Fwd: Interactions with the E3 Machine Shop

[Rachel Northey]

Interesting, I wonder where this came from if Fieguth didn't have anything to do with it. 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Systems Design Chair <syde...@uwaterloo.ca>
Date: Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: Interactions with the E3 Machine Shop
To: Rachel Northey <rachel....@uwaterloo.ca>

Hello Rachel,

Thank you for keeping me informed.  I have not yet met with the dean, so this refund is not in any way due to my influence.

I am certainly happy, for your sake, that you were offered the refund, but will still follow up with the dean and finance people to have a clearer policy in place for future students.

P. Fieguth
Systems Design Engineering
University of Waterloo

On 4/4/2013 5:22 PM, Rachel Northey wrote:

Hello, 

Thank you for looking into this. I just wanted to share with you the latest update. We had gone to the shop to give a gift to the gentleman that had given us some helpful advice in our work. When we did that we got told that some of our costs would be refunded, this seemed strange to us. I have attached a copy of the invoice to this email. I'm not sure if it will be useful but I thought you should know. 

Thank you, 

Rachel

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 5:34 PM, Paul Fieguth <pfie...@uwaterloo.ca> wrote:

Hello Mihika, Rachel, Suhail,

Thank you for your email.

Your email listed a number of issues to think about.  I have already noted the question of different rates for teams vs. projects, and will be raising that matter with the dean.

In terms of paying for the machine shop, unfortunately the university finances work (or don't work ...) is rather restrictive.  There are similar issues in other faculties (for example, trying to purchase things with cash from Chem Stores).

Your case is a bit unique, in that most prototypes are built directly by students, and it is really quite rare (as far as I know) that the machine shop is involved.  It is also my preference, in general, that prototypes be student-built, however I do recognize that there are circumstances where that may not work.

In terms of managing costs, this is definitely an important issue, and one which Prof. Gorbet has raised with me.  There aren't any easy answers here, however some sort of subsidy might make sense, and will need to be investigated.

Sorry that I don't have clearer answers for you.  I will, however, be raising the issue with the dean and will see what progress I can make.

P. Fieguth


Paul Fieguth
Systems Design Engineering
University of Waterloo

On 3/28/2013 9:53 AM, mkas...@uwaterloo.ca wrote:

Dear Dr. Fieguth and Dr. Gorbet,

This email is regarding our fourth year design project. We are the "Mrs
Furniture" team. We recently had interactions with the machine shop in E3
to help build our final prototype as they had the tools and machines
needed to accurately create our design, where the student shop in E5 could
not teach us how to accurately build our project. Specifically, we needed
help with cutting leg pieces and drilling holes into the body and leg
pieces. We had approval to do this from Dr. Gorbet, but when it came to
completion we had some troubles.

A summary of our complaints regarding our E3 machine shop experience include:
1.       Work contracted was not completed on time or at the level/quality
expected. We needed the work done by Friday, March 8, 2013 so that we
could complete the rest of the prototype over the weekend and have it
ready for the March Break Open House on Tuesday, March 12, 2013. We had an
understanding that all of the leg pieces would be cut and the holes would
be drilled but it was not completed in time or at the level/quality as
agreed (see below for more details); and
2.       Rates charged for poorly completed job was not discounted. We
understand that students who are members of Faculty sponsored teams (e.g.
solar car) get a discount on the cost per hour of work at $15 per hour,
whereas students who are not part of a Faculty sponsored team have to pay
$25.

In terms of the cost our understanding from the people in the shop,
specifically Rick Forgett, is that the cost for Faculty sponsored teams is
supplemented by the dean. It seems rather unfair students working on 4th
year projects that are related to Faculty sponsored teams (that also have
industry sponsors) may receive the supplemented machine shop rate while
students working on projects without any sponsorship are not given the
same financial break. We understand that teams may opt to take their
projects off campus and are in a way are promoting the university, but 4th
year design projects also get promoted to the general public through
outreach and symposium days. For example, not only did our design project
(Mrs. Furniture) win the "People's Choice Award" at the all-day SYDE
Design Symposium, but we also participated in the March Break Open House
as one of SYDE's project displays in E5. We understand that other
departments do have some funds to help offset student project costs. While
we were fortunate to win the "People's Choice Award" and its unexpected
cash prize, future SYDE design project teams may not be so fortunate - and
it is not a wise project budgeting strategy to hope for cash prizes to
offset overcharges by the E3 Machine Shop.

When it came to paying for our project there was some challenges, the shop
likes having an account to put the charges through rather than on a
WatCard but the SYDE department's Administrative Assistant, Colleen
Richardson, was not willing to help us with this because they cannot
accept cash to deposit into the department account. This became part of
the challenge when attempting to pay for the work that was done.  In
future it would be appreciated if there was some support from the
department on tasks such as this so that we could put it through an
account.

While we realize that there may be little that can be done by SYDE to help
our E3 Machine Shop cost situation, we would appreciate it if steps were
taken to help prevent future SYDE students from having similar negative
experiences.

Our questions to you, Dr. Fieguth:
If the dean isn't willing to supplement all student projects would the
SYDE Department be willing to provide some supplemental fees to help bring
UW machine shop rates down to a comparable level?
Is there a way that the SYDE Department can help improve the student
design project experience(s) by providing a more convenient way for
students to work with the E3 Machine Shop, and to help with rectifying
project cost disagreements?

Respectfully,
Mihika Kashyap (20307107)
Rachel Northey (20289325)
Suhaila Baheyeldin (203072333)

--
Rachel Northey

4B Systems Design Engineering
University of Waterloo

--
Rachel Northey

4B Systems Design Engineering
University of Waterloo