6 The Book
10 views
Skip to first unread message
Mr. Willhoit
Feb 29, 2008, 9:48:48 AM2/29/08
to Mr. Willhoit's English Classes
Why does Orwell include detailed passages from Goldstein's Book?
Courtney Anderson
Mar 4, 2008, 3:05:38 PM3/4/08
to Mr. Willhoit's English Classes
Orwell includes Goldstein's book because it gives the reader a
understanding of the party and of their slogans(or Orwell just wanted
to look smart). It also lets us see who Goldstein actually is.
Comrades are told to believe that Goldstein is actually the bad guy,
the person who went behind his countries back, but after reading
Goldstein's book you understand a little better that even though the
party "hates" Goldstein that they are still going by his ideas. If
they actually go by those three slogans and that is what the slogans
actually mean then I do not think that the party is that stupid. If
you think about what Goldstein put for IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH " Even
after enormous upheavals and seemingly irrevocable changes, the same
pattern has always reasserted itself." He makes perfect since. Either
the party told Goldstein to write the three slogans or Goldstein just
took those three slogans and analyzed them. Those three slogans are
probably one of the main things in the book and the reader has to
understand them to get the whole perspective of the book.
ivoge...@abv.bg
Mar 4, 2008, 7:50:23 PM3/4/08
to Mr. Willhoit's English Classes
Orwell provides little detailed passages about Goldstein's book
because of the hatred towaard goldstein. At first Goldstein was
illustrated as a bad guy and everyone from the party hates him and
when they showed him on the screen even winston was shouting hate
words toward Goldstein even though he agreed with him. In the passages
the book explains Goldtein as not a bad person and that the party is
following his ideas. Everyone hates Golstein even though they are his
ideas and that he is not a bad guy, the party just makes him look like
one.
Jessica Christensen
Mar 5, 2008, 12:14:28 AM3/5/08
to Mr. Willhoit's English Classes
I agree with Courtney. Orwell includes the book so that we can learn
more about Oceana and what goes on behind the Party. We also learn a
little more about the other countries. We find out that they also have
something like Ingsoc and the governments are a lot alike. There is a
lot to learn from Goldstein's book. Just the perspective of the
different ideas in Goldstein's book is amazing. Orwell wrote way
beyond his years and knew way more about society than most people
could even imagine. I think we can learn from Goldstein's book because
a lot of the things in his book could be compared to society today. We
do have a low, middle, and high class. Our society is corrupt in many
ways, such as athletes getting so much money when an honest working
person gets less than the national standard of living. We look up to
the high class. We look up to the celebrities and the athletes.We want
everything the high class wants. The sad thing is that most people
would rather look up the the celebrities and the athletes instead of
looking up to the people that really make a difference. The people who
want to help the world and want to get rid of poverty and sickness.
Those are the people that should be looked up to. The only thing
different is that we can sometimes make that happen for ourselves. A
lot of people do not care for education, just like the Proles, only
the Proles have no choice, their government wont let them be educated.
Our government wants us to be educated so that we can build better
lives for ourselves.
more about Oceana and what goes on behind the Party. We also learn a
little more about the other countries. We find out that they also have
something like Ingsoc and the governments are a lot alike. There is a
lot to learn from Goldstein's book. Just the perspective of the
different ideas in Goldstein's book is amazing. Orwell wrote way
beyond his years and knew way more about society than most people
could even imagine. I think we can learn from Goldstein's book because
a lot of the things in his book could be compared to society today. We
do have a low, middle, and high class. Our society is corrupt in many
ways, such as athletes getting so much money when an honest working
person gets less than the national standard of living. We look up to
the high class. We look up to the celebrities and the athletes.We want
everything the high class wants. The sad thing is that most people
would rather look up the the celebrities and the athletes instead of
looking up to the people that really make a difference. The people who
want to help the world and want to get rid of poverty and sickness.
Those are the people that should be looked up to. The only thing
different is that we can sometimes make that happen for ourselves. A
lot of people do not care for education, just like the Proles, only
the Proles have no choice, their government wont let them be educated.
Our government wants us to be educated so that we can build better
lives for ourselves.
Sammi
Mar 5, 2008, 12:34:45 AM3/5/08
to Mr. Willhoit's English Classes
I really like Courtney's take on this idea about learning more about
Goldstein and how he is not such a bad guy. When I first began
reading the book, I thought it was added in there for a little history
on how the three ssuperstates became how thy are today and I still
believe that, but I like how Courtney thought of it. It definitely
puts a different twist on how I concieve Goldstein now. I believe
that maybe Goldstein was possibly a first governor or leader of
Oceania and then was voted out of office and Big Brother was mad at
him for it and just changed history like he always does and created an
enemy that he could put on the telescreen and the citizens would hate
Goldstein and love BB.
Goldstein and how he is not such a bad guy. When I first began
reading the book, I thought it was added in there for a little history
on how the three ssuperstates became how thy are today and I still
believe that, but I like how Courtney thought of it. It definitely
puts a different twist on how I concieve Goldstein now. I believe
that maybe Goldstein was possibly a first governor or leader of
Oceania and then was voted out of office and Big Brother was mad at
him for it and just changed history like he always does and created an
enemy that he could put on the telescreen and the citizens would hate
Goldstein and love BB.
Stu Warpinski
Mar 5, 2008, 10:43:44 AM3/5/08
to Mr. Willhoit's English Classes
Yes, I agree that the reason Orwell included this doctrine was to show
how the world came to be as it is today and also to show who Goldstein
is. The book tells readers how the party came into control and the
propaganda it uses to influence and control the people under it. It
goes further to show how war is necessary for the welfare of these
three great powers. Now that they have become independent, they no
longer need help from other countries and wage war to keep the
uninformed people occupied with a cause like war to prevent anarchy.
Now, however it seems that anarchy is almost completely out of the
question because the thought police have the population under close
supervision. If there is any hope, it lies with the proles.
how the world came to be as it is today and also to show who Goldstein
is. The book tells readers how the party came into control and the
propaganda it uses to influence and control the people under it. It
goes further to show how war is necessary for the welfare of these
three great powers. Now that they have become independent, they no
longer need help from other countries and wage war to keep the
uninformed people occupied with a cause like war to prevent anarchy.
Now, however it seems that anarchy is almost completely out of the
question because the thought police have the population under close
supervision. If there is any hope, it lies with the proles.
Tecya Peterson
Mar 5, 2008, 11:43:08 AM3/5/08
to Mr. Willhoit's English Classes
> Why does Orwell include detailed passages from Goldstein's Book?I agree with Courtney that Orwell includes detailed passages from Goldstein's Book because it gives the readers understanding of how the party acts and explain why they have certain slogans. At this part of the book, the readers need to know more information and history of Oceania.
Orwell put detailed passages in the book so that it reveals
information so that everything is not so vague anymore. The main
point of the passages is to make the readers not think of Goldstein as
such a bad guy. I think that Goldstein is the head person of Big
Brother and started the revolt against the party system. I think
Goldstein was once in office and got kicked out when the new
revolution took over. Goldstein then became angry and started the
party in rebellion.
Orwell put detailed passages in the book so that it reveals
information so that everything is not so vague anymore. The main
point of the passages is to make the readers not think of Goldstein as
such a bad guy. I think that Goldstein is the head person of Big
Brother and started the revolt against the party system. I think
Goldstein was once in office and got kicked out when the new
revolution took over. Goldstein then became angry and started the
party in rebellion.
Caytee Becker
Mar 5, 2008, 10:19:21 PM3/5/08
to Mr. Willhoit's English Classes
The detailed passages from Goldstein's book were included to help
inform the reader about what exactly the Party is. Orwell includes
these passages from the book to help the reader understand the slogans
and head titles of the book. The book explains the meaning of the
slogans that were stated in the beginning of the book 1984: WAR IS
PEACE, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH, and FREEDON IS SLAVERY. These three
slogans are a ain part of 1984. In order to figure out what each of
these mean, the reader has to understand and read 1984 to see the
point of it. In every book, there is a main point, a message.
inform the reader about what exactly the Party is. Orwell includes
these passages from the book to help the reader understand the slogans
and head titles of the book. The book explains the meaning of the
slogans that were stated in the beginning of the book 1984: WAR IS
PEACE, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH, and FREEDON IS SLAVERY. These three
slogans are a ain part of 1984. In order to figure out what each of
these mean, the reader has to understand and read 1984 to see the
point of it. In every book, there is a main point, a message.
Kimmy Monkemeyer
Mar 6, 2008, 10:25:48 AM3/6/08
to Mr. Willhoit's English Classes
I think that Orwell included detailed passages from Goldstein's Book
because he wanted to give us, the readers, insight to how the party
really works. While reading 1984, we get a general idea, but still
lack specific detail. In Goldstein's Book the three slogans are
discussed and analyzed in great detail. This helps us to better
understand what each slogan really entails. The book tells the
history of the party's rise to power, explains the real purposes of
the war and why it will never end because there is nothing to fight
over and each super-state is equally matched. Explains about how the
government has complete control of the people.
because he wanted to give us, the readers, insight to how the party
really works. While reading 1984, we get a general idea, but still
lack specific detail. In Goldstein's Book the three slogans are
discussed and analyzed in great detail. This helps us to better
understand what each slogan really entails. The book tells the
history of the party's rise to power, explains the real purposes of
the war and why it will never end because there is nothing to fight
over and each super-state is equally matched. Explains about how the
government has complete control of the people.
Julie Champagne
Mar 6, 2008, 3:14:06 PM3/6/08
to Mr. Willhoit's English Classes
We learn while we read "The Book" who really Goldstein is and why they
actually are fighting against the Party. If Winston and Julia want to
help, they have to know about everything that happened in the past and
how it became the world that they live in NOW (maybe to make them more
angry about how they live now and fight more to return to the "normal"
life). I was really interested in the explanation of the slogans,
where they are from and how Orwell explained it because I did not
understand them the same way. At first it did not even make any sense.
In the beginning of the book, we thought that Goldstein was the bad
guy but now that we read some of the passages of "The Book" we
understand that Goldstein is actually the savior of the world where
they live in, or at least tries by giving some ideas and by starting a
revolution against the Party. He knows about the past society and that
is why the Party hates him so much, though they steal his ideas.
juanita...@hotmail.com
Mar 7, 2008, 1:53:31 AM3/7/08
to Mr. Willhoit's English Classes
Goldstein explains that the control of history is a central tool of
the Party, also we see in the book that when Winston read Goldstein's
The Theory (given to him by O'Brien).with chapter titles taken from
party slogans such as "War is peace" and "Ignorance is strength" they
show a theory of social classes throughout recent history: High class,
Middle class, and Low Class that's means in the book...the Inner
Party, the Outer Party, and the Proles. also Goldstein writes that
"the war never advances significantly, as no two allied nations can
defeat the third". The war is simply a fact of life that enables the
ruling powers to keep the masses ignorant of life in other places.
I agree with Jessi that Orwell includes the book Goldstein beacuse we
can learnand what's goes behind the Party and we can see different
perpectives of ideas in Goldstein's book. also I think the same as
jessi about the author of this book that we can learn from Goldstein's
people could even knew,But also he can situated in the present, past
and future at the same time. :]
the Party, also we see in the book that when Winston read Goldstein's
The Theory (given to him by O'Brien).with chapter titles taken from
party slogans such as "War is peace" and "Ignorance is strength" they
show a theory of social classes throughout recent history: High class,
Middle class, and Low Class that's means in the book...the Inner
Party, the Outer Party, and the Proles. also Goldstein writes that
"the war never advances significantly, as no two allied nations can
defeat the third". The war is simply a fact of life that enables the
ruling powers to keep the masses ignorant of life in other places.
I agree with Jessi that Orwell includes the book Goldstein beacuse we
can learnand what's goes behind the Party and we can see different
perpectives of ideas in Goldstein's book. also I think the same as
jessi about the author of this book that we can learn from Goldstein's
book because a lot of the things in his book could be compared to
society today because he not only knew more about society than most
people could even knew,But also he can situated in the present, past
and future at the same time. :]
Brittany Walker
Mar 7, 2008, 11:35:55 AM3/7/08
to Mr. Willhoit's English Classes
George Orwell includes the book to show the reader that Goldstein just
wants people to understand his theories of the party. He is not a bad
man at all, he just has very strong political views. It also gives us
a better understanding of the three slogans that were previously
stated in the older chapters. We learn about why the countries are at
war with eachother and where each of them stands politically. It
explains different slogans and messages that the party is trying to
enforce.
wants people to understand his theories of the party. He is not a bad
man at all, he just has very strong political views. It also gives us
a better understanding of the three slogans that were previously
stated in the older chapters. We learn about why the countries are at
war with eachother and where each of them stands politically. It
explains different slogans and messages that the party is trying to
enforce.
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages