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ruined translation of Gangnam Style
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Richard Gresswell
Dec 22, 2012, 12:17:15 PM12/22/12
to musicca...@googlegroups.com
Dear All
It looks like someone ruined the Spanish translation for Gangnam style - My Spanish isn't that great but I could tell it was a vulgar. - So I tried to roll it back and all was lost, big apologies to the person who spent ages on it.
I was wondering if this kind of thing has happened a lot before, as far as I remember the user name of the person who did it was
'Javapino'.
If this kind of thing starts happening regularly we'll need to think of measures to counter it, or at least to have a rolling back system that works.
Best wishes
Richard
Claude Almansi
Dec 22, 2012, 7:07:25 PM12/22/12
to musicca...@googlegroups.com
Hi Richard and All
Between your lines, Richard
On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 6:17 PM, Richard Gresswell
<richardg...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Dear All
>
> It looks like someone ruined the Spanish translation for Gangnam style - My
> Spanish isn't that great but I could tell it was a vulgar. -
About javapino's modification of these Spanish subs, its existence is
documented in his
<http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/profiles/profile/javipino/>
profile as his only activity since s/he joined on Dec. 22, 2012.
Richard, could you confirm that it is the one that now appears as
"Revision 3 by retired user",
<http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/videos/ulxBekdGe5hV/es/401242/372352/>,
which ends with:
"Coño! ¿Qué hace Oscar aquí?
Ya está con su rollo de bailar como yo, se va a cagar."
I've downloaded it as .srt,.sbv and .txt, and archived the page in
<http://www.webcitation.org/6D6x02qfn>, anyway,. Vulgar indeed.
> So I tried to
> roll it back and all was lost, big apologies to the person who spent ages on
> it.
> I was wondering if this kind of thing has happened a lot before,
This is a serious and long-standing Amara issue indeed: destruction of
previous version when rolling back or updating by upload has been
going on at least since August, and Amara knows about it:
see in "Can't add a new translation"
<http://support.universalsubtitles.org/categories/6573/forums/28027/topics/5948>,
my exchange with Darren Bridenbeck (between Aug 13 and Aug 17) about
the deletion of Tagalog subtitles for a video by Beyoncé, .
Moreover, if other subs have been translated from the subs where you
do roll backs or updates by upload, the translated subs can be
destroyed too.
- see in "If 2 original subs are merged, the translation of the second
disappears - and former revisions of the translated subs are
destroyed" <http://support.universalsubtitles.org/categories/6573/forums/28027/topics/8785>,
Jules Rincón's Nov 5 at 9:51 PM comment: "... uploads and rollbacks
made to the transcript can fork or completely destroy the
translations."
And indeed, <http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/videos/activities/ulxBekdGe5hV/>
shows that with the exception of the Korean and Chinese (Traditional)
subs that were unaffected, the roll back of the Spanish subs also
affected all the other subtitles simultaneously: the subs show, but
they have been replaced by a last revision "by Retired user -
Uploaded", and their former revisions have all been destroyed. Which
means that for those translated from Korean, there is no way anymore
to use the translation widget to edit them.
> as far as I
> remember the user name of the person who did it was 'Javapino'.
See above: javipino
<http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/profiles/profile/javipino/>. As
to Carlos Solis' original subtitles, I hope he downloaded them. As
> If this kind of thing starts happening regularly we'll need to think of
> measures to counter it, or at least to have a rolling back system that
> works.
Indeed: vandalizing Amara-only subs has a rather limited audience.
But vandalism has become far more tempting now that Amara has enabled
users to have Amara subtitles directly sync'd to their YT videos from
their <www.universalsubtitles.org/en/profiles/account/> page. See
Jules Rincón's "Lionesses Chowtime" at 0:19
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUhzpX7nHiU&feature=player_detailpage#t=19s>,
of which she has used a screenshot in her
<http://support.universalsubtitles.org/solution/articles/40227-syncing-to-youtube>,
with the final credit sub and the link to
<http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/videos/fUl6I618bxNf/info/lionesses-chow-time/>
in the description. Someone might be tempted to emulate Darren
Bridenbeck's mock French subs in a far more vulgar way, and that would
get posted to YouTube.
Fortunately, the Amara subs for Gangnam Style were not sync'd by PSY
to the YT video.
.
But mainly, Amara developers must find a way to stop this glitch that
mucks up subs when there is a roll back or an update by uploading.
So now I'll post this reply to have a link to give for further info in
an Amara message to the Music Captioning team (unfortunately, several
subtitlers won't be reached this way because they are not members of
it) and in a message on the help forum.
Best,
Claude
Between your lines, Richard
On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 6:17 PM, Richard Gresswell
<richardg...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Dear All
>
> It looks like someone ruined the Spanish translation for Gangnam style - My
> Spanish isn't that great but I could tell it was a vulgar. -
documented in his
<http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/profiles/profile/javipino/>
profile as his only activity since s/he joined on Dec. 22, 2012.
Richard, could you confirm that it is the one that now appears as
"Revision 3 by retired user",
<http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/videos/ulxBekdGe5hV/es/401242/372352/>,
which ends with:
"Coño! ¿Qué hace Oscar aquí?
Ya está con su rollo de bailar como yo, se va a cagar."
I've downloaded it as .srt,.sbv and .txt, and archived the page in
<http://www.webcitation.org/6D6x02qfn>, anyway,. Vulgar indeed.
> So I tried to
> roll it back and all was lost, big apologies to the person who spent ages on
> it.
> I was wondering if this kind of thing has happened a lot before,
previous version when rolling back or updating by upload has been
going on at least since August, and Amara knows about it:
see in "Can't add a new translation"
<http://support.universalsubtitles.org/categories/6573/forums/28027/topics/5948>,
my exchange with Darren Bridenbeck (between Aug 13 and Aug 17) about
the deletion of Tagalog subtitles for a video by Beyoncé, .
Moreover, if other subs have been translated from the subs where you
do roll backs or updates by upload, the translated subs can be
destroyed too.
- see in "If 2 original subs are merged, the translation of the second
disappears - and former revisions of the translated subs are
destroyed" <http://support.universalsubtitles.org/categories/6573/forums/28027/topics/8785>,
Jules Rincón's Nov 5 at 9:51 PM comment: "... uploads and rollbacks
made to the transcript can fork or completely destroy the
translations."
And indeed, <http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/videos/activities/ulxBekdGe5hV/>
shows that with the exception of the Korean and Chinese (Traditional)
subs that were unaffected, the roll back of the Spanish subs also
affected all the other subtitles simultaneously: the subs show, but
they have been replaced by a last revision "by Retired user -
Uploaded", and their former revisions have all been destroyed. Which
means that for those translated from Korean, there is no way anymore
to use the translation widget to edit them.
> as far as I
> remember the user name of the person who did it was 'Javapino'.
<http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/profiles/profile/javipino/>. As
to Carlos Solis' original subtitles, I hope he downloaded them. As
> If this kind of thing starts happening regularly we'll need to think of
> measures to counter it, or at least to have a rolling back system that
> works.
But vandalism has become far more tempting now that Amara has enabled
users to have Amara subtitles directly sync'd to their YT videos from
their <www.universalsubtitles.org/en/profiles/account/> page. See
Jules Rincón's "Lionesses Chowtime" at 0:19
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUhzpX7nHiU&feature=player_detailpage#t=19s>,
of which she has used a screenshot in her
<http://support.universalsubtitles.org/solution/articles/40227-syncing-to-youtube>,
with the final credit sub and the link to
<http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/videos/fUl6I618bxNf/info/lionesses-chow-time/>
in the description. Someone might be tempted to emulate Darren
Bridenbeck's mock French subs in a far more vulgar way, and that would
get posted to YouTube.
Fortunately, the Amara subs for Gangnam Style were not sync'd by PSY
to the YT video.
.
But mainly, Amara developers must find a way to stop this glitch that
mucks up subs when there is a roll back or an update by uploading.
So now I'll post this reply to have a link to give for further info in
an Amara message to the Music Captioning team (unfortunately, several
subtitlers won't be reached this way because they are not members of
it) and in a message on the help forum.
Best,
Claude
calmansi
Dec 22, 2012, 8:11:51 PM12/22/12
to musicca...@googlegroups.com
(Copy of the message send to the Music Captioning team via Amara messaging a few minutes ago)
Dear Music Captioners
First: big thanks to Richard Gresswell for his posting in the Google Music Captioning group about the havoc wreaked in the subtitles of http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/videos/ulxBekdGe5hV/info/psy-gangnam-style-gangnamseutail-mv/ by his perfectly legitimate attempt to roll back the Spanish subtitles to the last but one version after someone revised them in a very vulgar way.
Richard's post and my reply - where I explained about other similar cases where rolling back or updating by upload deleted subs - are in https://groups.google.com/d/topic/musiccaptioning/REMudCyZ6O4/discussion .
Lessons to be drawn from this incident:
1) Amara developers must address this glitch that sometimes destroys subs and/or former revisions when there is a roll back or an update by upload: it's been going on - and they have been apprised of it - at least since August.
2) Meanwhile, beware of rolling back or updating by upload.
- If there are other subtitle sets, and/or if the set you'd like to act upon is made by translation, don't - ask on the Amara help forum that the developers do it for you.
- In case of subtitles made from the video, and when there are no other subtitles, first download both the last version and the revision you want to roll back to. So if the software mucks them up, you can upload the version you want, and keep evidence of the one you don't.
3) The vulgar editing of the Spanish subs that made Richard legitimately want to roll them back to the former version is the first case of vandalism I have seen on Amara.
However, the new possibility to automatically post Amara subtitles to YouTube originals - see http://support.universalsubtitles.org/solution/articles/40227-syncing-to-youtube - might well attract more vandals, as it will give vandals a wider audience. (Isabel Vaz Belchior has drawn my attention to other problematic aspects of this automatic sync'ing with YouTube, in particular attribution).
But moderating subtitling via workflowed tasks in the Music Captioning team would not prevent that kind of vandalism: once subtitles have been accepted as complete, the moderation tasks don't apply anymore. And workflowed tasks create a lot of hurdles to collaborative subtitling.
So for the time being, let's leave the team permission settings as they are. If another vandal strikes, let's ask the Amara developers deal with the issue.
Merry Xmas to those who celebrate it, and best wishes for 2013 to all.
Claude Almansi
PS: I'll now copy this message as a reply to https://groups.google.com/d/topic/musiccaptioning/REMudCyZ6O4/discussion. If you want to discuss it, could you please join the google group and do it there? The group is more handy for that than Amara messaging.
Dear Music Captioners
First: big thanks to Richard Gresswell for his posting in the Google Music Captioning group about the havoc wreaked in the subtitles of http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/videos/ulxBekdGe5hV/info/psy-gangnam-style-gangnamseutail-mv/ by his perfectly legitimate attempt to roll back the Spanish subtitles to the last but one version after someone revised them in a very vulgar way.
Richard's post and my reply - where I explained about other similar cases where rolling back or updating by upload deleted subs - are in https://groups.google.com/d/topic/musiccaptioning/REMudCyZ6O4/discussion .
Lessons to be drawn from this incident:
1) Amara developers must address this glitch that sometimes destroys subs and/or former revisions when there is a roll back or an update by upload: it's been going on - and they have been apprised of it - at least since August.
2) Meanwhile, beware of rolling back or updating by upload.
- If there are other subtitle sets, and/or if the set you'd like to act upon is made by translation, don't - ask on the Amara help forum that the developers do it for you.
- In case of subtitles made from the video, and when there are no other subtitles, first download both the last version and the revision you want to roll back to. So if the software mucks them up, you can upload the version you want, and keep evidence of the one you don't.
3) The vulgar editing of the Spanish subs that made Richard legitimately want to roll them back to the former version is the first case of vandalism I have seen on Amara.
However, the new possibility to automatically post Amara subtitles to YouTube originals - see http://support.universalsubtitles.org/solution/articles/40227-syncing-to-youtube - might well attract more vandals, as it will give vandals a wider audience. (Isabel Vaz Belchior has drawn my attention to other problematic aspects of this automatic sync'ing with YouTube, in particular attribution).
But moderating subtitling via workflowed tasks in the Music Captioning team would not prevent that kind of vandalism: once subtitles have been accepted as complete, the moderation tasks don't apply anymore. And workflowed tasks create a lot of hurdles to collaborative subtitling.
So for the time being, let's leave the team permission settings as they are. If another vandal strikes, let's ask the Amara developers deal with the issue.
Merry Xmas to those who celebrate it, and best wishes for 2013 to all.
Claude Almansi
PS: I'll now copy this message as a reply to https://groups.google.com/d/topic/musiccaptioning/REMudCyZ6O4/discussion. If you want to discuss it, could you please join the google group and do it there? The group is more handy for that than Amara messaging.
Richard Gresswell
Dec 23, 2012, 1:28:24 AM12/23/12
to musicca...@googlegroups.com
Dear Claude
Thank you for your help. Yes, the version you mention is the one I was referring to.
I think it will be a good idea if we suggest that everyone always downloads their SRT files. There are two issues here one is effective Rolling back of subs and the other is the syncing to YouTube. To be honest I can't understand yet what this new feature actually does.
There is just too much work out there to be destroyed, this matter needs urgent action from Amara.
Best wishes
Richard
From: Claude Almansi <claude....@gmail.com>
To: musicca...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 23 December 2012, 2:07
Subject: Re: [musiccaptioning group] ruined translation of Gangnam Style
Thank you for your help. Yes, the version you mention is the one I was referring to.
I think it will be a good idea if we suggest that everyone always downloads their SRT files. There are two issues here one is effective Rolling back of subs and the other is the syncing to YouTube. To be honest I can't understand yet what this new feature actually does.
There is just too much work out there to be destroyed, this matter needs urgent action from Amara.
Best wishes
Richard
From: Claude Almansi <claude....@gmail.com>
To: musicca...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 23 December 2012, 2:07
Subject: Re: [musiccaptioning group] ruined translation of Gangnam Style
--
See also the Amara Music Captioning team: http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/teams/musiccaptioning/
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
See also the Amara Music Captioning team: http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/teams/musiccaptioning/
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calmansi
Dec 23, 2012, 11:41:02 AM12/23/12
to musicca...@googlegroups.com, Richard Gresswell
Hi, Richard and All,
I've now posted about this issue on the help forum: A roll back destroys Spanish subs and messes up most other subs for PSY's Gangnam Style video. I've taken up your suggestion that "everyone always downloads their SRT files", Richard, but asking that Amara developers "send all Amara users a message about these issues, suggesting that they download all subtitles they have participated in, as they might be likewise destroyed."
Best,
Claude
I've now posted about this issue on the help forum: A roll back destroys Spanish subs and messes up most other subs for PSY's Gangnam Style video. I've taken up your suggestion that "everyone always downloads their SRT files", Richard, but asking that Amara developers "send all Amara users a message about these issues, suggesting that they download all subtitles they have participated in, as they might be likewise destroyed."
Best,
Claude
calmansi
Dec 26, 2012, 5:10:14 AM12/26/12
to musicca...@googlegroups.com, Richard Gresswell
Hi, Richard and All,
I hope those of you who celebrate Christmas had a nice one.
Semi-good news: To reword more concisely what I wrote yesterday in the comments to A roll back destroys Spanish subs and messes up most other subs for PSY's Gangnam Style video, the former, vandalized and software-mucked-up, revisions of the Spanish subs were apparently deleted and Carlos Solis real revisions re-uploaded by Maggie S : as she is Amara staff, she was able to attribute the reuploads to Carlos Solis in the history of revisions, but the present revisions 0 and 1 have different URLs and dates than the former revisions 0 and 1, and it's her nick that appears in the corresponding entries of the Activity subpage of the video.
While it's great to have Carlos Solis' subtitles back, Maggie S's intervention is just a very limited patch to the Amara glitch that variously makes disappear present subtitles and/or their former revisions when there is a roll back or an update by upload in a single subtitle track of a video.
The really good news is that it shows that even when that happens, those subtitles and revisions are still somewhere on the Amara software, where staff can access them (even if we users can't) and restore them. Hence my proposal in the Dec 26 at 12:51 AM comment to A roll back destroys Spanish subs and messes up most other subs for PSY's Gangnam Style video, that Amara staff start " a new sticky thread in this help forum, entitled "Reply here to request the restoration of subtitle tracks that got emptied after a roll back or an upload" (kind of symmetrical to the existing "STICKY Reply here to request to Delete a video or Remove subtitles" thread)"
But their first priority should be to fix that glitch.
As to vandalism, thanks again to Richard for having spotted this one. But I'm seriously worried that the unmoderated syncing of Amara subs to the relevant YouTube video might also bring lots more of that vandalism: see my Misgivings about and dabbling with the "Sync subtitles" feature (Account page) post on the help forum. So let's all be on the look out for odd new or revised subs in the Amara videos we watch, please.
Best wishes for 2013
Claude
(I'll also send a copy of this last comment via Amara messaging to the participants in the Music Captioning team, and maybe, with an explanatory intro, to those in the Captions Requested team).
I hope those of you who celebrate Christmas had a nice one.
Semi-good news: To reword more concisely what I wrote yesterday in the comments to A roll back destroys Spanish subs and messes up most other subs for PSY's Gangnam Style video, the former, vandalized and software-mucked-up, revisions of the Spanish subs were apparently deleted and Carlos Solis real revisions re-uploaded by Maggie S : as she is Amara staff, she was able to attribute the reuploads to Carlos Solis in the history of revisions, but the present revisions 0 and 1 have different URLs and dates than the former revisions 0 and 1, and it's her nick that appears in the corresponding entries of the Activity subpage of the video.
While it's great to have Carlos Solis' subtitles back, Maggie S's intervention is just a very limited patch to the Amara glitch that variously makes disappear present subtitles and/or their former revisions when there is a roll back or an update by upload in a single subtitle track of a video.
The really good news is that it shows that even when that happens, those subtitles and revisions are still somewhere on the Amara software, where staff can access them (even if we users can't) and restore them. Hence my proposal in the Dec 26 at 12:51 AM comment to A roll back destroys Spanish subs and messes up most other subs for PSY's Gangnam Style video, that Amara staff start " a new sticky thread in this help forum, entitled "Reply here to request the restoration of subtitle tracks that got emptied after a roll back or an upload" (kind of symmetrical to the existing "STICKY Reply here to request to Delete a video or Remove subtitles" thread)"
But their first priority should be to fix that glitch.
As to vandalism, thanks again to Richard for having spotted this one. But I'm seriously worried that the unmoderated syncing of Amara subs to the relevant YouTube video might also bring lots more of that vandalism: see my Misgivings about and dabbling with the "Sync subtitles" feature (Account page) post on the help forum. So let's all be on the look out for odd new or revised subs in the Amara videos we watch, please.
Best wishes for 2013
Claude
(I'll also send a copy of this last comment via Amara messaging to the participants in the Music Captioning team, and maybe, with an explanatory intro, to those in the Captions Requested team).
Oscar Iván Hernández Ledesma
Jan 6, 2013, 3:39:12 PM1/6/13
to musicca...@googlegroups.com, Richard Gresswell
Hi. I don't know how to sync my youtube account to my Amara account, though I already read the "HowTo" article, because I can't get to the link (etc)/profiles/account/, what should I do? ...I still don't know where to find the link with my translated videos or even the originals with my Closed Captions...Thank you very much. Happy new year!
Claude Almansi
Jan 6, 2013, 5:24:47 PM1/6/13
to musicca...@googlegroups.com
Hi Oscar,
There's indeed something odd with your profile:
It is listed in
http://www.amara.org/en/teams/captions-requested/members/?lang=pt and
in http://www.amara.org/en/teams/musiccaptioning/members/?lang=pt ,
but the http://www.amara.org/en/profiles/profile/Mex+Hosky/ URL of
the link on your name gives a "Sorry, page not found". Same with
http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/profiles/profile/Mex+Hosky/.
However, http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/profiles/videos/Mex%20Hosky/
and http://www.amara.org/en/profiles/videos/Mex%20Hosky/ work. And so
do the URLs to your numeric profile
http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/profiles/profile/86970/ and
http://www.amara.org/en/profiles/profile/86970/
If I were you, I'd submit a ticket about this issue on
http://support.universalsubtitles.org/ .
Just one thing about syncing your Youtube and Amara accounts: it's up
to you, of course, but are you ready to watch the Amara pages for your
videos 7/24 in case someone accidentally declares some of their Amara
subs complete when they aren't, or worse, declare complete a set of
vandalized Amara subs? The syncing is immediate, and that means
without any possibility to moderate the transfer of Amara-made subs to
the YT originals.
Best
Claude
There's indeed something odd with your profile:
It is listed in
http://www.amara.org/en/teams/captions-requested/members/?lang=pt and
in http://www.amara.org/en/teams/musiccaptioning/members/?lang=pt ,
but the http://www.amara.org/en/profiles/profile/Mex+Hosky/ URL of
the link on your name gives a "Sorry, page not found". Same with
http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/profiles/profile/Mex+Hosky/.
However, http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/profiles/videos/Mex%20Hosky/
and http://www.amara.org/en/profiles/videos/Mex%20Hosky/ work. And so
do the URLs to your numeric profile
http://www.universalsubtitles.org/en/profiles/profile/86970/ and
http://www.amara.org/en/profiles/profile/86970/
If I were you, I'd submit a ticket about this issue on
http://support.universalsubtitles.org/ .
Just one thing about syncing your Youtube and Amara accounts: it's up
to you, of course, but are you ready to watch the Amara pages for your
videos 7/24 in case someone accidentally declares some of their Amara
subs complete when they aren't, or worse, declare complete a set of
vandalized Amara subs? The syncing is immediate, and that means
without any possibility to moderate the transfer of Amara-made subs to
the YT originals.
Best
Claude
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