the 100% Indians, who can't call it their tongue, that "English is our own language and lets make it our national language" and face them.

Lets not fool ourselves. How many of us can really "communicate" ourselves in English, in full entirety of the term. Can I? Can Mr. Saurabh? Can Mr. Rahul?.............

We should know the meaning between acceptance and "बेचारगी" (excuse me! I didn't know the english word for it ). Not everything on the platter is good for eating. Just try to think on it from the point of view of those who don't agree with you, that why they are against you? Consider their point.

Remember, some loonys want several parts of India into independent countries, some want all tax as their personal property, some want to establish their dynasty, all for their personal benefits. Should we give in to them? No. Then why to those who were born in Indian politics (and gained fruits which they are still enjoying) by raising their voice against an undiplomatic move by an overconfident govt. to make Hindi compulsory.

I will suggest you to go through history and see if all the supporters (and imposers) of Hindi were natives in Hindi.

Regards,
Anand Anupam

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MyShaurya". Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/my-shaurya or visit http://www.myshaurya.org

--

[DHEERAJ JHA]

Ideas are not a function of language...They can come out of ANYWHERE...in any form...in any language... YES..A true language & supreme culture needs no preservation..but dear...WHAT IF PEOPLE DONT CONSIDER THEIR CULTURE AS SUPREME?? & thats what I am asking...Consider HINDI as true..& when you do it, you automatically have respect for it & the desire to see it flourish... Keeping in mind, of course, that we should know ENGLISH too to interact with the world.. And lets not call KEEPING OUR VIEWS as IMPRINTING OUR CHOICES to mask our ideological shortcomings..Whatever be the viewpoints...Lets use LOGIC to prove it...We have different points of view..Lets discuss & hopefully reach a common conclusion!! --- On Tue, 6/4/10, saurabh mittal <saurabh....@gmail.com> wrote:

From: saurabh mittal <saurabh....@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [My-shaurya:570] "Because I am English Babu" To: my-sh...@googlegroups.com

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MyShaurya". Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/my-shaurya or visit http://www.myshaurya.org

[SHIVAM KESARI]

Hi ,
To this Hindi english debate i would like to say that " I want to learn English to speak Hindi!! ".
Jai hindi..

--
Shivam Kesari
2nd year, B.Tech Mining Engg.

Indian School of Mines, Dhanbad

Jharkhand, INDIA , 826004
( +91 9771177845)

[MehtaRahulC]

> You should try to tell the 79% Indians, who have never been touched by
> English, and to the 100% Indians, who can't call it their tongue, that
> "English is our own language and lets make it our national language" and
> face them.

We should enact procedures by which citizens can expel/replace
DIstrict Education Officer, State Education Minister and National
Education Minister. When that happens, education system will improve
and every kid and even adult will be find a good English teaching
classroom in his neighborhood. When these three replacement procedures
come, within 10-15 years, everyone will have working knowledge of
English.

> Lets not fool ourselves. How many of us can really "communicate" ourselves
> in English, in full entirety of the term. Can I? Can Mr. Saurabh? Can Mr.
> Rahul?.............

The State Govt should spend money to convert English document
published by Central Govt into State's language.

> Remember, some loonys want several parts of India into independent
> countries, some want all tax as their personal property

Please explain above statement. Who wants tax as personal property?

[Anand Anupam]

> Please explain above statement. Who wants tax as personal property?

Just a metaphor for the corrupt politicians, officials, etc. who make their bank balances out of the money paid by Indian tax payers and don't stop after one or two embezzlement of some crores of rupees, but keep on going to make the amount in thousands of crores.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MyShaurya". Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/my-shaurya or visit http://www.myshaurya.org

To unsubscribe, reply using "remove me" as the subject.

[pankaj verma]

सभी को,
इस मुद्दे पर बातें करते करते कई चीजें जो मेरे सामने आयी हैं, मैं उनको रखना चाहूँगा.
सबसे पहले मैं राहुल जी और अन्य अंग्रेजी के समर्थकों से कुछ बातें पूछना चाहूँगा -

"The Central Govt should use English only, and if a State wants Central Govt documents to be punished in its language, then the State should bear the cost of translation."

"Btw, one proposal in my Right to Recall Party manifesto is that IIM and all MCQ based exams must be taken in major Indian languages(candidates will bear cost of translation),"
आखिर यह ऐसे क्यूँ नहीं हो सकता है कि भारत सरकार अपने सारे काम हिंदी में करे और सभी राज्य स्तर की भाषाओं में उसका अनुवाद करे, और अगर आप जैसा कोई विदेश प्रेमी उसे अंग्रेजी में चाहे तो वह उसका खर्च वहन करे. मैं अपने व्यक्तिगत अनुभव से यह कह सकता हूँ, इस देश के अन्दर वो लोग जो अंग्रेजी के सिवा कुछ नहीं समझते हैं, वो इतने धनवान भी हैं की आसानी से खर्च को वहन कर सकेंगे.

"We should enact procedures by which citizens can expel/replace DIstrict Education Officer, State Education Minister and National Education Minister. When that happens, education system will improve and every kid and even adult will be find a good English teaching classroom in his neighborhood. When these three replacement procedures
come, within 10-15 years, everyone will have working knowledge of English."

भाई! अंग्रेजी सीखने की ऐसी भी क्या जरूरत है कि अंग्रेजी की जगह भारतीय भाषाओँ के प्रयोग से आपको इतनी ज्यादा नफरत है. और आपका यह कहना कि १०-१५ साल में सभी को अंग्रेजी का काम करने लायक ज्ञान हो जायेगा, तो मैं आपसे बस यही कहूँगा कि भाषा एक अभिव्यक्ति का माध्यम है, बजे के एक काम करने के औजार मात्र के अलावा. आखिर पूरे देश को क्यूँ अंग्रेजी सीखनी चाहिए? उस भाषा में हम काम क्यूँ न करें जो हमारी धड़कनों में बसती है.

"many companies (like company where I work) depend heavily on exports and Govt cant force clients to talk in Hindi."
आपकी जानकारी के लिए यह बता दूँ कि भारत का विश्व में निर्यात के क्षेत्र में प्रथम २० देशों में भी स्थान नहीं है. आखिर भारत से ऊपर के सारे देश बिना अंग्रेजी के कैसे भारत से ज्यादा निर्यात कर लेते हैं? और वैसे भी १६ सदी के उत्तरार्ध तक भारत विश्व के प्रथम दो निर्यातक देशों में से एक था, और उस वक़्त भी उसके ग्राहक भारतीय भाषा नहीं ही समझते होंगे. (मतलब, निर्यात अंग्रेजी का गुलाम नहीं है)

English is the basis of Indian Unity and Integrity

मेरे ख्याल से देश कि साझी संस्कृति है जो हमें एक साथ जोड़ती है,यह मानना कि एक ऐसी भाषा जिसे देश कि तीन - चौथाई जनता समझती भी न हो, पूरे देश को जोड़कर रखे हुए है, एक किस्म का भोलापन  ही है.

"क्यों उन लोगो पे हिंदी सिखने का बोझ डाला जाए

??"
क्या अंग्रेजी को सीखना अपने आप में एक बोझ नहीं है, और एक विदेशी भाषा को सीखना हिंदी को सीखने से ज्यादा ही मुश्किल है, कम नहीं.

"we may require Hindi as a national language but saying that we should convert education in Hindi rather than in English is illogical and insane."
अगर दुनिया के आधे देश (और लगभग सभी विकसित देश ) ऐसा कर सकते हैं तो हम क्यूँ नहीं, और सच में अगर इस देश के आप जैसे लोग जो अब तक अंग्रेजी सीख चुके हैं, यह भी नहीं कर सकते तो हमें एक विकसित देश बनने का ख्वाब देखना छोड़ देना चाहिए. यहाँ तक कि अमेरिका जैसा देश जिसे अंग्रेजीदा लोग सबसे ज्यादा विकसित मानते हैं, वह भी बाकी देशों के विज्ञान को अपनी भाषा में अनुवादित कराता है न कि अपने देश के लोगों को बचपन से बुढ़ापे तक फ्रेंच या जर्मन सीखने और इस्तेमाल करने की बात करता है. और यह बात इतिहास के अपने वक़्त एक सारे विकसित देशों पर लागू होती है. एक बात आप खुद ही सोचिये अगर सारा ज्ञान अपनी भाषा में ही उपलब्ध हो, तो देश का हर व्यक्ति उसको और आगे बढ़ाने की बात सोच सकता है, वरना सिर्फ २०%  लोगों के काम करने से तो कुछ भी नहीं होने वाला है.

और एक बात सभी के लिए, मैं चाहता हूँ कि इसका उत्तर अधिकांश लोग दें, "मेरा शौर्य" का उद्देश्य व्यवस्था को बदलना है, या फिर व्यवस्था ( या सिस्टम) के हिसाब से देश की जनता को बदलना. हम सत्ता को जनता के करीब लाना चाहते हैं, कि जनता को सत्ता के करीब?
हमको पहले ये सोचना चाहिए कि क्या बेहतर है, और उसके बाद यह कि वो कैसे किया जाना चाहिए. अगर हम इसकी विपरीत दिशा में सोचेंगे (कि क्या किया जा सकता है या नहीं, और किसी काम के मुश्किल लगने के बाद हार मान कर बैठ जाएँ), तब शायद हम कोई भी बदलाव नहीं ला सकेंगे.
कम से कम मेरा तो यही विचार है कि हमें उस जनता के लिए काम करना है, जोकि देश कि मिटटी से जुडी हुई है बजाय कि उनकी चिंता करने के जो अधिकांश जनता कि अज्ञानता का लाभ उठा रहे हैं.
और अंत में यही कहूँगा कि संघर्ष समझौता करने से कहीं बेहतर है.

धन्यवाद,
पंकज वर्मा,
छात्र, कम्प्यूटर साइंस एंड इंजीनीयरिंग विभाग,
आई.आई.टी. कानपुर.

[saurabh mittal]

I acknowledge Hindi as the mother tongue and very less persons will have English as their mother tongue. So importance of mother tongue cannot be denied. But is there any way in which we can popularize Hindi more?

2010/4/6 pankaj verma <pankaj...@gmail.com>

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MyShaurya". Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/my-shaurya or visit http://www.myshaurya.org

--

[MehtaRahulC]

Hi,

RM>> The Central Govt should use English only, and if a State wants
RM>> Central Govt documents to be punished in its language, then
RM>> the State should bear the cost of translation.". "Btw, one
RM>>proposal in my Right to Recall Party manifesto is that IIM and
RM>>all MCQ based exams must be taken in major Indian
RM>>languages(candidates will bear cost of translation),"*

PV> आखिर यह ऐसे क्यूँ नहीं हो सकता है कि भारत सरकार अपने सारे काम
हिंदी में करे
PV> और सभी राज्य स्तर की भाषाओं में उसका अनुवाद करे, और अगर आप जैसा

कोई विदेश

PV> प्रेमी उसे अंग्रेजी में चाहे तो वह उसका खर्च वहन करे. मैं अपने
व्यक्तिगत
PV> अनुभव से यह कह सकता हूँ, इस देश के अन्दर वो लोग जो अंग्रेजी के

सिवा कुछ नहीं

PV> समझते हैं, वो इतने धनवान भी हैं की आसानी से खर्च को वहन कर सकेंगे.

At least 40% to 60% of citizens in India oppose Hindi as National or
Official language of India.

And there is a good physical reason. If Central Govt decides Hindi as
official language, then people of North will have advantage over
people of South in recruitment as well as getting GoI contracts.
Whereas English removes all regional bias. The recruitment should only
involve language neutral subjects like Maths, Sciences and those who
are recruited should be giving training in English. So those coming
from poor families (who have less access to English schools) will not
suffer at the time of recruitment.

> भाई! अंग्रेजी सीखने की ऐसी भी क्या जरूरत है कि अंग्रेजी की जगह भारतीय भाषाओँ
> के प्रयोग से आपको इतनी ज्यादा नफरत है. और आपका यह कहना कि १०-१५ साल में सभी
> को अंग्रेजी का काम करने लायक ज्ञान हो जायेगा, तो मैं आपसे बस यही कहूँगा कि
> भाषा एक अभिव्यक्ति का माध्यम है, बजे के एक काम करने के औजार मात्र के अलावा.
> आखिर पूरे देश को क्यूँ अंग्रेजी सीखनी चाहिए? उस भाषा में हम काम क्यूँ न करें
> जो हमारी धड़कनों में बसती है.

Language is for communication only, because all scientific, medical
and technological information (textbooks, journals, magazines) is in
English and almost none in Indian languages. We need million doctors.
And we need millions of engineers to build weapons, bridges, machines
etc and the engineers need information and knowledge in one language.
The only options are English, French, Germany, Japanese etc. Hindi is
not even remotely close to English and English is miles ahead of other
languages.

> आपकी जानकारी के लिए यह बता दूँ कि भारत का विश्व में निर्यात के क्षेत्र में
> प्रथम २० देशों में भी स्थान नहीं है. आखिर भारत से ऊपर के सारे देश बिना
> अंग्रेजी के कैसे भारत से ज्यादा निर्यात कर लेते हैं? और वैसे भी १६ सदी के
> उत्तरार्ध तक भारत विश्व के प्रथम दो निर्यातक देशों में से एक था, और उस वक़्त
> भी उसके ग्राहक भारतीय भाषा नहीं ही समझते होंगे. (मतलब, निर्यात अंग्रेजी का
> गुलाम नहीं है)

The countries which leads hi-tech export is US and is English based.
China has less English, but thats because Mao had deployed army of
translators to convert English technological manuals etc into Chinese,
and this goes on. Japan too had army of translators since mid 1850s.
Korea also copied Mao on this and deployed army of translators. So
engineers in China, Japan, Korea had access to latest knowledge even
though they didnt know English. But Chinese , Japanese and Koreans too
are giving up against the flood of information that comes in English
and almost all Chinese , Korean and Japanese students are now learning
English. In fact. China has more English reading teenagers now than
India !! India did not deploy army of translators in 1950s and so
Hindi and Indian languages do not have any material in technology and
engineering and medicine.

My world is centered around medicine, engineering and science. I dont
give a damn about literature, history, social sciences and other
USELESS subjects. I couldnt care less for gaurav be Gujarat's Gaurav
or India's Gaurav. We need weapons to defend ourselves. And we need to
manufacture weapons. And we need trainned Engineers to manufacture
weapons. Now reason why I pick English over Hindi is because my goal
is manufacture US-class weapons in India in 10 years, and I think
English can do that, Hindi cant. (If you can show me how we can
millions of trained engineers in 10-15 years in Hindi, I have no love
for English. ) And if we dont manufacture weapons, then parts of India
will become slave of US and parts of India will be slave of China. So
I say --- lets pick a language (English) that enables us to
manufacture US class weapons in shortest time.

Weapons is one (and most important) thing. To that, we need to
manufacture 1000s of engineering commodities like microchips,
vehicles, motors etc. Which language can give us engineers capable of
manufacturing these goods in shortest time? My answer is English. And
we need million doctors in next few years. Which language can give us
experts in cancer, right kidney, left kidney, brain etc in shortest
time? Again, my take is English.

We dont live for language. Language exists to serve our needs. And I
pick the language which best serves our security , medcial etc needs.

.

> *"क्यों उन लोगो पे हिंदी सिखने का बोझ डाला जाए**??"
> *क्या अंग्रेजी को सीखना अपने आप में एक बोझ नहीं है, और एक विदेशी भाषा को

> सीखना हिंदी को सीखने से ज्यादा ही मुश्किल है, कम नहीं.

Let parent decide this, please.

[pankaj verma]

राहुल जी,

"If Central Govt decides Hindi as official language, then people of North will have advantage over people of South in recruitment as well as getting GoI contracts. Whereas English removes all regional bias."

अंग्रेजी का प्रयोग बिना किसी संदेह के मेट्रो में रहने वाले लोगों को बाकी देश के लोगों के ऊपर 'advantage' प्रदान करती है, और साथ ही साथ अमीरों और गरीबों के बीच ' bias' भी करती ही है.

"I dont give a damn about literature, history, social sciences and other USELESS subjects."

मेरे ख्याल से आप जिन बातों को व्यर्थ समझते हैं, मेरे लिए वो मेरी संस्कृति, मेरे समाज का एक हिस्सा हैं, और यहाँ पर शायद मैं आपसे अलग दूसरे ध्रुव पर खड़ा हूँ. अतः मैं आपसे यही कहूँगा कि मैं नहीं चाहूँगा कि मेरी सांस्कृतिक भावनाओं को और चोट पहुंचे, मैं गुज़ारिश करूँगा कि कम से कम मेरी और से इस विषय को समाप्त समझें.

धन्यवाद,
पंकज वर्मा.

[saurabh mittal]

discussions like this can find place in the annual magazine of my shaurya

2010/4/7 pankaj verma <pankaj...@gmail.com>

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MyShaurya". Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/my-shaurya or visit http://www.myshaurya.org

[rohit mishra]

Hi all,
Its a good discussion but one thing is sure that we need all regional
languages with Hindi and English also. Don't forget that English is
also a officially state language of our country.
So try to learn all languages ( as many as possible) and love all of
them otherwise you will be screwed up somewhere even in our country
also.

We have only one advantage over China and that is we know English better.

I am requesting Anshul that please end this discussion with some
conclusion as you have started this one.

Regards,
Rohit Mishra
My Shaurya

>> http://groups.google.com/group/my-shauryaor visit

>> http://www.myshaurya.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Saurabh Mittal
> B.Tech Mechanical Engineering
> IIIrd Year
> ISM Dhanbad
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "MyShaurya". Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/my-shaurya
> or visit http://www.myshaurya.org
>

[MehtaRahulC]

> अंग्रेजी का प्रयोग बिना किसी संदेह के मेट्रो में रहने वाले लोगों को बाकी देश
> के लोगों के ऊपर 'advantage' प्रदान करती है, और साथ ही साथ अमीरों और गरीबों
> के बीच ' bias' भी करती ही है.

No. As I said, the recruitment exams should involve language neutral
subjects like Maths, Science. This will not create any bias that would
favor rich over poor or would favor urbanites over rural. And
recruitment exams should be in many langauges. Once recruited, they
should be taught English so that they can conduct official business in
English.

Now poor have lesser English not because English language is difficult
to learn for poor and easier for rich. The reason why poor know less
English is because Govt schools dont teach English.And thats because
citizens dont have procedures to expel District Education Officer,
State Education Minister etc. IOW, we dont need to reduce use of
English to fix the rich vs poor issue. We need to empower poor so that
they can expel officers in education, dept. This will improve schools
and English education.

RM>> "I dont give a damn about literature, history, social sciences
RM>> and other USELESS subjects."
PV> मेरे ख्याल से आप जिन बातों को व्यर्थ समझते हैं, मेरे लिए वो मेरी
PV>संस्कृति, मेरे समाज का एक हिस्सा हैं, और यहाँ पर शायद मैं आपसे
PV>अलग दूसरे ध्रुव पर खड़ा हूँ. अतः मैं आपसे यही कहूँगा कि मैं नहीं
चाहूँगा
PV>कि मेरी सांस्कृतिक भावनाओं को और चोट पहुंचे, मैं गुज़ारिश करूँगा
कि
PV>कम से कम मेरी और से इस विषय को समाप्त समझें.

A useless thing is not bad. "Uselessness" is just a subjective
opinion. For example, I love Science Fiction movies and you might them
useless. Now question is whether Govt money and resources should be
spent on promoting literature, history, social sciences etc. This is
a question that is to be decided by "emotions" of majority, not just a
emotions few individuals at top in power. Now will majority of Indian
citizens, many of whom make barely Rs 50 a day, support Govt
expenditure in promoting History, Literature, Social Sciences etc? I
would live that for each citizen to decide on his own. But as far as I
think, citizens would want GoI to spend money on more important issues
like Military, Police, Courts, Education etc rather than spending
money in promoting Culture, Literature etc.

My point is : there are people like me who see nothing more useful in
one language over another. And there are people who love some
language. Now each one can spend his money way he likes. But what
should GoI spend money on? Well, GoI should go STRICTLY by the love of
majority. Does majority of India want GoI to spend 1000s of crores of
rupees in promoting Hindi? I guess not. And so GoI expenditure on
promotion of Hindi should stop ASAP. Of course, those who love Hindi
are always welcome to spend their own money in promoting Hindi, just
as I spend my money in promoting Science Fiction movies.

====

IMO, we should confine the discussion to WHAT should GoI do, not
whether Hindi is good for one's soul and mind or whether English is
better. And on this I say that GoI should prefer English over Hindi
because

1. At least 40%, and may be even 60% of citizens of India do not want
Hindi. eg all 5 southern states -- TN, Kerala, Andhra, KN, Orissa are
opposed to Hindi. And it is not just politicians, the opposition is
coming from citizens. North east is not so keen on Hindi and neigher
is WB. Thus a big chunk is opposed to making Hindi.

2. As far as lower class citizens go, I have seen utmost desire in
most parents to teach English to their kids. So if English is offered
as language, almost every kid will take it without any pressure.

3. The English language has more knowledge and information on subjects
like weapon design, engineering, science and medicine. And so more the
students know English, faster we will be able to have engineers,
doctors etc.

Now "love for Hindi" MUST be taken into account. But then emotions of
EVERY 72 crore voter matters equally.

.

[MehtaRahulC]

>  We have only one advantage over China and that is we know English better.

And we are losing that advantage as every day passes.

As of now, China has more English reading teenagers than India

China is teaching English to ALL its employee from peon to President.
And as teachers become available, every school, even rural schools are
making English compulsory for all students.

As far as language issue goes, even France, Germany, Japan etc
accepted "defeat" in 1960. And it was not due to defeat in WW2, but
sheer realization that one cant excel in technology without English.
In Germany, everyone knows English. Ditto with France. Everyone knows
English though they hate to speak in English. In Japan too, almost
every school student these days learns English.

[abhinav tiwary]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population

[Veerender, IIT Kanpur]

hi all,

Le us create millions of jobs and economic opportunities for people in their local economies strengthening local ecology, society, language and culture. Let us create hundreds of sustainable local innovation ecosystems across the country. These local ecosystems will create jobs and technology in local language and people will find incentives in working in their language. By this way local languages will be promoted,

Regarding position of Hindi vis-a-vis English, I would like to say that the question is not about Hindi or English. The question is all about giving recognition to ideas, knowledge and expressions of people. Hindi and hundreds of other Indian language express millions of people and people can't be ignored, so is their language. Regarding accepting an alien language like English. There is nothing bad if we have enough capability to absorb it as one of the hundreds of languages used in our country. Right now, we don't have the capacity to do it, so we are facing the bad effects of using this language.

Regarding knowledge systems, we don't need to train people in any particular language for manufacturing and other things. Visit any of the Indian factories other than service sector, u will find people working in their mother languages. It ranges from defense equipments to leather products. Many factories use English for documents, but they are of no use for workers as in their local translations are provided for workers. So, there is no point in saying that only English can provide employment.

I will discuss in length on this in July with more structured logic.

I would like to invite some of you who would like to work on language upliftment and related issues. I have some experiments with me like this I have done with some of my friends:

............................................

Teaching in Indian Languages is a must because only mother languages provide someone the broader kaleidoscope of imagination, organization of imagination into thoughts and communicating it to people around him/her.  If we bring any translated language like English in between then a lot of ideas, excitement and other things are lost.

If we want to replace English with Indian knowledge systems then we need to build our own knowledge systems. For example Chemical Nomenclature. I belong to a remote village in Bihar and have tried to interact many students in schools and colleges regarding their ease Chemical Nomenclature system. I found that a large section of students find it very difficult to deal with complex Greek and Latin names. The same happens with Biological Nomenclature or any standard form of knowledge without local expression. On basis of this observation, I with some of my friends and a faculty in Ranchi University have started a project to develop an Indian Chemical Nomenclature system. The effort was childish as we were not having any reference material and we were not using internet so much by that time. Our effort was:
Identify the names of elements, find an Indian replacement if existing. If not, coin a name with Indian touch. For example,  

Aluminum: Suhaxapara सुहक्षपरा सु comes from सुचालक meaning conductor: the objective behind emphasizing this property is its being substitute of copper in electrical industry; also copper is limited. ह comes from हलका meaning light; point to be noted is Aluminum is light and hence used in aviation industry. क्ष comes from क्षयरोधी as Aluminum is resistant to corrosion and hence a better substitute to Iron in many industries; also emphasizing corrosion means we are taking it as a grand challenge. परा comes from परावर्ती meaning reflective. Pure Aluminum is extremely reflective and here परा also refers to group identity of Aluminum as every group has its identity in this system. 

Similarly, we tried to do it for most of the elements and developed a 

framework to name compounds. I will soon make a soft copy of the 
whole research and mail it for your review. 

Similar kind of knowledge creation, standardization and dissemination 
is required in Indian languages; then only we can replace English as a

dominant language of expression of knowledge and science. And in this
whole process, even common people can be easily included. 

For example, we have thought of a national program for biological nomenclature,.

In this program, people across the country will be trained to identify and
study animals and plants around them. Universities, colleges, schools

and society will be actively engaged in it. Studies by people will be
supervised by experts. Information collected will be processed and

properly documented. On basis of these studies, animals and plants will
be named with duly accreditation to discoverers. If that species is out

of country, then we will first accept current scientific names but
slowly and gradually, we will send our teams to study them and generate

an Indian perspective of that knowledge.

Its benefits: It will have immense impact on society, our knowledge 

creation, organization and dissemination process, it will help us to 
protect our biodiversity, engage people in taking care ecology
around them and many more.


Primary and physical study of any animal or plant or any living body is not

difficult or expensive. Once we start, we can devise different methodologies.

The idea and methodology may not be clear now, but i will send some 
more mails regarding how I understand them.

If any of you are interested in these experiments then please respond. We will work together. 


Thanks and regards
veerender

 
  

On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 11:11 AM, abhinav tiwary <abh...@ismu.ac.in> wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MyShaurya". Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/my-shaurya or visit http://www.myshaurya.org

--
with regards
Veerender Kumar
IITKanpur
+91-9936335647
ve...@iitk.ac.in, vishwaj...@gmail.com

[MehtaRahulC]

> Teaching in Indian Languages is a must because only mother languages provide
> someone the broader kaleidoscope of imagination, organization of imagination

....

Why dont we let PARENTS decide which language they want his child to
learn.

For that matter, I attend Bharat Swabhiman Trust (of Baba Ramdevji)
meetings, and some people there say that all subjects should be taught
in Sanskrit (not Hindi, but Sanskrit). I say to all --- please let the
parent and only the parent and no one else decide.

[MehtaRahulC]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China

The primary-school curriculum consisted of Chinese, mathematics,
physical education, music, drawing, and elementary instruction in
nature, history, and geography, combined with practical work
experiences around the school compound. A general knowledge of
politics and moral training, which stressed love of the motherland,
love of the party, and love of the people (and previously love of
Chairman Mao), was another part of the curriculum. A foreign language,
>>>>>often English<<<<< , is introduced in about the third grade.
Chinese and mathematics accounted for about 60 percent of the
scheduled class time; natural science and social science accounted for
about 8 percent. Putonghua (common spoken language) was taught in
regular schools and pinyin romanization in lower grades and
kindergarten. The Ministry of Education required that all primary
schools offer courses on morality and ethics. Beginning in the fourth
grade, students usually had to perform productive labor two weeks per
semester to relate classwork with production experience in workshops
or on farms and relate it to academic study. Most schools had after-
hour activities at least one day per week to involve students in
recreation and community service.

===

IOW, most schools teach English starting from 3rd grade. And thats
because English teachers in China are still scarce. As number of
English teachers increase, they will probably make it from 2nd grade
and then from 1st.

The wikipedia link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population
also says that there are 300 million chinese who are learning
English.

Unless Govt schools and less expensive private schools start focusing
on English, China may overtake India in English as well.

[abhinav tiwary]

will china overtake India in no. of English speakers is in my view not a concern, and my best wishes to the Chinese. So far there are outsourcing jobs people in India will keep learning English. 

The wikipedia link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population
also says that there are 300 million chinese who are learning
English.

Unless Govt schools and less expensive private schools start focusing
on English, China may overtake India in English as well.

Please visit the link for citations. Also see data for Germany