Odd notation

[Richard Yates]

Does anyone know anything about this notation? I t is from about 1500 but is unlike any chant or mensural notation that I am familiar with. What is it and do you know of any resources for interpreting it?

[John Keller]

Hi Richard,

You probably know more than me but ...

It has a 5 line stave with the C clef on middle line and F clef on the bottom line. I think the diamond notes are short . 

There is an example of the song Hic est vere martir on YouTube here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT5Idy1CC5I

Does the google search here shed light?

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=medieval+music+notation+examples

Let us know if you find out more!

John

On 10 May 2025, at 7:01 am, Richard Yates <raya...@gmail.com> wrote:

Does anyone know anything about this notation? I t is from about 1500 but is unlike any chant or mensural notation that I am familiar with. What is it and do you know of any resources for interpreting it?

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[Ian Dey]

Perhaps you could try Thomas Kelly’s book on the development of notation in the medieval period.

Kelly, Thomas Forrest. Capturing Music – The Story of Notation. W.W. Norton 2014. 

On 9 May 2025, at 22:01, Richard Yates <raya...@gmail.com> wrote:

Does anyone know anything about this notation? I t is from about 1500 but is unlike any chant or mensural notation that I am familiar with. What is it and do you know of any resources for interpreting it?

[Richard Yates]

Thanks, John.  You are correct about the clef. And it is unusual in that it combines the indicators from C clefs and F clefs. By experimenting I was able to work out that, in fact, ALL the notes are semibreves, so the odd mushroom-shaped ones are ligatures showing more than one note on a syllable.  I just don't know if this format is specific to the particular copyist or is used elsewhere, and if it is named and explained.

Thanks, Ian, for the tip about Thomas Kelly. I see that he has published several books that may have the answer. I have ordered "Capturing Music."

[Waller Dominique]

Hi Richard,

I've had a look into the Handbuch der Notationkunde, vol. 1, 1913, by Johannes Wolf. Page 127 and 165, I find examples that match yours : same period, five lines, two clefs, "mushroom-shaped" neumes as you call them... But, as I don't read German, I can't tell you more. The reprint of this old book is available on Amazon if you want it.  It's 490 pages long and very exhaustive. Dominique

envoyé : 10 mai 2025 à 13:00
de : Richard Yates <raya...@gmail.com>
à : The Music Notation Project | Forum <musicn...@googlegroups.com>
objet : Re: [MNP] Odd notation

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/musicnotation/74e9be29-7195-4cd3-adfd-4048f8d09574n%40googlegroups.com.

[Richard Yates]

Hi Dominique, Thanks so much for the research. I will look into it.