email threat

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br...@perens.com

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Apr 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/6/99
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Today I received the following threat in e-mail from Eric Raymond. The message
was copied to the Silicon Valley Linux User's Group officers, who you may
consult regarding its authenticity. The police have been notified.

Because I know that Eric is a firearms enthusiast, for my own protection,
I feel the best strategy is for me to publicize the threat widely.

Thanks

Bruce Perens

> Damn straight I took it personally. And if you ever again behave like
> that kind of disruptive asshole in public, insult me, and jeopardize
> the interests of our entire tribe, I'll take it just as personally --
> and I will find a way to make you regret it. Watch your step.

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thomas lakofski

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Apr 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/6/99
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On 5 Apr 1999 br...@perens.com wrote:

[ESR wrote:]

> > Damn straight I took it personally. And if you ever again behave like
> > that kind of disruptive asshole in public, insult me, and jeopardize
> > the interests of our entire tribe, I'll take it just as personally --
> > and I will find a way to make you regret it. Watch your step.

I think that most people in the Linux community will find this behaviour
objectionable in the extreme. If ESR wanted to rally people round in his
defense ('understand my job', etc.), he's just taken one of his many
firearms and shot himself in the foot.

It's fairly obvious who is 'behav[ing] like [a] disruptive asshole,' and
'jeopardiz[ing] the interests of our entire tribe.'

-thomas

......
please forgive my abrupt ending hre - but my conection is
xtrememleyyhiclmelyey BAD hiccuppy etc must sign off -
EF D8 33 68 B3 E3 E9 D2 C1 3E 51 22 8A AA 7B 98 umbra (!)

Vincent Murphy

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Apr 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/6/99
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On Mon, Apr 05, 1999 at 10:48:42PM -0000, br...@perens.com wrote:
> Today I received the following threat in e-mail from Eric Raymond. The message

is this for-real?

-vinny

hom...@vlc.servicom.es

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Apr 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/6/99
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br...@perens.com dixit:

> Today I received the following threat in e-mail from Eric Raymond. The message

> was copied to the Silicon Valley Linux User's Group officers, who you may
> consult regarding its authenticity. The police have been notified.
>
> Because I know that Eric is a firearms enthusiast, for my own protection,
> I feel the best strategy is for me to publicize the threat widely.

Forgive my ignorance here (and my curiousity) but just ... who is Eric
Raymond, and who are you (or what you've done/said) so that he threatens you?

Regards

Horacio
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br...@perens.com

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Apr 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/6/99
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From: hom...@vlc.servicom.es

> Forgive my ignorance here (and my curiousity) but just ... who is Eric
> Raymond, and who are you (or what you've done/said) so that he threatens you?

I'm tempted to say "he's just a nut", but he's the head of the Open Source
Initiative. What annoyed him is that I cricicized the Apple license. The full
text of the threatening email can be found at
http://perens.com/Articles/Threat.html .

Thanks

Bruce

John Hasler

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Apr 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/6/99
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bruce writes:
> Because I know that Eric is a firearms enthusiast, for my own protection,
> I feel the best strategy is for me to publicize the threat widely.

And quotes:


> Damn straight I took it personally. And if you ever again behave like
> that kind of disruptive asshole in public, insult me, and jeopardize
> the interests of our entire tribe, I'll take it just as personally --
> and I will find a way to make you regret it. Watch your step.

While this is certainly objectionable, it is not a threat of violence.
Notifying the police is totally unjustified.
--
John Hasler This posting is in the public domain.
jo...@dhh.gt.org Do with it what you will.
Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind.
Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address.

Rick Macdonald

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Apr 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/6/99
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On 5 Apr 1999 br...@perens.com wrote:

> From: hom...@vlc.servicom.es
> > Forgive my ignorance here (and my curiousity) but just ... who is Eric
> > Raymond, and who are you (or what you've done/said) so that he threatens you?
>
> I'm tempted to say "he's just a nut", but he's the head of the Open Source
> Initiative. What annoyed him is that I cricicized the Apple license. The full
> text of the threatening email can be found at
> http://perens.com/Articles/Threat.html .

Is the quote below what pissed him off? He does say that you singled him
out whereas the decision, he says, was made by the entire board of 5
members.

I gather that there's more to it all. Eric is right that the entire board
isn't mentioned as having made the decision, but on the other hand, I
think it's worded quite politely and sincerely.

Bruce's open letter stated: "

"We also regret to note that that Eric Raymond, with the best of
intentions, jumped a little too fast to embrace the APSL in his enthusiasm
to welcome Apple to our community. He placed the Open Source designation
on a license that wasn't quite ready for that. We invite Eric and other
members of the Free Software community to join us in requesting the few
simple changes to the APSL that we have outlined in this letter."

...RickM...

Ian Keith Setford

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Apr 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/6/99
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Bruce, if you are actually in fear for your life the police are the right
forum for this. It appears that you are trying to once again publicly
defame Eric in front of the Linux community. This message is about
embarrassment and character assassination hid beneath a patina of fear.

Regardless of what your differences are with Eric this message should not
have been posted to this list.

-Ian

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>

______________________________________________________________________
Ian Setford ia...@unt.edu

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Ed Slocomb

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Apr 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/6/99
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> Regardless of what your differences are with Eric this message should not
> have been posted to this list.
>

May I politely suggest that you reconsider that?

Eric should not have written the letter to begin with. An apology to Bruce is long overdue. Every one of Bruce's criticisms of the APSL has been general, civil, and focused on the issues at hand. Eric's rebuttals and articles have been almost entirely ad-hominim, vituperative, and unrelated to the APSL.

This is ugly, yes, but Eric should realize by now that he can not assume that his communications with Bruce will remain private, especially if they contain threats made in the name of "our entire tribe." Read the full text of the letter. The most ominous part of it is the quote at the end. Let's all hope, for the sake of civil discourse, that it was auto-generated. If it was, then Eric needs to prune his .sig/fortune file, and we can drop this and move on.

Full text of message:
http://perens.com/Articles/Threat.html

Ed

John Hasler

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Apr 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/6/99
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Ed Slocomb writes:
> The most ominous part of it is the quote at the end. Let's
> all hope, for the sake of civil discourse, that it was auto-generated.

It almost certainly was. Eric has some sort of random sig generator.


--
John Hasler This posting is in the public domain.
jo...@dhh.gt.org Do with it what you will.
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Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address.

Mal...@aol.com

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Apr 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/6/99
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I have two things to say about this, or maybe three:

1) Am I the only one that is tired of hearing about the bickering between
these two? and on a Debian-user list? and on a public mailing list?

2) If the authorities have been notified - fine, leave us out of it.

3) Don't make judgements until you know the whole story (and, no, I don't).
A clip here, a snippet there, an you can make anyone believe anything you
want them to.

-Jay

In a message dated Mon, 5 Apr 1999 7:16:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, thomas
lakofski <to...@88.net> writes:

> On 5 Apr 1999 br...@perens.com wrote:
>

> [ESR wrote:]


>
> > > Damn straight I took it personally. And if you ever again behave like
> > > that kind of disruptive asshole in public, insult me, and jeopardize
> > > the interests of our entire tribe, I'll take it just as personally --
> > > and I will find a way to make you regret it. Watch your step.
>

> I think that most people in the Linux community will find this behaviour
> objectionable in the extreme. If ESR wanted to rally people round in his
> defense ('understand my job', etc.), he's just taken one of his many
> firearms and shot himself in the foot.
>
> It's fairly obvious who is 'behav[ing] like [a] disruptive asshole,' and

> 'jeopardiz[ing] the interests of our entire tribe.'

Kenneth Scharf

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Apr 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/6/99
to

>I'm tempted to say "he's just a nut", but he's the >head of the Open
>Source
>Initiative. What annoyed him is that I cricicized the >Apple license.
>The full
>text of the threatening email can be found at
>http://perens.com/Articles/Threat.html .

I hope you two can work out your differences before someone posts the
full text of this on slash-dot or someother public linux place. This
sounds like just the kind of thing that Bill Gates would like to get
his hand on.


===
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http://www.qsl.net/wa2mze

Debian Gnu Linux, Live Free or .....


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Britton Kerin

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Apr 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/6/99
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> bruce writes:
> > Because I know that Eric is a firearms enthusiast, for my own protection,
> > I feel the best strategy is for me to publicize the threat widely.
>
> And quotes:
> > Damn straight I took it personally. And if you ever again behave like
> > that kind of disruptive asshole in public, insult me, and jeopardize
> > the interests of our entire tribe, I'll take it just as personally --
> > and I will find a way to make you regret it. Watch your step.
>
> While this is certainly objectionable, it is not a threat of violence.
> Notifying the police is totally unjustified.

True. And however objectionable it may be it was at least private. Now
we have notified not only the entire debian list of the scraggly side of
two of our most prominent figures, but also the police as well? What
happens when the press latches onto this one? Will we end up being looked
at as a crazed bunch of high-tech Montana Freeman? When the leader or
representative of a group is stigmatized as a dangerous gun nut this rubs
off on the rest of the group, so please be careful what you say.

And both you and Eric should know better than to assume that anything you
say will remain private for long. You both have movie star status in
software circles: more people know your names than don't. I suggest to
both of you that you refrain from writing *anything* as inflammatory as
either of the messages in your latest exchange, public or private.


Britton

Keith Beattie

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Apr 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/7/99
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On Tue, Apr 06, 1999 at 11:52:30AM -0700, Britton Kerin wrote:

> When the leader or
> representative of a group is stigmatized as a dangerous gun nut this rubs
> off on the rest of the group, so please be careful what you say.

Ah, but this is one of the reasons why the open source / free software
movement is so interesting: there is no clear leader and there never
can be. There can be (and certianlly are) those who are able to
describe the movement, but none that could claim to lead it. I'm
reminded of that 'herding cats' analogy to managing programmers... :)

Just so long as it is still 'free' and people are willing to work on
it, the loudest voice the free software community will ever have is
the software itself, good or bad. This freedom gives it the
tremendiously unique property of being immune to: bad press, good
press, bad leaders, good leaders, bullets, monopolies, law suits, etc.

ksb

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