What makes NetBSD special?
Daniel Carrera
I hope that this question is not off topic in this list. I thought of
writing on the netbsd-advocacy list, but that list appears to be mostly
dead.
Anyway, I think I have a reasonable idea of how "BSD" compares with
Linux, thanks to this great article:
http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/01
So that's not what I'm here for. What I wish for is a comparison between
NetBSD and other BSD's. In particular FreeBSD since that is the more
popular one. I spent some time googling for a comparison, but I couldn't
find anything with a lot of substance. Yes, I know that NetBSD runs on
anything from a toaster upward and FreeBSD is supposed to be very fast.
Neither of these is a major issue for me, I only have an x86 and my 2
year-old laptop is fast enough for me.
So, what I'm looking for is the difference in actual usage. For example,
I spent this weekend running NetBSD and FreeBBSD under emulation. I
noticed that I like NetBSD's "pkgin" much better than pkg_add; maybe it
reminds me of apt-get. But FreeBSD has more packages. In particular,
FreeBSD has Chromium which is my favourite browser, but presumably
NetBSD will have it "soon" (it is currently in pkgsrc-wip).
Other than pkgin and chromium, I haven't yet seen much of a difference.
I had to put in a similar amount of effort to get each one setup.
What I use my computer for:
- Desktop / workstation.
- Science (astrophysics): LaTeX, Perl, GCC, GFortran.
- General: Gnome, Chromium, Thunderbird.
I think that covers me as a first-order approximation. So, for instance,
I won't be interested in server features or deployment.
Based on this, do you have any thoughts to share about what makes NetBSD
different from other BSDs?
Thanks for the help.
Cheers,
Daniel.
--
I'm not overweight, I'm undertall.
--
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Thomas Adam
> So, what I'm looking for is the difference in actual usage. For
> example, I spent this weekend running NetBSD and FreeBBSD under
> emulation. I noticed that I like NetBSD's "pkgin" much better than
> pkg_add; maybe it reminds me of apt-get. But FreeBSD has more
pkgin has FreeBSD support as well, FWIW.
-- Thomas Adam
--
"Deep in my heart I wish I was wrong. But deep in my heart I know I am
not." -- Morrissey ("Girl Least Likely To" -- off of Viva Hate.)
Daniel Carrera
> On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 10:47:31PM +0200, Daniel Carrera wrote:
>> example, I spent this weekend running NetBSD and FreeBBSD under
>> emulation. I noticed that I like NetBSD's "pkgin" much better than
>> pkg_add; maybe it reminds me of apt-get. But FreeBSD has more
>
Interesting. I couldn't find it. I even searched for it on
freebsd.org/cgi/ports.cig
Thomas Adam
> On 07/31/2011 10:51 PM, Thomas Adam wrote:
> >On Sun, Jul 31, 2011 at 10:47:31PM +0200, Daniel Carrera wrote:
> >>example, I spent this weekend running NetBSD and FreeBBSD under
> >>emulation. I noticed that I like NetBSD's "pkgin" much better than
> >>pkg_add; maybe it reminds me of apt-get. But FreeBSD has more
> >
>
> Interesting. I couldn't find it. I even searched for it on
> freebsd.org/cgi/ports.cig
It's in the CVS version of pkgin, which for obvious reasons won't be listed
on FreeBSD's ports listing, as a newer pkgin hasn't been released yet.
-- Thomas Adam
--
"Deep in my heart I wish I was wrong. But deep in my heart I know I am
not." -- Morrissey ("Girl Least Likely To" -- off of Viva Hate.)
--
Andy Ruhl
> So, what I'm looking for is the difference in actual usage. For example, I
There isn't much difference in actual use. It's some minor differences
in package management for the most part.
The difference for the lay person is functionality and supported
hardware. NetBSD is ahead as far as number of platforms, but FreeBSD
has all of the really popular ones as far as I remember. FreeBSD also
has support for ZFS which some people consider important.
This is what makes NetBSD totally worth it to me:
cvs -d <cvs server> update -PAd -r<release you're using> src
cd src
./build.sh release
Then you can install/upgrade your OS from that. It's so easy to
maintain the OS. I know others strive for this simplicity, but they
aren't quite there yet in my opinion.
I was using NetBSD on a Cobalt in "production" for years up until the
hardware started getting flaky. You can do that with Linux, but you
can't do it with another BSD. I'm trying to switch to a Seagate
Dockstar (Sheevaplug), and it's mostly working so far. Only FreeBSD is
close, but it's still pretty hokey to get it working compared to
NetBSD. There is 1 person working on FreeBSD for this device, and
they've got their work cut out. The NetBSD port mostly "just works". I
like this.
Andy
Jean-Yves Migeon
> Based on this, do you have any thoughts to share about what makes NetBSD
> different from other BSDs?
Speaking for me:
- decent Xen support, stabilized way before it got into Linux vanilla
(years). The "ugliness" required to port to Xen hypervisor was kept in
the x86 MD parts, so yes, even this late, having a clean abstraction
between MD and MI does matter.
- lately, all the work done on virtualization/componentization of the
kernel (rump especially), and the tendency to offer all kind of services
accessible through libraries, which provides enough flexibility without
the need to reinvent the wheel every time, especially when you consider
the tendency to "we need to isolate foo from bar, what can we do? Create
two Linux compartments."
- a build.sh script that helps generating images from scratch src, and
handles all the (cross-)compiling + building automagically. Very
practical with point #1.
- lately, the push for automated test runs. It's far from being
exhaustive, but brought a lot of confidence to the OS, IMHO.
> Thanks for the help.
--
Jean-Yves Migeon
jeanyve...@free.fr
Daniel Carrera
>>> pkgin has FreeBSD support as well, FWIW.
>>
>> Interesting. I couldn't find it. I even searched for it on
>> freebsd.org/cgi/ports.cig
>
> on FreeBSD's ports listing, as a newer pkgin hasn't been released yet.
Ok, found it: http://pkgin.net/
This week I'll try it on FreeBSD, thanks.
Daniel Carrera
> There isn't much difference in actual use. It's some minor differences
> in package management for the most part.
>
> The difference for the lay person is functionality and supported
> hardware. NetBSD is ahead as far as number of platforms, but FreeBSD
> has all of the really popular ones as far as I remember. FreeBSD also
> has support for ZFS which some people consider important.
Who has better support for peripherals and components? I'm thinking
printers, digital cameras, webcams, graphics cards, etc. I did find this
page:
http://www.netbsd.org/support/hardware/
But as far as I can tell it doesn't cover AGP graphics cards, printers,
etc. Is there another page that covers printers, webcams and so on?
>
> This is what makes NetBSD totally worth it to me:
>
> cvs -d<cvs server> update -PAd -r<release you're using> src
> cd src
> ./build.sh release
>
> Then you can install/upgrade your OS from that. It's so easy to
> maintain the OS. I know others strive for this simplicity, but they
> aren't quite there yet in my opinion.
Interesting. Thanks.
MTS Consult
But it is not running on Toasters :-)
2011/8/1 Daniel Carrera <dcar...@gmail.com>
> On 07/31/2011 11:10 PM, Andy Ruhl wrote:
>
>> There isn't much difference in actual use. It's some minor differences
>> in package management for the most part.
>>
>> The difference for the lay person is functionality and supported
>> hardware. NetBSD is ahead as far as number of platforms, but FreeBSD
>> has all of the really popular ones as far as I remember. FreeBSD also
>> has support for ZFS which some people consider important.
>>
>
> Who has better support for peripherals and components? I'm thinking
> printers, digital cameras, webcams, graphics cards, etc. I did find this
> page:
>
>
http://www.netbsd.org/support/**hardware/<http://www.netbsd.org/support/hardw
are/>
>
> But as far as I can tell it doesn't cover AGP graphics cards, printers,
> etc. Is there another page that covers printers, webcams and so on?
>
>
>
>
>> This is what makes NetBSD totally worth it to me:
>>
>> cvs -d<cvs server> update -PAd -r<release you're using> src
>> cd src
>> ./build.sh release
>>
>> Then you can install/upgrade your OS from that. It's so easy to
>> maintain the OS. I know others strive for this simplicity, but they
>> aren't quite there yet in my opinion.
>>
>
> Interesting. Thanks.
>
>
> Daniel.
> --
> I'm not overweight, I'm undertall.
>
--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
i.A. Markus Maiwald
Apple for Works - *NIX for Network - Windows for Solitaire
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so naturally he does not employ security.