The Perfect Debian / Personal Computer
John and Kristy Woodill
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Well i have given up on trying to configured Windows / Linux together. =
I can't get the hardware right and don't feel like fucking with it =
anymore. I wanna build a computer just for linux-debian. I know what =
kinda motherboard and KMD processor i wanna get but could someone please =
list what i should use for a modem, sound card, video card that will =
configure perfect and won't require much work but installing it and =
configuring X Windows. Thanks to all those who respond!
Andrew J Woodill
woo...@yta.attmil.af.mil
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well i have given up on trying to =
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Windows / Linux together. I can't get the hardware right and don't =
feel=20
like fucking with it anymore. I wanna build a computer just for=20
linux-debian. I know what kinda motherboard and KMD processor i =
wanna get=20
but could someone please list what i should use for a modem, sound card, =
video=20
card that will configure perfect and won't require much work but =
installing it=20
and configuring X Windows. Thanks to all those who =
respond!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Andrew J Woodill</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"mailto:woo...@yta.attmil.af.mil">woo...@yta.attmil.af.mil</A></=
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Michael Danicich
modem worked great up until I got DSL. :)
Sound Card: I've only used a Creative AWE64 Gold card. It has worked almost flawlessly using the Sound Blaster driver.
Video Card: Matrox makes some decent cards that are well-supported under Linux. I've also used ATI cards, but I've had some troubles
with them under Linux. They all worked eventually, but it took some work to get there.
Mike
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>
> Well i have given up on trying to configured Windows / Linux together. I can't get the hardware right and don't feel like fucking with it
anymore. I wanna build a computer just for linux-debian. I know what kinda motherboard and KMD processor i wanna get but could
someone please list what i should use for a modem, sound card, video card that will configure perfect and won't require much work but
installing it and configuring X Windows. Thanks to all those who respond!
>
> Andrew J Woodill
> woo...@yta.attmil.af.mil
>
>
--
Renai LeMay
Personally, the best price/performance graphics card for Linux is the Geforce
2 mx from Nvidia - about $160 Australian. You will, however, to get good
performance, have to download and install the drivers yourself, and run
unstable or woody, as they both have XFree86 > 4.0x.
I would say the best sound card out there is the Creative Sound Blaster Live.
In terms of modem I don't know, but you probably want to get an IBM Deskstar
HD as I have heard they kick the competition out of town.
(Well that's what I'm getting when I get some money)
good luck,
Renai
On Wednesday 25 April 2001 04:55, John and Kristy Woodill wrote:
> Well i have given up on trying to configured Windows / Linux together. I
> can't get the hardware right and don't feel like fucking with it anymore.
> I wanna build a computer just for linux-debian. I know what kinda
> motherboard and KMD processor i wanna get but could someone please list
> what i should use for a modem, sound card, video card that will configure
> perfect and won't require much work but installing it and configuring X
> Windows. Thanks to all those who respond!
>
> Andrew J Woodill
> woo...@yta.attmil.af.mil
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D. Hoyem
For a Video card I have the Matrox Millenium G200
with 8MB of Mem. I have used this card with Slcakware,
Mandrake and Debian. It was setup perfect on
installation with Debian 2.2r.2. www.pricewatch.com
has them for $49 plus $10 shipping.
For the Modem, and I'll take a ton of hits for this,
I recommend the Lucent modem, yes it is a winmodem but
it puts the external Rockwell 56I that I have to
shame. A Linux driver is available and one of the
developers of the driver uses Debian with the 2.4.
kernel. This driver is in the continuning development
stage, and is a breeze to install.
Don
--- John and Kristy Woodill <woo...@yta.attmil.ne.jp>
wrote:
> Well i have given up on trying to configured Windows
> / Linux together. I can't get the hardware right
> and don't feel like fucking with it anymore. I
> wanna build a computer just for linux-debian. I
> know what kinda motherboard and KMD processor i
> wanna get but could someone please list what i
> should use for a modem, sound card, video card that
> will configure perfect and won't require much work
> but installing it and configuring X Windows. Thanks
> to all those who respond!
>
> Andrew J Woodill
> woo...@yta.attmil.af.mil
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
ray p
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The big question that you don't talk about is how much are you willing to s=
pend and what flavor of Debian (stable, testing, etc) are you going to be r=
unning.
The answer to this question would vary quite a bit based on that for exampl=
e if money is not object and you want to run testing. Then whatever Nvidia'=
s newest card is would be the answer and if you want easy to set up and con=
figure for a modem get a external 3com modem simply the best. I still like =
my SBLive but know that there are other cards with better Linux support. Bu=
t whatever else you do I would encourge you to spend the extra few bucks fo=
r an external modem. From what I have seen they *all* work better than anyt=
hing internal. Have fun.=20
> wrote:
> > Well i have given up on trying to configured Windows
> > / Linux together. I can't get the hardware right
> > and don't feel like fucking with it anymore. I
> > wanna build a computer just for linux-debian. I
> > know what kinda motherboard and KMD processor i
> > wanna get but could someone please list what i
> > should use for a modem, sound card, video card that
> > will configure perfect and won't require much work
> > but installing it and configuring X Windows. Thanks
> > to all those who respond!
> >=20
> > Andrew J Woodill
> > woo...@yta.attmil.af.mil
> >=20
>=20
>=20
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>=20
>=20
> --=20
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-us...@lists.debian.org=20
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listm...@lists.debian=
.org
>=20
>=20
--=20
Random numbers are to computers what freewill is to humans. RAH
I'm afraid it is you who are mistaken about a great many things. Palpatine
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Denzil Kelly
Video card: Matrox Millennium G200, G400, or G450
modem: doesn't matter really, just make sure it's
external, and make sure that is isn't a winmodem.
For a guide to building a cheap linux box refer to:
http://www.math.sunysb.edu/~comech/tools/CheapBox.html
hth
--- John and Kristy Woodill <woo...@yta.attmil.ne.jp>
wrote:
> Well i have given up on trying to configured Windows
> / Linux together. I can't get the hardware right
> and don't feel like fucking with it anymore. I
> wanna build a computer just for linux-debian. I
> know what kinda motherboard and KMD processor i
> wanna get but could someone please list what i
> should use for a modem, sound card, video card that
> will configure perfect and won't require much work
> but installing it and configuring X Windows. Thanks
> to all those who respond!
>
> Andrew J Woodill
> woo...@yta.attmil.af.mil
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
Hall Stevenson
> > / Linux together. I can't get the hardware right
> > and don't feel like fucking with it anymore. I
> > wanna build a computer just for linux-debian. I
> > know what kinda motherboard and KMD processor i
> > wanna get but could someone please list what i
> > should use for a modem, sound card, video card that
> > will configure perfect and won't require much work
> > but installing it and configuring X Windows. Thanks
> > to all those who respond!
> modem: doesn't matter really, just make sure it's
> external, and make sure that is isn't a winmodem.
So far, it seems that everyone has suggested avoiding internal modems
and getting an external one. Why ?? If someone is capable of building
their own PC, I'd hope they're also capable of reading the requirements
of a modem they purchase. I've used two or three different *internal*
modems with Linux with no problems. There are plenty out there that will
work just fine.
My current modem is a USR (pre-3Com days, I believe). It's a true v.90
modem, not "upgraded" from their 'X2" firmware. Most importantly, it
even has jumpers ! It does have PnP mode, and just so happens to ship
with the jumpers in that mode, but I always try and set my modems to (in
Dos-speak) Com2/IRQ3. I guess that's one benefit of an external. They
can't be PnP, can they ??
Regards
Hall
Robert Voigt
and they are really cheap nowadays.
b3
> and getting an external one. Why ?? If someone is capable of building
> their own PC, I'd hope they're also capable of reading the requirements
> of a modem they purchase. I've used two or three different *internal*
> modems with Linux with no problems. There are plenty out there that will
> work just fine.
Speaking from personal experience, I find having a set of modem lights a
godsend when trying to troubleshoot modem problems. There *are* programs
which can emulate them for internal modems, but it's much easier to just
HAVE the lights right there on the modem.
External modems have the best chance of NOT being a winmodem (I haven't seen
an external winmodem - do any exist?) - so a new buyer might be less likely
to come home with a winmodem than if they went to CompUSA/BestBuy/wherever
looking for an internal modem (I've noticed employees at these places are
typically VERY clueless, and even had it suggested to me that a winmodem was
"better" than a hardware modem because "it's made for Windows" (this after
I'd already asked the guy about linux compatibility, just to see what his
response would be ;P ).
I used to do phone support for a dial-up ISP, so I can tell you with
certainty that the problems people had with external modems were MUCH easier
to troubleshoot than internal ones. (If only for the fact that we could ask
"What kind of modem is it?" and get a MEANINGFUL response, rather than "It's
in my computer", and the afore-mentioned diagnostic lights =) )
Internal modems can work well - especially if you know what you're doing.
They can also be a pain in the arse, like most anything, if they don't work
right. BUT I will grant you that an internal modem would generally be
cheaper than a comparable external modem. I, too, have a couple old USR
internal modems (pre-winmodem days) that can still work quite well. That
doesn't mean that were I to buy a modem today that I would buy an internal...
With broadband connections becoming more popular, however, I see the modem
thing becoming less and less of an issue.
Just my 2 cents =)
-b3
Pann McCuaig
> IRQ3. I guess that's one benefit of an external. They
> can't be PnP, can they ??
Yup. My USR 56K external is recognized as P'n'P by Windoze if it's on
when I boot into that OS (sic).
Cheers,
Pann
--
geek by nature, Linux by choice L I N U X .~.
The Choice /V\
http://www.ourmanpann.com/linux/ of a GNU /( )\
Generation ^^-^^
Morgan Terry
[...]
> External modems have the best chance of NOT being a winmodem (I haven't seen
> an external winmodem - do any exist?) - so a new buyer might be less likely
though (unlike internal winmodems).
> to come home with a winmodem than if they went to CompUSA/BestBuy/wherever
> looking for an internal modem (I've noticed employees at these places are
> typically VERY clueless, and even had it suggested to me that a winmodem was
> "better" than a hardware modem because "it's made for Windows" (this after
> I'd already asked the guy about linux compatibility, just to see what his
> response would be ;P ).
My recommendation: Don't go to those places unless you know EXACTLY what
you want (i.e. Brand, Model, etc) because, as you said, they are
clueless. When I went to get a modem for my laptop (PCMCIA), the guy at
CompUSA just gave me a blank look when I asked if the model he showed my
was software-based (ie. a winmodem).
>
> I used to do phone support for a dial-up ISP, so I can tell you with
> certainty that the problems people had with external modems were MUCH easier
> to troubleshoot than internal ones. (If only for the fact that we could ask
> "What kind of modem is it?" and get a MEANINGFUL response, rather than "It's
> in my computer", and the afore-mentioned diagnostic lights =) )
>
> Internal modems can work well - especially if you know what you're doing.
> They can also be a pain in the arse, like most anything, if they don't work
> right. BUT I will grant you that an internal modem would generally be
> cheaper than a comparable external modem. I, too, have a couple old USR
> internal modems (pre-winmodem days) that can still work quite well. That
> doesn't mean that were I to buy a modem today that I would buy an internal...
My opinion is that internal modems make up in convenience what they give
in ease of troubleshooting. Really...how often do you have to trouble
shoot something with your modem? Probably not very often.
--
Morgan Terry
mte...@acsbps.com
It is easier to move a problem around (for example, by moving
the problem to a different part of the overall network
architecture) than it is to solve it. --RFC 1925
Jeff
the perfect deb computer huh? gimme the money and i'll
build it for you. :)
modem: good ol' u.s. robotics 56k external
sound card: i do fine with my soundblaster live!
video card: great looking with my voodoo 3
On Tuesday 24 April 2001 14:55, John and Kristy Woodill
wrote:
> Well i have given up on trying to configured Windows /
> Linux together. I can't get the hardware right and don't
> feel like fucking with it anymore. I wanna build a
> computer just for linux-debian. I know what kinda
> motherboard and KMD processor i wanna get but could
> someone please list what i should use for a modem, sound
> card, video card that will configure perfect and won't
> require much work but installing it and configuring X
> Windows. Thanks to all those who respond!
>
> Andrew J Woodill
> woo...@yta.attmil.af.mil
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--
jeff reed
system administrator
www.linuxbusca.com
jr...@linuxbusca.com
these two peanuts walk into a bar...
one was assaulted...
Mike Fedyk
> If you already have an internal modem you can use it,
> but if you were buying one get an external one. This
> is not really that big of an issue. I was assuming
> that you were building the box from scratch. One
> reason to avoid internal modems is because they are a
> heat source and they will increase the temperature
> inside the computer. Another reason is that if the
> modem hangs for some reason you will probably have to
> reboot the machine as there is no way to reset an
> internal modem. If this occurs with an external modem
> you can just turn it off and turn it back on.
>
I've never had any of my internal modems hang on me. Have you ever had this
happen to you?
Debian User Jean-Baptiste Note
avoid like hell the chipset realtek 8139, especially if you have a K7/VIA based motherboard.
avoid like hell DFE-530TX, only if you have a K7/VIA confguration.
I can tell you from experience on 3 <> computers that they either, do not run in a useable way (ie, have to ifup/ifdown every 30 sec when using the network)
or run bad (slowdowns all of a sudden, yet no intervention is required to get them back to work) or fill your kernel logs with tons of messages (netdev watchdog, I didn't try to modify the kernel source =))
Intel / 3Com rules.
--
I'm an occurence of the I love GNU virus.
Please help me spread.
Keith G. Murphy
>
>
> So far, it seems that everyone has suggested avoiding internal modems
> and getting an external one. Why ?? If someone is capable of building
> their own PC, I'd hope they're also capable of reading the requirements
> of a modem they purchase. I've used two or three different *internal*
> modems with Linux with no problems. There are plenty out there that will
> work just fine.
>
> My current modem is a USR (pre-3Com days, I believe). It's a true v.90
> modem, not "upgraded" from their 'X2" firmware.
I have an internal USR modem that goofed up when I would dual-boot.
Win95 would screw it up so that it would not work under Linux. *No*
initialization string would fix this; I had to power off the machine to
properly reset it.
(Amazing how Windows will goof up both my modem *and* printer, such that
they won't work under Linux without a power-down).
Perhaps I have missed a serial port setting or something, but I really
would not buy an internal modem again.
Yes, it is a later modem than yours. But the point is, "reading the
requirements" would not have avoided this problem for me.
Fortunately, I now have DSL! :-)
Hall Stevenson
> > modems and getting an external one. Why ?? If someone is
> > capable of building their own PC, I'd hope they're also capable
> > of reading the requirements of a modem they purchase.
> I have an internal USR modem that goofed up when I would dual-boot.
> Win95 would screw it up so that it would not work under Linux. *No*
> initialization string would fix this; I had to power off the machine
to
> properly reset it.
>
> (Amazing how Windows will goof up both my modem *and* printer, such
that
> they won't work under Linux without a power-down).
<snip>
> Yes, it is a later modem than yours. But the point is, "reading the
> requirements" would not have avoided this problem for me.
Not related... the "requirements" I'm referring to are the ones on the
box that say Windows 3.xx, 9x, NT, etc are required for the modem to
simply operate. Look for one that works in DOS and you should be okay.
Your problem sounds like a Plug-n-Play one. A similar problem occurs
with some network cards. Disable PnP on the card. Also, in your BIOS,
disable the "PnP Operating System" option if you have one. From what
I've read, that should read "Windows", not "PnP O/S".
> Fortunately, I now have DSL! :-)
So do I. I was using Mandrake when I got it hooked up and later switched
to Debian. At this point, I've never had to use my modem with Debian yet
!
Hall
Debian User Jean-Baptiste Note
They were based on realtek chipsets.
BUT is your ethernet card a 100Mbps, RTL8139 one ?
That one gave me real pain.
From what I could see on the various mailing lists regarding the subject,
I'm far from being alone in that case, and I mailed someone (I cant be
more precise, I lost the mail) that replied he had dropped altogether.
So did I after 3 weeks of painful efforts.
Keith G. Murphy
>
>
> Your problem sounds like a Plug-n-Play one. A similar problem occurs
> with some network cards. Disable PnP on the card. Also, in your BIOS,
> disable the "PnP Operating System" option if you have one. From what
> I've read, that should read "Windows", not "PnP O/S".
>
You see, the modem actually does work in the sense that you can send
'AT' strings to it and get 'OK''s back.
It's just that it never can dial and make a connection successfully. It
seems a more subtle problem than I would think you would have from an
PNP difficulty.
All the same, thanks! :-)
Mike Fedyk
> Hall Stevenson wrote:
> >
> >
> > Your problem sounds like a Plug-n-Play one. A similar problem occurs
> > with some network cards. Disable PnP on the card. Also, in your BIOS,
> > disable the "PnP Operating System" option if you have one. From what
> > I've read, that should read "Windows", not "PnP O/S".
> >
> Hmmm, I'll try it, but I have my doubts.
>
> You see, the modem actually does work in the sense that you can send
> 'AT' strings to it and get 'OK''s back.
>
> It's just that it never can dial and make a connection successfully. It
> seems a more subtle problem than I would think you would have from an
> PNP difficulty.
>
Linux serial driver will poll the buffer every several seconds.
The problem comes when there is more data than a simple at and response.
The card lifts an IRQ line, but the driver doesn't respond to it because it
is listening on another IRQ.
This could definitely, be a PnP problem.
Mike
David Wright
" Win95 would screw it up so that it would not work under Linux. *No*
" initialization string would fix this; I had to power off the machine to
" properly reset it."
Quoting Keith G. Murphy (keit...@mindspring.com):
> Hall Stevenson wrote:
> > Your problem sounds like a Plug-n-Play one.
> [...] I have my doubts.
>
> You see, the modem actually does work in the sense that you can send
> 'AT' strings to it and get 'OK''s back.
>
> It's just that it never can dial and make a connection successfully. It
> seems a more subtle problem than I would think you would have from an
> PNP difficulty.
Yes, this problem is exactly why I prefer external modems. I power
them through a clockwork switch which cuts the power for 15mins at
four in the morning.
In my case, it's not windows that causes the problem (I don't use it),
but just being left on 24/7 for more than a few days. The symptoms are
the same - everything (AT, ATDT, etc.) gets to the modem and is
reflected back, but the modem never goes off-hook.
In some cases, the modem has just answered an incoming call but fails
to call back, other times I just decide I want to dial out and it
won't. And, yes, it's common to all my USR modems (3 x 33k, 1 x 56k).
Cheers,
--
Email: d.wr...@open.ac.uk Tel: +44 1908 653 739 Fax: +44 1908 655 151
Snail: David Wright, Earth Science Dept., Milton Keynes, England, MK7 6AA
Disclaimer: These addresses are only for reaching me, and do not signify
official stationery. Views expressed here are either my own or plagiarised.
Keith G. Murphy
>
> * Mike Fedyk (mfe...@matchmail.com) [010426 15:39]:
> > On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 11:16:29AM -0500, Keith G. Murphy wrote:
> > > Hall Stevenson wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your problem sounds like a Plug-n-Play one. A similar problem occurs
> > > > with some network cards. Disable PnP on the card. Also, in your BIOS,
> > > > disable the "PnP Operating System" option if you have one. From what
> > > > I've read, that should read "Windows", not "PnP O/S".
> > > >
> > > Hmmm, I'll try it, but I have my doubts.
>
I'll try to get to it this weekend.
>
> > > You see, the modem actually does work in the sense that you can send
> > > 'AT' strings to it and get 'OK''s back.
> > >
> > > It's just that it never can dial and make a connection successfully. It
> > > seems a more subtle problem than I would think you would have from an
> > > PNP difficulty.
>
> Well, now you've went and given us more and *important* information. You
> left this out originally, didn't you ??
Partial justification: I was originally just trying to recommend against
an internal modem.
I had given up on my problem!
Keith G. Murphy
>
> On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 11:16:29AM -0500, Keith G. Murphy wrote:
> >
> > You see, the modem actually does work in the sense that you can send
> > 'AT' strings to it and get 'OK''s back.
> >
> > It's just that it never can dial and make a connection successfully. It
> > seems a more subtle problem than I would think you would have from an
> > PNP difficulty.
> >
> Actually, you will get a response if you have the wrong IRQ, because the
> Linux serial driver will poll the buffer every several seconds.
>
> The problem comes when there is more data than a simple at and response.
> The card lifts an IRQ line, but the driver doesn't respond to it because it
> is listening on another IRQ.
>
> This could definitely, be a PnP problem.
>
response to a command is pulled off by the driver polling the card's
buffer?
But incoming data is "pushed" by the card, using an IRQ?
It does make sense, now that I think about it.
Wow, that's interesting. I had no idea it worked like that. I'm
definitely going to try disabling PnP, if I can.
Thanks for the input. And thanks to Hall Stevenson as well.
Hall Stevenson
> dual-boot.
> " Win95 would screw it up so that it would not work under
> Linux.
> "*No* initialization string would fix this; I had to power off the
> machine to " properly reset it."
I have an internal USR modem that had *no* problems with
dual-booting. Quite simply, it always worked.
I still say the original poster's problem is related to PnP. The
modem ships from the factory in PnP mode and when used with Windows
(and additionally if the BIOS is set for a PnP O/S), it will be
assigned whatever free IRQs and COM ports are available. A "soft"
boot, i.e. rebooting into Linux likely doesn't "reset" the modem and
it keeps these odd settings.
In my case, I disable PnP and use the jumpers to assign the modem to
COM2, IRQ3. Since that IRQ is the "normal" one for that COM port (or
TTYS1, I think), linux finds it just fine.
Regards
Hall
Mike Fedyk
> To make sure I understand this, what you are telling me is that a
> response to a command is pulled off by the driver polling the card's
> buffer?
>
> But incoming data is "pushed" by the card, using an IRQ?
>
> It does make sense, now that I think about it.
>
> Wow, that's interesting. I had no idea it worked like that. I'm
> definitely going to try disabling PnP, if I can.
>
> Thanks for the input. And thanks to Hall Stevenson as well.
If the buffer isn't emptied by the driver, it will overflow, and you will
loose data. Starting a connection creates enough data to cause an overflow
and that's why it fails.
If the driver is listening on the right IRQ, it will empty the buffer
because the card throws an IRQ whenever it gets data, and
in most cases, no data is lost.
Mike