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Ben,
[Please forgive spurious Capital Letters which are added by Windows.]
I have some comments on points 4 and 11.
4. RE group boundaries vs. measure boundaries.
I often sign with the tag line:
“Music is poetry; why print it as prose?”
My motivation for notation reform is to make the music more MUSICALLY intelligible.
This starts with form, or phrasing, which in songs or hymns corresponds to lyric boundaries.
I believe the simple act of printing the music in lines that match the phrase breaks, like poetry,
Does much to aid interpretation, memory, an understanding of similarities and contrasts among the parts,
Even clues as to where to expect chord changes.
I have found some very expensive professional notation software makes a very difficult job of splitting lines between measures;
That difficulty is carried over into XML, perhaps because XML was invented by the same people.
I have found the free, open-source system Lilypond is much more amenable to section breaks within measures.
I use it all the time to print my own scores as “poetry.”
10. RE shape notes with arbitrary symbols.
I believe in shape notes. I don’t believe in “arbitrary.” So I have offered a shape note system, Chromatonnetz,
that is “isomorphic”, “key-neutral”, and I believe systematic rather than arbitrary:
themsel ChromaTonnetz by Joe Austin - The Music Notation Project
The name comes from Euler’s “tonnetz” or tone-network on which it is based.
That said, I also have come to believe that the problems with notation actually start with the IDEA of notation,
That is, notation as a substitute for sound, or the idea or memory of sound,
Commonly referred to as “performing by ear”.
But let us not focus on problems, but on successes.
We want worshippers to sing praises and petitions to God.
(And perhaps sing on other occasions as well, but as you point out,
Church is about the only place non-musicians sing in public these days.)
It would be a delight to the ears if congregations could sing in harmony,
But at least we would like to sing in time and in tune.
So my questions:
If Yes to these questions, then you should have a sale.
If No, then the other factors may be more excuses than reasons; it’s difficult to overcome emotion with reason.
The Gospels themselves outline a successful promotion strategy:
start with a “ mustard seed” or a bit of “ “leaven” in a few congregations.
Let the advantages of your system spread by word (or song) of mouth.
Others will judge the system by its fruits.
Joe Austin aka DrTechDaddy
“Music is poetry;
Why print it as prose?”
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On Feb 13, 2021, at 10:22 PM, drtec...@gmail.com wrote:This starts with form, or phrasing, which in songs or hymns corresponds to lyric boundaries.I believe the simple act of printing the music in lines that match the phrase breaks, like poetry,Does much to aid interpretation, memory, an understanding of similarities and contrasts among the parts,
I have found the free, open-source system Lilypond is much more amenable to section breaks within measures.
10. RE shape notes with arbitrary symbols.I believe in shape notes. I don’t believe in “arbitrary.” So I have offered a shape note system, Chromatonnetz,
that is “isomorphic”, “key-neutral”, and I believe systematic rather than arbitrary:
themsel ChromaTonnetz by Joe Austin - The Music Notation ProjectThe name comes from Euler’s “tonnetz” or tone-network on which it is based.
That said, I also have come to believe that the problems with notation actually start with the IDEA of notation,That is, notation as a substitute for sound, or the idea or memory of sound,Commonly referred to as “performing by ear”.But let us not focus on problems, but on successes.
We want worshippers to sing praises and petitions to God.
(And perhaps sing on other occasions as well, but as you point out,
Church is about the only place non-musicians sing in public these days.)It would be a delight to the ears if congregations could sing in harmony,But at least we would like to sing in time and in tune.
So my questions:
- Does the congregation want to sing?
- Does the music director want to lead the congregation in singing?
- Do the band and instrumentalists and choir want to accompany the cxongregation in singing,
or do they want to be the star of the show themselves?
If Yes to these questions, then you should have a sale.
I wish the situation were that simple. I thought it was when I started. But worship leaders underestimate the impact of failure, and overestimate their participation rates by a few dozen percent based on a few factors:
If No, then the other factors may be more excuses than reasons; it’s difficult to overcome emotion with reason.
The Gospels themselves outline a successful promotion strategy:start with a “ mustard seed” or a bit of “ “leaven” in a few congregations.
Let the advantages of your system spread by word (or song) of mouth.
Others will judge the system by its fruits.
On Feb 14, 2021, at 1:06 AM, 'Benjamin Spratling' via The Music Notation Project | Forum <musicn...@googlegroups.com> wrote:1) harmony, defined as the different notes sung at the same time for different singers, but with nearly identical rhythms or pitches
If Yes to these questions, then you should have a sale.
I’m sure there are other obstacles to adoption of a new music notation that I have forgotten, or not encountered or understood or accurately reflected. If you know of any more, let me know.
On Feb 15, 2021, at 1:26 PM, Musical Supersystem <mtall...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 1:16 PM 'Benjamin Spratling' via The Music Notation Project | Forum <musicn...@googlegroups.com> wrote:I’m sure there are other obstacles to adoption of a new music notation that I have forgotten, or not encountered or understood or accurately reflected. If you know of any more, let me know.Right, there are all sorts of reasons, sometimes I have also been tempted to list them, some may be common to all proposals some might be specific to a certain proposal.Regarding your proposal, a few come to mind.
x1- Proponents claims are exaggerated, if the magic they claim were true,
in one way or another (sooner or later) it will be used, because anyone would appreciate singing unknown-music from a score while skipping what it takes to achieve that.
Your spectacular sight reading claims should raise a flag or even strike a nerve on anyone like me who has spent significant time trying to achieve it, while experimenting all sorts of notations.
I agree such graphical cue is of additional help in the process of singing new music specially in the environment you describe, (a leading singer, projected lyrics, musical instruments and others singing around you), sight reading data coming out of that environment does not seem valuable to me, there are better ways to find out if graphics produce sight reading magic.
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On Feb 15, 2021, at 6:25 PM, John Keller <jko...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:Hi Ben,I enjoyed listening and watching your hymns on https://www.singaccord.comIt seemed very intuitive and impressive.But on your YouTube channel all i could see were testimonials.
Why no more hymns?
I was interested to work out the logic of the background ‘stave'.
All hymns had the keynote in the middle of the vocal range except one with the doh at the bottom.
Doh is always a line; me and soh a band (space)?
But each octave the ‘colour' swaps?
How do you notate minor songs? (Or are there none in worship music?)
Does B/ mean B flat?
Are some songs not in the key indicated?
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It seems that "so" (sol) lies in an uncolored band when above the tonic (which I think is always on a line), but in at least one video "so" lies in a colored band when below the tonic, which I found puzzling.
As you go up to a line, it’s a half step up; up to a bar it’s a whole step up.
On Feb 15, 2021, at 7:03 PM, Douglas Keislar <douglas...@gmail.com> wrote:Hi Ben,I, too, watched with interest some of the videos on your site. Like John, I'd be interested in an actual explanation of the "staff." It seems that "so" (sol) lies in an uncolored band when above the tonic (which I think is always on a line), but in at least one video "so" lies in a colored band when below the tonic, which I found puzzling.
And perhaps I'm confused, but it seemed that some videos were actually in the same key despite having different apparent key names at the beginning of the notation.
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On Feb 15, 2021, at 7:14 PM, Douglas Keislar <douglas...@gmail.com> wrote:It seems that "so" (sol) lies in an uncolored band when above the tonic (which I think is always on a line), but in at least one video "so" lies in a colored band when below the tonic, which I found puzzling.I see now that that fact is explained by your answer to John:As you go up to a line, it’s a half step up; up to a bar it’s a whole step up.There has been research showing that non-musicians don't really distinguish between the size of a half step and that of a whole step; they just hear that something is the next note in the scale. So perhaps using a line to indicate a half step isn't so crucial (and, by extension, perhaps having the same coloring in each octave would be helpful).
Howdy Musical Supersystem,
When you say “your” in this last sentence, are you speaking to “me”, the author of the last quote, and apparent intended recipient of the last paragraph, or the the original poster?
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On Feb 16, 2021, at 3:23 AM, John Keller <jko...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
I don’t get why you say doh is the same colour in each octave.
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it looks like carefully drafted to say nothing, what is the value of that, what is its importance?
On Feb 16, 2021, at 1:27 PM, Musical Supersystem <mtall...@gmail.com> wrote:
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I’m not entirely sure what you meant by “sight-sing”, but in my gut it feels like a 96/96 rule, and I wouldn’t try for that. But yes, the goal here is non-trained singers singing along to new songs the first time - to their level of musical skill.
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On Feb 16, 2021, at 8:37 PM, Musical Supersystem <mtall...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> But it is a complete waste of time and it might work against your project the unnecessary criticism of the conventional notation for a lot of reasons, but specially because the problem oriented presentation approach has totally failed when it comes to music notation reforms or alternatives, you should move to a solution oriented presentation though it might require changing your mind set.
I’m curious, which one of my “criticisms” of “conventional notation” did you find to be “unnecessary”?
> you should move to a solution oriented presentation
Do you mean, my email in here? Or my website where I show demos and testimonials?
> though it might require changing your mind set.
If you have any references to books or trainings on how to do that, please let me know. I’ve read 41 books on business, marketting, advertising and sales in the last few years, yet I still feel like I don’t have a good grasp on it.
-Ben
Sent from my iPhone.
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