New Year's Wish

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Bob Markowitz

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Dec 31, 2021, 12:59:26 PM12/31/21
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May all Pickies and your families have a happy, healthy (stay away from Covid), and prosperous New Year! May there be Gestalt moments during the coming year. May we all thank the memory of Dick Pick and his team (Chandru and Philip Earl may be the last survivors) for giving us a lifetime careers! 

And when you are thinking about mobile app development and/or legacy application modernization please investigate Evoke. You knew I just had too!. 

Darren W

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Dec 31, 2021, 8:51:27 PM12/31/21
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Hi Bob (et al)

You almost had me fooled there - I almost didn't recognise you - good skills, nice twist !

Happy New Year to you and of course everyone else in the wonderful world of MV

Feliz ano novo (pt)
Feliz año nuevo (es) Bonne année (fr)

Cheers!
Darren - Cambridge, England - Ex Zellis/PROIV/Northgate Reality Technical Support

(After 25 loyal years of service I am sadly no longer working in MV but I am hooked and will never be that far away so always happy to help and advise on Reality/MV/Linux offline)

Bob Bartlett

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Jan 1, 2022, 2:50:09 PMJan 1
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Happy New Year Darren,
Sorry to hear about Zellis. I hope that you are able to land on your feet and that this is a good year for you.

Blessings,
Bob

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Darren Wragg

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Jan 1, 2022, 10:51:12 PMJan 1
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Cheers Bob - just to be clear before any misunderstandings or rumours start circulating, I wasn't laid off. 

I wasn't really able to make the most of my skills and enthusiasm and this worsened and became increasingly frustrating over time. I left of my own accord in order to find something more rewarding.

After a turbulent 2020, the IT job market in the UK was going crazy in the final quarter of 2021 and I received three separare job offers in the space of just two weeks. One of the offers was another MV job but I decided it was time to try something totally different for the very first time in my career. 

The COVID situation has made so many people re-evaluate where they would like to be and so many people have been changing jobs often into completely different roles. As another Bob (slightly more famous than you, perhaps) once said "The times they are a changing"...

I would not rule out a return to MV some time in the future but for now I have absolutely no regrets other than perhaps wishing I had made the jump sooner.

Take care.
Darren 

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Bob Bartlett

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Jan 2, 2022, 10:11:07 AMJan 2
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Cheers Darren,
This is great news. I'm glad that this was a career choice for you. 
I hope you have some kind of public-facing opportunity as it seemed to me that you had that rare combination of fantastic technical skills along with amazing people skills. 
Like you (and forgive me if I am reading between the lines a bit) I felt that the world of Reality had gotten a bit stagnant, but unlike you, it took my being laid off to make me look around a bit.
I hope for great things for you in your future endeavors, and the opportunity where you are valued, stretched, and well-compensated. 
All the best,
Bob

Dawn Wolthuis

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Jan 2, 2022, 10:59:03 AMJan 2
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Happy New Year to all!

The MV Family Tree is down to the companies that implement the languages MV BASIC and MV Query AND includes these in products that they market/sell/distribute for the development and ongoing support of software applications:

1. Rocket
2. Revelation
...

I somewhat think I know what is in the "..." but if you know anything I might not know (such as whether there is a company marketing/selling/delivering Reality outside of a software application, maybe even in the US??), clue me in. MV# is also in that "...". Anything else?

I am delighted by the Revelation, Reality, and MV# folks, while all of my MultiValue attention right now is as a Rocket customer. Rocket has done with PICK what InterSystems did with MUMPS in pulling them all under one umbrella. It doesn't sound like they plan to pull them into one single universe, but that might be the reality they pick as the evolution of the ultimate sequel if we were to mentor them with some information and the revelation that universe is one of the best product names, although hardest to google, in the cosmos.

Here's to a productive and fun 2022!

--Dawn

On Fri, Dec 31, 2021 at 12:59 PM Bob Markowitz <bob.ma...@bluefinity.com> wrote:
May all Pickies and your families have a happy, healthy (stay away from Covid), and prosperous New Year! May there be Gestalt moments during the coming year. May we all thank the memory of Dick Pick and his team (Chandru and Philip Earl may be the last survivors) for giving us a lifetime careers! 

And when you are thinking about mobile app development and/or legacy application modernization please investigate Evoke. You knew I just had too!. 

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Darren Wragg

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Jan 2, 2022, 12:13:30 PMJan 2
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Hi Dawn

I can hopefully help fill any gaps in knowledge regarding the more recent "Reality" situation - the Reality story gets particularly convoluted and confusing in the 2007 to 2022 timeline...

Reality users in North America and South America are not supported directly by NEC Corporation (previously Northgate PS)  - all US Reality support and license requests have to be routed via the principal USA VAR for Reality which is currently Zellis - a UK-based company with a USA presence in the form of their business PROIV Technology LLC.

The different parts of Northgate group of companies got separated out gradually over a period of time over the past 20 years. The HR/Payroll side of the business became a separate company - Northgate Arinso ("NGA HR").  Northgate Public Services ("NPS")  continued developing Reality and UK/Europe/Australia Reality end users were all supported by NPS but the USA/South American Reality customers were serviced via NGA HR as when Northgate and NGA HR separated, at the eleventh hour the Management suddenly realized that NPS didn't have a USA presence or indeed US bank account or support infrastructure suitable for looking after USA end users!  What to do?  Well, a VAR contract was very quickly thrown together and this is why NGA HR became the official VAR for Reality in the USA,  NGA had an existing US presence including PROIV Technology LLC - for marketing and supporting their 4th GL / Low-code environment - PROIV. 

NGA HR later sold off their UK / Ireland business to Bain Capital in 2018 and that UK business re-branded to "Zellis" in 2019.  Zellis/PROIV continue to be the USA VAR/Reseller of Reality to this day.  

NPS rebranded as NEC Software Solutions in 2021 - so "NEC" are the owners/developers of Reality and deal with the support of non-US Reality customers - primarily the UK and Australia.  No direct sales/support/license requests from USA end users are entertained by NEC - these continue to have to be directed via my ex-employer - Zellis/PROIV.

The most interesting twist in this long and boring story is that Bain Capital own Zellis/PROIV Technology.  Why is this interesting?  Well, Bain Capital also own Rocket Software - so that is an interesting complication and potential conflict of interest in the MV family tree.  I thought this was pretty weird back in 2018 when Bain acquired Rocket - but it is even more significant now that Rocket have acquired jBASE etc from Zumasys.   As of 2018, the USA VAR for Reality is owned by the same company that owns Reality's main MV competitor.

The MV story and MV family tree never gets boring - does it?!

Cheers & Beers,
Darren



I hope the above makes sense - if you require any clarification on any points, let me know.  

Cheers & beers!
Darren

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Dawn Wolthuis

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Jan 2, 2022, 1:58:57 PMJan 2
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Thanks Darren -- Although I had some of this story, you dotted some i's for me there. Delightful!

You are right that it is "never boring," at least to me. I'm happy to learn such gems as how Bain Capital has almost all of the U.S. PICK market, including from Rocket and for Reality, missing only Revelation (includes the database) and MV# (uses SQL Server or other databases but has all the languages/TCL/etc).

So, there is still a list of "databases" including jBASE, D3, UniData, UniVerse, Reality, and OpenInsight [any others I should add as current PICK databases?] but the list of vendors supplying the compiler, outside of opting for an app [once upon a time we could call software applications that, even if not mobile] has dwindled. Here's hoping that will be good for the software companies and applications relying on MV.

--Dawn

geneb

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Jan 3, 2022, 10:57:09 AMJan 3
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On Sun, 2 Jan 2022, Dawn Wolthuis wrote:
> You are right that it is "never boring," at least to me. I'm happy to learn
> such gems as how Bain Capital has almost all of the U.S. PICK market,
> including from Rocket and for Reality, missing only Revelation (includes
> the database) and MV# (uses SQL Server or other databases but has all the
> languages/TCL/etc).
>

Being happy about Bain dominating the Pick market is like being happy that
Josef Mengele is finally your family doctor.

g.


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http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
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Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Dawn Wolthuis

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Jan 3, 2022, 11:55:28 AMJan 3
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LOL. Ah, it's the delight of someone watching a soap opera, Gene. 

When I was studying the history of SQL and of the query language I knew as Inform and then UniQuery, I told my friend who watched All My Children that I was listening to even more entertaining stories than she was.

--Dawn

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Adt

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Jan 4, 2022, 6:33:38 AMJan 4
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Dawn,
As Darren quoted, Reality only gets user support from Zellis, owned by Bain Capital, all product ownership including licenses and any bug fixing is from NPS, now owned by NEC with ‘apparently’ Reality under new management.

As NPS/NEC ‘removed’ the remaining developers and then ‘apparently’ the last product support seems to have been forced out it might actually be a good thing if Rocket/Bain were to save Reality and provide at least some fixes if not future development. Reality was the first commercial Pick/MV product in 1973, even before Pick Systems was formed, so it would be a shame if it’s the first to pass…

Martin Phillips

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Jan 4, 2022, 6:50:00 AMJan 4
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Dawn wrote:

So, there is still a list of "databases" including jBASE, D3, UniData, UniVerse, Reality, and OpenInsight [any others I should add as current PICK databases?]

 

Don’t’ forget OpenQM.

 

 

Martin

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Marcus Rhodes

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Jan 4, 2022, 9:51:47 AMJan 4
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ZeoBase isn't there yet, but might worthy of encouragement and inclusion.

Bob Wyatt

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Jan 4, 2022, 11:00:36 AMJan 4
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Alan/Darren/Bob B.,

 

Reality 15.3, an evolution via patches for 15.1 and 15.2, was released 10 months ago…

Does that precede the demise of the Engineering Team at NPS, or does that serve as NEC’s first foray into Reality development with an outside engineering team, or ?

 

Bob Wyatt

Darren Wragg

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Jan 4, 2022, 11:54:57 AMJan 4
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Hi Bob W,

All the hardcore, long-serving Reality Engineering team from the 1990s/2000s (Nicol, Kevin, Dave etc) all "retired" prior to the release of Reality V15.3 - several years ago now - as explained by Alan T.  They left mid way through the V15.2 service packs.

V15.3 - a small service pack with some small new features but mostly just bug fixes was created and released by the then-surviving 2x UK Reality team members at NPS (now NEC) .One of these two people involved in V15.3 has subsequently left the company a few months ago - mid 2021. 

Last time I checked (October 2021) there was still one remaining UK Reality Developer at NEC (the person who did most of the dev for the fixes/enhancements within V15.3) but he has only been at NPS/NEC for about 8-10 years so he is unlikely to be a name that you've heard of.  NPS/NEC were apparently training up some off-shore Reality resource - but the person delivering the training was the same person who left mid 2021 so I don't know how far they got with that before they left.

I am not sure whether NEC have successfully recruited a replacement for this Senior NPS/NEC Reality Consultant who left most recently. NEC were actively recruiting for this role in September/October last year - I know this for sure as they approached me but I declined their offer in favor of the non-Pick role that I started November 1st.

Hope that helps?

Cheers
Darren


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Dawn Wolthuis

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Jan 4, 2022, 1:04:34 PMJan 4
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Wow, how did I leave out the BEST of them?!  Thanks Martin.  —Dawn

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 4, 2022, at 5:50 AM, Martin Phillips <mphi...@rocketsoftware.com> wrote:


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Dawn Wolthuis

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Jan 4, 2022, 1:08:20 PMJan 4
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Thanks for the added tidbits.

There are others that are in the “no longer released as separate products” category, such as Univision and Cache’ (for MV).

—Dawn

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On Jan 4, 2022, at 5:33 AM, Adt <alan13...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dawn,

Dawn Wolthuis

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Jan 4, 2022, 1:10:57 PMJan 4
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Yes, it is worthy of note, although it sounds like there are no plans to make it ready for prime time as a product. ScarletDME, in the other hand, which is a fork from OpenQM, is intended for real use IIRC (anyone using it in production)?

—Dawn 

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On Jan 4, 2022, at 8:51 AM, Marcus Rhodes <marcus.aure...@gmail.com> wrote:

ZeoBase isn't there yet, but might worthy of encouragement and inclusion.
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geneb

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Jan 4, 2022, 5:53:47 PMJan 4
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On Tue, 4 Jan 2022, Dawn Wolthuis wrote:

> Yes, it is worthy of note, although it sounds like there are no plans to
> make it ready for prime time as a product. ScarletDME, in the other
> hand, which is a fork from OpenQM, is intended for real use IIRC (anyone
> using it in production)?

I would hope so, but I don't know. :)

grant.h...@gmail.com

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Jan 5, 2022, 2:35:26 AMJan 5
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Hi Dawn,

All the best for 2022. I believe you should add MVsharp to list.

Regards

Grant

Adt

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Jan 5, 2022, 6:39:52 AMJan 5
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Bob W,
Reality 15.3 (with 4 new fixes) was compiled by as you put it, the Engineering Team, just before its demise…
… that’s compared with over 200 fixes/features with 15.2. According to the Reality website there’s been no product fixes or new features since March 1st, 2021 https://reality.necsws.com/latest_updates

From what I gather there has been ‘someone’ employed as customer support to help with issues seen but apparently no fixes yet. With no more new features planned, which was included as a reason my position was declared redundant, hopefully, few further bugs will be found - e.g. 15.2 is a month away from being 6 years old and 15.3 was 11 months ago. So Reality is likely to remain stable unless significant low level changes are made to underlying operating systems still in use - AIX, Linux, Solaris and Windows. I’d also guess most new bugs seen can ‘probably’ be worked around but that’s a decision that obviously led to the, as you put it, demise of the Engineering Team.

I really hope Reality and all its customers and users can continue as they need to…
… the efforts of many folk since its first commercial release in 1973 certainly means it deserves to.

If anyone has any information on fixes made available after V15.1.0.0410, which is 15.3, perhaps they could share?

Marcus Rhodes

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Jan 5, 2022, 11:19:22 AMJan 5
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I use it for my personal systems, and to teach others (back when I used to be able to organize classes), so ... kinda 'production'?  I'd love a newer version.  Any plans for that?

Marcus Rhodes

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Jan 5, 2022, 11:21:27 AMJan 5
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Does anyone have a list of clients still using Reality?  It'd be a shame to let this product wither on the vine the way UniVision did, so, if the customer base is still there, maybe we could organize a team of caretakers.  Would the owner allow the code base to pass into the public domain?  So many questions.

Chris Long

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Jan 5, 2022, 11:36:30 AMJan 5
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Marcus,

 

No list, but RA Services, Steel Services (maybe), and Patient First are a few.  There used to be a list on Pickwiki, I think. 

 

Chris Long

RA Services IT

 

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chandru murthi

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Jan 5, 2022, 1:58:44 PMJan 5
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Very interesting, Dawn. With the apparent consolidation of like-minded implementations, maybe they'll buy Revelation (if it's still called that,) and rename the entire shebang "PICK DATABASE SOLUTIONS". I'm sure Zion will not sue.

Happy New Year to all, and let's hope 2022 has some good news and normalcy for us.

Chandru

Neil Pratt

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Jan 5, 2022, 3:13:44 PMJan 5
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Thanks Bob, 

Hope you and yours have a great and prosperous 2022 as well as all my Pick friends and their families. I look back with nostalgia on 36 years of PICKing away. I also am thnkful for Dick and his team for giving me the opportunity to work at something I enjoy and which also helps pay the rent and put food on my table.

BTW: I've been called a PICK Dinosaur,  which I initially found annoying, until I thought to myself. "If I'm going to be a Dinosaur then I chose to be a T-Rex..." :) 

Dawn Wolthuis

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Jan 5, 2022, 7:28:48 PMJan 5
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Happy New Year Grant!  I had written “databases” for that list and had MVsharp (inaccurately written as MV#) on a list of MV BASIC and other MV-related language compilers. If we abstract it beyond the database, yes, yes, MVsharp is another implementation of PICK, one that runs on other databases, such as SQL Server.

—Dawn

Typed on a mobile keyboard

On Jan 5, 2022, at 1:35 AM, grant.h...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Dawn,
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Rob Allen

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Jan 26, 2022, 4:54:50 PMJan 26
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Thanks for this history! I've never known what happened to Northgate. 

I work for the other company that has Reality in North America - CDK Global (formerly the Dealer Services division of ADP; spun off as a separate company in 2014). Back in the 1980s we bought the right to our own version of Reality (based on RealityX version 2) and we still have it running in the background on about 5,000 Linux machines. 

On Sunday, January 2, 2022 at 9:13:30 AM UTC-8 Darren W wrote:

Darren Wragg

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Jan 26, 2022, 5:13:03 PMJan 26
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Ah, yes, Cora.  I am aware of Cora and indeed ADP/CDK as I provided support to CDK in my previous role and also remember hearing about the old days of Cora/ADP/Reality with Nicol before he retired.

Hollywood should make a (okay, rather geeky) movie about the history of MultiValue and all its twists and turns over the years. Those outside of MV won't be interested at all but the rest of us would enjoy a fascinating rollercoaster of a story.

Darren

Bob Wyatt

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Jan 26, 2022, 7:51:22 PMJan 26
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In the late 70’s/early 80’s working as a field engineer with Microdata, ADP sites were “different”.

The first ADP site I had was running ADP’s-altered Reality (RealityX wasn’t born yet).

If the FILE-SAVE tape would not boot the server, we couldn’t use a SYS-GEN to boot it.

No USB ports or thumb drives yet… it made life a little more interesting if the system wouldn’t boot off available media.

And we couldn’t load ATP to test the system either, IIRC. ABS differences.

 

Bob Wyatt

 

From: mvd...@googlegroups.com <mvd...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Darren Wragg
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2022 5:13 PM
To: mvd...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [mvdbms] New Year's Wish

 

Ah, yes, Cora.  I am aware of Cora and indeed ADP/CDK as I provided support to CDK in my previous role and also remember hearing about the old days of Cora/ADP/Reality with Nicol before he retired.

Ashley Chapman

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Jan 27, 2022, 5:54:33 PMJan 27
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A movie!  What a great idea!  There are (allegedly) rumours of various slush funds , yachts,  drug-fuelled parties and loose morals.  I'm thinking of something that would eclipse the somewhat tame Wolf of Wall Street.  

Know any good writers? ;)

Ashley

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