Peak LIRR train times

[Christine]

Hi there,

A guy who uses one of my apps emailed me today to let me know that the 4:03 p.m. train from Penn Station to Sayville leaving today (4.8.2016), is listed as off peak. In my app, I list it as a peak train. This is because of the information about peak trains that is listed here:

http://web.mta.info/lirr/about/TicketInfo/#Types

'Peak Fares are charged during business rush hours, on any weekday train scheduled to arrive in NYC terminals between 6 and 10 AM or depart NYC terminals between 4 and 8 PM.'

It is departing from an NYC terminal between 4 and 8 pm. Why would it be listed as off peak?

Also, where is the correct place to requests for new MTA data feeds? I thought it was this group, but I haven't heard anything back regarding my request for an LIRR elevator/escalator status feed. Thanks!

- Christine

[Patrick O'Hara]

There is more to the LIRR’s definition of when peak fares apply, and the full definition is not clearly conveyed on the website.  The following is the full definition of AM and PM Peak from the LIRR’s passenger tariff:

The key part that is missing from the website is “and/or their connections”.  While the 4:03pm train to Babylon leaves New York after 4:00p, it’s Brooklyn connection departs Atlantic Terminal at 3:56p, before 4:00p, making both off-peak trains.  Since the first “peak” train doesn’t leave Brooklyn until 4:16p, this makes the 4:00p train to Huntington, the 4:03p train to Babylon, the 4:09p train to Farmingdale, and the 5:10p Babylon-Speonk trains all “off-peak” trains.  Likewise, the 7:01a train from Montauk on Summer Mondays is also off-peak per this definition, since its connections arrive New York and Brooklyn after 10:00a.

To complicate it further, the 4:06p train to Montauk and the 4:12p train to Massapequa Park don’t stop at Jamaica, so they don’t have connections, so they’re considered “peak” trains.

You might just have to build in an exception that says those five trains are off-peak, not peak.  There’s no real clean way to phrase the definition so that it catches all of the exceptions.

…patrick…

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[John L]

The 4:03 is indeed marked as Off Peak and I believe incorrectly.

I will forward this to the appropriate folks.

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[John L]

Hi Patrick,

Yes if the trip were in one of the outer stations and not Penn Station as the Origin, I would agree.

For instance, a shuttle from Huntington to Port Jefferson with out a connection is an off peak train. With the connection from a peak train, that makes the connecting train a peak train as well.

In this case, it is clear that there is something funny going on.

[Patrick O'Hara]

Hi Mr. Larsen,

My understanding is that since these trains have connections at Jamaica with off-peak trains from Brooklyn and Hunterspoint Avenue they are off-peak trains as well.  The tariff also has this note buried in a different section:



The branch timetables also do not indicate these trains as peak trains like all of the others:




I confirmed that train 2705 (7:01a train from Montauk, arrives HPA 9:57a) is definitely off-peak with the railroad personally last summer after some trian crews were charging other riders step-up fares in error.  These trains are also listed in TrainTime and Schedules & Fares as off-peak trains, and any time I’ve ridden them off-peak fares have applied, but that is just from experience.  Whatever the official policy is it would be appreciated if it was communicated consistently!

…patrick…

[John L]

As I said to Christine, I am sending this on to confirm. I am not disputing the claim Patrick, merely trying to get the best information to answer a question.

Since the transfers.txt really does not work for the commuter railroads and the trips.txt do not have a peak designation, it would be very difficult to build a rule for either case described anyway.

If there were a peak indicator in the GTFS spec for the trip, comparing and having the off peak always win would be the simplest rule. With that said, you could build an algorithm to use the existing times to determine the peak indicator and then do this to get the "peakness" of a trip that has a connection between trains. I think this is what you want to do.

I am not aware of any feed for MNR or LIRR that is available for public consumption regarding elevator or escalator status or locations. I would use the customer service link on mta.info (http://mta-nyc.custhelp.com/app/ask) to make this suggestion. I am sure you are aware of the http://web.mta.info/mta/eles.html and if you are in dire need, scraping the tables can be done. Not ideal but  available.

[Christine]

Ok, thanks John and Patrick. I need to revist this when I'm not so tired. ;)

Regarding the escalator/elevator status, scraping the site is fine. I see the LIRR and Metro North, but didn't see anything about Staten Island, which also has a few accessible stations. It doesn't seem to be included here:

http://advisory.mtanyct.info/eedevwebsvc/allequipments.aspx

and I see this page:

http://advisory.mtanyct.info/EEoutage/Default.aspx

where Staten Island is available as a choice, but no stations appear in the second drop-down list. Is there any information out there about Staten Island stations elevator/escalator status?

Thanks!

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[John L]

I cannot find a SIRTOA escalator ststus either.

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[John Larsen]

Although I could not find the tariff for LIRR online anywhere, it is confirmed that when an off peak train connects to what would be a peak train, it is considered off peak as described.

Be reminded however, that peak fares apply for arrival to or departure from stations within zones 1 and 3. The fare from and to zones exclusively within zones 4 through 14 are the same for a peak and off peak train, and are the off - peak fare.

So this means travel from Hicksville to Montauk is the off peak fare at all times. Floral Park to Gibson, peak fares may apply because you must transfer at a station within zone 3 (via).

Hope this helps