Klavarskribo

[Anthony Gregory]

Of all the alternative notations I have read about, I firmly believe that the only really feasible one is Klavarskribo. There are two, maybe three Klavarskribo writing programs, all of which work well on PCs, but there are none that work on the iPad. Could the organizations promoting Klavarskribo please remedy this?

[Paul Morris]

On Nov 3, 2013, at 3:18 AM, Anthony Gregory <tg38...@gmail.com> wrote:

> There are two, maybe three Klavarskribo writing programs, all of which work well on PCs, but there are none that work on the iPad. Could the organizations promoting Klavarskribo please remedy this?

Hi Anthony,

Well, it's too bad that apple charges $100 a year for the privilege of writing apps for their devices:
https://developer.apple.com/programs/ios/

I imagine that would be a deterrent in this case. Better to skip the entry fee and write an HTML5 web app that could run in any browser on any device. Maybe by modifying VexFlow? http://vexflow.com/

-Paul

[Joseph Austin]

So, Paul, are you pushing VexFlow over Lilypond?
Have you tried programming in it yet?
BTW, is HTML5 capable of playing MIDI files or real-time synthesis from a remote keyboard?

Joe Austin

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[Joseph Austin]

Anthony,
Have you tried sending your request to the Klavarskribo folks:

http://www.klavarskribo.nl/
http://klavarskribo.com/

J Austin

On Nov 3, 2013, at 3:18 AM, Anthony Gregory wrote:

> Of all the alternative notations I have read about, I firmly believe that the only really feasible one is Klavarskribo. There are two, maybe three Klavarskribo writing programs, all of which work well on PCs, but there are none that work on the iPad. Could the organizations promoting Klavarskribo please remedy this?
>

[Paul Morris]

On Nov 3, 2013, at 6:52 PM, Joseph Austin <drtec...@gmail.com> wrote:

> So, Paul, are you pushing VexFlow over Lilypond?
> Have you tried programming in it yet?
> BTW, is HTML5 capable of playing MIDI files or real-time synthesis from a remote keyboard?

Hi Joe, I'm still into LilyPond, but if the goal is tablets and other devices, it seems to me the quickest and simplest route is a web app. Also, I would guess that VexFlow might be easier to adapt to a vertical notation system like Klavar, since it's not as complex (or complete...) as LilyPond.

But I haven't actually done anything with VexFlow besides keep an eye on it.

I think MIDI in HTML5 has been proposed, but nothing yet. Maybe some day...
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2012/05/midi-in-the-browser-html5-midi-document-up-for-review-audio-improving-too/

Cheers,
-Paul

[Peter Jackson]

 

 

 

Hi Anthony! Nice to see a fellow enthusiast singing the praises of Klavarskribo. You will be glad to see a double page spread in the Sept/Oct 2013 edition of International Piano devoted to Klavar. The Jan/Feb edition will carry my long response. Klavar has taken off in China specially in Beijing (www.klavar.com.cn), Kunming and Hong Kong where currently over 50 students at the Polytechnic University are taking a seven week course. KlavarWriter is a great writing program that uses an electronic piano. I have transcribed over 2,000 pieces using it. I would appreciate comments on my book Learning the Intervals. It is a free download at: http://www.klavarmusic.org/freedownloads/batch1/07~Minor%20Thirds-p1.pdf

Peter S Jackson

Director

Klavar Music Foundation of GB

On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 4:18 PM, Anthony Gregory <tg38...@gmail.com> wrote:

Of all the alternative notations I have read about, I firmly believe that the only really feasible one is Klavarskribo. There are two, maybe three Klavarskribo writing programs, all of which work well on PCs, but there are none that work on the iPad. Could the organizations promoting Klavarskribo please remedy this?

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All the Best
Peter
(852)2982-2731
Mob 6771-2743

[Music Integrated Solution]

On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 3:18 AM, Anthony Gregory <tg38...@gmail.com> wrote:

Of all the alternative notations I have read about, I firmly believe that the only really feasible one is Klavarskribo. 

Anthony, 

if you were right that would be very sorry, if all we can do is revive Klavar that would be very sorry, we deserve and can do better now.

 

Enrique.

 

[Music Integrated Solution]

Let me say that I believe Klavar was a good idea, probably inspired by the start-stop notation of the piano player rolls of those years, it is fine for introducing to play the piano and it does not hurt anyone or interfere with staff notation, but I am skeptical it will go beyond what it has already been nowadays.

However, I am surprised of how people concerned with alternative forms of notation continue ignoring or overlooking the piano roll notation,

It has taken over the world without the help of piano teachers or the music scores business, which has been vital for Klavar. 

It is the other music notation massively and actually used to composed music

It has literally replaced staff notation on many computer applications, it is the only notation on the Apple Garageband for iPad that has been improved and is free now.

Over the years it has been implemented in as much, if not more applications that TN

PR scrolling scores are used to play the piano these days much more than it has been used Klavar in almost a century.

And it does not need that anybody pushes it with explanations or attacks to TN, it has naturally pushed itself on its own rights into the new paperless and computer devices world.

What else could I say?

[Paul Morris]

Hi Peter,

Congrats on the success of Klavar in China!  I've often thought that alternative notation systems might have an easier time being accepted in other parts of the world where there may not be as much conservatism around "western" classical music.  Of course, this could go either way, but I'm glad that in China it seems to be going the way of openness to other alternative systems.

All the best,

-Paul

[Paul Morris]

On Nov 3, 2013, at 9:18 PM, Paul Morris <pa...@paulwmorris.com> wrote:

> I think MIDI in HTML5 has been proposed, but nothing yet. Maybe some day...
> http://createdigitalmusic.com/2012/05/midi-in-the-browser-html5-midi-document-up-for-review-audio-improving-too/

Well, looks like the coders are getting ahead of the standards bodies:
http://mudcu.be/midi-js/

-Paul

[Joseph Austin]

Thanks, Paul. I'll have to try this.
Joe Austin

[Érico Carvalho]

I use Klavarscript to transcribe TN sheets to Klavar when I want to learn complicated pieces faster. It is quite hard to figure out how to use it at first (I had to send a few e-mails to the owner of the Klavar Store website and beg him to teach me), so if you're stuck feel free to shoot me an e-mail at eric...@gmail.com .

[Pasqualina]

Hello Érico and others!

Nice to read you all are interested in Klavarskribo :) Klavarskribo is not that hard as long as you have got a nice and clear tutorial!

There has been uploaded a English version of the Klavarskribo tutorial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIoIvxunihA

Also, I have made an Facebook group for Klavarsrkibo users: https://www.facebook.com/groups/klavarskribo/

If you join, you can post all your questions in that group and find more users!

I have reserved in Facebook also an Facebookpage.

Furthermore you might consider to join the Klavarskribo Vereniging: http://translate.google.nl/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.klavarvereniging.nl%2F

Cheers!

Op vrijdag 10 januari 2014 13:53:55 UTC+1 schreef Érico Carvalho:

[Paul Morris]

Hello Pasqualina,

Welcome to the MNP list, and thanks for sharing those links!  It's good to see the Klavar community still thriving.  

One question that came up recently was how teaching music might be different with a different notation system.  I was wondering about Klavar since the Klavar community has the most teaching experience, the most well developed pedagogical materials, etc.  Do you happen to know how teaching is done differently with Klavar as opposed to traditional notation?  Especially in terms of introducing playing in new keys and that kind of thing. 

Thanks and cheers,

-Paul

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[Bob Stuckey]

Hi Pasqualina,

I wonder if you have any recent experience of Klavar readers taking ABRSM piano exams. If so what have been the terms and conditions?

Bob

[Peter Jackson]

Hi Paul, In response to your email to Pasqualina you might like to glance at the attached article written for publication in International Piano, Jan/Feb 2014 edition. In general, Klavar is more 'eye' oriented, while TN is more memory and 'ear' oriented. This can lead to tedious  note by note reading/playing by Klavar  beginners. Conferring a sure knowledge of all the possible intervals is Klavar's strength, together with fluent reading in all keys.

Sincerely,

Peter

[Pasqualina]

Hello Paul,

Thank you for your response.Yes, thanks to the rising use of internet and its forums and user groups, the star of Klavarskribo starts also to rise...
Yes, i am aware that keys are part of the traditional system. However, in Klavarskribo there is no trouble with keys. The system is you play what you see and therefore there are no  keys in Klavarskribo. However, if you want to teach the theory of keys to students, you can teach  them the theory of music. I do not know how teaching is done differently with Klavar as opposed to traditional notation. I guess it is the same? I myself  as a kid had lessons in Klavarskribo from a non-Klavarskribo teacher. He thought me also the theoretical part of the music to learn and 'see' the difference between for example f sharp and g flat. I did not find any problems with this. He thought me about the circle of fiths and relative keys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_key). And we worked  also on the piano while he explained and draw the theory on a piece of paper. You might find it useful to get the booklets "What is Klavarskribo" and/ or "Simple Music Theory for Klavarskribo" from the Dutch publisher Klavarskribo (Cat. nrs 7600  http://www.klavarskribo.nl/nl/uitgaven/piano/diversen-07600 and 7444 http://www.klavarskribo.nl/nl/uitgaven/piano/diversen-07444).

Pascal

[Pasqualina]

I do not have an answer for you Bob. I am Dutch and don't know anything about ABRSM.

I think you best can ask this question at the ABRSM http://nl.abrsm.org/en/contact-us/ 

Kind regards, Pascal

[Pasqualina]

Paul, I forgot to mention this thread: https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/musicnotation/izHlueIGucQ/discussion

Peter has also written some interesting work for his students in Hong Kong, maybe he can provide you with a better answer!

[Joseph Austin]

Is anyone familiar with the "Piano Play" method by John Colwill?

I understand he's an Australian who  has developed an "moveable do" alternative notation (colored dots instead of notes) 
for teaching very young beginners.
He also seems to start with the black notes, and adapt Kodály concepts.

Review here: 
http://www.lyricalminors.com.au/2014/03/young-piano-beginners/

I'm just wondering:  what would beginner instruction look like 
if the primary goal was to teach them to play music 
instead of teaching them to read (traditional) notation?

What if "theory" covered the components of musical structure--rhythm, form, melody, harmony--
instead of the rules of notation?

Joe Austin
aka DrTechDaddy

[Pasqualina]

I will share this question in the FB page (https://www.facebook.com/groups/klavarskribo/) for you and will ask KVN (http://www.klavarvereniging.nl/) as well!

Op zondag 3 november 2013 09:18:10 UTC+1 schreef Anthony Gregory:

[Pasqualina]

Hello Anthony, I have posted your question in the FB group. Somebody answered. He thinks it is quite impossible to do so on an iPad. Impractical and too much error might pop up. However, he is has not any experience with programming this, it is just his personal feeling as an experienced user of KlavarScript.

Op zondag 3 november 2013 09:18:10 UTC+1 schreef Anthony Gregory:

Of all the alternative notations I have read about, I firmly believe that the only really feasible one is Klavarskribo. There are two, maybe three Klavarskribo writing programs, all of which work well on PCs, but there are none that work on the iPad. Could the organizations promoting Klavarskribo please remedy this?