LIRR and MNR fares

[David Turner]

I am confused by the LIRR and MNR fare systems.

For LIRR, I am looking at
http://mta.info/lirr/about/TicketInfo/Fares2011.htm

It says that for a trip from Zone 14 to Zone 14, the price is $2.75 peak
one-way. This makes a lot of sense if you're going from Montauk to
Westhampton, both on the Montauk line. But if you're going from Montauk
to Greenport (on the Greenport line), does it really cost only $2.25?
What if you buy a Zone 14 but get off in Bethpage (Zone 7, should cost
$13.50)?

Is the rule in fact that each ticket is only good for a trip in one
direction?

Also, the page mentions, in its discussion of peak fares, "western
terminals" -- does that mean Penn Station and Atlantic Ave? Or
Jamaica?

For MNR, I can't figure out what the fares are for trips that neither
originate nor terminate at GCT/Harlem 125th St. What does it cost to go
from Branchville to Wilton, or from Wilton to Fairfield, or from Wilton
to Scarsdale? Am I just missing a chart somewhere?

[David Brenner]

For LIRR, as you surmised each ticket is for good for 1 trip in 1
direction. If a ticket is purchased as an off-peak trip and used
during peak times
the difference from the off-peak price and the higher peak price will
be collected on the train.

On Jun 28, 1:50 pm, David Turner <nova...@novalis.org> wrote:
> I am confused by the LIRR and MNR fare systems.
>

> For LIRR, I am looking athttp://mta.info/lirr/about/TicketInfo/Fares2011.htm

[David Turner]

Just to be clear, does that apply even from Far Rockaway to West
Hempstead, where the transfer is in the same zone as the origin and
destination?

[David]

That is my understanding. I will research it some more tomorrow and
post a follow up if any further clarification is needed.

[Sunny]

MNR has no public fare chart. There fare structure is similar to the
LIRR, but you have to query the fare finder to get the values.

"via" tickets are sold when transferring to go the opposite direction
in a different zone (LIRR) or at GCT/125 (MNR). There used to be a
chart for LIRR via fares online a couple of fare increases ago, but I
think it's been taken offline.

"Western Terminals" means Penn, Atlantic Terminal, Hunterspoint Ave,
Long Island City, Woodside, and every other station in Zone 1. Peak
fares are also charged to/from Zone 3 (but they are different than
Zone 1 peak fares)

[David Turner]

I see an old page about LIRR "via" fares. And, if I phone the MTA LIRR
info line and ask about fares, I do get lower via fares than the sum of
the one-way fares between my random test station pairs of Babylon,
Ronkonkoma and Montauk, Greenport. Interestingly, the via fares depend
on where you transfer (Jamaica vs Hicksville).

Thanks for letting me know about this -- I assume the MTA must have a
complete fare chart somewhere that they can dig up for us -- whatever is
driving the IVR might be a good place to start looking.

[John L]

You may wish you never asked  >.<

Fares are straight forward when going in one direction, on the same line.  When you add interline travel in different directions, you are really buying two tickets, sometimes.

Each station has a valid from / to station and fare calculations are done by zone,  of which stations are grouped in. Via's also have valid station pairings.

The actual fare is some formula that figures out the cost per mile to run train service. The one way peak is this base value and every other fare is some percentage derivative based on that.

So what does this all mean?  Lots and lots of data!

Metro North has one via and that is Yankees E153rd Street. LIRR has many more than that.

For example,  Huntington to Oyster Bay is $5.50. The purchase of two tickets Huntington to Mineola, then Mineola to Oyster Bay totals $7.50! Same for Stamford to Yankees,  $12.50 and $19.75!

There's no formula, just lots of database table data and optimized queries.

[David Turner]

Would you be willing to share those database tables?

[John L]

I would be more willing to get a web service for point to point fares out there.  That way no huge data updates would be required.

This is being discussed and I do understand the frustration of not having it.

[David Turner]

I'm not a huge fan of the web service approach, because I'm doing my own
trip planning with OpenTripPlanner, and I want to compute my own fares.
I've already written code to handle the subways and buses (except the
b61/62). Also, if I had the raw data, I would probably try to convert
it to GTFS so everyone could use it. I'm not sure I would succeed, but
it would be worth a try.

[John L]

Been there, but I think there may be a middle ground. I will post after 7/10 (on vacation). It will be a huge data set but it may get around certain intellectual property issues.

[John Larsen]

Sunny, the following link has a fare table, samples only from/to Penn
under the Farse Table PDF link

www.mta.info/lirr/about/TicketInfo/

[David Turner]

Hi John,

Any word on this?

Thanks.