{AD} My Opinion on MultiValue Modernization

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Bob Markowitz

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Jun 13, 2022, 12:10:28 PMJun 13
to Pick and MultiValue Databases
It's been rather quiet. Loaded question - any thoughts on MultiValue modernization and what it actually means? To me it means more than the addition of a “pretty face” to MV applications or APIs and EDIs to third party applications. It is a transformative process that will change the way a company operates and when done right leads to increased profitability and company growth.

In the early days of MV, computer programs were made up of two pieces - screen displays and business logic. MV applications emulated the internal business processes and they did it well.

Business processes have significantly changed. For example remember how order-entry used to be even 10 years ago and how it is today; if it is the same, boy is your company in trouble.  Applications must now also support customer/employee/partner experiences. All want to use the web and have native apps on their smartphones, tablets and desktop. 

The millions spent on MV business logic is salvageable and can be incorporated into apps created by the Evoke low-code platform focusing on current business processes. Low-code modernization allows the developer to create GUI interfaces at the same time.

Read the blog on application modernization, you might get some ideas. I know, ideas outside of our comfort zones makes our brains hurt!

keit...@gmail.com

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Jun 13, 2022, 3:35:21 PMJun 13
to mvd...@googlegroups.com

Bob,

 

As an application developer, provider and supporter for over 30 years, I sometimes am motivated to comment on development tools coming from 3rd parties in general terms.

 

In theory, the idea is simply wonderful.

 

Having been bitten by SB+ and the product that Raining Data/Rocket etc. launched/adopted/dropped many years ago ( so long I cannot even remember what it was called ), we decided to live with the tools provided with the database.  Granted, we do use AccuTerm and Wintegrate to “put lipstick on the bulldog” in terms of the presentation layer.

 

Here are the real life factors to be considered from our point of view:

 

  • Every layer of software/vendor adds another opportunity for additional failure points
  • Debugging those failures is labor intensive, expensive, and usually involves finger pointing/blame game between vendors of those layers, leaving us stuck in the middle
  • No one compensates us for that debugging and drama, not too mention what it can do to our customers who have people standing at their cash registers which are running our app
  • Market Space required integrations for things we don’t want to re-invent like credit card processing, signature capture, MS Windows,  and more already bring uncompensated debugging issues of their own.
  • In the highly unlikely event that AccuTerm or Wintegrate experiences some issue, it does not affect data integrity at the D3 or MV level
  • I applaud the work you do, and even with all things stated above,  I can certainly understand how a developer starting a brand new app from scratch would and probably should use such development tools.

 

Of course, being in the brick and mortar POS market space reduces the pressure to be web based for some of the same reasons stated above as they relate to ISP’s and failure points, 3rd parties etc.

 

We are experiencing some minor demand for web page integration as a result of the pandemic, but since we have been doing wholesale distributor data exchange with our retail stores since day one, many of the tools for such things are already in place.

 

I certainly wish you guys continued success and demand for your product.

 

 

Keith Grill

President

DBMS Inc.

318-635-0757 – office

318-572-3196 – cell

kgr...@comcast.net

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Will Johnson

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Jun 14, 2022, 2:34:17 PMJun 14
to Pick and MultiValue Databases
Keith could you describe in more detail how SB+ bit you?

Bob Markowitz

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Jun 14, 2022, 3:00:58 PMJun 14
to Pick and MultiValue Databases

Hi Keith (and Will) – thank you for responding. I have tried to “educate” our comrades on the direction of business apps for a while.

For those that do not know me, a quick review. I have been in the Pick marketplace since day 2. I worked at SMI in Chicago and we received Reality serial #6, oddly I was employee #6. SMI grew close to 150 people with most being Systems Analysts (remember that job) and Programmers. I have worked for the ultimate (forgive the pun) providers of Pick systems.

14 years after joining SMI we became a Pick licensee for the development of Pick on IBM mainframes. The product was sold to The Ultimate Corp. and I went with it. When Ultimate began having financial problems, I was lucky enough to join Sequoia. 10 years later when Sequoia was having financial issues, it was sold to GA, I went. GA began to have financial difficulties and I joined jBASE. jBASE morphed into BlueFinity! At BlueFinity we discovered a product we were developing was a low-code/no-code platform. It is called Evoke and it creates new apps as well as modernizing legacy applications for MultiValue and Oracle and SQL Server and... I have been in product marketing, training and sales.

I know how good MultiValue applications are and I know that unless the they transform into customer/employee/partner/market focused native and/or web apps they are running on borrowed time. MultiValue applications can become competitive again if they join the digital marketplace. I see what is happening in the mainstream software marketplace and the requirement for apps running on smartphones, tablets, watches and diverse operating environments; Android, iOS, Linux and Windows.

We are all aware that business processes have significantly changed in the last few years. Technology has exploded. MultiValue developers can easily take advantage of technology advances AND changes in customer/employee/partner/market behaviors. They cannot do it by putting lipstick on a bulldog!

I had a customer when I was with Sequoia in the subscription/service business. One of their customers used their order-entry service; the customer published a catalog. The Sequoia user’s offices were in a warehouse. When I first walked into those offices, the warehouse was filled with over a hundred order-entry clerks, they were on phones taking orders. Within two years most of the phones and clerks were gone. The warehouse was empty with the exception of a few customer-service representatives on phones resolving customer issues.

The company had outsourced a provider of web catalog order-entry applications (could not be done in Pick). Customers now entered their own orders on the web. The data was batch “EDIed” to the Pick system overnight and that was about 30 years ago. It was kinda like an early Amazon.

Today Amazon like apps can be built in WEEKS using Pick business logic from the legacy system.  It will take much longer to refactor the business logic from the Pick Basic/Python/Proc/Other code and to load the pictures and descriptions. It can be done incorporating modern Microsoft technologies supporting the MultiValue database. Of course, when I say use Evoke, the only low-code/no-code platform to support MultiValue I get…

Now in response to your real life factors:

  • Every layer of software/vendor adds another opportunity for additional failure points
    • Either we are very lucky or our design is very good – I go for good. We do not create failure points
  • Debugging those failures is labor intensive, expensive, and usually involves finger pointing/blame game between vendors of those layers, leaving us stuck in the middle
    • We create standard Microsoft Visual Studio projects. The projects are delivered to the developer’s computer. The projects are made up of JavaScript, C#, HTML5, CSS, more and Pick code, everything is standard. Debugging if required is simple plus it is very easy and fast to enhance deployed apps. No, you do not need to know how to use Visual Studio to create and deploy apps! Evoke creates designs that generates the Visual Studio projects. A click of a button generates deployable apps.
  • No one compensates us for that debugging and drama, not to mention what it can do to our customers who have people standing at their cash registers which are running our app
    • If there is less an opportunity for error, there is less an opportunity for people to stand around
  • Market Space required integrations for things we don’t want to re-invent like credit card processing, signature capture, MS Windows, and more already bring uncompensated debugging issues of their own.
    • Again, we don’t cause problems. And adding credit card processing is drag and drop. If a technology is supported by Microsoft (i.e., credit card processing, signature capture, 360° imaging with hotspots, etc.) can easily be added to an app.
  • In the highly unlikely event that AccuTerm or Wintegrate experiences some issue, it does not affect data integrity at the D3 or MV level
    • Either does Evoke generated apps
  • I applaud the work you do, and even with all things stated above, I can certainly understand how a developer starting a brand-new app from scratch would and probably should use such development tools.
    • Thank you, I do not believe you have ever attended a presentation. Please lemme know when you are available and we will “put on a show!”

My apologies for the Tony G. length of the posting and to Tony!

Eugene Klaus

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Jun 14, 2022, 6:16:27 PMJun 14
to mvd...@googlegroups.com
I am very interested in this position.

Skill Matrix:
• Skill Set Years of Exp Rating (1 to 10)
• UNIX 30 8+
• SOLARIS 25 5
• LINUX 20 7
• KERNEL 30 5
• Functional Prog 30 7+


Summary of Qualifications:

Experience in application development and staging, delivery.
Installation, configuring, maintaining databases, and supporting servers.
Develop relationships with co-workers, management, and Owners.
Network testing to verify connectivity and accuracy of Domains, and IP
addresses.
Document applications and systems using MS Office, MS Word, MS Excel.
Three years CPA Level IRS Individual 1040 tax report.
Billing System for ER Physicians Blue Cross and Medicare reporting.
Twelve Years Accounts Payable, Accounts Receivable, Inventory,
Payroll, Order Entry, General Ledger, State, and Federal Fuel Tax
reporting Pick Basic 12 years.
Specialized IBM training Business Continuity and Secure Backup 2 years
Five years NC programming Multi-Axis Drilling, Boring, Milling, and Grinding.

Full Legal Name.......................: Eugene Arthur Klaus, Jr.

LinkedIn:...https://www.linkedin.com/in/eugene-klaus-a44a8811
Current Location......................: 7302 109th Street
Flushing, Michigan 48433
Preferred email ID....................: <gene...@gmail.com>
Day/Evening phone numbers: (810) 444-9029
Work Authorization..................: United States Citizen

Minimum W2 rate.......................................< $50 per hour >
Preferred Pay Period:................................Weekly
Acceptable Pay Period:...........................Bi-Weekly
No Invoicing ie… Net 45 etc

Interview with 48-HOUR NOTICE.: 11 AM EST to 4 PM EST Tuesday thru Friday

Start date...................................: Immediately

Birth...........................................: 2/14
Last 4 SSN.................................: 6784

I am a Veteran.
I am seeking a local to Michigan position.



Respectfully,

Eugene Klaus
Proven Unix Linux Systems Engineer | Be kind to those you pass on the way
up, remember you will meet them on the way down.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/eugene-klaus-a44a8811
gene...@gmail.com / (810) 444-9029 Cell

On 6/14/22, 'Will Johnson' via Pick and MultiValue Databases
<mvd...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> Keith could you describe in more detail how SB+ bit you?
>
> On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 12:35:21 PM UTC-7 Keith Grill wrote:
>
>> Bob,
>>
>>
>>
>> As an application developer, provider and supporter for over 30 years, I
>> sometimes am motivated to comment on development tools coming from 3rd
>> parties in general terms.
>>
>>
>>
>> In theory, the idea is simply wonderful.
>>
>>
>>
>> Having been bitten by SB+ and the product that Raining Data/Rocket etc.
>> launched/adopted/dropped many years ago ( so long I cannot even remember
>> what it was called ), we decided to live with the tools provided with the
>>
>> database. Granted, we do use AccuTerm and Wintegrate to “put lipstick on
>>
>> the bulldog” in terms of the presentation layer.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here are the real life factors to be considered from our point of view:
>>
>>
>>
>> - Every layer of software/vendor adds another opportunity for
>> additional failure points
>> - Debugging those failures is labor intensive, expensive, and usually
>> involves finger pointing/blame game between vendors of those layers,
>> leaving us stuck in the middle
>> - No one compensates us for that debugging and drama, not too mention
>> what it can do to our customers who have people standing at their cash
>>
>> registers which are running our app
>> - Market Space required integrations for things we don’t want to
>> re-invent like credit card processing, signature capture, MS Windows,
>> and
>> more already bring uncompensated debugging issues of their own.
>> - In the highly unlikely event that AccuTerm or Wintegrate experiences
>>
>> some issue, it does not affect data integrity at the D3 or MV level
>> - I applaud the work you do, and even with all things stated above, I
>>
>> can certainly understand how a developer starting a brand new app from
>>
>> scratch would and probably should use such development tools.
>>
>>
>>
>> Of course, being in the brick and mortar POS market space reduces the
>> pressure to be web based for some of the same reasons stated above as they
>>
>> relate to ISP’s and failure points, 3rd parties etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> We are experiencing some minor demand for web page integration as a result
>>
>> of the pandemic, but since we have been doing wholesale distributor data
>> exchange with our retail stores since day one, many of the tools for such
>>
>> things are already in place.
>>
>>
>>
>> I certainly wish you guys continued success and demand for your product.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Keith Grill
>>
>> President
>>
>> DBMS Inc.
>>
>> 318-635-0757 <(318)%20635-0757> – office
>>
>> 318-572-3196 <(318)%20572-3196> – cell
>>
>> kgr...@comcast.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* mvd...@googlegroups.com <mvd...@googlegroups.com> *On Behalf Of
>> *Bob
>> Markowitz
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 13, 2022 11:10 AM
>> *To:* Pick and MultiValue Databases <mvd...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:* [mvdbms] {AD} My Opinion on MultiValue Modernization
>>
>>
>>
>> It's been rather quiet. Loaded question - any thoughts on MultiValue
>> modernization and what it actually means? To me it means more than the
>> addition of a “pretty face” to MV applications or APIs and EDIs to third
>> party applications. It is a transformative process that will change the
>> way
>> a company operates and when done right leads to increased profitability
>> and
>> company growth.
>>
>>
>>
>> In the early days of MV, computer programs were made up of two pieces -
>> screen displays and business logic. MV applications emulated the internal
>>
>> business processes and they did it well.
>>
>>
>>
>> Business processes have significantly changed. For example remember how
>> order-entry used to be even 10 years ago and how it is today; if it is the
>>
>> same, boy is your company in trouble. Applications must now also support
>>
>> customer/employee/partner experiences. All want to use the web and have
>> native apps on their smartphones, tablets and desktop.
>>
>>
>>
>> The millions spent on MV business logic is salvageable and can be
>> incorporated into apps created by the Evoke low-code platform focusing on
>>
>> current business processes. Low-code modernization allows the developer to
>>
>> create GUI interfaces at the same time.
>>
>>
>>
>> Read the blog on application modernization
>> <https://evoke.blog/2022/06/10/multivalue-legacy-application-modernization/>,
>>
>> you might get some ideas. I know, ideas outside of our comfort zones makes
>>
>> our brains hurt!
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to
>> the "Pick and MultiValue Databases" group.
>> To post, email to: mvd...@googlegroups.com
>> To unsubscribe, email to: mvdbms+un...@googlegroups.com
>> For more options, visit http://groups.google.com/group/mvdbms
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>
>> "Pick and MultiValue Databases" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>>
>> email to mvdbms+un...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mvdbms/56866935-853c-4b78-b46a-e1733509f99bn%40googlegroups.com
>>
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mvdbms/56866935-853c-4b78-b46a-e1733509f99bn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>
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> "Pick and MultiValue Databases" group.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mvdbms/4f638f63-9b44-4362-8f71-f85c41d771bfn%40googlegroups.com.
>


--
Respectfully,
Gene Klaus
Proven Unix Linux Systems Engineer | “How do you know if you can trust
someone until you take a chance and let them prove you right or
wrong?“ <ErnestHemingway>
https://www.linkedin.com/in/eugene-klaus-a44a8811
gene...@gmail.com / (810) 444-9029
ZZZ_your_answerTEN.doc

Rick Weiser

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Jun 16, 2022, 11:27:19 AMJun 16
to Pick and MultiValue Databases
Gene,

Why would ever post this much personal information on a web site ?!?!?!?

Rick

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