"Games"

[Halfscan]

>> I said nothing about "winning"... just that a game by definition is a form
>>of sport or competition. Many people will tell you "it's not whether you win
>>or lose... but how you play the game".
>
>Sport or competition ARE about winning. Otherwise..why to compete? :)
>

Ever hear of "for the fun of it"? Ask 100 non-professional atheletes or
hobby-only competitors, and at least 99 of them will tell you that fun is
their main reason.. that they actually *enjoy* the game/sport/etc. The *win*
is a bonus. Players who obsess about winning tend to quit playing long
before those who do it for our own personal enjoyment.

>> Every time dice are brought into play in D&D/UA, or a check is made to an
>>ability score, or a puzzle is presented that needs solved, etc... a "mini-
>game" is being played out.
>
>Any dicerolls are pure luck.

It's called playing the odds. Pure luck (ie random chance) plays a factor
in many games... craps, cards, Monopoly, the coin toss in football. It's
part of what makes the game unpredictable. A player (or team) uses his
experience, resources, and skills to try to either overcome the random
elements, or exploit them in his favor (yet another contest within *the game*).

>Role playing game is supposed to be about cooperation, not competition.

It's about both... it's about "friendly competition".
As a DM it was my job to _challenge_ and _entertain_ my players.
As a player, it was my job to overcome the _challenges_ that were
presented by the DM (small *wins* within the larger *game*), as well as
entertain my fellow players.

Final note: RPG does, indeed, stand for Role Playing *GAME*.

-Half

[Harri Polsa]

> Final note: RPG does, indeed, stand for Role Playing *GAME*.

But a final final note: these RPGs can be played in so many ways.
Keyword being 'played' (as in something Billy Shakespeare might
have wrote).

Harri Polsa
hyp...@netti.fi
Pointless arguing since the dawn of time :D

[Halfscan]

>> Final note: RPG does, indeed, stand for Role Playing *GAME*.
>
> But a final final note: these RPGs can be played in so many ways.
>Keyword being 'played' (as in something Billy Shakespeare might
>have wrote).

You mean taken credit for writing ;)

-Half