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Re: Prepping to install: a digression
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William A. Mahaffey III
Jul 13, 2015, 11:22:29 AM7/13/15
to
On 07/11/15 11:06, William A. Mahaffey III wrote:
> On 07/06/15 15:52, William A. Mahaffey III wrote:
>> On 07/04/15 09:51, William A. Mahaffey III wrote:
>>> On 07/01/15 19:38, Robert Elz wrote:
>>>> Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2015 10:40:24 -0453
>>>> From: "William A. Mahaffey III" <w...@hiwaay.net>
>>>> Message-ID: <5594087...@hiwaay.net>
>>>>
>>>> | However, this time
>>>> | I can boot back into the boot media when I plug it in &
>>>> reboot, I think
>>>> | because I *didn't* do the 'raidctl -A root raid0' command
>>>> during my
>>>> | shell excursion.
>>>>
>>>> That would be why - and you really do NOT want to do that until you
>>>> are
>>>> certain that everything is correctly set up and working.
>>>>
>>>> Boot back to the state you showed at the end of LIST.setup2.txt (the
>>>> output from setup0 and setup1 was not useful - that's just stuff
>>>> working
>>>> normally, we do not need to see that).
>>>>
>>>> That is, boot with root on sd0a and the (later intended) root on
>>>> /altroot
>>>> with /altroot/usr also mounted (/altroot/home should make no
>>>> difference one
>>>> way or the other).
>>>>
>>>> Next
>>>> chroot /altroot
>>>>
>>>> At that point run a bunch of commands and make sure everything is
>>>> working
>>>> (and check that /sbin/init exists and is executable - yoy won't be
>>>> able to
>>>> run that one). Check that /dev is sane (entries for the raids you
>>>> need,
>>>> the wd devices you have, console, null, ptys, ... (or completely
>>>> empty).
>>>
>>> Check, there are many entries in /dev, notable for all wd's, raid's,
>>> console, null, ptys, etc. Commands that I tried worked sanely. No
>>> man pages, but a few things in /bin & /sbin. I didn't try them all,
>>> but what I did worked sanely. If you need more specific info, don't
>>> hesitate to ask for it.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Run fdisk on wd0 (or whichever drive you intend to actually boot
>>>> from),
>>>> (While you are still chrooted to /altroot).
>>>
>>> See attached. Note that the attached was created a few days ago,
>>> *not* from the chrooted environment, however, I wrote down most of
>>> what I thought was the critical info from the chroot'ed output, & it
>>> is identical to the attached file. Fdisk info for wd1 is identical,
>>> w/ only the partition referenced different. I also attach disklabel
>>> info for wd0, & again, wd1 is identical except for referenced disk.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Make sure it is correctly set up, it should have an MBR, or PMBR, and
>>>> should be marked as bootable, with a bootable partition on it, and
>>>> boot
>>>> code correctly installed. Make sure you can understand how that
>>>> code is
>>>> going to locate /boot (if you want it to use the one that is in
>>>> /altroot,
>>>> then the offsets of the partitions all need to be just right - you
>>>> will
>>>> need to get someone who has set up actually booting from a raid1 to
>>>> verify
>>>> your setup, I don't run my systems that way, I prefer a separate boot
>>>> partition on wd0 (duplicated on wd1 or wd2 or whatever is
>>>> appropriate).
>>>
>>> See attached fdisk info, PBR is *not* bootable, so I guess I start
>>> there .... What next ?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also check that the bios is set to actually boot from the drive you
>>>> think,
>>>> which can be tricky if you have a whole bunch of basically
>>>> identical drives.
>>>> What the bios thinks of as the boot drive might not be the one you are
>>>> expecting.
>>>
>>> BIOS boots from USB 1st, then HDD, w/ HDD order from 1 to 6, for 6
>>> identical drives, possibly an issue as you allude to, but that is
>>> down the road for now.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> For problems at that stage, what is important to see is not the
>>>> raid setup,
>>>> but the drive layouts, labels (fdisk, gpt, disklabel - whatever is
>>>> actually
>>>> in use) of the boot drive, and the boot raid partition.
>>>>
>>>> Once you have all that right, as best you believe it can be, boot
>>>> without
>>>> sd0 (the thumb drive, I assume) connected - in that state, if you
>>>> get to
>>>> the state where the system looks to be booting, but cannot find a root
>>>> filesystem (that is, if the kernel boots, lists the hardware, etc,
>>>> and then
>>>> fails to find root) then you're in a good situation.
>>>>
>>>> If it is still unable to boot, you don't have the boot setup
>>>> correct yet,
>>>> and you will need to work on that part - making stde the MBR or
>>>> PMBR is
>>>> correct, installboot has been done correctly, and should be able to
>>>> locate
>>>> /boot at one of the (very few) places it looks.
>>>>
>>>> Once booting is right to the state of not finding root, and if you
>>>> have
>>>> done the chroot part above, and are fairly sure that the system is
>>>> correctly
>>>> installed and all the important parts are there, then you should
>>>> reboot
>>>> from sd0, and do the "raidctl -A root raid0" bit so that raidframe
>>>> will make
>>>> raid0a the root filesystem - then reboot again without sd0 and all
>>>> should
>>>> be OK.
>>>>
>>>> Finally, if you need to (almost) start all of this again (which you
>>>> easily
>>>> might) - skip everything related to /home. You don't need all
>>>> that space
>>>> just to get booted, and initing that 3.5TB raid takes a long time.
>>>> Everything
>>>> else should be fairly fast - so it is less painful to do it again,
>>>> and again,
>>>> until it all works. Once the system is properly up and running,
>>>> you can
>>>> easily configure that raid array using the running system, mount it
>>>> on /mnt.
>>>> copy whatever you might have added to /home in the interim to it,
>>>> fix fstab
>>>> to mount it on /home, and then reboot. But only after you can
>>>> boot, and
>>>> shutdown and reboot, successfully, and with no hassles, without it.
>>>>
>>>> kre
>>
>> Anything on this, anyone ? I am thinking of booting back into the
>> install shell, verifying the FS type (FFSv[1,2]) of raid0 (the
>> intended root drive) & manually using installboot to install the
>> bootxx_ffsv<whatever-raid0-is> onto the 2 underlying drives
>> (rwd[0,1]a) & seeing if that changes FDISK's opinion of whether my
>> PBR is bootable. Would that make any difference ? Please advise &
>> have a good one.
>>
>
> OK, I did as I threatened (& as recommended on the installboot online
> man page), booted back into the install shell, found that the FS type
> of /dev/raid0a was FFSv1, installboot'ed /usr/mdec/bootxx_ffsv1 onto
> /dev/rwd[0,1]a (the 2 underlying devices of the (RAID1) raid0 device),
> fdisk'ed the 2 wd's & it did *NOT* have the line about 'active PBR not
> bootable'. That sounded promising, so I poweroff'ed, removed the
> install USB stick & powered up. It came up w/ the NetBSD boot screen &
> started to boot. It got past recognizing the 3 RAID devices, all
> properly sized, then got to the following, done by writing it down
> from the screen since I can't figure out how to capture the output any
> other way (clues :-) ?):
>
> boot device: wd0
> root on wd0a dumps on wd0b
> vfs_mountroot: can't open root device
> cannot mount root, error = 16
> root device (default wd0a):
> dump device (default wd0b):
>
>
> & the process seems to be hung right there. I did hit CR after the
> root device prompt, it didn't seem to take it, timed out to the next
> prompt, where it has been for several min. now. All text is green on a
> black console screen if that matters. *Any* help appreciated :-) !!!!
>
Anything on this, anyone ? I am (re-)reading the online raidctl &
installboot man pages, but I am out of ideas for now .... Any more info
needed, please ask, & *any* help appreciated, I am stuck :-( ....
--
William A. Mahaffey III
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The M1 Garand is without doubt the finest implement of war
ever devised by man."
-- Gen. George S. Patton Jr.
--
Posted automagically by a mail2news gateway at muc.de e.V.
Please direct questions, flames, donations, etc. to news-...@muc.de
> On 07/06/15 15:52, William A. Mahaffey III wrote:
>> On 07/04/15 09:51, William A. Mahaffey III wrote:
>>> On 07/01/15 19:38, Robert Elz wrote:
>>>> Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2015 10:40:24 -0453
>>>> From: "William A. Mahaffey III" <w...@hiwaay.net>
>>>> Message-ID: <5594087...@hiwaay.net>
>>>>
>>>> | However, this time
>>>> | I can boot back into the boot media when I plug it in &
>>>> reboot, I think
>>>> | because I *didn't* do the 'raidctl -A root raid0' command
>>>> during my
>>>> | shell excursion.
>>>>
>>>> That would be why - and you really do NOT want to do that until you
>>>> are
>>>> certain that everything is correctly set up and working.
>>>>
>>>> Boot back to the state you showed at the end of LIST.setup2.txt (the
>>>> output from setup0 and setup1 was not useful - that's just stuff
>>>> working
>>>> normally, we do not need to see that).
>>>>
>>>> That is, boot with root on sd0a and the (later intended) root on
>>>> /altroot
>>>> with /altroot/usr also mounted (/altroot/home should make no
>>>> difference one
>>>> way or the other).
>>>>
>>>> Next
>>>> chroot /altroot
>>>>
>>>> At that point run a bunch of commands and make sure everything is
>>>> working
>>>> (and check that /sbin/init exists and is executable - yoy won't be
>>>> able to
>>>> run that one). Check that /dev is sane (entries for the raids you
>>>> need,
>>>> the wd devices you have, console, null, ptys, ... (or completely
>>>> empty).
>>>
>>> Check, there are many entries in /dev, notable for all wd's, raid's,
>>> console, null, ptys, etc. Commands that I tried worked sanely. No
>>> man pages, but a few things in /bin & /sbin. I didn't try them all,
>>> but what I did worked sanely. If you need more specific info, don't
>>> hesitate to ask for it.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Run fdisk on wd0 (or whichever drive you intend to actually boot
>>>> from),
>>>> (While you are still chrooted to /altroot).
>>>
>>> See attached. Note that the attached was created a few days ago,
>>> *not* from the chrooted environment, however, I wrote down most of
>>> what I thought was the critical info from the chroot'ed output, & it
>>> is identical to the attached file. Fdisk info for wd1 is identical,
>>> w/ only the partition referenced different. I also attach disklabel
>>> info for wd0, & again, wd1 is identical except for referenced disk.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Make sure it is correctly set up, it should have an MBR, or PMBR, and
>>>> should be marked as bootable, with a bootable partition on it, and
>>>> boot
>>>> code correctly installed. Make sure you can understand how that
>>>> code is
>>>> going to locate /boot (if you want it to use the one that is in
>>>> /altroot,
>>>> then the offsets of the partitions all need to be just right - you
>>>> will
>>>> need to get someone who has set up actually booting from a raid1 to
>>>> verify
>>>> your setup, I don't run my systems that way, I prefer a separate boot
>>>> partition on wd0 (duplicated on wd1 or wd2 or whatever is
>>>> appropriate).
>>>
>>> See attached fdisk info, PBR is *not* bootable, so I guess I start
>>> there .... What next ?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also check that the bios is set to actually boot from the drive you
>>>> think,
>>>> which can be tricky if you have a whole bunch of basically
>>>> identical drives.
>>>> What the bios thinks of as the boot drive might not be the one you are
>>>> expecting.
>>>
>>> BIOS boots from USB 1st, then HDD, w/ HDD order from 1 to 6, for 6
>>> identical drives, possibly an issue as you allude to, but that is
>>> down the road for now.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> For problems at that stage, what is important to see is not the
>>>> raid setup,
>>>> but the drive layouts, labels (fdisk, gpt, disklabel - whatever is
>>>> actually
>>>> in use) of the boot drive, and the boot raid partition.
>>>>
>>>> Once you have all that right, as best you believe it can be, boot
>>>> without
>>>> sd0 (the thumb drive, I assume) connected - in that state, if you
>>>> get to
>>>> the state where the system looks to be booting, but cannot find a root
>>>> filesystem (that is, if the kernel boots, lists the hardware, etc,
>>>> and then
>>>> fails to find root) then you're in a good situation.
>>>>
>>>> If it is still unable to boot, you don't have the boot setup
>>>> correct yet,
>>>> and you will need to work on that part - making stde the MBR or
>>>> PMBR is
>>>> correct, installboot has been done correctly, and should be able to
>>>> locate
>>>> /boot at one of the (very few) places it looks.
>>>>
>>>> Once booting is right to the state of not finding root, and if you
>>>> have
>>>> done the chroot part above, and are fairly sure that the system is
>>>> correctly
>>>> installed and all the important parts are there, then you should
>>>> reboot
>>>> from sd0, and do the "raidctl -A root raid0" bit so that raidframe
>>>> will make
>>>> raid0a the root filesystem - then reboot again without sd0 and all
>>>> should
>>>> be OK.
>>>>
>>>> Finally, if you need to (almost) start all of this again (which you
>>>> easily
>>>> might) - skip everything related to /home. You don't need all
>>>> that space
>>>> just to get booted, and initing that 3.5TB raid takes a long time.
>>>> Everything
>>>> else should be fairly fast - so it is less painful to do it again,
>>>> and again,
>>>> until it all works. Once the system is properly up and running,
>>>> you can
>>>> easily configure that raid array using the running system, mount it
>>>> on /mnt.
>>>> copy whatever you might have added to /home in the interim to it,
>>>> fix fstab
>>>> to mount it on /home, and then reboot. But only after you can
>>>> boot, and
>>>> shutdown and reboot, successfully, and with no hassles, without it.
>>>>
>>>> kre
>>
>> Anything on this, anyone ? I am thinking of booting back into the
>> install shell, verifying the FS type (FFSv[1,2]) of raid0 (the
>> intended root drive) & manually using installboot to install the
>> bootxx_ffsv<whatever-raid0-is> onto the 2 underlying drives
>> (rwd[0,1]a) & seeing if that changes FDISK's opinion of whether my
>> PBR is bootable. Would that make any difference ? Please advise &
>> have a good one.
>>
>
> OK, I did as I threatened (& as recommended on the installboot online
> man page), booted back into the install shell, found that the FS type
> of /dev/raid0a was FFSv1, installboot'ed /usr/mdec/bootxx_ffsv1 onto
> /dev/rwd[0,1]a (the 2 underlying devices of the (RAID1) raid0 device),
> fdisk'ed the 2 wd's & it did *NOT* have the line about 'active PBR not
> bootable'. That sounded promising, so I poweroff'ed, removed the
> install USB stick & powered up. It came up w/ the NetBSD boot screen &
> started to boot. It got past recognizing the 3 RAID devices, all
> properly sized, then got to the following, done by writing it down
> from the screen since I can't figure out how to capture the output any
> other way (clues :-) ?):
>
> boot device: wd0
> root on wd0a dumps on wd0b
> vfs_mountroot: can't open root device
> cannot mount root, error = 16
> root device (default wd0a):
> dump device (default wd0b):
>
>
> & the process seems to be hung right there. I did hit CR after the
> root device prompt, it didn't seem to take it, timed out to the next
> prompt, where it has been for several min. now. All text is green on a
> black console screen if that matters. *Any* help appreciated :-) !!!!
>
Anything on this, anyone ? I am (re-)reading the online raidctl &
installboot man pages, but I am out of ideas for now .... Any more info
needed, please ask, & *any* help appreciated, I am stuck :-( ....
--
William A. Mahaffey III
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The M1 Garand is without doubt the finest implement of war
ever devised by man."
-- Gen. George S. Patton Jr.
--
Posted automagically by a mail2news gateway at muc.de e.V.
Please direct questions, flames, donations, etc. to news-...@muc.de
Christos Zoulas
Jul 13, 2015, 12:06:40 PM7/13/15
to
In article <55A3D79...@hiwaay.net>,
William A. Mahaffey III <w...@hiwaay.net> wrote:
[stuff deleted]
>Anything on this, anyone ? I am (re-)reading the online raidctl &
>installboot man pages, but I am out of ideas for now .... Any more info
>needed, please ask, & *any* help appreciated, I am stuck :-( ....
Did the raid autoconfigure at this point? If it did, then you could boot -a
and enter raid0a for the root device. Then you can try to to make raid
autoconfigure root... What does raidctl -s raid0 say?
christos
William A. Mahaffey III <w...@hiwaay.net> wrote:
[stuff deleted]
>Anything on this, anyone ? I am (re-)reading the online raidctl &
>installboot man pages, but I am out of ideas for now .... Any more info
>needed, please ask, & *any* help appreciated, I am stuck :-( ....
and enter raid0a for the root device. Then you can try to to make raid
autoconfigure root... What does raidctl -s raid0 say?
christos
Robert Elz
Jul 13, 2015, 5:52:37 PM7/13/15
to
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 16:06:14 +0000 (UTC)
From: chri...@astron.com (Christos Zoulas)
Message-ID: <mo0nlm$6rl$1...@ger.gmane.org>
| Did the raid autoconfigure at this point? If it did, then you could boot -a
| and enter raid0a for the root device.
Unfortunately, I don't think he can - he suffers the "keyboard doesn't work"
malady that has been reported by others (at that stage of the boot process).
That is, "boot -a" works fine, but he is unable to enter "raid0a" (or
anything else) when asked for the root device (etc). This was tried as
a suggestion to overcome the following problem earlier.
| Then you can try to to make raid autoconfigure root...
That he had previously as well, and it just resulted in a system that
couldn't run or boot any form of NetBSD (or at least, not any with raid
autoconfigure included in the kernel, which it is in just about everything)
and required use of another OS to clear the discs so he could start again.
| What does raidctl -s raid0 say?
I don't think his problem currently is in any way related to the raid config
or what's on them (though there may still be some issue that needs fixing if
he can ever get it to boot).
The problem is how to correctly set up booting from a raid1 filesystem, which
is a topic I know nothing about, having never done that.
Someone who has, and understands how everything needs to be fudged to make it
all work and ideally, who understands the processes involved in getting
an i386/amd64 system booted should take a look at his setup, and figure out
what he did (or failed to do)which doesn't meet the (as I understand it)
fickle requirements to boot this way, and tell him what to correct. It is
most likely something simple, like starting a filesystem at a particular magic
offset, or something.
I don't think (I am assuming, especially as this has been going on so long)
that it matters if the whole installation needs to start again from scratch...
kre
From: chri...@astron.com (Christos Zoulas)
Message-ID: <mo0nlm$6rl$1...@ger.gmane.org>
| Did the raid autoconfigure at this point? If it did, then you could boot -a
| and enter raid0a for the root device.
malady that has been reported by others (at that stage of the boot process).
That is, "boot -a" works fine, but he is unable to enter "raid0a" (or
anything else) when asked for the root device (etc). This was tried as
a suggestion to overcome the following problem earlier.
| Then you can try to to make raid autoconfigure root...
couldn't run or boot any form of NetBSD (or at least, not any with raid
autoconfigure included in the kernel, which it is in just about everything)
and required use of another OS to clear the discs so he could start again.
| What does raidctl -s raid0 say?
or what's on them (though there may still be some issue that needs fixing if
he can ever get it to boot).
The problem is how to correctly set up booting from a raid1 filesystem, which
is a topic I know nothing about, having never done that.
Someone who has, and understands how everything needs to be fudged to make it
all work and ideally, who understands the processes involved in getting
an i386/amd64 system booted should take a look at his setup, and figure out
what he did (or failed to do)which doesn't meet the (as I understand it)
fickle requirements to boot this way, and tell him what to correct. It is
most likely something simple, like starting a filesystem at a particular magic
offset, or something.
I don't think (I am assuming, especially as this has been going on so long)
that it matters if the whole installation needs to start again from scratch...
kre
William A. Mahaffey III
Jul 13, 2015, 6:35:13 PM7/13/15
to
On 07/13/15 11:12, Christos Zoulas wrote:
> In article <55A3D79...@hiwaay.net>,
> William A. Mahaffey III <w...@hiwaay.net> wrote:
>
> [stuff deleted]
boot device: wd0
root device (default wd0a):
When I tried to type in 'raid0a', it added 'pckbport_start: command
error' & hung.
i.e. it now says:
boot device: wd0
root device (default wd0a): pckbport_start: command error
with the cursor right below that line & not responding.
The RAID devices all autoconfigured OK, AFAICT, all 3 were mentioned,
showed the component partitions, had the right sizes, etc. i.e. it
looked AOK to me. The lines from the RAID device recognition were right
before the above 'boot device' line. I then powered off, put the install
USB stick in & powered up. I bumped over into the shell & executed
'raidctl -s raid0 > LIST.raid0.new.txt', which I attach. If you need
*anything* else, please don't hesitate. Thanks again & TIA for any new
clues.
P.S. As mentioned elsewhere, I have had trouble w/ raidctl -A root
before, so I haven't gone there yet. Is that actually required for boot
from root on RAID (man pages seem ambiguous on that point) ?
> In article <55A3D79...@hiwaay.net>,
> William A. Mahaffey III <w...@hiwaay.net> wrote:
>
> [stuff deleted]
>
>> Anything on this, anyone ? I am (re-)reading the online raidctl &
>> installboot man pages, but I am out of ideas for now .... Any more info
>> needed, please ask, & *any* help appreciated, I am stuck :-( ....
>> Anything on this, anyone ? I am (re-)reading the online raidctl &
>> installboot man pages, but I am out of ideas for now .... Any more info
>> needed, please ask, & *any* help appreciated, I am stuck :-( ....
> Did the raid autoconfigure at this point? If it did, then you could boot -a
> and enter raid0a for the root device. Then you can try to to make raid
> autoconfigure root... What does raidctl -s raid0 say?
>
> christos
Thanks for the reply. I tried the 'boot -a'. It got down to the following:
> and enter raid0a for the root device. Then you can try to to make raid
> autoconfigure root... What does raidctl -s raid0 say?
>
> christos
boot device: wd0
root device (default wd0a):
When I tried to type in 'raid0a', it added 'pckbport_start: command
error' & hung.
i.e. it now says:
boot device: wd0
root device (default wd0a): pckbport_start: command error
with the cursor right below that line & not responding.
The RAID devices all autoconfigured OK, AFAICT, all 3 were mentioned,
showed the component partitions, had the right sizes, etc. i.e. it
looked AOK to me. The lines from the RAID device recognition were right
before the above 'boot device' line. I then powered off, put the install
USB stick in & powered up. I bumped over into the shell & executed
'raidctl -s raid0 > LIST.raid0.new.txt', which I attach. If you need
*anything* else, please don't hesitate. Thanks again & TIA for any new
clues.
P.S. As mentioned elsewhere, I have had trouble w/ raidctl -A root
before, so I haven't gone there yet. Is that actually required for boot
from root on RAID (man pages seem ambiguous on that point) ?
William A. Mahaffey III
Jul 13, 2015, 6:40:44 PM7/13/15
to
needed, since I now have most of it scripted, it should go reliably,
except for a bit of FDISK-ing, which I haven't yet figured out how to
script. That's no matter for now, of course. Thanks again.
--
William A. Mahaffey III
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The M1 Garand is without doubt the finest implement of war
ever devised by man."
-- Gen. George S. Patton Jr.
Christos Zoulas
Jul 13, 2015, 8:44:28 PM7/13/15
to
In article <55A43D0B...@hiwaay.net>,
William A. Mahaffey III <w...@hiwaay.net> wrote:
>-=-=-=-=-=-
>> William A. Mahaffey III <w...@hiwaay.net> wrote:
>>
>> [stuff deleted]
keyboard is not functional for you. Try raidctl -A softroot <device>
christos
William A. Mahaffey III <w...@hiwaay.net> wrote:
>-=-=-=-=-=-
>> William A. Mahaffey III <w...@hiwaay.net> wrote:
>>
>> [stuff deleted]
>>
>>> Anything on this, anyone ? I am (re-)reading the online raidctl &
>>> installboot man pages, but I am out of ideas for now .... Any more info
>>> needed, please ask, & *any* help appreciated, I am stuck :-( ....
>>> Anything on this, anyone ? I am (re-)reading the online raidctl &
>>> installboot man pages, but I am out of ideas for now .... Any more info
>>> needed, please ask, & *any* help appreciated, I am stuck :-( ....
>> Did the raid autoconfigure at this point? If it did, then you could boot -a
>> and enter raid0a for the root device. Then you can try to to make raid
>> autoconfigure root... What does raidctl -s raid0 say?
>>
>> christos
>
>
>> and enter raid0a for the root device. Then you can try to to make raid
>> autoconfigure root... What does raidctl -s raid0 say?
>>
>> christos
>
>
>Thanks for the reply. I tried the 'boot -a'. It got down to the following:
>
>boot device: wd0
>root device (default wd0a):
>
>When I tried to type in 'raid0a', it added 'pckbport_start: command
>error' & hung.
>
>i.e. it now says:
>
>boot device: wd0
>root device (default wd0a): pckbport_start: command error
>
>with the cursor right below that line & not responding.
>
>The RAID devices all autoconfigured OK, AFAICT, all 3 were mentioned,
>showed the component partitions, had the right sizes, etc. i.e. it
>looked AOK to me. The lines from the RAID device recognition were right
>before the above 'boot device' line. I then powered off, put the install
>USB stick in & powered up. I bumped over into the shell & executed
>'raidctl -s raid0 > LIST.raid0.new.txt', which I attach. If you need
>*anything* else, please don't hesitate. Thanks again & TIA for any new
>clues.
>
>P.S. As mentioned elsewhere, I have had trouble w/ raidctl -A root
>before, so I haven't gone there yet. Is that actually required for boot
>from root on RAID (man pages seem ambiguous on that point) ?
Yes, this is required for booting from raid. I am wondering why the
>
>boot device: wd0
>root device (default wd0a):
>
>When I tried to type in 'raid0a', it added 'pckbport_start: command
>error' & hung.
>
>i.e. it now says:
>
>boot device: wd0
>root device (default wd0a): pckbport_start: command error
>
>with the cursor right below that line & not responding.
>
>The RAID devices all autoconfigured OK, AFAICT, all 3 were mentioned,
>showed the component partitions, had the right sizes, etc. i.e. it
>looked AOK to me. The lines from the RAID device recognition were right
>before the above 'boot device' line. I then powered off, put the install
>USB stick in & powered up. I bumped over into the shell & executed
>'raidctl -s raid0 > LIST.raid0.new.txt', which I attach. If you need
>*anything* else, please don't hesitate. Thanks again & TIA for any new
>clues.
>
>P.S. As mentioned elsewhere, I have had trouble w/ raidctl -A root
>before, so I haven't gone there yet. Is that actually required for boot
>from root on RAID (man pages seem ambiguous on that point) ?
keyboard is not functional for you. Try raidctl -A softroot <device>
christos
William A. Mahaffey III
Jul 13, 2015, 10:18:27 PM7/13/15
to
On 07/13/15 19:50, Christos Zoulas wrote:
> In article <55A43D0B...@hiwaay.net>,
> William A. Mahaffey III <w...@hiwaay.net> wrote:
>> -=-=-=-=-=-
>>
>> On 07/13/15 11:12, Christos Zoulas wrote:
>>> In article <55A3D79...@hiwaay.net>,
>>> William A. Mahaffey III <w...@hiwaay.net> wrote:
> In article <55A43D0B...@hiwaay.net>,
> William A. Mahaffey III <w...@hiwaay.net> wrote:
>> -=-=-=-=-=-
>>
>> On 07/13/15 11:12, Christos Zoulas wrote:
>>> In article <55A3D79...@hiwaay.net>,
>>>
>>> [stuff deleted]
>>>
>>>> Anything on this, anyone ? I am (re-)reading the online raidctl &
>>>> installboot man pages, but I am out of ideas for now .... Any more info
>>>> needed, please ask, & *any* help appreciated, I am stuck :-( ....
>>>> Anything on this, anyone ? I am (re-)reading the online raidctl &
>>>> installboot man pages, but I am out of ideas for now .... Any more info
>>>> needed, please ask, & *any* help appreciated, I am stuck :-( ....
apparently only in 7.0-CURRENT, not even seen in 7.0-RC1 ....
Robert Elz
Jul 13, 2015, 10:37:36 PM7/13/15
to
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 00:43:57 +0000 (UTC)
From: chri...@astron.com (Christos Zoulas)
Message-ID: <mo1m0c$64o$1...@ger.gmane.org>
| Yes, this is required for booting from raid.
It is required to make the root on raid work automatically, not for
booting.
| I am wondering why the keyboard is not functional for you.
I suspect (well, really, I'm sure) that's an entirely unrelated problem,
one which has been reported several times before - there must be something
about some systems that NetBSD's initial keyboard access stuff (before
wekbd gets a chance to get involved) isn't doing properly. If he can get
booting working properly, it shouldn't matter normally.
| Try raidctl -A softroot <device>
I'd suggest not. It won't make the boot work - cannot possibly help with
that, and will only make it difficult to recover (again - though now it has
been done once, at least a working method is known), whereas now it is easy
to simply start again.
As I said a week or two ago - you need to get to the state where the kernel
boots, autoconfigures devices, and then fails to find the root filesystem
(booting from the wd discs, not the USB plugin) - when you have that much
working, then is the time to reboot from the USB, and do that raidctl to
allow the root raid to appear.
kre
From: chri...@astron.com (Christos Zoulas)
Message-ID: <mo1m0c$64o$1...@ger.gmane.org>
| Yes, this is required for booting from raid.
booting.
| I am wondering why the keyboard is not functional for you.
one which has been reported several times before - there must be something
about some systems that NetBSD's initial keyboard access stuff (before
wekbd gets a chance to get involved) isn't doing properly. If he can get
booting working properly, it shouldn't matter normally.
| Try raidctl -A softroot <device>
that, and will only make it difficult to recover (again - though now it has
been done once, at least a working method is known), whereas now it is easy
to simply start again.
As I said a week or two ago - you need to get to the state where the kernel
boots, autoconfigures devices, and then fails to find the root filesystem
(booting from the wd discs, not the USB plugin) - when you have that much
working, then is the time to reboot from the USB, and do that raidctl to
allow the root raid to appear.
kre
William A. Mahaffey III
Jul 13, 2015, 10:51:48 PM7/13/15
to
On 07/13/15 20:46, Robert Elz wrote:
> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 00:43:57 +0000 (UTC)
> From: chri...@astron.com (Christos Zoulas)
> Message-ID: <mo1m0c$64o$1...@ger.gmane.org>
>
> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 00:43:57 +0000 (UTC)
> From: chri...@astron.com (Christos Zoulas)
> Message-ID: <mo1m0c$64o$1...@ger.gmane.org>
>
> | Yes, this is required for booting from raid.
>
>
> It is required to make the root on raid work automatically, not for
> booting.
>
> booting.
>
> | I am wondering why the keyboard is not functional for you.
>
>
> I suspect (well, really, I'm sure) that's an entirely unrelated problem,
> one which has been reported several times before - there must be something
> about some systems that NetBSD's initial keyboard access stuff (before
> wekbd gets a chance to get involved) isn't doing properly. If he can get
> booting working properly, it shouldn't matter normally.
>
> one which has been reported several times before - there must be something
> about some systems that NetBSD's initial keyboard access stuff (before
> wekbd gets a chance to get involved) isn't doing properly. If he can get
> booting working properly, it shouldn't matter normally.
>
> | Try raidctl -A softroot <device>
>
>
> I'd suggest not. It won't make the boot work - cannot possibly help with
> that, and will only make it difficult to recover (again - though now it has
> been done once, at least a working method is known), whereas now it is easy
> to simply start again.
>
> As I said a week or two ago - you need to get to the state where the kernel
> boots, autoconfigures devices, and then fails to find the root filesystem
> (booting from the wd discs, not the USB plugin) - when you have that much
> working, then is the time to reboot from the USB, and do that raidctl to
> allow the root raid to appear.
>
> kre
Hmmmmm .... I *think* that's where I am now, from earlier today & a few
> that, and will only make it difficult to recover (again - though now it has
> been done once, at least a working method is known), whereas now it is easy
> to simply start again.
>
> As I said a week or two ago - you need to get to the state where the kernel
> boots, autoconfigures devices, and then fails to find the root filesystem
> (booting from the wd discs, not the USB plugin) - when you have that much
> working, then is the time to reboot from the USB, and do that raidctl to
> allow the root raid to appear.
>
> kre
days ago (from boot attempt from disks, *not* USB):
boot device: wd0
root on wd0a dumps on wd0b
vfs_mountroot: can't open root device
cannot mount root, error = 16
root device (default wd0a):
dump device (default wd0b):
components, sizes (all OK), etc., a couple of extra lines for raid2
(/home, larger FS, gpt slice), but all apparently recognized OK, if
that's what those lines mean .... Am I looking for the word
'autoconfigure' explicitly ? If so, I'll reboot & watch for it ....
Thanks for everything so far & TIA for anything new.
--
William A. Mahaffey III
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The M1 Garand is without doubt the finest implement of war
ever devised by man."
-- Gen. George S. Patton Jr.
Michael van Elst
Jul 14, 2015, 3:40:00 AM7/14/15
to
w...@hiwaay.net ("William A. Mahaffey III") writes:
>P.S. As mentioned elsewhere, I have had trouble w/ raidctl -A root
>before, so I haven't gone there yet. Is that actually required for boot
>from root on RAID (man pages seem ambiguous on that point) ?
Currently it is necessary.
>P.S. As mentioned elsewhere, I have had trouble w/ raidctl -A root
>before, so I haven't gone there yet. Is that actually required for boot
>from root on RAID (man pages seem ambiguous on that point) ?
The bootloader understands enough about RAID to read /boot and /netbsd.
But the kernel just gets data about the boot device (wd0) which has no
root partition.
The raidctl -A magic overrides the bootloader information, so that the
kernel will see and mount raidNa as the root partition.
The magic should go away and the kernel should just learn how to handle
raid partitions (and LVM partitions and ...). But for now that's how it
works.
--
--
Michael van Elst
Internet: mle...@serpens.de
"A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
tlar...@polynum.com
Jul 14, 2015, 4:27:51 AM7/14/15
to
On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 12:43:57AM +0000, Christos Zoulas wrote:
> In article <55A43D0B...@hiwaay.net>,
> William A. Mahaffey III <w...@hiwaay.net> wrote:
> >[...]
>
> [...] I am wondering why the
asked before: is the keyboard USB attached and not PS2? In this case,
from usb(4) add the "flags 1" to the USB protocols in the kernel config:
usb* at ehci? flags 1
usb* at ohci? flags 1
usb* at uhci? flags 1
(I guess this could be limited to the USB 1.0 protocols but who
knows...)
because :
"Sometimes it is desirable to have a device detected early in the
boot process, e.g., the console keyboard. To achieve this use a flags
value of 1."
FWIW,
--
Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com>
http://www.kergis.com/
http://www.arts-po.fr/
Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C
> In article <55A43D0B...@hiwaay.net>,
> William A. Mahaffey III <w...@hiwaay.net> wrote:
> >[...]
> >
> >Thanks for the reply. I tried the 'boot -a'. It got down to the following:
> >
> >boot device: wd0
> >root device (default wd0a):
> >
> >When I tried to type in 'raid0a', it added 'pckbport_start: command
> >error' & hung.
> >[...]
> >Thanks for the reply. I tried the 'boot -a'. It got down to the following:
> >
> >boot device: wd0
> >root device (default wd0a):
> >
> >When I tried to type in 'raid0a', it added 'pckbport_start: command
> >error' & hung.
>
> [...] I am wondering why the
> keyboard is not functional for you. Try raidctl -A softroot <device>
>
I have not followed the thread from the start so this has perhaps been
>
asked before: is the keyboard USB attached and not PS2? In this case,
from usb(4) add the "flags 1" to the USB protocols in the kernel config:
usb* at ehci? flags 1
usb* at ohci? flags 1
usb* at uhci? flags 1
(I guess this could be limited to the USB 1.0 protocols but who
knows...)
because :
"Sometimes it is desirable to have a device detected early in the
boot process, e.g., the console keyboard. To achieve this use a flags
value of 1."
FWIW,
--
Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com>
http://www.kergis.com/
http://www.arts-po.fr/
Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C
William A. Mahaffey III
Jul 14, 2015, 8:05:19 AM7/14/15
to
On 07/14/15 02:15, tlar...@polynum.com wrote:
>> [...] I am wondering why the
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 12:43:57AM +0000, Christos Zoulas wrote:
>> In article <55A43D0B...@hiwaay.net>,
>> William A. Mahaffey III <w...@hiwaay.net> wrote:
>>> [...]
>> In article <55A43D0B...@hiwaay.net>,
>> William A. Mahaffey III <w...@hiwaay.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for the reply. I tried the 'boot -a'. It got down to the following:
>>>
>>> boot device: wd0
>>> root device (default wd0a):
>>>
>>> When I tried to type in 'raid0a', it added 'pckbport_start: command
>>> error' & hung.
>>> [...]
>>> Thanks for the reply. I tried the 'boot -a'. It got down to the following:
>>>
>>> boot device: wd0
>>> root device (default wd0a):
>>>
>>> When I tried to type in 'raid0a', it added 'pckbport_start: command
>>> error' & hung.
>> [...] I am wondering why the
>> keyboard is not functional for you. Try raidctl -A softroot <device>
>>
>>
> I have not followed the thread from the start so this has perhaps been
> asked before: is the keyboard USB attached and not PS2? In this case,
> from usb(4) add the "flags 1" to the USB protocols in the kernel config:
>
> usb* at ehci? flags 1
> usb* at ohci? flags 1
> usb* at uhci? flags 1
>
> (I guess this could be limited to the USB 1.0 protocols but who
> knows...)
>
> because :
>
> "Sometimes it is desirable to have a device detected early in the
> boot process, e.g., the console keyboard. To achieve this use a flags
> value of 1."
>
> FWIW,
Good thought, however it is a PS2 kbd & mouse. Thanks for your reply &
> asked before: is the keyboard USB attached and not PS2? In this case,
> from usb(4) add the "flags 1" to the USB protocols in the kernel config:
>
> usb* at ehci? flags 1
> usb* at ohci? flags 1
> usb* at uhci? flags 1
>
> (I guess this could be limited to the USB 1.0 protocols but who
> knows...)
>
> because :
>
> "Sometimes it is desirable to have a device detected early in the
> boot process, e.g., the console keyboard. To achieve this use a flags
> value of 1."
>
> FWIW,
TIA for any new clues.
--
William A. Mahaffey III
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The M1 Garand is without doubt the finest implement of war
ever devised by man."
-- Gen. George S. Patton Jr.
William A. Mahaffey III
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The M1 Garand is without doubt the finest implement of war
ever devised by man."
-- Gen. George S. Patton Jr.
William A. Mahaffey III
Jul 14, 2015, 8:12:50 AM7/14/15
to
On 07/13/15 20:46, Robert Elz wrote:
> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 00:43:57 +0000 (UTC)
> From: chri...@astron.com (Christos Zoulas)
> Message-ID: <mo1m0c$64o$1...@ger.gmane.org>
>
> From: chri...@astron.com (Christos Zoulas)
> Message-ID: <mo1m0c$64o$1...@ger.gmane.org>
>
> | Yes, this is required for booting from raid.
>
>
> It is required to make the root on raid work automatically, not for
> booting.
>
> booting.
>
> | I am wondering why the keyboard is not functional for you.
>
>
> I suspect (well, really, I'm sure) that's an entirely unrelated problem,
> one which has been reported several times before - there must be something
> about some systems that NetBSD's initial keyboard access stuff (before
> wekbd gets a chance to get involved) isn't doing properly. If he can get
> booting working properly, it shouldn't matter normally.
>
> one which has been reported several times before - there must be something
> about some systems that NetBSD's initial keyboard access stuff (before
> wekbd gets a chance to get involved) isn't doing properly. If he can get
> booting working properly, it shouldn't matter normally.
>
> | Try raidctl -A softroot <device>
>
>
> I'd suggest not. It won't make the boot work - cannot possibly help with
> that, and will only make it difficult to recover (again - though now it has
> been done once, at least a working method is known), whereas now it is easy
> to simply start again.
>
> As I said a week or two ago - you need to get to the state where the kernel
> boots, autoconfigures devices, and then fails to find the root filesystem
> (booting from the wd discs, not the USB plugin) - when you have that much
> working, then is the time to reboot from the USB, and do that raidctl to
> allow the root raid to appear.
>
> kre
I had a thought last evening. Is it possible that dmesg info (or
> that, and will only make it difficult to recover (again - though now it has
> been done once, at least a working method is known), whereas now it is easy
> to simply start again.
>
> As I said a week or two ago - you need to get to the state where the kernel
> boots, autoconfigures devices, and then fails to find the root filesystem
> (booting from the wd discs, not the USB plugin) - when you have that much
> working, then is the time to reboot from the USB, and do that raidctl to
> allow the root raid to appear.
>
> kre
something similar) is still stored somewhere on the filesystem from the
failed HDD boot ? If so, is it possible to boot from the USB drive &
recover it somehow ? I powered off using the power button & it
'unbooted' cleanly. That dmesg info would provide more accurate &
detailed info on the state of the boot process than me trying to type it
in from memory or hand-written notes. Just a thought ....
--
William A. Mahaffey III
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The M1 Garand is without doubt the finest implement of war
ever devised by man."
-- Gen. George S. Patton Jr.
William A. Mahaffey III
Jul 14, 2015, 11:34:27 AM7/14/15
to
>> P.S. As mentioned elsewhere, I have had trouble w/ raidctl -A root
>> before, so I haven't gone there yet. Is that actually required for boot
> >from root on RAID (man pages seem ambiguous on that point) ?
>
>> before, so I haven't gone there yet. Is that actually required for boot
> >from root on RAID (man pages seem ambiguous on that point) ?
>
> Currently it is necessary.
>
> The bootloader understands enough about RAID to read /boot and /netbsd.
> But the kernel just gets data about the boot device (wd0) which has no
> root partition.
>
> The raidctl -A magic overrides the bootloader information, so that the
> kernel will see and mount raidNa as the root partition.
>
> The magic should go away and the kernel should just learn how to handle
> raid partitions (and LVM partitions and ...). But for now that's how it
> works.
Maybe 6.1.6 :-) ?
>
> The bootloader understands enough about RAID to read /boot and /netbsd.
> But the kernel just gets data about the boot device (wd0) which has no
> root partition.
>
> The raidctl -A magic overrides the bootloader information, so that the
> kernel will see and mount raidNa as the root partition.
>
> The magic should go away and the kernel should just learn how to handle
> raid partitions (and LVM partitions and ...). But for now that's how it
> works.
--
William A. Mahaffey III
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The M1 Garand is without doubt the finest implement of war
ever devised by man."
-- Gen. George S. Patton Jr.
Michael van Elst
Jul 14, 2015, 2:40:26 PM7/14/15
to
>Good thought, however it is a PS2 kbd & mouse. Thanks for your reply &
it prevents an USB keyboard from becoming the console keyboard.
>TIA for any new clues.
If PS2 hardware is detected (even when not really functional),
it prevents an USB keyboard from becoming the console keyboard.
William A. Mahaffey III
Jul 14, 2015, 4:40:46 PM7/14/15
to
>> Good thought, however it is a PS2 kbd & mouse. Thanks for your reply &
some of the problems so far ? Mind you, when up & running, it will have
no kbd/mouse/monitor attached by default ....
--
William A. Mahaffey III
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The M1 Garand is without doubt the finest implement of war
ever devised by man."
-- Gen. George S. Patton Jr.
>> TIA for any new clues.
> If PS2 hardware is detected (even when not really functional),
> it prevents an USB keyboard from becoming the console keyboard.
Hmmmm .... I do have a spare USB kbd laying around, might that get past
> it prevents an USB keyboard from becoming the console keyboard.
some of the problems so far ? Mind you, when up & running, it will have
no kbd/mouse/monitor attached by default ....
--
William A. Mahaffey III
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The M1 Garand is without doubt the finest implement of war
ever devised by man."
-- Gen. George S. Patton Jr.
tlar...@polynum.com
Jul 14, 2015, 4:57:49 PM7/14/15
to
On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 06:39:51PM +0000, Michael van Elst wrote:
> w...@hiwaay.net ("William A. Mahaffey III") writes:
>
> >Good thought, however it is a PS2 kbd & mouse. Thanks for your reply &
> w...@hiwaay.net ("William A. Mahaffey III") writes:
>
> >TIA for any new clues.
>
>
> If PS2 hardware is detected (even when not really functional),
> it prevents an USB keyboard from becoming the console keyboard.
>
Does this mean that if a MB has a PS2 combo (one slot for whether a
> it prevents an USB keyboard from becoming the console keyboard.
>
keyboard or a mouse) and that a mouse is connected to it, one has no
keyboard at least on console?
That may explain some queer behaviors I had. But, in general, I had
queer behavior with USB devices with NetBSD (not to mention that on a
dual boot node---Windows being the other one---it is impossible to have
a sane boot after running Windows without cold booting; I don't know
what Windows does with the BIOS and the hardware settings, but it
results in havoc).
--
Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com>
http://www.kergis.com/
http://www.arts-po.fr/
Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C
Thierry Laronde <tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com>
http://www.kergis.com/
http://www.arts-po.fr/
Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C
Robert Elz
Jul 15, 2015, 1:37:48 AM7/15/15
to
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2015 21:57:46 -0453
From: "William A. Mahaffey III" <w...@hiwaay.net>
Message-ID: <55A47933...@hiwaay.net>
| Hmmmmm .... I *think* that's where I am now, from earlier today & a few
| days ago (from boot attempt from disks, *not* USB):
Sorry, have not been looking at mail for (almost) 24 hours... And yes,
you are there now. The last I saw you reported you were failing to boot
at all, obviously that has been fixed, and I missed it.
| Am I looking for the word 'autoconfigure' explicitly ?
No, just the messages where all the hardware is listed. The "boot device"
(etc) lines you showed appear right at (or near) the end of the autoconfig
process.
Since you're at that stage, do what Christos suggested, boot from the
USB, and do the "raidctl -A softroot raid0" (or if the system you're
using is old enough that it doesn't recognise "softroot" then use just "root")
You already tested that what's on the root partition seems to be all OK,
so with this, at the very least, you should get to the state where you can
get to single user mode, even if there's still something not configured
correctly that prevents multi-user mode working correctly.
Also, to answer a later message ... the boot time messages do get saved to
a file - but for that to happen, the filesystem needs to exist first, and
for you that hasn't happened (as far as the kernel is concerned) yet.
Until after you have a mounted root filesystem there is nowhere available
to put a file, so all that data is just buffered in RAM, waiting for later
to get written out - that happens as part of the later boot process.
But it doesn't matter, aside from the boot time keyboard problem, I suspect
everything will work now, or be very close to it.
kre
From: "William A. Mahaffey III" <w...@hiwaay.net>
Message-ID: <55A47933...@hiwaay.net>
| Hmmmmm .... I *think* that's where I am now, from earlier today & a few
| days ago (from boot attempt from disks, *not* USB):
you are there now. The last I saw you reported you were failing to boot
at all, obviously that has been fixed, and I missed it.
| Am I looking for the word 'autoconfigure' explicitly ?
(etc) lines you showed appear right at (or near) the end of the autoconfig
process.
Since you're at that stage, do what Christos suggested, boot from the
USB, and do the "raidctl -A softroot raid0" (or if the system you're
using is old enough that it doesn't recognise "softroot" then use just "root")
You already tested that what's on the root partition seems to be all OK,
so with this, at the very least, you should get to the state where you can
get to single user mode, even if there's still something not configured
correctly that prevents multi-user mode working correctly.
Also, to answer a later message ... the boot time messages do get saved to
a file - but for that to happen, the filesystem needs to exist first, and
for you that hasn't happened (as far as the kernel is concerned) yet.
Until after you have a mounted root filesystem there is nowhere available
to put a file, so all that data is just buffered in RAM, waiting for later
to get written out - that happens as part of the later boot process.
But it doesn't matter, aside from the boot time keyboard problem, I suspect
everything will work now, or be very close to it.
kre
William A. Mahaffey III
Jul 15, 2015, 10:39:36 AM7/15/15
to
rebooted & .... it worked :-) !!!! *Hooooray* !!!! Much setup to do, but
I think I am off to the races. Thanks to the list for all the help. I
will have more questions no doubt, but I am up & running now :-) ....
I'd still like to figure out what was going wrong before, but that can
wait for now. Thanks again.
--
William A. Mahaffey III
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The M1 Garand is without doubt the finest implement of war
ever devised by man."
-- Gen. George S. Patton Jr.
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