Are I-descriptors supported on non-Universe flavors of MVDB?
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Joe G
Apr 10, 2024, 2:50:35 PMApr 10
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Back when I was working at Interactive Systems, I became the king of the F-correlatives. I used them all the time because I could always get them to work. A-correlatives seemed to have some strange syntax at times that would cause strange results, so I ended up not using them much.
Fast forward forty years later, and things have changed. Although I still like F-correlatives, I don't think they're generally understood by most MVDB developers. A-correlatives are probably better, but I like the idea of the I-correlatives.
I was a big promoter of retiring Proc since everything it could do could be done by BASIC with the execute command. Why force people to learn a different language for menus, especially one with strange space-delimited input and output buffers?
For that same reason, I'm leaning towards making I-descriptors the standard dictionary for any projects I'm working on. I like the idea of keeping everything in the same language.
My question is, do I-descriptors work on the other flavors? Any advice would be appreciated.
Fast forward forty years later, and things have changed. Although I still like F-correlatives, I don't think they're generally understood by most MVDB developers. A-correlatives are probably better, but I like the idea of the I-correlatives.
I was a big promoter of retiring Proc since everything it could do could be done by BASIC with the execute command. Why force people to learn a different language for menus, especially one with strange space-delimited input and output buffers?
For that same reason, I'm leaning towards making I-descriptors the standard dictionary for any projects I'm working on. I like the idea of keeping everything in the same language.
My question is, do I-descriptors work on the other flavors? Any advice would be appreciated.
Dawn Wolthuis
Apr 10, 2024, 3:40:53 PMApr 10
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I-descriptors came about in the Prime Informer flavor. I know they work in UniData, UniVerse, Cache' MV, MV#, and OpenQM. I'm quite sure they do not work in D3. I'm sure others know more than I on this front, but that's off the top of my head. Best. --Dawn
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Joe Goldthwaite
Apr 10, 2024, 4:08:28 PMApr 10
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Hi Dawn,
That's helpful. The other flavors I'm personally interested in are OpenQM and maybe jBase. That would include ScarletDME. If OpenQM supports them then ScarletDME probably does also. I checked the documentation and it looks like they work in jBase also.
I think I'm going to push for using them exclusively if I can.
Thanks!
Dawn Wolthuis
Apr 10, 2024, 5:12:05 PMApr 10
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Yes, OpenQM was on my list and ScarletDME is a fork taken after it had the I-desc feature. I’m guessing jBASE has I-descs because some U2 folks have migrated, IIRC, but it was written more for Reality and D3 compatibility than PI, if I am recalling correctly. —Dawn
On Apr 10, 2024, at 4:08 PM, Joe Goldthwaite <j...@goldthwaites.com> wrote:
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Jim Idle
Apr 10, 2024, 6:04:21 PMApr 10
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TEMENOS migrated from Universe - jBASE is bug compatible with Universe. And there were plenty of bugs to emulate.
Jim
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Steven Martin Trimble
Apr 10, 2024, 6:31:32 PMApr 10
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Joe and any others interested, here is an html version of Scarlet documentation:
good luck and have fun!
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Jay LaBonte
Apr 10, 2024, 6:44:10 PMApr 10
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Unidata uses V-correlatives, but they are structured the same as an I-correlative. Unidata does support I-correlatives to a degree but they are a little funky at times.
Jay LaBonte
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Dawn Wolthuis
Apr 10, 2024, 7:00:59 PMApr 10
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I knew that if i misremembered then “someone” would catch it. Thanks Jim.
—Dawn
On Apr 10, 2024, at 6:04 PM, 'Jim Idle' via Pick and MultiValue Databases <mvd...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
TEMENOS migrated from Universe - jBASE is bug compatible with Universe. And there were plenty of bugs to emulate.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mvdbms/E81CC058-7F05-4D34-8BB3-ADA511CA543D%40temporal-wave.com.
Wols Lists
Apr 11, 2024, 2:46:07 AMApr 11
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On 10/04/2024 21:08, Joe Goldthwaite wrote:
> Hi Dawn,
>
> That's helpful. The other flavors I'm personally interested in are
> OpenQM and maybe jBase. That would include ScarletDME. If OpenQM
> supports them then ScarletDME probably does also. I checked the
> documentation and it looks like they work in jBase also.
>
> I think I'm going to push for using them exclusively if I can.
auiu QM and descendants belong to the "Pr1me clone" family - I'm sure
> Hi Dawn,
>
> That's helpful. The other flavors I'm personally interested in are
> OpenQM and maybe jBase. That would include ScarletDME. If OpenQM
> supports them then ScarletDME probably does also. I checked the
> documentation and it looks like they work in jBase also.
>
> I think I'm going to push for using them exclusively if I can.
Martin will correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought he started out
working for Pr1me on INFORMATION.
And INFORMATION (to all intents and purposes) did not have PROCS. Iirc
it was officially added in v8.0 and v8.1 was the last rev before Pr1me
went under.
I'd be surprised if D3 et al didn't have I-types. You can't claim to be
"compatible with most other versions" if you don't, and just as they
added PROCS to PI, surely it can't be that hard to add I-types to
"native Pick".
Cheers,
Wol
Wols Lists
Apr 11, 2024, 3:27:14 AMApr 11
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On 11/04/2024 07:46, Wols Lists wrote:
> I'd be surprised if D3 et al didn't have I-types. You can't claim to be
> "compatible with most other versions" if you don't, and just as they
> added PROCS to PI, surely it can't be that hard to add I-types to
> "native Pick".
I forgot to add - INFORMATION et al didn't have F- or A- correlatives.
> I'd be surprised if D3 et al didn't have I-types. You can't claim to be
> "compatible with most other versions" if you don't, and just as they
> added PROCS to PI, surely it can't be that hard to add I-types to
> "native Pick".
Likewise it didn't have Q-pointers.
So any decent clone should have all of these things, even if they're not
first class citizens (and why shouldn't they be).
The difference is that Pick was originally written to run on "bare
metal", hence the original versions being called the "Pick Operating
System". INFORMATION (and many later versions) were written to run on an
operating system (and also written with much hindsight!) so took a
rather different approach to things.
Cheers,
Wol
David Knight
Apr 16, 2024, 5:52:10 AMApr 16
to Pick and MultiValue Databases
Hi,
d3 does not support I-descriptors per-se.
It does have an i-descriptor-like feature which is to to call a DataBasic subroutine which allows one to do basically ANYTHING.
In respect of d3 then, the answer is No, but Yes. Or Yes, but No depending upon your point of view!
If you are looking for a single syntax with identical functionality that is supported across ALL flavours of MV the answer is No.
If you are asking if the concept of an I-descriptor is supported across all MV platforms, the answer is some do, some don't.
Not very helpful I'm afraid; as there is no single specification for a MV system. No ANSI [or other] 'standard'. Or if there is, it is only for the very core matters; not the frilly edges of the flavours. Shame, really.
HTH?
Cheers,
David
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