"The best of two worlds"

[Dan Lindgren]

I'm trying a different approach with Nydana Notation. I'm using
traditional key signatures and accidentals for Classic Nydana.
In addition to that, I use a 6-6 color scheme (where C is white).

Using 6-6 together with a diatonic stave is something I've
had in the back of my head for many years, but I don't think I
ever mentioned this idea before. I doesn't seem to take long
to get used to, and it really helps in revealing the intervals.

I've also made as many features as possible common to both
Classic and Chromatic Nydana. In doing so, I came to the
conclusion that both notations should have the same 6-6
color scheme - which they now have.

http://home.swipnet.se/nydana

Dan Lindgren

[Doug Keislar]

Dan,

This is an interesting development! In a way, it's the opposite of
Express Stave, which has the 7-5 coloring and a chromatic staff, whereas
your new version of Classic Nydana has 6-6 coloring and a diatonic staff.

If you came up with a new name, "classic" could still refer to the
original version as one might expect. The new one could be called
Diatonic Nydana...

Doug

[Dan Lindgren]

Hi Doug,

I'm always glad when you find it interesting!
Yes, it's the opposite of ES - I hadn't thought of that!

Thanks for the name suggestion (a name which had occurred
to me before).

While it would be possible for me to present three different
types of notations, I would still have preferred to have only one;
but this way I have something for all categories of users.

In a way the new Classic Nydana is even more "classic" than
the older one since it uses ordinary key signatures and
accidentals.

If you take the new Classic and just use white noteheads for
naturals and black noteheads for all the others, you get
something which is very similar to the old Classic Nydana.

Dan

[Christian]

Hi Doug,
many streets lead to Rome. But we have to follow the highways (autobahn)
to move fast.
For some time I think that cipher notation combined with duodecimal
mathematics is one of the best solutions.
Jianpu based on Rosseau and Cheve� combined with some form of single
digit chromatic cipher notation is very easy to read and memorize.
Its use together with conventional notation is very helpful for me as a
latecomer to music notation. It is interesting to note that Rosseau
developed his systems because of difficulties in reading conventional
notation.
From a letter to the trumpet player Bob Lanese:
'I will visit the Frankfurt Musikmesse 21-24 March and will try to find
somebody who believes in cipher notation and improves the existing
software.
HMN together with the Chinese JianPu based on Roseau and Cheve� is very
easy to read. There is software for JianPu.

Now I finally realise the importance of your (bob's) remark: cipher
notation is probably of advantage in playing Jazz.

Jazz chord in HMN and conventional Europe and USA nomenclature

root

1 C 5 E 8 G 1 C
2 cis/des 6 F 9 gis/as 2 cis/des
3 D 7 fis/ges A A 3 D
4 dis/es 8 G B ais/b Bb 4 dis/es
5 E 9 gis/as 0 H(B) 5 E
6 F A A 1 C 6 F
7 fis/ges B ais/b Bb 2 cis/des 7 fis/ges
8 G 0 H(B) 3 D 8 G
9 gis/as 1 C 4 dis/es 7 fis/ges
A A 2 cis/des 5 E A A
B Bb 3 D 6 F B ais/b Bb
0 H(B) 4 dis/es 7 fis/ges 0 H(B)
1 C 5 E 8 G 1

I think that alternative notations should concentrate on going mainstream.
Christian P�rksen alias Robert Elisabeth Key

[John Keller]

Hi Dan,

Your website is impressively thorough!

I am interested to know the background of the Summer Song you have used to
illustrate Nydana.

I made a reverse Express Stave transnotation of it!

Cheers, John K

Hi Doug,

Dan

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[Christian]

Griechische Notenschrift
ancient greek notation - I found this on german wikipedia
I have never seen this before.
Christian P�rksen or Robert Elisabeth Key

[Dan Lindgren]

Hi John,

John wrote:
> Your website is impressively thorough!

Oh, I try my best :-D

> I am interested to know the background of the Summer Song
> you have used  to illustrate Nydana.

Well, I was actually forced to listen to Summer Song for a
number of years when I grew up. A next-door neighbor used
to play it daily on the piano. The funny thing is that I never got
tired listening to it, and I thought that, for people trying out the
new notation, this would be a good quality to have in a piece
they would have to live with (hopefully) for a longer while.

> I made a reverse Express Stave transnotation of it!

Great!

I notice, among other things, that some noteheads are
missing, but it's nevertheless impressive what you can
achieve with your transnotation scheme. Very interesting...

Cheers,
Dan

[John Keller]

Hmm,

If noteheads are missing, I might have sent the wrong font. Did you install
this font before looking at the MUS file? If you already had an older
version of the font, some glyphs may have been missing.

Here is a PDF of my reverse ES transcription. Could you check whether it
agrees with the MUS file?

Thanks for you comments! I've enjoyed playing the piece a number of times.
Quite easy except where the left hand has some large leaps.

John K

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Lindgren" <ny.d...@ownit.name>
To: "The Music Notation Project | Forum" <musicn...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 10:38 PM
Subject: [MNP] Re: "The best of two worlds"

Hi John,

Great!

Cheers,
Dan

--

[Dan Lindgren]

John,

John wrote:
> If noteheads are missing, I might have sent the wrong font.
> Did you install this font before looking at the MUS file?
> If you already had an older version of the font, some glyphs
> may have been missing.
>
> Here is a PDF of my reverse ES transcription. Could you
> check whether it agrees with the MUS file?

The PDF looks much better!

I put the file containing the font, that you just provided, in the
folder that contains all the items related to the notation
software. I could then see the music, but not the clefs.
Noteheads were missing, or sometimes in the wrong place.
I could see an arrow pointing downwards where the treble clef
should have been, and some dashes instead of a bass clef.

Dan

[John Keller]

AAAGGHHH!!!

I have been sending people the wrong version of the Express Stave font!

The MUS file looks ridiculous with it !

This is what i should have sent. Please, anyone trying to view any of my
Express Stave MUS files, replace the old version of the font "ESbigandsmall"
with this new version!

Very sorry for my mistake. I will have to email others as well.

Cheers, john K

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Lindgren" <ny.d...@ownit.name>
To: "The Music Notation Project | Forum" <musicn...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 3:47 AM
Subject: [MNP] Re: "The best of two worlds"

[Dan Lindgren]

It's looking perfect now. Thank you, John!

Dan

[Nextstep Musical System]

On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Christian <cpoe...@gmx.net> wrote:
.

>
> I think that alternative notations should concentrate on going mainstream.

Christian, I am among those who value and understand the advantages of
cipher notation, however it cannot be ignored also its disadvantages
vs. staff notation, especially for complex polyphonic forms of music.

So far all musical notations intended as general purpose systems could
be roughly classified into one of traditional methods, which are
staff, cipher and graphic notation; all of them having certain
advantage over the other, however the reference head notation is a new
method that brakes the boundaries of all three previous methods, what
makes it the most powerful foundation technology for notating music
ever.

I think after the RH notation it should be removed the focus on
comparing implementations of traditional methods to comparing methods
themselves, the differences among implementations may not be
significant enough, however the difference among methods it is, and it
is the foundation for constructing the alternative system.

B.R.
Enrique.

[Paul Morris]

Dan,
Thanks for the update on your new approach with Nydana. It is
interesting to combine a diatonic staff with 6-6 note color like that.
It would work well for a traditional keyboard that had 6-6 coloring,
like this:

http://musicnotation.org/wiki/6-6_Colored_Traditional_%287-5%29_Keyboard

(And I see you show a keyboard like that in your .pdf file.)

Like John, I am always impressed by how thorough your website is.

Best regards,
-Paul

[Dan Lindgren]

Hi Paul,

Thank you! Well, my website is a bit "classic" in its appearance,
but I guess it works as long as the information is there.

I was aware of the 6-6 colored piano layout in the Wiki, but it
has a reversed black/white pattern. It took me a long while
to decide whether C should be black or white. It's somewhat
arbitrary, but I chose C to be white mostly because of the
C major scale, which for historical reasons (involving the
traditional nomenclature), is the number one reference. So,
what you get then is three white notes (C D E) followed by
four black notes (F G A B). When we go from E to F, we, sort
of, fall down on a "lower" whole-tone scale (with black being
perceived as darker, heavier). In other scales it can be the
opposite actually, but C major is nevertheless the norm.

Making C white also seems better for Chromatic Nydana.

I appreciate the new Classic Nydana when I try it on a
chromatic button accordion. The diagonal button rows
alternate between black and white. So, when I see, for
example, F G A - all of them being black - it tells me that
they can be played along a diagonal row of buttons. This
feature even helps me to use the duplicate rows more
efficiently.

Best Regards,
Dan